Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

... Huh? I don't see the confusion in that at all. I think what I've said is pretty clear. The fact that the blow ups are happening so frequently is the issue, my statements have spoken clearly to that problem. I think weight and bracing should prevent a lot of those. You don't see them as blow ups, I do. Some others in this thread do also. We'll have to agree to disagree.

It seems that weight would be necessary to carry them forward, and the lack of weight would justify them not moving forward, so when you say they have no way and are being blown up and still moving forward, then it seems... off.

The players are clearly not bracing for impact of the tackle though, and that's leading to hits that appear more violent than they would be otherwise.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Haven't seen it. I don't have quicktime, but I may download QT and take a look.

It would be nice for everyone to be on the same page with regards to video footage, and considering the link I provided is actual gameplay footage, and not a video of tackle alley that's meant to show case the extreme hits, I think it would be well worth your time.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

I didn't say "they go down everytime" in that way. I can see some hits being brushed off, that's clear. But each time a tackle happens it looks like there is no fight from the ballcarrier. You see it differently. We must agree to disagree.

If you watch the gameplay, that's not always the case, but you're right about players not bracing for impact and that's leading to bigger hits.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

I also should point out that NM staff stated publicly back when this hit, that it was indeed a representation of in-game action and that Tackle Alley was potentially going to be part of the game (probably as a return drill/mode). Whatever tweaking they did to it I heard nothing about, and it probably came after I stopped keeping up on the game as much.

Yes, it's in game action, but it's not what the gameplay looks like. Please watch the gameplay footage so you can discuss this knowledgeably. Discussing gameplay based on a demo meant to hightlight big hits (tackle alley), instead of actual gameplay is a waste of time.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

It's not that the tackles in TA don't happen in real life, it's the frequency at which they happen in TA. But it's not just TA. People have pointed this out in all of the videos they've shown with tackling, and the recent one that was on the PSN show or whatever is just more of that. Looked cool as hell, but still the same thing.

No.. the most recent one was not on PSN. Please watch the video I posted earlier in this thread.

Here it is again. This is what we have been discussing when we say gameplay.

http://www.walsh-designs.com/bfl/ps3...s/GEDC1872.MOV

Quote:

I don't know you "from a whole in the wall" either, and because of that I wouldn't make a statement like the one you made a few pages back, because it clearly asserted a hypothetical that you might know, but you were very much mistaken

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. All I can go off is the content and tone of your responses.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

It seems that weight would be necessary to carry them forward, and the lack of weight would justify them not moving forward, so when you say they have no way and are being blown up and still moving forward, then it seems... off. The players are clearly not bracing for impact of the tackle though, and that's leading to hits that appear more violent than they would be otherwise.

That's what I was getting at. It's in another recent video I'm going to link to in a moment.

I popped in APF... one of the reasons that the action looked solid was because that fight was there. The ballcarrier really fought back and you could sense that strongly on the overwhelming majority of carries. Sure there are big hits in APF, but the balance is more heavily weighed towards the fight so it translates well to looking like real football.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

It would be nice for everyone to be on the same page with regards to video footage, and considering the link I provided is actual gameplay footage, and not a video of tackle alley that's meant to show case the extreme hits, I think it would be well worth your time. If you watch the gameplay, that's not always the case, but you're right about players not bracing for impact and that's leading to bigger hits. Yes, it's in game action, but it's not what the gameplay looks like. Please watch the gameplay footage so you can discuss this knowledgeably. Discussing gameplay based on a demo meant to hightlight big hits (tackle alley), instead of actual gameplay is a waste of time.

Well, you have to realize that it's not easy to keep up with every video that comes out. Some of these things are very new and I just hadn't had the opportunity to see it all. I have to base my opinion on what I've seen like we all do and those opinions can modify or change as new things are seen.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

No.. the most recent one was not on PSN. Please watch the video I posted earlier in this thread.

I didn't say "most" recent... there was indeed a recent video from PSN (May 6th). Here it is:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2009/...-and-euphoria/

It starts at 1:00... once again, very explosive.

There is also this one which is the full version of the promo vid posted above which I believe is very new--might've just come out over the last couple days--, not sure if you've seen it. I just watched it. Again, more explosions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpxW9kckvpM

Also pay close attention to the developers words at 3:07:

"This is the kind of stuff you see all the time in BackBreaker..."

So far, he been proven true, lol.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Here it is again. This is what we have been discussing when we say gameplay. http://www.walsh-designs.com/bfl/ps3...s/GEDC1872.MOV

I haven't got QT yet, but if that video is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iPFXjtsEew

... Then I'll say that it looks promising. I see some solid wrap tackle attempts that were broken by the ballcarrier, and I saw a stumble that was finished off pretty well. But there are some explosions, too (at :12 and :13).

We'll see what type of balance the final game has in this regard.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. All I can go off is the content and tone of your responses.

I don't think I really gave off the impression that Madden is my only point of reference...

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Well, you have to realize that it's not easy to keep up with every video that comes out. Some of these things are very new and I just hadn't had the opportunity to see it all. I have to base my opinion on what I've seen like we all do and those opinions can modify or change as new things are seen.

Understood and that makes sense, but at the same time when a link to a video has been provided, and you continue to ramble on about a previous video while ignoring the new one, well, I'm sure you can see how someone else would perceive that as you attempting to ignore evidence in order to support your argument. Based on your last post, that doesn't appear to be the case now, but the unintended consequences is that it gave the appearance of bias.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

There is also this one which is the full version of the promo vid posted above which I believe is very new--might've just come out over the last couple days--, not sure if you've seen it. I just watched it. Again, more explosions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpxW9kckvpM Also pay close attention to the developers words at 3:07: "This is the kind of stuff you see all the time in BackBreaker..." So far, he been proven true, lol.

C'mon now. His quote 'This is the kind of stuff you see all the time' is referring to all of the things that are going on, not an 'explosive tackle'. You're reaching on that one my friend.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

I haven't got QT yet, but if that video is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iPFXjtsEew ... Then I'll say that it looks promising. I see some solid wrap tackle attempts that were broken by the ballcarrier, and I saw a stumble that was finished off pretty well. But there are some explosions, too (at :12 and :13). We'll see what type of balance the final game has in this regard.

Yep, that's the video, and after watching it you have to admit the tackles in it aren't all explosive, which was your argument before. That's why I was saying Tackle Alley was meant to show case the spectacular hits. Not only that, but that video shows that a player can can continue moving forward after a hit, so there is movement after a hit, there's just no A, A, A to break the tackle like you see in NFL2K5/APF2K8 (which I absolutely abhor as it's definitely not realistic).

That video is what convinced me that there were big hits. Tackle Alley was so close up, that I wrote a lot of it off to the camera angle. There's a hit at the end of that video though, in the endzone, where the guy absolutely gets clobbered. The camera angle is zoomed out quite a bit, and you can see it. It looks like he got hit by a Mack Truck. heh

Now, if we could only get a little of that hard hitting feeling into Madden. That would rock.

[RGiles36]

Not to infringe upon you and TheWatcher's debate, but with the exception of one broken tackle animation and the gang-tacklish sequence, everything else was over the top.

[TDogg09]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Now, if we could only get a little of that hard hitting feeling into Madden. That would rock.

I agree.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

Not to infringe upon you and TheWatcher's debate, but with the exception of one broken tackle animation and the gang-tacklish sequence, everything else was over the top.

You realize there's not much more in that video right? It's looped twice. The only really big hit that I could see for sure was at the end, and it's a whopper. The rest look pretty good to me, at least of what I could see of them.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

You realize there's not much more in that video right? It's looped twice. The only really big hit that I could see for sure was at the end, and it's a whopper. The rest look pretty good to me, at least of what I could see of them.

No, I didn't realize that . SMH, give me more credit than that fella.

With the exception of what I pointed out, the other 3-5 scenes featured vicious and exaggerated (there's that word again) animations. I responded b/c prior to me watching this vid, it seemed this was your point of reference for less-over-the-top tackles animations. But in these eyes, I witnessed more of the same.

[Rocky]

The point remains that t's absolutely ridiculous to argue over a game that has shown video 3 clips...in a Madden thread.

We've seen a couple of clips designed to be "cool". We haven't seen anything substantial in terms of 11 on 11 play. Neither side has any kind of logical argument to make here.