NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

[Keith121212]

I'm never wasting my time reading a "ChrisS" article again after this garbage.

[Pared]

fist,

I think that comment would be very unfair, no matter who made it.

But I can understand those who could read some of these articles regarding NCAA and feel they are almost as out of touch with what other gamers think as those developing the game.

Madden and NCAA are consistently grouped and discussed as being EA's worst products this year. I don't like to get hung up on specific portions of an article/review/comment (ok, I'm lying here; I do it all the time) but I just can't agree with anyone giving NCAA a grade of "A" in any area outside of Online Dynasty.

I would say that single mode saved the game for a large portion of the NCAA Online community.

[fistofrage]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

fist, I think that comment would be very unfair, no matter who made it. But I can understand those who could read some of these articles regarding NCAA and feel they are almost as out of touch with what other gamers think as those developing the game. Madden and NCAA are consistently grouped and discussed as being EA's worst products this year. I don't like to get hung up on specific portions of an article/review/comment (ok, I'm lying here; I do it all the time) but I just can't agree with anyone giving NCAA a grade of "A" in any area outside of Online Dynasty. I would say that single mode saved the game for a large portion of the NCAA Online community.

Maybe unfair, but I don't think so. I think these guys are in a tough spot like you said, but I also think in some ways they are also our voice. To the outside, I am sure they are considered the "experts" on the subject. Why else would they be writing on it? To say the gameplay is an A is calling it just short of perfect in the 95-97 range. That would indicate EA college football is a minor tweak away from being A+ or perfect.

EA would be quick to point to this review and for their own agenda, equate the OS perception with this article and deem the entire site gave gameplay an A.

I may have been harsh, but its frustrating. At a time when we need people to reach out and communicate our concerns with EA so we can get a complete product once in our lifetime(because we'll be back to square 1 with the next next gen in a couple years), we end up getting someone who has give them near perfect marks in gameplay. Where would EA's motivation to improve gameplay now come from?

[Pared]

I agree that they are our voice, in a sense. That is why I suggested an article highlight the issues the community has with the game. I think this is just one individual's take on the game but much like you said can be interpreted as to being the general consensus of OS.

That, IMHO, would be a shame.

I just feel claiming they are on the take is unfair as someone may honestly feel the gameplay is an A. Would I or others agree with them? No... but that doesn't mean they don't have a right to their opinion.

But yes, when it becomes the voice of the community I can understand the resulting worry and frustrations.

[fistofrage]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

I agree that they are our voice, in a sense. That is why I suggested an article highlight the issues the community has with the game. I think this is just one individual's take on the game but much like you said can be interpreted as to being the general consensus of OS. That, IMHO, would be a shame. I just feel claiming they are on the take is unfair as someone may honestly feel the gameplay is an A. Would I or others agree with them? No... but that doesn't mean they don't have a right to their opinion. But yes, when it becomes the voice of the community I can understand the resulting worry and frustrations.

Exactly, that's why I said that they are in a hard place. Everyone should be entitled to share their opinion, but when an OS writer puts his opinion in an article, it can be deemed the consensus view of the community.

I would imagine that less than 10% of the active community would grade this game an A in gameplay, but EA could spin this article in an entirely different position.

Also, I don't feel that the reviewer could have possibly tested out our concerns. For the fact alone that speed kills and after 1 year of recruiting 99 speed 2* receivers, you can with the national title on Heisman with anyone. That's a freaking game killer if you allow yourself to recruit speed. The AI not throwing deep, the pick 6's, the AI run game non existant unless you totally up their ability and lower yours, the cement shoe shuffle QB choice run over and over again by the AI, the automatic 55 yard FG's, Oline/Dline interaction, lack of penalties, the list goes on an on.

If you are a reviewer, don't you take points off for this?

An A rating means nearing perfection, 1 tweak here or there and we have reached the gold standard.....Can you honestly find a reason why somebody would make that claim? And have it speak for a whole community?

[ChaseB]

I'll preface this by saying I'm not a football guy -- I don't really like to watch it etc. -- and I don't enjoy Madden or NCAA all that much, but I obviously feel compelled to talk about this sort of backlash, just like I was after I got back from E3 and noticed the uproar from the original NCAA review.

Quote: Originally Posted by fistofrage

But he has a point. What if the EA programmers are sitting around right now trying to figure out what they can do to appease the OS critics. I know, I know.....But just imagine they read our posts are take the constructive criticism. And then EA Smithers goes running up to them with the review. "I think you'll be pleased sir." "Exxxxcellent, apparantly we don't have to change a thing, OS just gave our gameplay an A. And to think, Johnson, you were going to work this weekend trying to fix that pick 6 issue they were complaining about. Go enjoy that new movie you wanted to see instead".

I don't downplay the possible effects OS can have on a broader sports-gaming audience, truly I don't. I do believe we can be a "beacon" for sports developers and all that, but I also realize that these developers are not robots, and they take in more than simply what a front page or review says. After all, they are here in the community and so they have to know many of you are not happy. It would be nearly impossible not to notice this.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

OS Writing Staff, You guys have to be in a very difficult situation here. Between the numerous glowing, positive articles regarding NCAA (that was blasted by the community early on) to this, I don't think you can "win" unless you are overly critical of this and Madden. I empathize with the situation you're in. I think you can say you enjoy the game for whatever reason... but I honestly feel that there are plenty of valid, legitimate comments being made and elaborated on how the game plays and the strategies involved that ultimately lead to a negative, un-enjoyable experience for some gamers here. Perhaps an article on the community's expectations for '10 would balance out how some feel about the future of this series.

Definitely the staff response has been more positive than negative when it comes to NCAA this year. I also do not personally poo-poo the valid complaints being made about the game. As an outsider, I do think a lot of the positive staff vibes have to do with playing with friends in an online dynasty. I know I sometimes play games that are not all that great and have a good time them because I am playing with friends, and so we are BSing as we play or whatever. And at the same time, I can't tell the writers to be negative just to be negative -- unless it's actually for part of a story aka playing devil's advocate. I don't think the staff has been universally positive either though. I know Patrick Williams wrote a "negative" NCAA article a bit ago discussing his unhappiness with the game, and the fact that the patch was too little too late.

But returning to the point, before the "postmortem" went up, the day before we did post the consolidation process article, which was meant for people to post their biggest expectations for the following year, so we did at the very least that. Having a whole article devoted to the comments within that growing thread isn't a terrible idea either. And I can also say that as I edited Christian's article, I knew there would be anger and all that -- because hey I remember the review thread and having to talk about all this then. Frankly, I sort of dreaded it. But I think as one of the editors it's important to let people write about what they want, because otherwise it wouldn't be good in the first place. Christian was passionate about writing this article, and so an editor let him do it.

However, this is the first "postmortem" we have really done, and we plan to do them again moving forward. So, this is another learning experience, and I think I have learned from this, and in the future I think we will put more weight behind postmortems. As it stands, it was Christian's opinion and Christian's grades. The next postmortem we do will probably be by the "OS Staff" and will have opinions from multiple staff members, so we can better gauge the response of the entire staff -- or perhaps we won't put grades on the various aspects of the game, it's up for discussion. That way, at least the whole staff will either be berated or praised or whatever, instead of Christian having to take these body shots for his personal opinion. As of now, I think you should blame me before Christian, because I am the one who allowed the article to go up, he simply wrote it.

Quote: Originally Posted by fistofrage

If you didn't know any better, they would appear to be on the take....

I am swimming in EA printed money as I write this response.

Quote: Originally Posted by Keith121212

I'm never wasting my time reading a "ChrisS" article again after this garbage.

It was written by Christian -- "Bumble" on the forums. Chris just posted the article, like he always does for any written articles.

Quote: Originally Posted by fistofrage

Maybe unfair, but I don't think so. I think these guys are in a tough spot like you said, but I also think in some ways they are also our voice. To the outside, I am sure they are considered the "experts" on the subject. Why else would they be writing on it? To say the gameplay is an A is calling it just short of perfect in the 95-97 range. That would indicate EA college football is a minor tweak away from being A+ or perfect. EA would be quick to point to this review and for their own agenda, equate the OS perception with this article and deem the entire site gave gameplay an A. I may have been harsh, but its frustrating. At a time when we need people to reach out and communicate our concerns with EA so we can get a complete product once in our lifetime(because we'll be back to square 1 with the next next gen in a couple years), we end up getting someone who has give them near perfect marks in gameplay. Where would EA's motivation to improve gameplay now come from?

It was perhaps worded a bit harshly/unfairly but it is honestly a valid point in some regards. We do have input with developers at certain points. I know when I preview games, sometimes developers will ask what I think of the game or what the reaction will be from the community once the game comes out. Now most of the time, I don't think it's my "job" to tell them right then what I think of the game -- my "job" is to tell you all first what I think of it so I can remain as fair as possible without being swayed one way or the other. Then, later perhaps I will e-mail the developers or simply let them read the preview or something else along those lines. But, I don't want this point to lose focus: I do think it's important to tell them what can be improved upon at some point. But it's not solely my job to do so.

You all have done a great job giving the developers advice for months now. Developers have been around these parts and you guys have given tons of input and I think the EA developers are deeply interested in what you all have said. Plus, I would guess this year there will be some full-time OS "Community Leaders" like there are now for most of EA Canada's sports games/Sony Sports -- if it has not already happened, like I said at the start of this I am not an avid football follower, which does somewhat include the latest community info.

I don't think Christian's beliefs about the game would make them simply stop working, even if I do kind of think it would be rather awesome if OS had that much pull. Being able to start and stop development improvements at the drop of a hat would be quite a powerful tool.

[fistofrage]

^^^Thanks for the response Chase. Believe me, I understand that you guys are in a tough position and will take heat no matter what you write.

But I also appreciate that you understood where I was coming from in my response that its hard to hold EA to task when they get an A in gameplay from OS.

[Pared]

Bumble wrote this? Between these comments and the NBA Live comments he really enjoys causing quite a stir, eh?

I think you hit a great point about allowing this sort of article to include multiple opinions on the topic being discussed. It would allow readers to discern who they trust (or don't) regarding a sports video game.

Perhaps even allow a few forum goers to provide their input as well.