NBA 2K10: Exclusive First Look (Gamespot)

[ProfessaPackMan]

I don't think anybody was attacking your character at all.

Quote:

its highly unlikely that they're going to make any core changes to their gameplay any time soon. Everyone who wants them to start from scratch had better hope that Live crushes them in sales and ratings the next couple of years.

Basically.

[NINJAK2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sovartus

I comprehended the article.... wow. When people can't say something intelligent they go straight for the character don't they? At this point, this is a wait and see issue. Yes, the 2K basketball engine is tired in my opinion. Unless they can re-write the movement portion of the engine as well as the physics, I don't see how it can be improved. Maybe I just don't know enough about programming or writing the code that generates the games we play but something tells me that it isn't something they will do easily. I was very disappointed with 2K9 this year and while it was playable, I couldn't stomach playing it for an entire season. Many who know me around OS know that I wrote 3 post game tutorials for 2K basketball games 2K6, 2K7, and 2K8. I really liked the games and was a major advocate for the 2K series. I am not saying that the 2K game is garbage. It is a very solid title but I have come to expect more from the game and they have not delivered in my humble opinon. Anyone who has read my posts know that I don't just make ignorant comments that have no substance. I will say to those who are in love with the series, "I'm sorry if I am talking bad about your girlfriend but her and I had great times together for three years and this year I had to leave her alone." After asking 2k to fix the sliding and physics issues for at least two years and them not to even touch them, bothered me. "Your girl got a make over and a boob job and now many of you are blown away but she still walks walks like a caveman and chews with her mouth open at fancy resturants." The game has no true physics and it is still to easy to score in the paint. "Your girl is still as loose as ever. No matter how much you try to protect her she still lets any young kid with a nice ride, drive all day long because they can get to the goal so easy." The animations are in control of the game and it makes controling players very difficult. "Your girl loves her drama and is so animated that you can predict her every move because you have seen her do it so many times. She is as wild as ever and you can't control her. She all over the place and does whatever she wants to do without respect for your wishes." The game has a ton of coaching options and settings but the defensive AI is very lacking in the game... It is very frustrating to say the least. "Your girl has a lot of options for you and can get you into any club or establishment but she is as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to guys running game on her." I stated in another post that I have believed they are moving more toward pushing units instead of appeasing the hardcore sim style players. So yay... they sold a bunch of copies that still doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. I want a game that "plays more like real basketball" not just "look like real basketball". I'm asking for too much I guess... I try to put it in terms that some of you can understand and I hope this helps you "comprehend" what I'm saying.

If that is your stance, maybe you should stop reading 2k previews. Since you won't believe anything they say about what they are trying to do to improve the game, no amount of info they give you will be enough to convince you otherwise until you actually play it. Because of that, you will continue to have the same pessimistic attitude about every piece of information released about it up until release. That leaves us with nearly 2 months to suffer through your highly intelligent/assume the worst posts until you actually play it.

While 2k said they were adding a bunch of new animations they also said they were taking out a bunch as well, animations that may have played a major part in problems you had with 2k9. I guess it's just better to assume the worst that way you won't be dissapointed. Once your girl has done you wrong she has to work even harder to earn your trust back.

I'm not in the habit of reviewing people's previous post histories before responding to the post I have issues with so my apologies if you feel you were unjustly attacked.

[RayDog253]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sovartus

I comprehended the article.... wow. When people can't say something intelligent they go straight for the character don't they? At this point, this is a wait and see issue. Yes, the 2K basketball engine is tired in my opinion. Unless they can re-write the movement portion of the engine as well as the physics, I don't see how it can be improved. Maybe I just don't know enough about programming or writing the code that generates the games we play but something tells me that it isn't something they will do easily. I was very disappointed with 2K9 this year and while it was playable, I couldn't stomach playing it for an entire season. Many who know me around OS know that I wrote 3 post game tutorials for 2K basketball games 2K6, 2K7, and 2K8. I really liked the games and was a major advocate for the 2K series. I am not saying that the 2K game is garbage. It is a very solid title but I have come to expect more from the game and they have not delivered in my humble opinon. Anyone who has read my posts know that I don't just make ignorant comments that have no substance. I will say to those who are in love with the series, "I'm sorry if I am talking bad about your girlfriend but her and I had great times together for three years and this year I had to leave her alone." After asking 2k to fix the sliding and physics issues for at least two years and them not to even touch them, bothered me. "Your girl got a make over and a boob job and now many of you are blown away but she still walks walks like a caveman and chews with her mouth open at fancy resturants." The game has no true physics and it is still to easy to score in the paint. "Your girl is still as loose as ever. No matter how much you try to protect her she still lets any young kid with a nice ride, drive all day long because they can get to the goal so easy." The animations are in control of the game and it makes controling players very difficult. "Your girl loves her drama and is so animated that you can predict her every move because you have seen her do it so many times. She is as wild as ever and you can't control her. She all over the place and does whatever she wants to do without respect for your wishes." The game has a ton of coaching options and settings but the defensive AI is very lacking in the game... It is very frustrating to say the least. "Your girl has a lot of options for you and can get you into any club or establishment but she is as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to guys running game on her." I stated in another post that I have believed they are moving more toward pushing units instead of appeasing the hardcore sim style players. So yay... they sold a bunch of copies that still doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. I want a game that "plays more like real basketball" not just "look like real basketball". I'm asking for too much I guess... I try to put it in terms that some of you can understand and I hope this helps you "comprehend" what I'm saying.

Seriously IMO, you sound way too educated to care this much about a video game. How long did it take you to write that post, and come up with all those very detailed examples?

[DC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Illustrator76

Really glad to here about the player proportions being addressed, honestly I have been saying for years that the court was too small or the players were too big...guess someone finally "got it". Now if they can fix all those damn front rim and straight back down layup misses (this rarely if ever happens in the NBA), I will be a happy camper. Layups should be hitting back rim, glass, etc..., in real life almost every player puts the ball up too STRONG when they miss and I am tired of seeing missed layups barely clear the front rim and then come straight back down, it's just not realistic.

Where the hell have YOU been. When I first came to OS, you were one of the bigger faces. Glad to see that you are alive

[sleepytercel]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sovartus

I understand what you are saying Sleepy, trust me, I do. I could look on the bright side as say that they are trying to give us what we asked for as well but here is my problem..... This is like putting a band-aid on a band-aid. They covered up gameplay issues with animations, and now they want to cover up the issues those animations caused with more animations? Why not just fix the problem? The engine is tired and ported from original xbox and PS2. Oh well... it is what it is.

Don't buy into the Mike Wang rhetoric. Both games have ported engines. Companies can get away with saying they have new engines, but that doesn't tell an entire story. The original NBA Live on the 360 had a new graphics engine, but that game was not rewritten from scratch. The same for Madden 360. It's a marketing ploy to get people to believe that they are really providing something great and fresh, but both games failed. They had the same faults as the earlier versions and also provided the same animations as well. That tells you it's not a rebuilt engine, unless they played copy and paste.

The NBA2K engine is one of the most deepest basketball engines ever created. Other companies have tried to match it, and most have failed. Why would the rewrite it. Game programming has not changed much since the PSOne days. They still rely on strict calculations and percentages, so moving to a better system, does not mean you scrap what you got. You do not get rid of an engine that no one has yet to surpass, but you continue to evolve it. I promise you that the Live 10 engine will be no more sophisticated than 2K's. Do not get mixed up on their marketing tactic.

They know most people don't understand game programming. They know how to throw little words out there that make things sound bigger than what they are. They'll exploit that ignorance and that is where EA always shines, in their marketing. They know people know Wang used to work for 2K, but his presence isn't as huge as we think for 2K. Wang is now a marketing tool. His work with Live still has yet to be seen.

[ball4life]

Quote: Originally Posted by sleepytercel

Don't buy into the Mike Wang rhetoric. Both games have ported engines. Companies can get away with saying they have new engines, but that doesn't tell an entire story. The original NBA Live on the 360 had a new graphics engine, but that game was not rewritten from scratch. The same for Madden 360. It's a marketing ploy to get people to believe that they are really providing something great and fresh, but both games failed. They had the same faults as the earlier versions and also provided the same animations as well. That tells you it's not a rebuilt engine, unless they played copy and paste. The NBA2K engine is one of the most deepest basketball engines ever created. Other companies have tried to match it, and most have failed. Why would the rewrite it. Game programming has not changed much since the PSOne days. They still rely on strict calculations and percentages, so moving to a better system, does not mean you scrap what you got. You do not get rid of an engine that no one has yet to surpass, but you continue to evolve it. I promise you that the Live 10 engine will be no more sophisticated than 2K's. Do not get mixed up on their marketing tactic. They know most people don't understand game programming. They know how to throw little words out there that make things sound bigger than what they are. They'll exploit that ignorance and that is where EA always shines, in their marketing. They know people know Wang used to work for 2K, but his presence isn't as huge as we think for 2K. Wang is now a marketing tool. His work with Live still has yet to be seen.

actually nba lice did re-write theirs becuz if they didnt then the gameplay wud not hav benn bad or worst then the last gen systems

[sleepytercel]

Quote: Originally Posted by ball4life

actually nba lice did re-write theirs becuz if they didnt then the gameplay wud not hav benn bad or worst then the last gen systems

I am not saying that it wasn't rewritten at all, but what I am saying is that, it wasn't completely rewritten from scratch. The game still had a majority of AI logic and animations from the older games. However, you make a good point then. What good would rewriting an engine be if you create something that is much worse than it ever has been? Should EA be bragging about that? I hope the game comes out well, but honestly, I don't see it surpassing 2K10, and I would love for 2K10 to be a stellar product, as to wipe the Wang rhetoric down. This is no different than the Ben Brinkman episode that 2K was riding on, and really, the MLB2K series was still really struggling. They both really share similar stories here.

[RumbleCard]

Before I get too excited I'd like to at least know if the D-League is available to play or for use in Franchise mode. You'd think it would be if they payed for the license. However the mention of it only pertains to the "create a pro" feature. I could see where it might be implemented in a gimmick feature like that but not make it into a much more in depth aspect as franchise.

I seriously doubt that summer league is in Association. It be nice if it was. At the very least I'd like to be able to move my guys up and down from the D-League and if its playable I'd consider it a bonus.

Hopefully we get some kind of clarification on this. I'd guess if we go weeks on end without clarification we can assume that its only available via "create a pro".

Lets not forget that no one and no article said that there would be a D-League or summer league in franchise mode. We're all just assuming that because its in the 'create a pro" mode that its in association. Hopefully you guys are spot on.