No Demo for NHL 2K10

[Flyermania]

Quote: Originally Posted by Eddie1967

Great point Baa. Some of the folks here like to constantly predict and speculate on something they no absolutely nothing about.You would have to be a fool to think that the opinions in these forums is anywhere close to having any affect on 2k's sales. The gloom and doom crowd is completely clueless except in their own minds. Just reading some of the comments in the 2k forums whether it's baseball, basketball or hockey really boggles the mind. You would think the world is coming to an end. "They won't last, this is the last year, blah blah blah.

But it's OK for you to speculate on a game you haven't actually played yet? Seems like a double standard to me.

And as far as sales, I'm afraid you are the one who doesn't have a clue. Look at hockey game sales for the past 7-8 years and let me know what you find out. Marketing does make a difference. It's common business sense...if a product does not sell enough to meet expectations and remain profitable, it will be eliminated.

[Eddie1967]

Quote: Originally Posted by Flyermania

But it's OK for you to speculate on a game you haven't actually played yet? Seems like a double standard to me. And as far as sales, I'm afraid you are the one who doesn't have a clue. Look at hockey game sales for the past 7-8 years and let me know what you find out. Marketing does make a difference. It's common business sense...if a product does not sell enough to meet expectations and remain profitable, it will be eliminated.

Your still confused I see, but that's okay. My job is too bring you out of the fog. Speculating on whether a game will fold because it doesn't put out a demo or because it's not someone's cup of tea is just plain idiotic. My point was that the demo won't make or break the game sales for many fans and just because you and your buddies go gaga over a demo release and then turn around and lose your mind when a company says they won't release one doesn't mean that other people outside of this little group feel that way. I'm actually glad it wasn't released, just so we wouldn't have the mindless ripping of the demo for not having options that you still wouldn't get in other demos. Nice try, but your still way behind. Not sure why so many are concerned about 2k sales when they have no intention of buying the game in the first place. Who cares, if no game ever puts out another demo people will still rent and/or buy the game.

No reason for bickering though, it seems most people will have one game they like this year, Mr. Flyermania.

[baa7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Flyermania

And as far as sales, I'm afraid you are the one who doesn't have a clue. Look at hockey game sales for the past 7-8 years and let me know what you find out. Marketing does make a difference. It's common business sense...if a product does not sell enough to meet expectations and remain profitable, it will be eliminated.

Marketing obviously is important and makes a difference. I'm not sure though that the question of EA sales versus 2K sales can simply be chalked up to marketing at this point. EA has been around forever. They have name recognition going for them. And they have Madden going for them, and no doubt that alone sells a ton of other games and sports games for them, as in, "Oh I see it's an EA Sports game, the company that makes Madden football. Madden is popular, so this game must be good as well!" Seriously, that's pretty much the mentality and intelligence level of the majority of the purchasing public.

Just look at MLB 2K8 and 2K9. Couldn't hold a candle to The Show and not marketed very well, yet those games outsold The Show both years on next-gen consoles. Not the same thing I know; I'm just saying there are other considerations at work here besides marketing.

[Eddie1967]

Quote: Originally Posted by baa7

Marketing obviously is important and makes a difference. I'm not sure though that the question of EA sales versus 2K sales can simply be chalked up to marketing at this point. EA has been around forever. They have name recognition going for them. And they have Madden going for them, and no doubt that alone sells a ton of other games and sports games for them, as in, "Oh I see it's an EA Sports game, the company that makes Madden football. Madden is popular, so this game must be good as well!" Seriously, that's pretty much the mentality and intelligence level of the majority of the purchasing public. Just look at MLB 2K8 and 2K9. Couldn't hold a candle to The Show and not marketed very well, yet those games outsold The Show both years on next-gen consoles. Not the same thing I know; I'm just saying there are other considerations at work here besides marketing.

Dang Baa, another great point. Seriously you hit the nail on the head. EA's longevity and the cult like Madden following make them almost untouchable in sales, no matter what 2k does.

[Flyermania]

Quote: Originally Posted by Eddie1967

Your still confused I see. Speculating on whether a game will fold because it doesn't put out a demo or because it's not someone's cup of tea is just plain idiotic. My point was that the demo won't make or break the game sales for many fans and just because you and your buddies go gaga over a demo release and then turn around and lose your mind when a company says they won't release one doesn't mean that other people outside of this little group feel that way. I'm actually glad it wasn't released, just so we wouldn't have the mindless ripping of the demo for not having options that you still wouldn't get in other demos. Nice try, but your still way behind. Not sure why so many are concerned about 2k sales when they have no intention of buying the game in the first place. Who cares, if no game ever puts out another demo people will still rent and/or buy the game.

First off, if you're not mature enough to have a discussion without trying to insult someone with another viewpoint then I suggest you put me on ignore. Or be a man and take it to a PM.

I am not confused one bit. I know how marketing works, and also realize how the lack of a demo can impact sales. All you need to do is actually read some of the posts in this thread to prove my point.

"Me and my buddies" should certainly be able to post our opinions in a discussion forum. Sorry if you can't deal with that. Perhaps the "ignore" button is your best option?

Negative feedback is not "mindless ripping". It's just an opinion that differs from yours. Ben Bishop has told me on several occasions that he values my feedback and feedback from others as it helps them make their game better. Perhaps you "are behind" as you can't seem to be able to grasp this concept.

I am concerned about 2k's sales as, unlike you, I will buy both hockey games as I feel competition is the only way either one will improve. Madden is a perfect example of how a lack of competition can impact quality.

You continually seem to have issues with anyone who doesn't look at 2k through the same rose-colored glasses that you do. I would feel remiss if I didn't once again recommend 2khockey.net for you as the 2-Kool Aid is always cold and you can bash EA freely until the cows come home.

So, in summary, I am someone who is buying both games. I am someone (unlike you) who has done this for the past 8 years now. I present the good and bad of each game so that the developers can take this mature, constructive feedback and improve the game.

[Flyermania]

Quote: Originally Posted by baa7

Marketing obviously is important and makes a difference. I'm not sure though that the question of EA sales versus 2K sales can simply be chalked up to marketing at this point. EA has been around forever. They have name recognition going for them. And they have Madden going for them, and no doubt that alone sells a ton of other games and sports games for them, as in, "Oh I see it's an EA Sports game, the company that makes Madden football. Madden is popular, so this game must be good as well!" Seriously, that's pretty much the mentality and intelligence level of the majority of the purchasing public. Just look at MLB 2K8 and 2K9. Couldn't hold a candle to The Show and not marketed very well, yet those games outsold The Show both years on next-gen consoles. Not the same thing I know; I'm just saying there are other considerations at work here besides marketing.

Valid points, but how do you suggest that 2k attracts new fans (or for that matter fans who have left their series) if they don't promote their product?

[Eddie1967]

Quote: Originally Posted by Flyermania

First off, if you're not mature enough to have a discussion without trying to insult someone with another viewpoint then I suggest you put me on ignore. Or be a man and take it to a PM. I am not confused one bit. I know how marketing works, and also realize how the lack of a demo can impact sales. All you need to do is actually read some of the posts in this thread to prove my point. "Me and my buddies" should certainly be able to post our opinions in a discussion forum. Sorry if you can't deal with that. Perhaps the "ignore" button is your best option? Negative feedback is not "mindless ripping". It's just an opinion that differs from yours. Ben Bishop has told me on several occasions that he values my feedback and feedback from others as it helps them make their game better. Perhaps you "are behind" as you can't seem to be able to grasp this concept. I am concerned about 2k's sales as, unlike you, I will buy both hockey games as I feel competition is the only way either one will improve. Madden is a perfect example of how a lack of competition can impact quality. You continually seem to have issues with anyone who doesn't look at 2k through the same rose-colored glasses that you do. I would feel remiss if I didn't once again recommend 2khockey.net for you as the 2-Kool Aid is always cold and you can bash EA freely until the cows come home. So, in summary, I am someone who is buying both games. I am someone (unlike you) who has done this for the past 8 years now. I present the good and bad of each game so that the developers can take this mature, constructive feedback and improve the game.

Huh, you said I don't have a clue and I called you clueless and YOU GET OFFENDED? Wasn't it you who replied to me and jumped on me because of my opinion. Who have I jumped on for not feeling like I do? When did I say someone couldn't post an opposing opinion. Everything you said about me is pure fantasy because It's simply not true. And please spare me the "be a man" stuff, because you have no idea what you are talking about, LOL. I have as much right to love 2k hockey as many of you have to hate it and that doesn't bother me one bit. You and a few others can't stand the fact that I like everything 2k and you can't change my opinion and I understand that it's hard to accept but that's just the way it is. If my love for 2k bothers you that much then I suggest you stop following me around.

[baa7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Flyermania

Valid points, but how do you suggest that 2k attracts new fans (or for that matter fans who have left their series) if they don't promote their product?

I wrote a while back that I feel they're in a Catch 22 and have been for a while. They obviously need to get out there and market on some level, but it appears that because their games aren't selling well, money isn't made available to market their games properly.

I guess when I'm feeling compassionate, I really do see the bind they're in. And I appreciate they're no doubt working their butts off with a very small development team, trying to get this game finished up. December 2004 really did alter sports gaming, and to the detriment of 2K. It's sad.