Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

[Phobia]

Well being a fellow APF, NFL2k5 fan and a Madden Nazi I wanted to comment on this topic that seems to be at the forefront of the madden debate lately.

First, I believe the running animations are off. But they are not off to the degree where I am having a issue with it. I look at it and go "Damn they run like crap" but keep on playing.

Now the reason I don't care as much as I have for other things is. I have stayed with NFL2k5/APF for a couple reasons.

1. APF has a sense of playing calling being strategic. Where playing calling matters more so than who can wiggle the stick quicker left/right, hit AAAAAAA 10 times, then RT to bounce it out side alla Madden.
2. Momentum in APF is much more on the side of realism. You run horizontal to the line then decided to change and run the other way...Well there is a correct sense of slow down, change direction, speed build back up, etc etc. Which leads on a whole of much better gameplay across the board.
3. Time based passing in APF. In Madden the QB drop back has never matched the WR's routes and break points. Which leads to all kinds of issues. Throwing when ever you want and the WR will grow eyes in back his head and magically know the ball was released to make a break for it. In APF the ball would be thrown to where the route was intended to be, if the WR is not at the correct point well it is a play broken up by bad timing. Which is REALISTIC. Also makes Bump and run a real option.
4. Degrees of speed in APF. In Madden you have FULL SPEED & STOP. This is extremely frustrating. This is what has ALWAYS drove me up the wall about madden the last few years. If I got a blocker in front me and I want to follow that blocker. Well I better hope that he is faster than me or I am gonna out run him right into the defender. This SHOULD NOT happen. You should be able to control how fast you run based on how far the stick is pushed. The Sprint button needs to be removed. Go with the NHL 09 approach. Full up means Full speed and the ratings dictate the rest.
5. Momentum based blocking in APF - I am not going to go into detail into this because we all know about this.

Now why does the run animation not bother me as much. Well as you can see from the above list. These play a much bigger role in what I want out of madden.

So IAN always asks "What do you like about Madden and What do you want to see fixed?"

• I Like the direction of Pro-Tak
• I like the control over the players.
• I LOVE the graphics
• I like the animations

What do I dislike

• Time based passing being missing
• Control over the speed of your player
• Money - aka cheese being able to be effective
• PLAY CALLING MATTERING

This last one is a HUGE HUGE Deal to me and one of the reasons why LBRule I find is one of the best sources here on the Madden boards. He understands that the X's and O's on the field need to do their assignments correctly so we can call the plays we want to stop certain things. Some kid should not be able to call a streak over and over while I call a cover 3 or Cover 4 and he keep on completeing it with a RC or some other BS animation. Once in a blue moon SURE I will agree. but 4-8 times a game. Huuuuuuuhhhhhhh I will pass.

With all that said. Ian I am buying Madden 10 for the first time since 05 on PC. I throughly enjoy your input here and the direction you want to take the Madden franchise and I will support those efforts.

[totalownership]

Quote: Originally Posted by NFLHITMAN

2K8 not 2K5 set the standard for running animations. I play 2K8 still and will still see animations I have never seen. In 2K8 when you use Christian Okoye or Barry Sanders you can tell right away the difference between them. There is momentum, animations, and more that Madden 10 on next gen should have over all other things 1st.

Right on my man. Some of the running animations I've see in 2K8 to this day have amazed me. They really put their foot in that one when they cooked up 2K8. It's funny but you can tell a great game just by the memories it leaves you with.

APF 2K8: I had a run with a made up Brandon Jacobs and it was a thing of beauty. And, this is the funny part, there is NO Brandon Jacobs in the game and the game knows nothing about him YET just by putting in stats and appropriate attributes my guy was running just like him. It was an off tackle run which he broke to the outside and got some steam , leveled one dude a split second another dude try to strip/tackle him which he spinned off, but not a Emmitt Smith/Tiki Barber spin but the kind of spin you'd expect from a guy his size with the right speed to the animation and momentum and THEN trying to keep his balance and still keeping it moving up field. Never seen anything like it in any game. Madden I just have no such memories. Well let me rephrase that, only memory I have of Madden is beating a freind on N64 with a 50 yard bomb to Tiki Barber who I sent running straight up the middle of the field . Nothing, and I mean NOTHING has compared to 2K8's running game and from the looks of things nothing will compare for quite a while. I'm hoping I'm wrong, I mean I REALLY hope that I'm wrong but as it looks I don't think I will be.

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

Well my man, this all comes down to preference. You're obviously pretty passionate about the running animations and feel as though they should've taken precedence over many of the other gameplay improvements. Me (and probably most Madden players), not so much. I'm glad they went in the direction they did this year and obviously there's much room for this stuff to improve next year. I know people hate the 'next year' phrase, but all sports games should be taking steps to improve year-in and year-out. With ALL of the improvements this year (I can scratch many items off my wishlist from last year), I can deal with the locomotion, momentum, and animation issues this year. If not for all the other improvements in Madden '10, I'd be on your side. P.S. Many of the recent posts regarding running animations sort of re-enforce what Ian alluded to this time last year. June 2008, most of those within the community harped on line play, DB/WR interaction, and maybe game speed. Those items are all addressed as a result of the communities' complaints, yet now running animations are at the forefront of Madden's issues in the communities' eyes. Funny stuff.

I don't think it's about preference guy, I think it's about solid football foundation. Certain things need to be addressed before other things. I would have gladly given up a nine man tackling animation and/or a fumble button mash mini-game for some good realistic running. A 2-3 man tackling scenario would have been good enough if it meant getting some good running out the game.

I'm pretty sure that running is not just "now" getting the communities eyes. Infact....
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2038692512
and in then
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2038693822

that's just a few posts I've made about it. I know i'm not the only one.

But to be honest I, nor anyone else, shouldn't have to say anything to these guys. They have eyes, a TV and a paying job to replicate football. They should clearly see what needs to be attended to.

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I agree animations are important, but it's all subjective opinions on what should come 1st 2nd or last. Basically, animations don't jump up at me and say, oh, dealbreaker if not vastly imporved. Yes, they are number one some people's list, doesn't mean they are number 1 on everyone's list. I'm glad there is huge improvements over 09.

Animations are important on EVERYONES list dude. I guarantee if the game had the QB standing at attention during the whole play, feet never moving, never bending to get the snap, never throwing , the ball just magically comes out his chest on a pass, then the WHOLE community would be in an uproar. (Funny thing is the game would probably STILL sell lmao)

Quote: Originally Posted by Phobia

Well being a fellow APF, NFL2k5 fan and a Madden Nazi I wanted to comment on this topic that seems to be at the forefront of the madden debate lately. First, I believe the running animations are off. But they are not off to the degree where I am having a issue with it. I look at it and go "Damn they run like crap" but keep on playing. Now the reason I don't care as much as I have for other things is. I have stayed with NFL2k5/APF for a couple reasons. APF has a sense of playing calling being strategic. Where playing calling matters more so than who can wiggle the stick quicker left/right, hit AAAAAAA 10 times, then RT to bounce it out side alla Madden. Momentum in APF is much more on the side of realism. You run horizontal to the line then decided to change and run the other way...Well there is a correct sense of slow down, change direction, speed build back up, etc etc. Which leads on a whole of much better gameplay across the board. Time based passing in APF. In Madden the QB drop back has never matched the WR's routes and break points. Which leads to all kinds of issues. Throwing when ever you want and the WR will grow eyes in back his head and magically know the ball was released to make a break for it. In APF the ball would be thrown to where the route was intended to be, if the WR is not at the correct point well it is a play broken up by bad timing. Which is REALISTIC. Also makes Bump and run a real option. Degrees of speed in APF. In Madden you have FULL SPEED & STOP. This is extremely frustrating. This is what has ALWAYS drove me up the wall about madden the last few years. If I got a blocker in front me and I want to follow that blocker. Well I better hope that he is faster than me or I am gonna out run him right into the defender. This SHOULD NOT happen. You should be able to control how fast you run based on how far the stick is pushed. The Sprint button needs to be removed. Go with the NHL 09 approach. Full up means Full speed and the ratings dictate the rest. Momentum based blocking in APF - I am not going to go into detail into this because we all know about this. Now why does the run animation not bother me as much. Well as you can see from the above list. These play a much bigger role in what I want out of madden. So IAN always asks "What do you like about Madden and What do you want to see fixed?" I Like the direction of Pro-Tak I like the control over the players. I LOVE the graphics I like the animations What do I dislike Time based passing being missing Control over the speed of your player Money - aka cheese being able to be effective PLAY CALLING MATTERING This last one is a HUGE HUGE Deal to me and one of the reasons why LBRule I find is one of the best sources here on the Madden boards. He understands that the X's and O's on the field need to do their assignments correctly so we can call the plays we want to stop certain things. Some kid should not be able to call a streak over and over while I call a cover 3 or Cover 4 and he keep on completeing it with a RC or some other BS animation. Once in a blue moon SURE I will agree. but 4-8 times a game. Huuuuuuuhhhhhhh I will pass. With all that said. Ian I am buying Madden 10 for the first time since 05 on PC. I throughly enjoy your input here and the direction you want to take the Madden franchise and I will support those efforts.

Everything, EVERYTHING he just said.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by totalownership

Animations are important on EVERYONES list dude. I guarantee if the game had the QB standing at attention during the whole play, feet never moving, never bending to get the snap, never throwing , the ball just magically comes out his chest on a pass, then the WHOLE community would be in an uproar. (Funny thing is the game would probably STILL sell lmao)

Again, never said they weren't important, but where the importance is on the list is still all a guesswork.

[LAKE4742]

Since this thread is a lil off topic already (talking about APF2k8), I just want to chime in. I have recently been playing the APF2K8 demo, and I must say I'm thoroughly impressed by not only the running animations, but the entire core seems to be in much better shape.
I love the fact that when dropping back, I actually have to push UP towards the pocket (no automatic dropback and stop), to plant my feet, to make a proper pass. I feel in full control of my QB. Even the kicking game is a challenge-good thing. It feels like a skill game. That's the difference between skill vs. animation-based. It's not perfect, and 2K5 is probaly better. But, it's a much better effort than any recent Madden.

After Ian's statements yesterday, I feel that once M10 is played on Normal speed, and All-Pro setting, many of my running and gameplay worries will be over. And with all of the other adds this year, I think this actually may be the year Madden surpasses the great 2K5.....and APF2K8.

[mcloviin]

in madden 09 when the runner is going without turbo it looks as if he is a noodle with legs.

compared to using turbo..i guess EA thought the player would not use turbo

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I know people hate the 'next year' phrase, but all sports games should be taking steps to improve year-in and year-out. With ALL of the improvements this year (I can scratch many items off my wishlist from last year), I can deal with the locomotion, momentum, and animation issues this year. If not for all the other improvements in Madden '10, I'd be on your side.

I guess the problem with "next year" is that the game is so far behind what most expected when this generation of systems hit. Running animations are not something we should have to complain about in 2009.

After AI, animations are the most important thing IMO. The game is just not convincing with unrealistic movement.

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

P.S. Many of the recent posts regarding running animations sort of re-enforce what Ian alluded to this time last year. June 2008, most of those within the community harped on line play, DB/WR interaction, and maybe game speed. Those items are all addressed as a result of the communities' complaints, yet now running animations are at the forefront of Madden's issues in the communities' eyes. Funny stuff.

Except that the line interaction is still pretty bad. The DTs don't get any push. The DEs take way too long to get up field. There's no where enough mobility in engaged blocks. Outside of the limited steering and ONE real trap block I've seen, not much has changed.

And I haven't noticed much DB/WR jostling in any of the vids either.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

P.S. Many of the recent posts regarding running animations sort of re-enforce what Ian alluded to this time last year. June 2008, most of those within the community harped on line play, DB/WR interaction, and maybe game speed. Those items are all addressed as a result of the communities' complaints, yet now running animations are at the forefront of Madden's issues in the communities' eyes. Funny stuff.

While many are saying running animations, I think what's meant are the animations in general. It's sort of like the tackling that people complained about for years. Yes it's the tackling, but it's deeper than that - it's the way the players interact, not just how many people can join into a tackle for the end result. While the CB/DB interaction has been improved, DBs seem to exhibit pretty bad form, being able to backpedal nearly fully upright while keeping up with receivers that are supposedly running full speed forward. And it's difficult to see if they actually interact on the fly. The line play has been improved, but it remains to be seen how much the lack of on the fly multiple player interaction/double team blocking will hurt (if it hurts at all). Players in general seem to lack the need to plant appropriately for directional changes. QB form on passes; QB movement in the pocket. We've seen the discussions about the lack of true analog movement.

Most if not all of the things above are animation/lack of momentum issues. They're attempting to address some of the problems but it remains to be seen if it's anywhere close to the level it needs to be. I would think someone would be able to look past the gorgeous graphics and say "that doesn't really look right". That hype vid they just released has a lot more wrong with it than ball carrier animations.

[boooey]

now this is what I am talkin about! These animations look awesome! Don't tell me this doesn't look like fun!