Madden NFL 11 Blog: Run Blocking Improvements

[JerseySuave4]

i gotta admit, after this blog i might be coming back on board. It seems that with the logic being improved, i might actually be able to play this game past 2 weeks.

Those bashing this video, they put it on a lower level to show you the logic behind the blocking. What would be the point trying to show you the logic behind who is supposed to block who if they have the guys miss the blocks? Think of this like a coach in practice explaining the play to his team. I know from coaching that a lot of times we walk through things step by step so the guys can see who they are supposed to block, who they need to look for coming off double teams. When the game is on a higher difficulty things wont just run perfect like that or else running would be unstoppable.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by SouthernBrick

Peace of cake. Do you know how many ignorant youtubers hate madden!? A LOT lol.

Are you implying that people that make YouTube videos are ignorant, or people that don't like Madden are ignorant, or both?

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by pjv31

Couple things I noticed that no one else has mentioned. Running animations looked much improved, and the locomotion was more noticeable. You could see the players had more weight to them and weren't turning on a dime.

I did notice that and was going to mention it. Just wanted to read through the whole thread first.

I definitely see improvement in the running animations. They are smoother. It reminds of the last gen running animations somewhat. I can also see some loco evidence as the player has noticeable body lean when changing directions.

Having said that, I wouldn't say that the run animations are much improved. I'll take it compared to what we have, but it still has a long way to go in my opinion.

I see a lot of posters saying to bring back the running animations from last gen and how they were just about perfect, and I could not agree less. Comparatively the last gen animations may be better, but I never thought that they were anything to write home about either. The one significant advantage they had over current gen running animations is that they at least looked fluid, where as this gen is plagued by a weird hitching in the animations. In the blog vids, the hitching did seem to improve some too though, so kudos to them for that.

The other thing is that although the players leaned when running, and that is most welcome, there is still a floaty... weightlessness look to the way they ran. They look a little too much like feathers in the wind and that they float ever so slightly above the ground rather than firmly planted on it.

Speaking of planting, I think that they could do with more evident foot planting on change of directions. From what I have seen so far, there is really only a foot plant when executing a special move for the most part.

Overall, the improvement is there, and I am appreciative of the small favor, but it is a small favor. Still a lot of work to do in this department as far as I am concerned.

And on a side note, those player models irk me more and more everyday. That's also a factor in the running animations looking off still to me. The angles at which their limbs stay affixed and the overall shape of the models, with their off proportions, don't do the running animations any favors either. (Shudders)

[shttymcgee]

I still think that there is not enough lateral movement on the LOS between linemen. The assignments seem more realistic (except for the odd reach block by the center on the counter play,) which certainly is a step in the right direction. However, using the stretch play as an example, defenders should be getting pushed laterally to a much greater degree; there should be less standing and jostling.

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

I still think that there is not enough lateral movement on the LOS between linemen. The assignments seem more realistic (except for the odd reach block by the center on the counter play,) which certainly is a step in the right direction. However, using the stretch play as an example, defenders should be getting pushed laterally to a much greater degree; there should be less standing and jostling.

Good post, I was just about to show a video. Definitely need more lateral movement out of the OLine.



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Here are a few Colts' runs. They also pull lineman on some of their zone plays. The Vikings' runs are slightly different but you can see the OLine movement and the cutback lanes opening up.




Also, here is one of the Colts' draw plays, it's more of an outside draw play with OLinemem pulling.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

I still think that there is not enough lateral movement on the LOS between linemen. The assignments seem more realistic (except for the odd reach block by the center on the counter play,) which certainly is a step in the right direction. However, using the stretch play as an example, defenders should be getting pushed laterally to a much greater degree; there should be less standing and jostling.

They have improved the blocking logic, or at least I hope they have. What you are talking about though requires them, not only add animations, but also implement a new physics engine.

That they would need the former, is obvious. I say that they would need the latter because I remember Ian specifically in a blog last year attempting to belittle how 2K does their blocking animations and saying that they were canned and not dynamic. So I would imagine that he would not want to copy the way they did it and would want the interaction to be dynamic.

That's good and bad. Good in that having most things in a game be dynamic is usually a good thing, but bad in that I don't know if they are actually capable of pulling that off with the state of the game today and I would much rather have what 2K did, canned or not (and aren't the animations in Madden canned to a large extent anyway?) then have what we have now.

The animations in 2K may have been canned, but they were done so well that they still looked like some dynamic struggle was taking place, even if it wasn't. In Madden, the animations are not dynamic and they don't do a good job of hiding the fact that this is NOT what you see on Sunday.

[Only1LT]

I understand that the vids are being played on Rookie, but what does that actually mean?

So you are saying that because the game setting is on Rookie, that it is perfectly understandable for the defense to react slowly, lack awareness, and show lack of fundamentals. Sounds plausible... except, that the offense is also on Rookie... so... shouldn't the line react slowly, lack awareness, and show a lack of fundamentals?

I'm not saying that there is definitely something wrong with the defense on higher difficulty levels, but to say "oh it's on Rookie, so anything and everything goes" just doesn't make sense to me.

This goes to a larger issue that I have with sports games in general. There shouldn't be 4 different difficulty levels. If it's supposed to be a sim game, then why would you need different difficulty levels? If there is one "normal" mode where things happen as they should, why do I care about a rookie, pro, all pro, all star level?

Now all sports games (that I have played anyway, I haven't played every single one) have difficulty levels so Madden isn't alone in this, but I still can't help but think that there is something inherently wrong with the way that Madden programs difficulty. Difficulty should be based on sliders. If you are not that advanced, you should be able to lower the ratings of the team you are playing against across the board to make it more challenging. But you should never have players play fundamentally wrong in order to make the game easier. Maybe this stems from the lack of confidence I have in Tiburon anyway, but when I see something like this, I can't help but wonder what else is fundamentally wrong with the game, that is just being masked by them exaggerating one aspect of the game to compensate for another. The evidence that many ratings in Madden mean nothing is also substantial, so maybe this is a byproduct of that. But I digress.

Not going to go off on a long diatribe of Tiburon's abilities. I just think that Madden, and any other sports game that thinks of itself as a sim, should have one difficulty. The "real" difficulty. I know that trying to make your game accessible to the novice in order to increase sales is important, but I just think that the way that they are handling difficulty is apparently flawed. Not just because of the vid either. This is something that I have thought for a while. The video is just further illustration of it.

[Only1LT]

One more thing that I noticed in regards to the animations the blog vids. The animation of Sanchez going back to hand off the ball is, for a lack of a better word, disturbing. Look at how his legs move. It's just straight up bizarre.