Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by GSW

MLB The Show doesnt do that though.

If you think NBA2K9 hasn't changed since the last gen, than The Show hasn't changed AT ALL since the last gen. No reason why we should still be using the same dated and simplistic mechanics and control schemes that was used in the old gen. It is especially apparent online. However, the ease of the controls helps casual gamers immensely.

ALL games try to appeal to a broader audience. That's why they created sliders and 2KShare for us.

The main thing 2K9 is guilty of is band-aiding the defensive AI(which was MUCH worse last year) and not telling us what the sliders and adjustments do (simply bad PR).

[GSW]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

If you think NBA2K9 hasn't changed since the last gen, than The Show hasn't changed AT ALL since the last gen. No reason why we should still be using the same dated and simplistic mechanics and control schemes that was used in the old gen. It is especially apparent online. However, the ease of the controls helps casual gamers immensely. ALL games try to appeal to a broader audience. That's why they created sliders and 2KShare for us. The main thing 2K9 is guilty of is band-aiding the defensive AI(which was MUCH worse last year) and not telling us what the sliders and adjustments do (simply bad PR).

he was saying the company keeps it ARCADE liek to appeal to the masses.

and MLB The Show doesnt do that.

Your not hitting an unrealistic amoutn of homeruns, or stealing bases, or getting an insane amount of hits, and triples, or striking out a zillion guys in the Show to appeal to a broader base...

why would i buy the show then, id just play The bigs 2.

Liek i was tellin my man... I want NBA 2k to be a sim as it was my favorite basketball game/favorite game period thru the years... but its not getting to that point, nor have steps been made in the last 4 years to get to that point...

That is OKAY...weve had Inside Drive, and now NBA Live appears to be going in that direction..

both sides can be happy... just like MLB 2k9 fans, vs The Show fans.

just because i say its "ARCADE" doesnt mean im saying its a terrible game, or that its bad.. i just cant personally get in to it as much as i prefer more realism than "video game"...

[spankdatazz22]

Just wanted to clarify - I've tweaked MLB2K9 to play realistically so I get accurate hit/pitch counts. I don't enjoy slapping a zillion homeruns or stealing ten times a game. Nor do I enjoy 5pitch innings. It's 2K's approach to the game that's appealing. I don't know much about the accuracy of the batter walkups and stances, but I enjoy them and enjoy the various camera options they give. With NBA2K9, I've tweaked the sliders to give me realistic shooting percentages. I'm no different than DC in not wanting to see windmill dunks occur in traffic with frequency in games. But I'm not to the point where I'm counting the dunks to make sure they don't exceed the league average. I play the games because I want a realistic experience. But there are varying degrees between something being deemed SIM and something being deemed ARCADE imo, at least by the definition some are putting out there. I don't think it's an either/or issue.

[totalownership]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

ummmm... okay lol I don't necessarily agree w/the Forza 2 analogy. A true driving SIM is Gran Turismo. But many (including me) don't find Gran Turismo enjoyable because it's too sim. It's to the point where it's too realistic and no longer fun. Of course for some, that's what they want. And it's a popular game, no doubt. But not everyone wants that extreme sim experience. Forza's a good example of a game that has a lot of simulation elements, but isn't so much of a sim that it becomes overbearing imo. As with The Show. I played the demo on my PS3 and you can feel the polish that went into the game. That said, I have more fun playing MLB2K9 - flaws and all. Perhaps because I'm not a big enough baseball fan to appreciate all the minute details they've put into The Show. Either way I'm just saying - I don't think everything needs to be essentially the same. There will be a market for The Show just as there's a market for MLB2K. Just as there's one for Forza and one for Gran Turismo

See now this is a great argument. I feel Forza 2 is more sim than GTP5 in just about every aspect. There's some things it does physics-wise that I think is off that Forza seems to do right. But this is a good debate about simplay. There's no debate that NBA 2K9 has gone further away from sim and has embraced some major arcade elements.

[DC]

But of course something that is as simple as holding a button for gas and releasing it off of turns for 30+ mins won't be fun. Sim or Arcade. You can't compare a racing game to basketball. Come on now

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by GSW

he was saying the company keeps it ARCADE liek to appeal to the masses. and MLB The Show doesnt do that. Your not hitting an unrealistic amoutn of homeruns, or stealing bases, or getting an insane amount of hits, and triples, or striking out a zillion guys in the Show to appeal to a broader base... why would i buy the show then, id just play The bigs 2. Liek i was tellin my man... I want NBA 2k to be a sim as it was my favorite basketball game/favorite game period thru the years... but its not getting to that point, nor have steps been made in the last 4 years to get to that point... That is OKAY...weve had Inside Drive, and now NBA Live appears to be going in that direction.. both sides can be happy... just like MLB 2k9 fans, vs The Show fans. just because i say its "ARCADE" doesnt mean im saying its a terrible game, or that its bad.. i just cant personally get in to it as much as i prefer more realism than "video game"...

But what has NBA2K9 done to make the game more arcade? The flashy dunks problem was the worst in NBA2K7 and has gotten better each successive year.

I remember when the game first came out, people were having trouble getting to the rim and finishing with star players. People were having problems getting open shots. Having problems with the post game, etc.

You can say they made the game more accessible. With practice, you can now pull off those flashy dunks with Lebron. But hell, I don't even think they have made the game more accessible by today's standards (NHL 09 and MLB2K9 are the guilty culprits of this...making the game easier without fixing fundamental problems). I do think they have fundamental problems with defense and particularly passing that should be corrected.

[GSW]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Just wanted to clarify - I've tweaked MLB2K9 to play realistically so I get accurate hit/pitch counts. I don't enjoy slapping a zillion homeruns or stealing ten times a game. Nor do I enjoy 5pitch innings. It's 2K's approach to the game that's appealing. I don't know much about the accuracy of the batter walkups and stances, but I enjoy them and enjoy the various camera options they give. With NBA2K9, I've tweaked the sliders to give me realistic shooting percentages. I'm no different than DC in not wanting to see windmill dunks occur in traffic with frequency in games. But I'm not to the point where I'm counting the dunks to make sure they don't exceed the league average. I play the games because I want a realistic experience. But there are varying degrees between something being deemed SIM and something being deemed ARCADE imo, at least by the definition some are putting out there. I don't think it's an either/or issue.

i dont count the dunks or anything of that nature...nor would i ever do that.

but you cant call NBA 2k9 a "Simulation" game... its a realistic looking arcade game IMO... again nothing "WRONG" with that.. just as ive gotten older i want more...

I prefer a game that punishes me for playing unrealistically, and rewards me for playing the right way..(Ive played online vs people who are run and gun with the SPURS, the ROCKETS, Pistons, and basocally any other team...)

I want a game that rewards/punishes you for using that team those players in a capacity tht they play in in real life...not vice versa.

Thats what i mean when i say ARCADE.

NBA Jam, was over the top, but the basic premise is, every team was basically the SAME, just different player heads...Arcade...easy to pick up n play, very little depth.

so nba 2k9, yes you can tone down dunks and make realistic field goal percentages but the basic under lying truth is, you can pick the game up, having never played it and have succses...i dont want that i like a challenge/steep learning curve...and i want to feel rewarded when playing because i feel i have in-depth knowledge of the NBA game and its players.

Its not fun to me to get a rebound with jason richardson be able to cross up kobe then get a dunk...doesnt/wouldnt happen in real life at the frequency that it happens in the game, and un fortunatly id have to do extense tweaking to his ratings to fix it...(Arcade)

I want the game as is to clearly show that JR smith is not one of the best Sg's in the NBA because he can dunk and hit threes...hes inconsitent in real life and cant just get to the basket anytime he wants...in the game he can though (Arcade)

Thats just me though...

So as 2k is/was my favorite game i just want things that make it Arcade-like to go away, and be replaced by things that make it REALISTIC.

Im 100% positive if the game gets more relaistic people will still play it, even casuals...dont underestimate the casuals..Theres a reason why NBA Jam isnt being made anymore...It's not fun to ANYONE to play for long periods of time anymore.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by GSW

NBA Jam, was over the top, but the basic premise is, every team was basically the SAME, just different player heads...Arcade...easy to pick up n play, very little depth. so nba 2k9, yes you can tone down dunks and make realistic field goal percentages but the basic under lying truth is, you can pick the game up, having never played it and have succses...i dont want that i like a challenge/steep learning curve...and i want to feel rewarded when playing because i feel i have in-depth knowledge of the NBA game and its players.

Wow. I didn't get that you were reaching that much to make this "2K9 is ARCADE" point lol. So Live is ARCADE ('09 - I know people only want to talk about the future with the game)? It seems you're basically trying to fault the games for playing a certain way out of the box. I'm not a seamhead, but I can pick up The Show and have success - that doesn't make it less of a SIM. I may not be as knowledgeable as some here are regarding baseball, but I do have *some* knowledge of the game. If my daughter were to pick up The Show or NBA2K9 she'd likely have little to no success because she doesn't have a working knowledge of either sport. Really, trying to equate 2K9 to NBA Jam, NBA Street, or any other arcade game is ridiculous imo because you're trying to make an extreme distinction that a game is either/or SIM/ARCADE. I think that's why I didn't get where you were heading with The Show and your "Inside Drive/wait till next year for Live: are the only SIMs" comment.