What NBA 2K Needs to Do to Step Up Its Online Game

[steve baker]

would anyone chip/mod their xbox 360 to get this game for £5.00

[BigRan]

I can't believe some of the things being said here......

Let me add my thoughts.

Yes.... there is such a thing as cheese when it comes to "sim" sports video-games. And it is especially more evident online where lag comes into play.

First of all let's define what we mean by a "sim" sports game. A simulation sports game is one where it attempts to emulate the tendencies, strategies, and outcomes of the sport it is trying to emulate. This is very much different from an arcade type of game like NFL Blitz or NBA Street. The arcade games have strategy to them but it relies more on reflexes and not so much on actual knowledge of the sport.

A simulation game is one that is trying to mimic as close as possible the sport in which it is emulating. The goal is to duplicate the abilites, strategies, and situations you see in the actual sport.

Of course there is always going to be a divide between what a video-game is actually capable of doing versus what actually happens in a real game. Because of this there are 2 mindsets you can have regarding the game:

1) Believe that the video-game should recreate the sport.........therefore play the video-game using strenghts/tactics that you see in the actual sport to fuel your offense and defense.
2) The videogame is simply a game. Use whatever tactics within the confines of the game to win. If you can win then you are the best at the game.

Now the REAL issue to this topic is whether mindset #1 or mindset #2 is correct. the answer is they are both correct. It depends on what you want to do.

The mindests are not mutually exclusive either. In other words, just because a person likes mindet #1 does not mean that they cannot play at a high level at mindset #2...... and vice versa...just because someone excels at playing under mindset #2 does not neccesarily make them not as good using mindset #1.

Again the problem is with the game itself, and the gap between what it actually does from the sport it is attempting to replicate.

So...where does "cheese" come in. Well, 1st of all you must be dealing with those who have the 1st mentality (recreate real-sport tendecies/tactics etc). In this mentality, "cheese" is to do something in the game that cannot be recreated in real-life:

- Offensive abilities that cannot be done in the real world...or cannot be defeated with real-world techniques
- Defensive abilities that cannot be done in the real-world..... or countered with real-world techniques

The level a videogame is measured to be a "sim" is how well it forces it's users to recreate that sports' strategies and tactics while still offering the user freedom of control. It is the job of the game-developers to analyze their current games and to refine them to make what happens during the vidoe-game expereicne resemble what happens in an actual NBA game.
Now let's take a look at the main one things specified in this thread. Turbo

Turbo is an interesting concept because it does not exist in real-life. So the question is why does it exist in the videogame??? The obvious answer is that in real life there are certain abilities that are avialable to a player when they move at an agressive-speed (running on a fastbreak) than what is considered a normal speed.....and vice-versa

So what is the problem....simply players are able to move at very fast speeds with no penalties over their ball control or foul being committed. Now those with mindset #2 will see no problem with this because the game allows it. On the other hand if you are at mindset #1 there is NOTHING you can do to stop it.....because it does not exist in real-life. You will never see a game where nor any other player can move that fast with that amount of precision on the court.

(to be continued).....

[PaulZweber]

I do not have a problem with turbo being a sim gamer. Players do not play at full speed most of the time, it is a game of changing speeds and misdirection. Turbo gives the ability to fast break, and there is nothing cheap about it if done the right way. Another definition for cheese - taking advantage of a known bug or play that is guaranteed to give you an advantage. What I do have a problem with, is playing SO many people with the mindset that, it is just a game, who cares if it isn't played right, I want to win and do whatever is possible. This detracts from the whole experience, I play NBA 2k to be a representation of the NBA game. I play Ballers and Street so i can play an And 1 Mixtape game. I find a lot of the players who "cheese" are either absolutely terrible, or have spent way too much time finding ways to exploit the game, as opposed to formulating a strategy for the game. I couldn't care less if I lose, ranked or unranked, as long as it is an enjoyable experience for both players. That is why I joined Madden Sim leagues. I will put it this way, if I play a cheeser, they get about a quarter to play the correct way, or I quit. It is not fun nor accurate, and is basically a waste of my time.

[cardinalbird5]

Quote: Originally Posted by PaulZweber

I do not have a problem with turbo being a sim gamer. Players do not play at full speed most of the time, it is a game of changing speeds and misdirection. Turbo gives the ability to fast break, and there is nothing cheap about it if done the right way. Another definition for cheese - taking advantage of a known bug or play that is guaranteed to give you an advantage. What I do have a problem with, is playing SO many people with the mindset that, it is just a game, who cares if it isn't played right, I want to win and do whatever is possible. This detracts from the whole experience, I play NBA 2k to be a representation of the NBA game. I play Ballers and Street so i can play an And 1 Mixtape game. I find a lot of the players who "cheese" are either absolutely terrible, or have spent way too much time finding ways to exploit the game, as opposed to formulating a strategy for the game. I couldn't care less if I lose, ranked or unranked, as long as it is an enjoyable experience for both players. That is why I joined Madden Sim leagues. I will put it this way, if I play a cheeser, they get about a quarter to play the correct way, or I quit. It is not fun nor accurate, and is basically a waste of my time.

Can I use this for my thesis? I totally agree. The people that treat it as just a game will do anything to win. I, for one, want a representation of the NBA and how basketball is played. The people that call out sim gamers for being whiny, sucky, etc. do not understand the whole point. We play to have fun and use sim strategy to do so. It isn't really hard lead passing the whole game. Will I win more often? Possibily. Will I have fun and get more satisfaction out of it? No! Some guys do complain, because they do suck. But some of the complaining is legit and some of the guys do have a point. It gets boring using the same glitch or abusive move the whole game.

[Defense Wins Games]

Quote: Originally Posted by cardinalbird7

Can I use this for my thesis? I totally agree. The people that treat it as just a game will do anything to win. I, for one, want a representation of the NBA and how basketball is played. The people that call out sim gamers for being whiny, sucky, etc. do not understand the whole point. We play to have fun and use sim strategy to do so. It isn't really hard lead passing the whole game. Will I win more often? Possibily. Will I have fun and get more satisfaction out of it? No! Some guys do complain, because they do suck. But some of the complaining is legit and some of the guys do have a point. It gets boring using the same glitch or abusive move the whole game.

Then play offline or unranked games. Because ranked games are ranked for a reason. It's about winning.

[Defense Wins Games]

Quote: Originally Posted by -DaVe-

Yea because they found exploits to combat the other players exploit... Funny you think I suck when you have to abuse one player to win...

I don't have to abuse one player to win. I scored 71 with Durant cause the kid I was playing pissed me off. And nothing annoys people more than a one man show. Especially when the player has a what, 80 or so rating? You still don't get it, do you, kid? You use what works until it stops working. You force the defense to adjust. How many times do I have to say it before you understand this? If you have to complain, you suck. End of story.

[Defense Wins Games]

Quote: Originally Posted by PaulZweber

Unbelievable. Defense Wins Games - you obviously have no concept of the game of basketball, and how it is played. You have no idea what an exploit is. What you talk about isn't a strategy, or skill, or being good at a game. It is taking advantage of something that isn't meant to be played that way. I am not going to stop playing like a REAL NBA TEAM, just because you can't play and win a game the way it was meant to be played. I find no joy in playing with Lebron, scoring 100 and winning, but I love scoring 20 with him and losing. It is about the experience isn't it? Are you getting paid to play video games online? Are you going to lose your job if you lose? You badmouth our skills when it is so clear that you are the one who can't play the sticks. To run one guy up and down the court is not basketball, and involves no skill. Standing under the hoop, jumping straight up, and dunking the ball, without a foul or block, is HIGHLY unlikely. That isn't basketball, and shouldn't be exploited. I doubt very much that you would be able to beat me, it isn't hard to beat CHEESERS like you, it is just a pain in the *** and not much fun to play. Same thing with Madden, a sim strategy overcomes glitches and exploits. When you want to step up your game to play the way the game was meant, the way the professionals play, then good luck to you. Until then, have fun getting beat and hated on.

How do you know how I play? You have never seen me play. I use strategies that I know my opponent will have difficulty stopping. I use different strategies depending on the team I play against and the person I play against. THAT's SPORTS. You use all the tools available to you in the game. If you want to blame someone, blame the developers. It's not like I'm using some sort of 3rd party hack to get an upper hand. You have every tool I have. If you want to stop the dunks, GUARD THE FCKN PAINT. See all you people do is whine because you want to play how you see it on TV. Well that will never happen. If the defense allowed LeBron to dunk on every play, he would in real life. And that's what I do in the game. Until you shut down the drive (which you can do, believe it or not, but you probably don't cause you suck), I'm gonna keep driving. If you can clog the driving lanes or send double teams, I'm gonna have to adjust my game plan and start raining 3's. You're one of those slow-thinkers that can't stand a fast-paced game. Gives you headaches because you have slow reflexes and you think slowly and narrowly. You don't know how to work around things. You don't know how to analyze a problem and find a solution. You think basketball is just the basketball you see. There's X's and O's behind the scenes you don't know about. Check Bowen out. In real life, if the ref doesn't call flagrants or techs on the antics he does, he's gonna keep doing them. Look at Shaq. He threw those elbows at the defender for years and got a dunk every time. Until the refs started cracking down on it. And now it's an offensive foul. Look at the flopping. I've seen Ginobili run behind Garnett and intentionally fall down. And the foul was called on Garnett and he wasn't even moving. See, in real life, people do what they can to win. Even the best of them, Jordan pushed off Russell to get free for his final shot as a Bull. Kobe would elbow his defender after he shoots the ball until he got suspended for it.

I play AND watch basketball. People will do all kinds of things to win. Those are things a game can't capture. So they leave things a little more loose. See people like you want a slow-down game because you can't keep up with a fast paced game. You're both too stupid and just physically incapable of keeping up with the best.

[PaulZweber]

Quote: Originally Posted by Defense Wins Games

I don't have to abuse one player to win. I scored 71 with Durant cause the kid I was playing pissed me off. And nothing annoys people more than a one man show. Especially when the player has a what, 80 or so rating? You still don't get it, do you, kid? You use what works until it stops working. You force the defense to adjust. How many times do I have to say it before you understand this? If you have to complain, you suck. End of story.

You sound like you are 12 years old. I am done arguing with you. Cardinal, you know what I am saying, along with most of the 20+ age gamers here. I coach a basketball team, I use strategy and plays, no one runs around like a chicken with there head chopped off trying to get to the rim. That is just the game. Passing moves the ball faster than dribbling. Simple fact. That is why Lead Pass works so well, unfortunatly, the accuracy is too high to deter players from throwing it up the court, and defense doesn't get back quick enough.