Whose Ratings Should be Dropped in MLB '09: The Show?

[twiztiddarkangelman]

Oh and BTW. I do look upon cheating as cheating, no matter what form it takes.

[teebee]

Tulo shouldn't be on that list, sure technically his #'s were down last year but he had a bad injury out off spring then broke a bat and stabbed himself in the hand, pretty freak accidenty if you axe me.

Tulo is as sure a thing at SS as you can have, don't let fantasy drafts affect real life logic, the main reason i don't play fantasy (geeky game for bored white people)

[royals_fan_16]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jdurg

I have trouble seeing how it's going to matter since his last injection was in 2003..........................

You have to take that with a grain of salt.

[Jdurg]

Quote: Originally Posted by twiztiddarkangelman

I guess they look at Perry "doctoring" the ball, or Nettles putting "superballs" in his bat, or Sosa using cork in his bat in a different light. I can't speak to what doctoring a bat really does for a hitter, I know first hand if you do things to a baseball you will absolutely cause change in the way it rotates. I think the question is how much do these things effect the game when compared to the drug issue. I just think that they are looked at differently. I mean doctoring bats and balls IMO is looked at almost in amusement by sportscasters when these things have come out. Almost like they were just quirky little things. It seems like the whole drug issue is being taken far more seriously. But ironically, no one in the game or the people reporting the game seemed to mind this was going on until it became a federal case. And this is just my opinion.

I think the doctoring of the baseball has the same effect as a batter using PED's. If a pitcher doesn't have as sharp a break on his breaking ball, or much movement on his fastball, by putting junk on the ball he can give it enough extra/late movement to put the ball in a slightly different spot on the hitter's bat. As a result, what would have been a homerun or a sharply hit ground ball becomes a fly ball to the warning track or soft grounder to an infielder. So what should have been basehits against the pitcher become outs.

With doctoring a bat up, you are making the bat lighter which gives you the ability to swing it quicker. F=MV, so the small reduction in mass can provide a greater increase in velocity which results in more force being put on the ball. It allows the batter to wait just a little bit longer before swinging, and as a result he can pick up on the break of a pitch better. Therefore, instead of hitting it a little late, he hits it right on time and gets a basehit he didn't deserve.

I haven't heard any solid reasons out there why cheating using drugs is different than cheating by doctoring the equipment. It's a bit of hypocracy by the media and the general public. At least there are some of us who think of both as "cheating".

Also, to be fully honest, the use of PEDs in modern baseball doesn't really bother me. If a player using these drugs, he's only short-changing himself and his own health. With the rising cost of tickets and watching the game, when I go to a ball game I want to see the best of the best. If they are taking drugs to make themselves better, then I see a better product. It's not the olympics where integrity is far, far more important as you are representing your country and it's a competition of who is the best at that particular event. In professional sports, it's all entertainment. The only people who really have the greatest reason to be pissed about it all are the players who don't take drugs. For those who bet on the game and think that it hurts them, well, you shouldn't be betting on the game.

[dave_sz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jdurg

If a pitcher doesn't have as sharp a break on his breaking ball, or much movement on his fastball, by putting junk on the ball he can give it enough extra/late movement to put the ball in a slightly different spot on the hitter's bat. As a result, what would have been a homerun or a sharply hit ground ball becomes a fly ball to the warning track or soft grounder to an infielder. So what should have been basehits against the pitcher become outs.

but the "juiced" ball doesn't affect what the batter sees. when the average player hits the ball 2.6 times out of 10, it's pretty clear that luck is a big part of it. So whether the ball break more or less, sooner or later is still only half the equation. The batter, his thinking, what he is expecting, is the other half. Actually, roids for pitchers would be the same effect. As far as i'm concerned, pitchers can take all the roids and shrooms and pills and what not as much as they want. I lost my train of thought in there somewhere...

[Jdurg]

Quote: Originally Posted by dave_sz

but the "juiced" ball doesn't affect what the batter sees. when the average player hits the ball 2.6 times out of 10, it's pretty clear that luck is a big part of it. So whether the ball break more or less, sooner or later is still only half the equation. The batter, his thinking, what he is expecting, is the other half. Actually, roids for pitchers would be the same effect. As far as i'm concerned, pitchers can take all the roids and shrooms and pills and what not as much as they want. I lost my train of thought in there somewhere...

Lol. Yup. But with a hitter using "roids", the common argument is that the flyball they normally would have hit would now be going over the wall for a homerun turning an out into a hit. Again, it's the EXACT SAME THING that a pitcher gets when they doctor the ball, and a LOT of pitchers do that. Not as infamously as Gaylord Perry, but subtley by having their catcher scuff up a ball for them, or using their nails to put a little groove in the ball. Again, it's blatant cheating but the media/public seem to accept that.

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by dave_sz

but the "juiced" ball doesn't affect what the batter sees. when the average player hits the ball 2.6 times out of 10, it's pretty clear that luck is a big part of it. So whether the ball break more or less, sooner or later is still only half the equation. The batter, his thinking, what he is expecting, is the other half. Actually, roids for pitchers would be the same effect. As far as i'm concerned, pitchers can take all the roids and shrooms and pills and what not as much as they want. I lost my train of thought in there somewhere...

lol

I think the biggest issue with steroids, HGH, etc. is more about longevity in performance rather than enhanced performance itself. The recovery of fatigue, energy boost, sped up healing (and at times, masking) of injuries, allow for longer stretches at peak performance.

Bonds, for example, was a HOF caliber player anyway. His steroid use allowed him to to play at max strength with considerably less performance drop. This would be a bigger contribution to him hitting 73 HRs than just increased strength or a flyball "stretching out," IMO. It's a more spread out and indirect effect in that sense.

It's why you won't see a scrub turn into a star, but you might see a mid-level guy turn into a star for a time. Brady Anderson was a solid enough player. A little steroids on an "up" year (I don't believe the spike was 100% attributed to "juice") and he has 50 HRs. Not saying it's all as black and white as that, but that's the premise, IMO.

All that said, how did all this get started in a "ratings drop" thread?...lol. I must have blacked out for a few pages

[NikSaban]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jdurg

Lol. Yup. But with a hitter using "roids", the common argument is that the flyball they normally would have hit would now be going over the wall for a homerun turning an out into a hit. Again, it's the EXACT SAME THING that a pitcher gets when they doctor the ball, and a LOT of pitchers do that. Not as infamously as Gaylord Perry, but subtley by having their catcher scuff up a ball for them, or using their nails to put a little groove in the ball. Again, it's blatant cheating but the media/public seem to accept that.

You know, I always wondered why Maddon didn't have the umps check Blanton's cap. Didn't it look like pine tar or some substance to you guys? Before every pitch he rubbed his right hand on the same spot. Dirt my @ss. LOL!