Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by totalownership

See now this is a great argument. I feel Forza 2 is more sim than GTP5 in just about every aspect. There's some things it does physics-wise that I think is off that Forza seems to do right. But this is a good debate about simplay. There's no debate that NBA 2K9 has gone further away from sim and has embraced some major arcade elements.

I didn't mean to imply that Forza 2 wasn't a simulation, because I feel it is. But I felt Gran Turismo is even more detailed with it's car customization options; in how I've read the lead developer is crazy about getting every detail about the cars in the game right. There have been a couple of Forza's released in the time since there was even one GT.

As far as 2K9 embracing arcade elements, I don't feel so. I think they've tried to make the game more authentic, tried to further distinguish players via attributes and individual dribble/dunk packages, they've worked to make the entire game experience feel like a real game from a presentation standpoint, etc. Online still has it's issues, but it's so much more playable than it was last year. They were the first to do online leagues and to my knowledge I don't think there's another sports game more customizable than 2K9 is (or it's top 2-3, at least). I just don't get why the game gets condemned as a whole for the few things some people don't like

[GSW]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Wow. I didn't get that you were reaching that much to make this "2K9 is ARCADE" point lol. So Live is ARCADE ('09 - I know people only want to talk about the future with the game)? It seems you're basically trying to fault the games for playing a certain way out of the box. I'm not a seamhead, but I can pick up The Show and have success - that doesn't make it less of a SIM. I may not be as knowledgeable as some here are regarding baseball, but I do have *some* knowledge of the game. If my daughter were to pick up The Show or NBA2K9 she'd likely have little to no success because she doesn't have a working knowledge of either sport. Really, trying to equate 2K9 to NBA Jam, NBA Street, or any other arcade game is ridiculous imo because you're trying to make an extreme distinction that a game is either/or SIM/ARCADE. I think that's why I didn't get where you were heading with The Show and your "Inside Drive/wait till next year for Live: are the only SIMs" comment.

i didnt call nba 2k9 a replica of nba jams, i said its a arcade game like nba jam... because all teams can be used in a similar manner with similar succses.

its easy to pick up and play.

and yea nba live is arcade too, but im not talking about live...live however has verbally come out and say they want to be a simulation game...so atleast they are putting there necks on the line and trying to go for the gusto.

again..nothign wrong with nba 2k9, its a good game but it is an arcade game...not over the top like nba jam and nba street were...but that doesnt mean its not "arcade".

And id liek to see you play MLB The Show on Legend/Hall Of Fame mode (no it doesnt cheat) and have continued succses.

I get what youre doing man and i appluad you youre trying to stick up for a good game.. but thats not changing the fact that its still an arcade game... its a really realistic looking arcade game though... thats whats so frustrating.

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by GSW

i didnt call nba 2k9 a replica of nba jams, i said its a arcade game like nba jam... because all teams can be used in a similar manner with similar succses. its easy to pick up and play. and yea nba live is arcade too, but im not talking about live...live however has verbally come out and say they want to be a simulation game...so atleast they are putting there necks on the line and trying to go for the gusto. again..nothign wrong with nba 2k9, its a good game but it is an arcade game...not over the top like nba jam and nba street were...but that doesnt mean its not "arcade". And id liek to see you play MLB The Show on Legend/Hall Of Fame mode (no it doesnt cheat) and have continued succses. I get what youre doing man and i appluad you youre trying to stick up for a good game.. but thats not changing the fact that its still an arcade game... its a really realistic looking arcade game though... thats whats so frustrating.

I disagree.

If you play against people who play the game like it's a sim or hell, even the CPU even with all their cheese...I would say the game plays fairly sim like.

If you play it against gamers who play it like an arcade game, it's going to play arcade. That's every game.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by GSW

i didnt call nba 2k9 a replica of nba jams, i said its a arcade game like nba jam... because all teams can be used in a similar manner with similar succses. its easy to pick up and play. and yea nba live is arcade too, but im not talking about live...live however has verbally come out and say they want to be a simulation game...so atleast they are putting there necks on the line and trying to go for the gusto.

lol I knew that was coming; just didn't know how it would be worded. Either way, you feel 2K9 is arcade and everything plays the same, fine. I'm enjoying the game and don't feel frustrated as you do. Personally I love the way 2K's been able to distinguish playing with Kobe/Lebron/Wade, Iverson/Nash/Paul, Garnett/Duncan/Nowitzki, etc., love the variation I get with games, and can't imagine how someone could say the teams essentially play the same. But to each his own.

[totalownership]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

I disagree. If you play against people who play the game like it's a sim or hell, even the CPU even with all their cheese...I would say the game plays fairly sim like. If you play it against gamers who play it like an arcade game, it's going to play arcade. That's every game.

No actually that's not every game. Play forza like an arcade and you'll hopefully be limping back to the pits, while getting dusted by someone who plays it sim. Play The Show like arcade and you'll never see a hit and get worked from someone who's playing it sim. Play this game like an arcade and you win. You play this game sim and you lose, play arcade and you win. Of course it all depends on the teams you pick but thats the point. A person who plays like an idiot should lose no matter which team they pick. Not this game.

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by totalownership

No actually that's not every game. Play forza like an arcade and you'll hopefully be limping back to the pits, while getting dusted by someone who plays it sim. Play The Show like arcade and you'll never see a hit and get worked from someone who's playing it sim. Play this game like an arcade and you win. You play this game sim and you lose, play arcade and you win. Of course it all depends on the teams you pick but thats the point. A person who plays like an idiot should lose no matter which team they pick. Not this game.

1) That's not by design. That's people taking advantage of flaws in the game. The rapid, reaction times, pinpoint passes, some unstoppable ISO moves, and the inability to defend close baskets. Every game has people who take advantage of flaws or tricks in the game....The Show (after playing a top player), Fifa included.

If I want to play with the Spurs, should I really be forced to play a slow it down game just because they do so in real life. Sure, it shouldn't be advantageous to do so, but I clearly don't think you can force someone to play the way they don't want to play.

2) If you know the game well enough, you can beat 80% of arcade gamers by playing sim. Switching on defense, using the right combination of settings, and playing controlled basketball will beat hardened cheesers most of the time. That said, I would agree that it is too easy for arcade-like gamers to compete.

[DC]

Hmmm, read this - http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2039432594

[GSW]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

1) That's not by design. That's people taking advantage of flaws in the game. The rapid, reaction times, pinpoint passes, some unstoppable ISO moves, and the inability to defend close baskets. Every game has people who take advantage of flaws or tricks in the game....The Show (after playing a top player), Fifa included. If I want to play with the Spurs, should I really be forced to play a slow it down game just because they do so in real life. Sure, it shouldn't be advantageous to do so, but I clearly don't think you can force someone to play the way they don't want to play. 2) If you know the game well enough, you can beat 80% of arcade gamers by playing sim. Switching on defense, using the right combination of settings, and playing controlled basketball will beat hardened cheesers most of the time. That said, I would agree that it is too easy for arcade-like gamers to compete.

the offensive moves you listed arent flaws..that is a game design...they want it to be easy to do a sweet looking crossover and get a layup and dunk. they want you to be able to pinpoint your passes, and make close shots, i mean come on...

after 3-4 years of the SAME "flaws" can we just agree the same "flaws" cant really exist and chop it up that that's the way it was meant to be?

and NO you cannot beat a "cheeser"/arcade like gamer 80% of the time playing SIM, at some point you will have to result to some arcade like tactics to secure the win.

Re: your spurs comment...no you shouldnt be "forced" to do anything, but you shouldnt have continued succcses if you chose to play that way...spurs are old, they would get tired way quick playing uptempo, and it would show on the defensive end, which would inevitably lead to more losses.