Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by Super Glock

Sorry I really enjoy the write ups on OS most of the time but this is just plain silly to compare All Pro 2K8 to Madden 10. I understand not everyone is an EA fan but give me a break.

Yeah... comparing two football games. Crazy.

Good write up. I have yet to purchase Madden as I have only purchased it used off eBay since the 2005 exclusive license tragedy when the NFL and EA consorted to ruin football gaming for a half a decade (now to be what, 8 years of sticking it to the fans?).

I finally got NCAA for under $30 delivered. It got good reviews on the game sites, but many gamers are trashing it... so I don't expect a lot out of it especially since it was Madden who saw most of the gameplay updates.

What I'm seeing from the APF2K8 Gamers who bought the hype is that at first they were happy with the game as there were gameplay improvements, but the more they played it the more they disliked it as they realized that the gameplay though improved still falls short of APF2K8 (not to mention numerous bugs). Most have come back to APF2K8 and the others seem to only be playing the online franchise (primarily based on forum posts / friends list conversations).

I played the Madden demo and I was still disappointed with the game. Still no route based passing. Still issues with running mechanics (no momentum / proper footwork / direction changes). Still instant turn changes (glossed over with a pretty little circle now, but still there just different animation).

I'm pretty much on board with the poster who said the game engine needs an overhaul. It seems that there are just too many foundational issues with Madden that keep it from being a quality football game from a gameplay standpoint.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by Super Glock

Sorry I really enjoy the write ups on OS most of the time but this is just plain silly to compare All Pro 2K8 to Madden 10. I understand not everyone is an EA fan but give me a break.

I will say it's difficult to make a direct comparison of the two games. Just as I have a problem making a direct comparison of 2K5 or Madden last gen to Madden 10 next gen - you really can only make indirect comparisons. We're trying to compare games that are at a huge disadvantage because of age, technology, and in APF's case lacking the NFL license. APF was a one-year next-gen effort and didn't benefit of multiple years of feedback and tweaking. This is Madden's 5th. And I'm sure there will still be some people that will say "give [them] a break, this is Ian's first year" (despite that not being close to being true; he's been integral to Madden development for several years at least). The problem for Madden is that it hasn't put these comparisons to rest despite having every advantage imaginable.

I don't think APF trumps Madden 10 across the board as the article hints at. But there are still several key areas (OL/DL, DB/WR play & interaction, QB play) where APF performs fundamentally better. Or at the very least, those things are still debateable. And that looks really bad on Madden's part.

[Eddie1967]

Quote: Originally Posted by Super Glock

Sorry I really enjoy the write ups on OS most of the time but this is just plain silly to compare All Pro 2K8 to Madden 10. I understand not everyone is an EA fan but give me a break.

It's actually a fair comparison because the article is talking about game play. Madden is supposed to simulate the NFL, but besides the uniforms and team names, it doesn't do that very well IMHO. If APF was fully customizable I think a lot of people would be very happy because it does a better job of simulating football than madden does.

[GiantBlue76]

Great article. Couldn't agree more. All of these issues made Madden unplayable for me (again). Why go backwards in the quality of a game? As much as I love the NFL, I love the game of football more, and if the football is completely wrong, how can you enjoy it?

[grunt]

The best thing is that I have NFL 2k5 with updated rosters, APF2k8, and Madden 10. I have three football games that I can totate. My favorite is APF2k8 because I am a scheme guy. I use to love reading Autumn post regarding personel. I think APF2k8 just fit a certain type of gamer. It is almost like the game was made for me.

One thing I want people to notice when we talk about 2k8 we usually talk about x's and o's when I go on the Madden board you rarely ever hear about x's and o'x.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I will say it's difficult to make a direct comparison of the two games. Just as I have a problem making a direct comparison of 2K5 or Madden last gen to Madden 10 next gen - you really can only make indirect comparisons. We're trying to compare games that are at a huge disadvantage because of age, technology, and in APF's case lacking the NFL license. APF was a one-year next-gen effort and didn't benefit of multiple years of feedback and tweaking. This is Madden's 5th. And I'm sure there will still be some people that will say "give [them] a break, this is Ian's first year" (despite that not being close to being true; he's been integral to Madden development for several years at least). The problem for Madden is that it hasn't put these comparisons to rest despite having every advantage imaginable. I don't think APF trumps Madden 10 across the board as the article hints at. But there are still several key areas (OL/DL, DB/WR play & interaction, QB play) where APF performs fundamentally better. Or at the very least, those things are still debateable. And that looks really bad on Madden's part.

This sums it up 100% accurately ^^^

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by grunt

The best thing is that I have NFL 2k5 with updated rosters, APF2k8, and Madden 10. I have three football games that I can totate. My favorite is APF2k8 because I am a scheme guy. I use to love reading Autumn post regarding personel. I think APF2k8 just fit a certain type of gamer. It is almost like the game was made for me. One thing I want people to notice when we talk about 2k8 we usually talk about x's and o's when I go on the Madden board you rarely ever hear about x's and o'x.

I'm pretty well over APF, and I think generally we need to be more patient with learning what's in Madden and what it can do since we spent 2 years learning what APF could do, but you have a good point in your kind words about my long-winded posts.

A great feature of APF was the mystery surrounding the players. You had to play lots of games with those guys to figure out what they could and couldn't do, and that was really immersive and authentic. It was a blast to try different guys in different schemes.

I do think that Madden has provided some clear player differentiation but much of it is discernible through numerical ratings. I'm not a big fan of that, but it's not going away. I definitely miss learning that Cromwell was a great run support guy, good in zone, had marginal hands, and was slower than Marion, who was better in man and had even worse hands while being a decent tackler.

[CreatineKasey]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

I'm pretty well over APF, and I think generally we need to be more patient with learning what's in Madden and what it can do since we spent 2 years learning what APF could do, but you have a good point in your kind words about my long-winded posts. A great feature of APF was the mystery surrounding the players. You had to play lots of games with those guys to figure out what they could and couldn't do, and that was really immersive and authentic. It was a blast to try different guys in different schemes. I do think that Madden has provided some clear player differentiation but much of it is discernible through numerical ratings. I'm not a big fan of that, but it's not going away. I definitely miss learning that Cromwell was a great run support guy, good in zone, had marginal hands, and was slower than Marion, who was better in man and had even worse hands while being a decent tackler.

Madden has player character this year, which is good. It also has everything spelled out for you (as you said) which I don't like. Abilities were just so much fun to work with. People could actually have debates over similar tiered players as to who is better. In most sports games you just look at the number given... lame.