Madden 10: Did EA Press Reset? (Joystiq)

[GTheorenHobbes]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

To be fair, don't you think we should make the determination after 10 is out. Plus, the mantra that Ian stated in February, What you see on Sunday, Ian clarified he meant not everything will be in 10. He said he meant 10 and beyond. Justified or not, I think people are putting too much expectations on Madden 10 surpassing or equaling last gen games. It will take more than one development cycle to equal or surpass last gen games.

After 5 years of next gen football, do you really think it's ok to have to wait a 6th year just to get a game that surpasses the old ps2 madden games? No wonder Tiburon can put out steaming piles of **** each year, when people's standards are as low as they are.

"Should we add more than one camera angle or in-game saves this year?"

"Nah...f$&k 'em. They'll still buy it again this year and next anyways."

[PlyrzNumber1]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I agree w/you, no one should be making any definitive determinations until they've played the game. But we're basically doing no more than what's been done the past 5-6months - commenting on the information set before us. Imo if they're going to sit back and soak up the praise for early information, then it only seems fair that they'd accept criticism of early information. As far as expectations, I think they have no one to blame but themselves imo. They were playing the hype game building expectations, instead of taking the less glorious route of trying to manage them (expectations). Imo expectations should be high - they're the only NFL game available. And they've placed themselves in the position where they will be the only one for a long time. And it hasn't been one development cycle, it's been five - it's not like they're doing some sort of MVP-like reboot; they're building on work that's been done previously. I've read some people saying '10 is "a good start" - which sounds familiar, because people were saying the same thing about '09, when Phil Frazier was supposed to bring last gen greatness and usher in a new era. It was probably said in '08 also. It seems every year someone's saying the reset button was hit and it's a new beginning. C'mon - saying people shouldn't expect Madden to equal or surpass last gen games 5yrs into next gen is having REALLY low expectations. Would we be willing to hold other developers to that same low expectation?

This sums up my frustration with the football video gaming industry right now. And I agree with you on so many of your other points. This post should be framed and referenced over and over everytime somebody comes with the "this is a new start, lets wait till the game comes out" type posts that come up dozens of times a day.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I agree w/you, no one should be making any definitive determinations until they've played the game. But we're basically doing no more than what's been done the past 5-6months - commenting on the information set before us. Imo if they're going to sit back and soak up the praise for early information, then it only seems fair that they'd accept criticism of early information. As far as expectations, I think they have no one to blame but themselves imo. They were playing the hype game building expectations, instead of taking the less glorious route of trying to manage them (expectations). Imo expectations should be high - they're the only NFL game available. And they've placed themselves in the position where they will be the only one for a long time. And it hasn't been one development cycle, it's been five - it's not like they're doing some sort of MVP-like reboot; they're building on work that's been done previously. I've read some people saying '10 is "a good start" - which sounds familiar, because people were saying the same thing about '09, when Phil Frazier was supposed to bring last gen greatness and usher in a new era. It was probably said in '08 also. It seems every year someone's saying the reset button was hit and it's a new beginning. C'mon - saying people shouldn't expect Madden to equal or surpass last gen games 5yrs into next gen is having REALLY low expectations. Would we be willing to hold other developers to that same low expectation?

I agree with some of this and some of it, I don't agree with.

I'm not sure where you are coming from that they were soaking up the praise for early information. I think there is some assumption on that part. I don't think the CD people went down to praise the Madden team.

As far as expectations are, everyone's expectations are at a different level. What works for you might not work for me. To put everyone in the same boat is a bit of a stretch. I still have 09, but haven't completed a season. It's boring as hell to play, but I keep it because my son loves to beat his old man. My expectations are better and improved game play, better defined pocket and greatly improved presentation. Those are the major factors for me. I still have 2k5 on the shelf and still dig it out.

Bottom line, I want Madden 10 to be much better and improved over Madden 09. I know other people keep the 2k series in mind and that is fine, but I don't. I'm aiming high, but not allowing myself to become disappointed if it doesn't have everything in but the kitchen sink. I refer back to what Ian said in February and most people must have missed this.

Everything you see on Sunday, will be seen in Madden. He immediately followed that up with Madden 10 and beyond.

Spank, I'm pretty sure you know by now I'm giving Ian and crew the benefit of the doubt at this stage. It seems other people don't want to do that and that is fine. I'll still have my son to have grudge matches with to justify my spending of $60.00 if that is ok with others.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I'm not sure where you are coming from that they were soaking up the praise for early information. I think there is some assumption on that part. I don't think the CD people went down to praise the Madden team.

I didn't mention the CD team at all; wasn't thinking of them. I haven't followed the game religiously over the past 5 months, but it seems there's been little effort to level people's expectations. All the "Ian's a god!", "You guys are on fire!", "I'm gonna name my firstborn after you!" threads that proliferated over the months... there seemed to be no effort to dampen people's expectations on their part. Some have been proclaiming the game will be great for months now, just based off the hype. So imo they were just soaking it up since they were here all the time. Which is why it looks like a punk move on their part if they decide they can't be here if people aren't praising every piece of information they put out. Imo it's probably not a good idea for a dev to be so intimate with the fanbase anyway, because of the possibility of misunderstandings, or disappointment expressed that could lead to hurt feelings.

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

As far as expectations are, everyone's expectations are at a different level. What works for you might not work for me. To put everyone in the same boat is a bit of a stretch. I still have 09, but haven't completed a season. It's boring as hell to play, but I keep it because my son loves to beat his old man. My expectations are better and improved game play, better defined pocket and greatly improved presentation. Those are the major factors for me. I still have 2k5 on the shelf and still dig it out.

Agreed. But whether intended or not, their community involvement approach this year increased the level of interest in this year's game and the overall expectation level. Imo it was intentional, because the general perception of the game is that it's been disappointing. I think it's that disappointment that has caused people to cite 2K5/2K8/old Maddens; the more they disappoint the more people long for alternatives. Exclusivity wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is if the games Tiburon were producing were good/great. Some like to act as if it's some huge group of disgruntled 2K fans that will never like Madden, when it's Madden fans that have become more disenchanted with the product imo.

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Bottom line, I want Madden 10 to be much better and improved over Madden 09. I know other people keep the 2k series in mind and that is fine, but I don't. I'm aiming high, but not allowing myself to become disappointed if it doesn't have everything in but the kitchen sink. I refer back to what Ian said in February and most people must have missed this. Everything you see on Sunday, will be seen in Madden. He immediately followed that up with Madden 10 and beyond. Spank, I'm pretty sure you know by now I'm giving Ian and crew the benefit of the doubt at this stage. It seems other people don't want to do that and that is fine. I'll still have my son to have grudge matches with to justify my spending of $60.00 if that is ok with others.

I've said it many times - Madden 09>08>07>06. At the very least, I would think '10 would be an improvement over '09, that's not much of an expectation at all. The problem Tiburon faces is that the game has consistently improved over it's previous version and yet many still have a sort of "meh" feeling towards the game. That's not "all 2K fans hating". There are lots of Madden (and general football fans) that are disappointed in the game too.

[JMBOO]

First off, I am just glad that the more I read from people here, the more it seems that the majority of people really do have at least some kind of expectations for the "New next gen reboot of Madden." It also seems that there are also still some who refuse to accept the fact that there has not been a good football game made for a great long while (A lot of MLB 09 communis- I mean converts if you ask me).

Basically, after watching some EXTREMELY edited footage of Madden, it all looks good to some. However, only thing that matters is when they put out the Demo so we can see what is coming.

For myself, if the receivers are finally able to catch a sidline pass. the QB is able to throw where he wants and can actually throw over people as in the real NFL, and the screen is able to be run properly, a la NCAA, then, at least it will not be a total bust. However, what I really see is another gimmick, poor implementation of it, and nothing fixed, and adding in another feature that was already in the game, taken out, and now put back in.

I hope I am wrong, I really do, however, after going to the MLB 09 Forum and reading the sycophantic slobbering over that trainwreck of a game (witch, really is just a paint job over MLB 95 or 98, I think it was. Had everything that the 09 version did, but not the graphics. Silly, silly people. Love when remakes are held up as originals.), I am not too enthused about the chances for this game. Oh well, at least, if they decide to not F up NHL 10, and NBA live 10 irons out a few of its issues and adds in a true online BAP mode, then, all is not lost.


Just remember, this is not hate, it is just what happens when a person gets tired of the same old, same old. By the way, inFAMOUS is a really sweet game for those with a PS3. Maybe the Devs should be looking at games like that, Drake's fortune, GTA IV, NHL 09 (again), Killzone 2, Bioshock, Neverwinter Nights, Little Big Planet, etc, for true inspiration on what makes a great game. I mean, tell me that any one of those games is not great, and, you will be telling yourself that the earth still revolves around the sun.


Not hate, just truth. And really, Ian did work on last years Madden, just so everyone knows, and he pumped that game up as well. Once again, not hate, just truth.

[Child Rebel]

Quote: Originally Posted by JMBOO

First off, I am just glad that the more I read from people here, the more it seems that the majority of people really do have at least some kind of expectations for the "New next gen reboot of Madden." It also seems that there are also still some who refuse to accept the fact that there has not been a good football game made for a great long while (A lot of MLB 09 communis- I mean converts if you ask me). Basically, after watching some EXTREMELY edited footage of Madden, it all looks good to some. However, only thing that matters is when they put out the Demo so we can see what is coming. For myself, if the receivers are finally able to catch a sidline pass. the QB is able to throw where he wants and can actually throw over people as in the real NFL, and the screen is able to be run properly, a la NCAA, then, at least it will not be a total bust. However, what I really see is another gimmick, poor implementation of it, and nothing fixed, and adding in another feature that was already in the game, taken out, and now put back in. I hope I am wrong, I really do, however, after going to the MLB 09 Forum and reading the sycophantic slobbering over that trainwreck of a game (witch, really is just a paint job over MLB 95 or 98, I think it was. Had everything that the 09 version did, but not the graphics. Silly, silly people. Love when remakes are held up as originals.), I am not too enthused about the chances for this game. Oh well, at least, if they decide to not F up NHL 10, and NBA live 10 irons out a few of its issues and adds in a true online BAP mode, then, all is not lost. Just remember, this is not hate, it is just what happens when a person gets tired of the same old, same old. By the way, inFAMOUS is a really sweet game for those with a PS3. Maybe the Devs should be looking at games like that, Drake's fortune, GTA IV, NHL 09 (again), Killzone 2, Bioshock, Neverwinter Nights, Little Big Planet, etc, for true inspiration on what makes a great game. I mean, tell me that any one of those games is not great, and, you will be telling yourself that the earth still revolves around the sun. Not hate, just truth. And really, Ian did work on last years Madden, just so everyone knows, and he pumped that game up as well. Once again, not hate, just truth.

Um... excuse me. What MLB game are you referring to? I believe you meant to say that MLB 2k9 was a train wreck of a game, because MLB 09 The Show is hands down the best simulation sports title on next gen consoles. Even more, the SCEA devs basically live on the forums(I don't know why people act as if it were Ian whom started the community interaction that's been going on) gathering information on how to better improve the game in every way, shape, or form, possible. From licensed team and player specific gear, batting and pitching player rituals, stadium specific presentation, to player models and anything else you can think of that you see in major league baseball. They have a forum dedicated to consumer request. If anyone has yet to see it, you should go take a look. It's a marvel to see. Although great, the game isn't perfect, and it's great to see a team of devs strive after excellence.


I do however agree with this. With so many great games coming out, it's sad to see EA struggling to release a decent football title.

[TheCreep]

Quote: Originally Posted by Child Rebel

Um... excuse me. What MLB game are you referring to? I believe you meant to say that MLB 2k9 was a train wreck of a game, because MLB 09 The Show is hands down the best simulation sports title on next gen consoles. Even more, the SCEA devs basically live on the forums(I don't know why people act as if it were Ian whom started the community interaction that's been going on) gathering information on how to better improve the game in every way, shape, or form, possible. From licensed team and player specific gear, batting and pitching player rituals, stadium specific presentation, to player models and anything else you can think of that you see in major league baseball. They have a forum dedicated to consumer request. If anyone has yet to see it, you should go take a look. It's a marvel to see. Although great, the game isn't perfect, and it's great to see a team of devs strive after excellence. I do however agree with this. With so many great games coming out, it's sad to see EA struggling to release a decent football title.

Struggling to release a good football game? See my previous post.

[TheCreep]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I didn't mention the CD team at all; wasn't thinking of them. I haven't followed the game religiously over the past 5 months, but it seems there's been little effort to level people's expectations. All the "Ian's a god!", "You guys are on fire!", "I'm gonna name my firstborn after you!" threads that proliferated over the months... there seemed to be no effort to dampen people's expectations on their part. Some have been proclaiming the game will be great for months now, just based off the hype. So imo they were just soaking it up since they were here all the time. Which is why it looks like a punk move on their part if they decide they can't be here if people aren't praising every piece of information they put out. Imo it's probably not a good idea for a dev to be so intimate with the fanbase anyway, because of the possibility of misunderstandings, or disappointment expressed that could lead to hurt feelings. Agreed. But whether intended or not, their community involvement approach this year increased the level of interest in this year's game and the overall expectation level. Imo it was intentional, because the general perception of the game is that it's been disappointing. I think it's that disappointment that has caused people to cite 2K5/2K8/old Maddens; the more they disappoint the more people long for alternatives. Exclusivity wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is if the games Tiburon were producing were good/great. Some like to act as if it's some huge group of disgruntled 2K fans that will never like Madden, when it's Madden fans that have become more disenchanted with the product imo. I've said it many times - Madden 09>08>07>06. At the very least, I would think '10 would be an improvement over '09, that's not much of an expectation at all. The problem Tiburon faces is that the game has consistently improved over it's previous version and yet many still have a sort of "meh" feeling towards the game. That's not "all 2K fans hating". There are lots of Madden (and general football fans) that are disappointed in the game too.

General perception that Madden is disappointing? Man, everyone I know loves the game. Hell, they done went nuts too, they even liked 07, and that **** was garbage.

General perception. Man, you cant go off forums, probably not even 1 percent of the whole Madden community.