Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

[RogueHominid]

I just gave this game a rental to see what it played like after the second patch, and it was, to my surprise, very fun. I lost with my Raiders to the Broncos 9-8 with 12 minute quarters and I would say 8/10 of the game felt very good. There was wonderful pacing, good, stiff competition all game long, and good stats for the most part. Kirk Morrison had 12 tackles, and their leading guy had 11--I love that! I haven't been able to have a defensive battle in Madden for ages.

I was surprised to see that the CPU even missed a chip-shot FG--I've never seen that in Madden.

The only things that seem a little off to me are the obvious: completion percentage and the running game. Cutler completed 80% against me and Russell 69%. I don't have a problem with Cutler shredding me, but 80% over 35+ passes is a bit much--I could see going 12-15 or something every now and again, but I'd love to see the completions toned down. And we all know Russel isn't going to hit 69%.

It seems that completion percentages can be lowered with sliders, but I would love to see an adjustment to the simmed stats engine. I don't want to continue kicking the Robo QB horse, but I know Ian is a huge fan of realism (and this game is WAAAAY better than any other next-gen Madden, so kudos!), so a more reasonable bar should be set for stats. In Brady's super season he hit 68.9% of his passes. Montana and Young, two of the game's most accurate hit 70%, but only once apiece in two HOF careers. A very good season is 65%; last year's SB winning QB completed 56%, and even the new and improved version of Eli is sitting at 60%.

[Walker8]

Quote: Originally Posted by davidandjordan

Robo QB DOES exist, there's no question about that whatsoever. And it doesn't have anything to do with a human playing against the CPU. There's just something wrong with the whole engine, and player warping just contributes to the problem. After restarting my franchise, I'm 9 weeks in and the lowest starting QB completion percentage is 59%. There are more than 5 guys over 70% and Phillip Rivers is at 80%! For some reason, it's just very easy for the computer to complete passes. Player warping contributes, especially in man coverage, because if you have a reciever running with a cornerback right on his tail, when you throw a pass and lead the reciever, only the reciever is (usually) in "warp range" and suddenly speeds out of the coverage that is right on his backside and makes a catch. If there wasn't player warping, the CB would many times reach out in front of the reciever and be able to bat down a pass. There IS Robo QB. Franchise completion percentage is a clear proof of that. Anytime you have only a few guys UNDER 65%, there's something wrong. There should be only a few guys OVER 65%.

I agree that the completion percentages are out of whack and people are seeing these things. I'm not arguing that. I just think it's more a pass coverage problem than it has to do with the AI of the qb. It's a little bit of both maybe, but I think we are seeing these completion percentages because EA overcompensated for the juiced up defensive coverage ai from last year. If you watch the coverage ai the cpu rarely if ever makes a play on the ball and there are players wide open all over the place. the coverage ai in general is really bad. I agree it has to do with the engine entirely and the ai is not right plus its not balanced correctly. I don't think it's robo qb's we are necessarily seeing though. if you watch the qb they aren't doing anything that is really juiced. they are too accurate and dont make enough bad passes but if you pressure them, or have good coverage, they do. All I'm saying its it seems like more a pass coverage problem and that is why the completion percentages are out of whack.

The problem with this game is the offense has advanced and the defense hasn't really and we are left with an unbalanced game. If EA ever concentrates on defensive ai and the cpu running game we will see a good version of madden. I agree the ai of the qb could be tweaked a bit but i tend to think we are just seeing this amplified because of other problems with the game. EA is pretty much inept imo and can't tell their *** from their elbow on a lot of this stuff, or they just don't care and rush out this game and it's extremely unbalanced. Last year was bad with all the interceptions and this year there really is no excuse. They had a whole year to fix the problems with passing and all they did was just make it just as messed up in the other direction.

[swanlee]

Quote: Originally Posted by ps2mike

And there is no such thing as Robo QB. The only people who think there is a Robo QB are the ones who don't want to believe they just suck and can't play defense and need a excuse. Sure, maybe the CPU QB goes crazy in the 4th qtr when down but most the passes i've seen them do have been to open WR's. It's not like they are doing crazy stuff to get these yards.

Think your missing the point of the Robo QB complaints, even if your defensive skills suck every QB is going to make bad throws several times a game. Even in a practice or scrimmage QB's make bad throws which has nothing to do with the ability of the defense.

We want to see more badly thrown balls and passes that are just plain off target. No QB has perfect accuracy even if the defense completely sucks.

[Walker8]

Quote: Originally Posted by swanlee

Think your missing the point of the Robo QB complaints, even if your defensive skills suck every QB is going to make bad throws several times a game. Even in a practice or scrimmage QB's make bad throws which has nothing to do with the ability of the defense. We want to see more badly thrown balls and passes that are just plain off target. No QB has perfect accuracy even if the defense completely sucks.

I know what you are saying but if you cover guys and pressure the qb, the qb does make bad throws. actually cover players for a play and you will see the qb make bad throws. even if there is a guy wide open. the qb makes more bad throws the better the coverage is. if you have good coverage for several plays even if you have bad coverage one play you will see the qb make a bad throw. its like they get rattled... the problem imo is its almost like the qb gets in a zone, because the coverage in general is really poor and there is a lack of pressure. they start completing passes and get hot. then all of a sudden its like they are robo qb because their stats are boosted or something. there is momentum in this games logic. if you cover the receivers better and never let the qb get going you will see a lot more bad balls thrown. my defense has gotten better and im not seeing robo qb anymore.... my main problem at this point is im completing way too many passes and my qb gets in a zone because the cpu is not having the same success i am. the coverage in this game in general is really bad. it's all just really unbalanced. i agree the cpus accuracy needs to be turned down, but it's a bigger problem than that. Either the engine needs to be scrapped from the ground up or they need to retool it and get it more balanced somehow. They are getting closer and farther away at the same time. IMO it's not the engine, it's really just lazyness and someone in the EA office just not fixing the problem. I'm aware its not a simple fix and its a lot of things going on at once that is causing this, but it's still ineptitude.

[countryboy]

one of the reasons that QB's are so accurate in video games is because there is never a "miscommunication" between the receiver and the QB. A majority of the time when you see a badly off target throw its because the QB and WR were thinking differently. Perhaps the WR broke off a route sooner than the QB expected or the QB read the defense so that the receiver should go outside but the receiver read the defense and cut inside, etc...

[Motown]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

one of the reasons that QB's are so accurate in video games is because there is never a "miscommunication" between the receiver and the QB. A majority of the time when you see a badly off target throw its because the QB and WR were thinking differently. Perhaps the WR broke off a route sooner than the QB expected or the QB read the defense so that the receiver should go outside but the receiver read the defense and cut inside, etc...

Is there a player "read play" edit i.e. NCAA...wonder if lowering this would help?

[DJ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trojan Man

I just gave this game a rental to see what it played like after the second patch, and it was, to my surprise, very fun. I lost with my Raiders to the Broncos 9-8 with 12 minute quarters and I would say 8/10 of the game felt very good. There was wonderful pacing, good, stiff competition all game long, and good stats for the most part. Kirk Morrison had 12 tackles, and their leading guy had 11--I love that! I haven't been able to have a defensive battle in Madden for ages. I was surprised to see that the CPU even missed a chip-shot FG--I've never seen that in Madden. The only things that seem a little off to me are the obvious: completion percentage and the running game. Cutler completed 80% against me and Russell 69%. I don't have a problem with Cutler shredding me, but 80% over 35+ passes is a bit much--I could see going 12-15 or something every now and again, but I'd love to see the completions toned down. And we all know Russel isn't going to hit 69%. It seems that completion percentages can be lowered with sliders, but I would love to see an adjustment to the simmed stats engine. I don't want to continue kicking the Robo QB horse, but I know Ian is a huge fan of realism (and this game is WAAAAY better than any other next-gen Madden, so kudos!), so a more reasonable bar should be set for stats. In Brady's super season he hit 68.9% of his passes. Montana and Young, two of the game's most accurate hit 70%, but only once apiece in two HOF careers. A very good season is 65%; last year's SB winning QB completed 56%, and even the new and improved version of Eli is sitting at 60%.

Trojan Man,
Glad to see you decided to give Madden a try. I haven't downloaded Patch #2 yet, but will today and am looking forward to playing. I've been spending my time with NCAA recently, and enjoying that as well.

[jvaccaro]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

one of the reasons that QB's are so accurate in video games is because there is never a "miscommunication" between the receiver and the QB. A majority of the time when you see a badly off target throw its because the QB and WR were thinking differently. Perhaps the WR broke off a route sooner than the QB expected or the QB read the defense so that the receiver should go outside but the receiver read the defense and cut inside, etc...

^^ this could be a way to utilize QB awareness...