Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

[bls]

Quote: Originally Posted by JerseySuave4

i gotta admit, after this blog i might be coming back on board. It seems that with the logic being improved, i might actually be able to play this game past 2 weeks. Those bashing this video, they put it on a lower level to show you the logic behind the blocking. What would be the point trying to show you the logic behind who is supposed to block who if they have the guys miss the blocks? Think of this like a coach in practice explaining the play to his team. I know from coaching that a lot of times we walk through things step by step so the guys can see who they are supposed to block, who they need to look for coming off double teams. When the game is on a higher difficulty things wont just run perfect like that or else running would be unstoppable.

But most people that play the game User Vs User don't play the game on the rookie level so how is this beneficial to look at? They need to show the logic behind how the OL miss blocks to show if it's still represented the right way. I don't want my OL to miss blocks because there running around in circles. I want them to miss blocks because they were beat based on position, speed and strength.

If I'm playing the game on a higher difficulty and I see my OL running around in circles I'm just gonna think the blocking is the same ole same ole, how is that improved???

[s38s38s]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I understand that the vids are being played on Rookie, but what does that actually mean? So you are saying that because the game setting is on Rookie, that it is perfectly understandable for the defense to react slowly, lack awareness, and show lack of fundamentals. Sounds plausible... except, that the offense is also on Rookie... so... shouldn't the line react slowly, lack awareness, and show a lack of fundamentals?

Nice try but the sole purpose of the "Rookie" difficulty is to make it easier for the user. Simply put the sliders are in the user's favor and severely handi-cap the CPU A.I.. If you want the sliders even where both sides react equally I suggest you request a vid done on All-Pro.

[s38s38s]

Quote: Originally Posted by bls

But most people that play the game User Vs User don't play the game on the rookie level so how is this beneficial to look at? They need to show the logic behind how the OL miss blocks to show if it's still represented the right way. I don't want my OL to miss blocks because there running around in circles. I want them to miss blocks because they were beat based on position, speed and strength. If I'm playing the game on a higher difficulty and I see my OL running around in circles I'm just gonna think the blocking is the same ole same ole, how is that improved???

Damn, you guys criticize every little thing. If the purpose of a video is to illistrated the new concepts behind blocking why do it on a higher difficulty where it may take more plays (due to better defensive play) to get the blocks right when you could just do it on rookie and be done in one shot? This isn't a user vs user vid it shows a concept thats all. If you want user vs user download the demos play them then complain.

They don't have to do these blogs, or show us anything. People wonder why there's no interaction when all the majority of what people do is complain about nit-picky stuff. "Yeah they gave us a vid, but put it on rookie, wtf EA?" Be happy you have a damn blog and vids to show progress from last years game. Be glad that even though the blogs may spawn a million questions, they answer a million more. Guys around here refuse to take things for what they're worth and continue to dig, looking for something anything to complain about. So there's still suction blocking big deal it will probably always be around. It's been in every football game I've ever played. Just be happy that the game is improving and that they are listening to the consumer's complaints. Instead of finding ways to be-little changes we all asked for.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I understand that the vids are being played on Rookie, but what does that actually mean? So you are saying that because the game setting is on Rookie, that it is perfectly understandable for the defense to react slowly, lack awareness, and show lack of fundamentals. Sounds plausible... except, that the offense is also on Rookie... so... shouldn't the line react slowly, lack awareness, and show a lack of fundamentals?

No... on rookie difficulty the computer players react slowly, lack awareness, and lack fundamentals, because the whole point is for the game to be easier for the player.

Quote:

I'm not saying that there is definitely something wrong with the defense on higher difficulty levels, but to say "oh it's on Rookie, so anything and everything goes" just doesn't make sense to me.

That's because you're thinking of difficulty setting as an offense vs. defense difficulty, rather than a difficulty for the user.

Quote:

This goes to a larger issue that I have with sports games in general. There shouldn't be 4 different difficulty levels. If it's supposed to be a sim game, then why would you need different difficulty levels? If there is one "normal" mode where things happen as they should, why do I care about a rookie, pro, all pro, all star level?

Except that some people aren't as good as others at sports games. Difficulty levels exist to make the game easier or harder based on the experience you, as a user, want.

Quote:

Now all sports games (that I have played anyway, I haven't played every single one) have difficulty levels so Madden isn't alone in this, but I still can't help but think that there is something inherently wrong with the way that Madden programs difficulty. Difficulty should be based on sliders. If you are not that advanced, you should be able to lower the ratings of the team you are playing against across the board to make it more challenging. But you should never have players play fundamentally wrong in order to make the game easier. Maybe this stems from the lack of confidence I have in Tiburon anyway, but when I see something like this, I can't help but wonder what else is fundamentally wrong with the game, that is just being masked by them exaggerating one aspect of the game to compensate for another. The evidence that many ratings in Madden mean nothing is also substantial, so maybe this is a byproduct of that. But I digress.

Sliders are for fine tuning. As it stands, however, the difficulty setting adjusts the sliders and vica virca. Yes, you can adjust sliders independently, but if you go too far one direction or another with them, you change the difficulty (speaking of M10 here).

I used to do a lot of slider work... testing and coming up with realistic sliders. The way it used to work was that the difficulty setting essentially effected the frequency of AI updates, and also was a modifier to CPU player attributes. At rookie, the CPU would update it's AI very slowly, and the players would all have attribute penalties. At All Madden, the AI would update frequently, and the CPU players would have substantial attribute bonuses.

Pro and All Pro had no penalties or bonuses, but the All Pro AI Updates were more frequent (personally, I've always wanted something between all-pro and all madden... more AI updates, no attribute bonus).

This isn't technical, it's observation. I could be wrong in my interpretation of what I've seen, but that's what I suspect. AI Updates--- to explain, AI in most games "updates" at regular intervals. Usually several times per second. This is when the AI looks at essentially a screenshot and decides how to proceed based on the existing circumstances. Faster AI updates means the CPU reacts more quickly. AI doesn't "think" in real time the way we do, it has to constantly reevaluate what it's looking at and respond to circumstances at intervals.

So what you see with the slow reaction time at rookie is the computer responding to it's last AI update. When it updates again, the AI will react to the new circumstances.

The sliders, on the other hand, give direct attribute bonuses and penalties to specific areas of the game. Raising QB Accuracy for the CPU makes all CPU QBs play as though their Throwing Accuracy ratings were higher.

Thus, having difficulty levels AND sliders makes me better able to fine tune my game the way I want it.

Quote:

Not going to go off on a long diatribe of Tiburon's abilities. I just think that Madden, and any other sports game that thinks of itself as a sim, should have one difficulty. The "real" difficulty. I know that trying to make your game accessible to the novice in order to increase sales is important, but I just think that the way that they are handling difficulty is apparently flawed. Not just because of the vid either. This is something that I have thought for a while. The video is just further illustration of it.

Not having difficulty settings would be terrible for new players and veteran players. Some people are simply better than others. Stick skills vary greatly, and the game is no fun if you're either too good for the game to challenge you or too bad to be competitive.

There was a game... the original MVP Baseball... where the developers elected not to have sliders. They said "if you make the game right in the first place, you don't need sliders." A lot of people agreed with them. Then the game came out, and it wasn't perfect. No game with sliders ever goes without their sliders untouched, simple as that. Every game can be improved. There is no sense in not giving us the tools to improve it.

I'm still pissed that FIFA doesn't have sliders.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

For those that think that it is acceptable how the defense is playing on Rookie is fine.

I really hope your right, but I can't see that. How many times have we seen things not done correctly in videos or trailers in the past, only to see it exist when the game releases.

Listen I hope I'am wrong and your right with the whole rookie excuse, because if that is not the case. I can see players beefing bigtime on how easy it is to run for 300yrds plus in the game, and how diffcult it is to play defense.

To me no level should perform that way, also I feel what we might witness is how ratings will not play a part in this game. It's going to be based on the fact that there is a player there to make the block and he will. We won't have the fact that this stud defender shedded his block on this weak blocker , and made the tackle, because now this is how they improved run blocking.

We shall see won't we.

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

For those that think that it is acceptable how the defense is playing on Rookie is fine. I really hope your right, but I can't see that. How many times have we seen things not done correctly in videos or trailers in the past, only to see it exist when the game releases. Listen I hope I'am wrong and your right with the whole rookie excuse, because if that is not the case. I can see players beefing bigtime on how easy it is to run for 300yrds plus in the game, and how diffcult it is to play defense. To me no level should perform that way, also I feel what we might witness is how ratings will not play a part in this game. It's going to be based on the fact that there is a player there to make the block and he will. We won't have the fact that this stud defender shedded his block on this weak blocker , and made the tackle, because now this is how they improved run blocking. We shall see won't we.

Just pop in Madden 10 and run a few plays on Rookie. Defenders will watch the ballcarrier run past them; it's that bad sometimes. Night and day different game than All Pro.

Not saying we have nothing to worry about, but we definitely should not judge the game on Rookie.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by s38s38s

Nice try but the sole purpose of the "Rookie" difficulty is to make it easier for the user. Simply put the sliders are in the user's favor and severely handi-cap the CPU A.I.. If you want the sliders even where both sides react equally I suggest you request a vid done on All-Pro.

You are explaining to me how it works. I know how it works. My point is that I don't think it should work that way.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

Just pop in Madden 10 and run a few plays on Rookie. Defenders will watch the ballcarrier run past them; it's that bad sometimes. Night and day different game than All Pro. Not saying we have nothing to worry about, but we definitely should not judge the game on Rookie.

Well hearing this sounds good. I did not enjoy Madden 10 so I did not play it much at all, and never try the rookie level.

Thank for this info, and I really hope this is the case.