Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

[tennesseetitans]

hmoob, there's no need to take things so personally. First you attack him personally, and then you attack him for his rebuttal. I've never seen a post by The Watcher to garner such hostility towards him (so what if he doesn't think BB is the be all end all), and he's been a part of a lot of important dialogue around here.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

You're missing the point. Falling forward is not the benchmark on how each outcome should be, lol. There is also a big difference between falling forward because you plowed through and used weight to do it, and being blown up forward, lol.

First you said they have no weight, and now it's that they are being blown up forward. I definitely can't following your line of thought. If you watch the latest video posted (I posted a link somewhere just today) you'll see that there are normal tackles. Tackle Alley was obviously done to show case the more intense hits (something I was unsure of until I saw the latest video).

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Further, there was no fight in the two-man gang tackles where he went backwards. He got hit, he went down, play over. You're telling me that a pro back goes down like that on a regular basis? The point is that the level of contact is extreme. You can attempt to do those things in other football games, but for the most part the ballcarriers reaction will not be a hard fall, being blown up every time. You cannot me tell that this isn't the case in that video. You've gotta be kidding me.

Tackle Alley doesn't equal real game footage. It was designed to show big hits, and, again, if you watch the vidoes, they don't go down every time. I even called out specific tackles from the video so we could be on the same page, but you chose to ignore them.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Try that in 2K5 or APF. You can't, and if you do the ballcarriers reaction will not be even nearly the same. There is a fight taking place especially in APF and that's pretty damn realistic. These tackles in BB look cool, but the blowing up is all extreme scenario stuff. All the stuff in the air... it's like they're part acrobats, lol.

If you hit a guy square on, front to back, then 9/10 they are going to stop in their tracks. It's all about positioning though in APF2K8. I'd have to break down the tackles on case by case basis to validate the hits in tackle alley, but they didn't seem all that outlandish to me the first couple times I have watched it.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Wow. Where have you been? I think everybody knows that I'm a MASSIVE 2K fan. If anything, I have less of a point of reference with Madden over the past 10 years than I do with any other football games that have come out in that period.

Sorry, don't know you from a hole in the wall. I have only been following APF2K8 intently, and I haven't seen you on the scene. I'll take your word on it though.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Also, I'm going to have to disagree with the notion that control has nothing to do with momentum and all of that other stuff, and that may be because we have a different definition of what that means. I know for a fact that control feel can be modified in developement which is what they've done for Madden 10. While there are plenty of new animations, a lot of things have been modified and along with that must be mods to responses times... and you'll see what I mean when you play the game this season. They've done a very good job this year.

Everything can be modified in the game, but a players momentum should be visible and that's what I was pointing out. Point I was trying to get across is that it should be visible and felt, and Madden has failed to deliver on both those fronts thus far. I get what you are saying about response times, but those response times have to be represented by appropriate animations, turn cycles, starting/finishing of movement and such, and they aren't in Madden '09.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Nothing is perfect in any game, but the advancement with Madden is there this year.

I hope so, it's the only NFL game we got.

[adembroski]

Regarding the BB video; the back is tackled 11 times. Only 2 of those end up bringing him down by means other than initial violent contact. One of THOSE times the back was airborne and the tackler caught his legs. Virtually every tackle looked like Ronnie Lott on his best day hitting Warrick Dunn.

I have yet to see a tackle in BB that would not make a SportsCenter highlight reel, THAT'S the problem.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

Regarding the BB video; the back is tackled 11 times. Only 2 of those end up bringing him down by means other than initial violent contact. One of THOSE times the back was airborne and the tackler caught his legs. Virtually every tackle looked like Ronnie Lott on his best day hitting Warrick Dunn. I have yet to see a tackle in BB that would not make a SportsCenter highlight reel, THAT'S the problem.

That's not true adembroski, you saw that new video with actual gameplay footage and it has normal tackles.

[icomb1ne]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

That's not true amber, you saw that new video with actual gameplay footage and it has normal tackles.

I think we should put off talking about BB until we get some solid gameplay videos instead of basing it off these trailers which are most likely made to look cool/extreme on purpose. I am getting tired of having to read about BB based solely on speculation of short trailers!!! As of right now, there is not enough info to talk about it as much as we have been talking about it lately.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

First you said they have no weight, and now it's that they are being blown up forward. I definitely can't following your line of thought.

... Huh?

I don't see the confusion in that at all. I think what I've said is pretty clear. The fact that the blow ups are happening so frequently is the issue, my statements have spoken clearly to that problem. I think weight and bracing should prevent a lot of those. You don't see them as blow ups, I do. Some others in this thread do also. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

If you watch the latest video posted (I posted a link somewhere just today) you'll see that there are normal tackles. Tackle Alley was obviously done to show case the more intense hits (something I was unsure of until I saw the latest video).

Haven't seen it. I don't have quicktime, but I may download QT and take a look.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Tackle Alley doesn't equal real game footage. It was designed to show big hits, and, again, if you watch the vidoes, they don't go down every time.

I didn't say "they go down everytime" in that way. I can see some hits being brushed off, that's clear. But each time a tackle happens it looks like there is no fight from the ballcarrier. You see it differently. We must agree to disagree.

I also should point out that NM staff stated publicly back when this hit, that it was indeed a representation of in-game action and that Tackle Alley was potentially going to be part of the game (probably as a return drill/mode). Whatever tweaking they did to it I heard nothing about, and it probably came after I stopped keeping up on the game as much.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

I even called out specific tackles from the video so we could be on the same page, but you chose to ignore them.

I did not ignore that at all. I read every line, but I fundamentally disagree with your view. That video does not represent routine occurences of football, that's my opinion.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

If you hit a guy square on, front to back, then 9/10 they are going to stop in their tracks. It's all about positioning though in APF2K8. I'd have to break down the tackles on case by case basis to validate the hits in tackle alley, but they didn't seem all that outlandish to me the first couple times I have watched it.

It's not that the tackles in TA don't happen in real life, it's the frequency at which they happen in TA. But it's not just TA. People have pointed this out in all of the videos they've shown with tackling, and the recent one that was on the PSN show or whatever is just more of that. Looked cool as hell, but still the same thing.

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Sorry, don't know you from a hole in the wall. I have only been following APF2K8 intently, and I haven't seen you on the scene. I'll take your word on it though.

I don't know you "from a whole in the wall" either, and because of that I wouldn't make a statement like the one you made a few pages back, because it clearly asserted a hypothetical that you might know, but you were very much mistaken

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Everything can be modified in the game, but a players momentum should be visible and that's what I was pointing out. Point I was trying to get across is that it should be visible and felt, and Madden has failed to deliver on both those fronts thus far. I get what you are saying about response times, but those response times have to be represented by appropriate animations, turn cycles, starting/finishing of movement and such, and they aren't in Madden '09. I hope so, it's the only NFL game we got.

Agreed.

[hmoob]

Quote: Originally Posted by icomb1ne

I think we should put off talking about BB until we get some solid gameplay videos instead of basing it off these trailers which are most likely made to look cool/extreme on purpose. I am getting tired of having to read about BB based solely on speculation of short trailers!!! As of right now, there is not enough info to talk about it as much as we have been talking about it lately.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

I also should point out that NM staff stated publicly back when this hit, that it was indeed a representation of in-game action and that Tackle Alley was potentially going to be part of the game (probably as a return drill/mode). Whatever tweaking they did to it I heard nothing about, and it probably came after I stopped keeping up on the game as much.

Truth. I recall the NM staff mentioning this as well. In fact, it was a pretty 'big deal' when this trailer debuted b/c it was supposedly one of the trailers that was actually indicative of the on-field gameplay experience.