Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

[SidVish]

Quote: Originally Posted by SageTheInfinite

1 thing's for sure, we've come a long way from Madden 06 on next gen. That's why I think EA/Tiburon is so proud of the game this year. Look how far its come. The only thing is that they started off so badly. Had they started with a solid foundation, who knows how far this series would be now.

Yeah it's not our fault that they started at such a low point known as 06. Lol. I think that video looks good but I need to see more gameplay video and if the turnover problem is fixed I think I might actually be picking this up.

[Rashad19]

Quote:

I see what you are saying, but they are just not going to do the scenario you described. It goes back to what I said in another thread. They have their own processes and that is not going to change. For one, from what I understand all of their animations are hard coded. Even the simply ones like DB backpedal. For them to do the situation you just described would take them ohh my gawd. Not to mention we wouldn't want it to be predetermined, we'd want there still to be some degree of novelty within that situation. And that's the benefit of euphoria I suppose. Developers wouldn't have to do all the work of hard coding animations, but of course some people are too big and proud for that.

I hear ya LBZrule!! They can hype this "New tackling engine" all they want to the unsuspecting consumer but it's not going to fly with me. I am throwing my blind dedication and belief in this Madden title out the window and assessing it honestly. The graphics are awesome, allowing us to see all our receivers is a step forward, stat overlays and play-by-play commentary is a plus, but the gameplay and player interaction I have seen so far is out dated/stale!! It's time for these developers and producers to take this game to the next level gameplay wise! I welcome the influx of information we are being provided but I refuse to take everything their feeding us as the gospel.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by nowitzki41

Yeah it's not our fault that they started at such a low point known as 06.

Exactly. Madden 06 should have never been released and IMO neither should have 07. Both were terrible for me. Had 08 been 06 minus the bugs I know I would be a little easier on EA. Who knows what 09 would be looking like now if that was the case. As many people have said tho, no matter how pretty you dress up a pig, it's still a pig, and Madden 06 was 1 ugly *** pig. Sadly for most of us, the closest shot we have at getting a more advanced NFL title is when the next crop of systems pop up, and even then EA will probably still be trying to dress up a pig, lol.

[JRod]

Quote: Originally Posted by SageTheInfinite

1 thing's for sure, we've come a long way from Madden 06 on next gen. That's why I think EA/Tiburon is so proud of the game this year. Look how far its come. The only thing is that they started off so badly. Had they started with a solid foundation, who knows how far this series would be now.

Sorry but it's taken two years to get to this point, where we can finally say it's a next gen football experience.

Except that it's really not next gen football experience.

The tackling engine just looks like they added more animations not really football tackling. The AI is mostly the same with tweaks every year. The playbooks are still straight out of the Sega Genesis days.

I'm seeing more innovation in Head Coach than I am madden. EA's biggest problem is that they don't know what they want Madden to be. Do they want it to be a sim or a casual sim to catch their beloved casual gamers. Since they don't know, this indecision shows in the quality of the game. Madden doesn't know what it is right now.

[Deltron]

Quote: Originally Posted by NYG_Meth

Ragdoll physics makes characters go limp. It was initially created to simulate death animations. NaturalMotion gives characters behaviors that cause the characters to act intelligently, looking out for themselves. For example, in a football game, a ball carrier with ragdoll physics, when tackled, will go limp, or if he's supposed to break the tackle, a pre-canned break-tackle animation will play. With NaturalMotion, depending on the angle and force behind the tackle, the ball carrier will react accordingly WITHOUT ANY pre-canned animation. I'm not too good at explaining this, but trust me, there's a HUGE difference between ragdoll and NaturalMotion. Maybe someone else can help me out...

I see what you're saying and keep in mind I've heard of NaturalMotion before, and I know it's a trademarked process which I wouldn't expect EA to mention by name. I think the main premise of my point was that the part of the blog which referenced ragdoll physics appeared to downplay its utility in an effort to prop up EA's improved processes involving motion captured animations.

From NaturalMotion's site:

"One can think of it as biology meeting robot control theory. euphoria integrates with a game's existing physics engine, which provides the basic body physics (commonly known as 'ragdoll physics'). euphoria adds life to the dead physics simulation."

So to me, NaturalMotion appears to fall under the category of ragdoll physics, albeit an definitely enhanced version. Yet, I think, EA, by broadly mentioning ragdoll physics as a different method of animation, attempted to take on some of the criticism about their animations and in turn subtly undermine newer animation systems that are coming to the forefront of football games.

[yamabushi]

Why does it not surprise me that 10ths of a second increase in speed, and some new animations (for one-on-one tackles only) on this out of date game engine get hyped and praised like the second coming?
In any other game this wouldnt even get mentioned.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by JRod

Sorry but it's taken two years to get to this point, where we can finally say it's a next gen football experience. Except that it's really not next gen football experience. The tackling engine just looks like they added more animations not really football tackling. The AI is mostly the same with tweaks every year. The playbooks are still straight out of the Sega Genesis days. I'm seeing more innovation in Head Coach than I am madden. EA's biggest problem is that they don't know what they want Madden to be. Do they want it to be a sim or a casual sim to catch their beloved casual gamers. Since they don't know, this indecision shows in the quality of the game. Madden doesn't know what it is right now.

LOL identity crisis. Although I'd take a different spin. They do know what they want the game to be. But what they want it to be is damn near impossible for it to be. They want it to be everything for everybody. They want it to be sim, casual sim, arcade ect. This eclecticism shows in the quality of the game.

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

LOL identity crisis. Although I'd take a different spin. They do know what they want the game to be. But what they want it to be is damn near impossible for it to be. They want it to be everything for everybody. They want it to be sim, casual sim, arcade ect. This eclecticism shows in the quality of the game.

I totally agree!