Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

[SageInfinite]

Yea there's still too many 1 on 1 tackles for a next gen football game. They do look improved tho. Also I understand the hit stick is supposed to deliver those hard hits, but those WWE style flying clotheslines and shoulder tackles have got to go EA, lol. Overall the player interaction just needs to be overhauled. They are going in the right direction tho. I still can't wait to play 09.

[Vikes1]

Maybe it's just me...but it did kinda look like overall, the players movements seemed more fluid than last year.

I agree with the statements about the "Flip tackles". I'm hoping their more of a rarity...than the norm. Pretty pleased though with what we're seeing.

[SteelerSpartan]

I don't know.....Im happy but Im not


Its definitely better then 08 but its still not in 2k5's league and certainly cant even begin to touch a Euphoria system.



I just hope all the damm "highlight hits" are toned down.....people who try and tackle that way in real life usually are riding the pine pony.

And nothing from FWP

Still holding out hope though

[Sef0r]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I saw exactly what the rep was referring to regarding momentum of the "victim". When the ball carrier had momentum, the tackle moved forward. When the tackler had the advantage, the tackle went backward.

This was in last year and the year before that.
None of this is new.
You must be refering to the specifics situations as follows:

@00.21 second mark a RB gets tackled and looks to fall forward for extra yards (last year).
@00.23 second mark the LB knocks runner on his a$$ (last year).

Quote: Originally Posted by Deltron

The explanation offered for how this is a new animation system doesn't really sell me on the fact that it is truly a new system. If anything it states that motion captured animations are still present, but they are 'physics informed' -- whatever that actually means. For my money, it sounds as if the motion capture animation code was simply optimized to be faster and do away with some of the delay. The article also didn't really delve into how suction tackling figures into the gameplay mechanic other than stating it occurred via stalling out one player's momentum while a canned tackling animation was being searched for. ..****nning backs like Barry Sanders simply couldn't run they they could in real life because the tackling animations almost always started to take over when they were within 3 yards of any defender.

Look at 00.37 second mark where LT is about to get tackled. If you have a way to watch frame by frame have a look at how LT goes from looking like he is going to run full speed to the outside before an animation takes over roughly 2 yards before the defender tackles him. That is what I like to call a "pre-determined tackle animation/interaction".



Lets be honest here, you can almost tell the outcome (i.e. the animation to be played) of a tackle/interaction before it happens. I've played Madden 2008 a lot and it didn't take me long playing the game to know what was going to happen to my RB almost everytime I ran with the ball and a defender was close by.


Why do they even bother telling us this crap? Its new? No it is NOT.
If they really didn't care about the hardcore sim gamers (who are in the minority) they would not be going into depth on most of this stuff. They know their game will sell on name alone. Yet the last few years have been spent on telling people very specific things that are suppose to make "SIM" fans love the game.

Message to Tiburon. Fire your marketing people and your financial controller. Get EA to loosen the purse strings so you can do what I am sure you've always wanted to do...make a new engine, not revamp the same crappy animation system thats been around since 2002 (Madden PS2). PS: I am impressed with what you have done with the graphics this year.

NB: Please don't attack SteelerSpartan for his comments, I can understand what he is talking about with the 2k5 game. But SteelerSpartan, you realise that they had the same animation system. Motion captured interactions. Madden 2008 showed it could do similar break out animations to 2k5 aswell. Hell, even all pro 2k8 had the same system so really neither developer has gone away from what they know..."what they are comfortable with"


Disclaimer:
* Not a 2k Fanboy
* Not an EA *****
* A realist
* Loves NFL

[WDOgF0reL1fe]

Looked good. But what about at 55 seconds? That kinda looked like an explosion animation...

Doesnt matter, im still gonna buy it!

[BrianFifaFan]

I am happy that they've brought in a guy who worked with Fia and Homecourt. Now I don't know if he worked with the guys on Fifa08, but if he did, that is the best animated EA Sports title to date. And I can see the differences that the new animation system has made. Now I gotta agree with the guys who are rightly bringing up where it is still the same tackling AI with a animation upgrade. Since they've made it know that they have given up trying to implement In-game saves to tune instead, they really need to optimize the tackling/defensive pursuit AI. The fundimental problem is that it's too many 1 on 1 scenarios where the defenders have to get in line to take their turn at the ball carrier. They have to get it where 5 guys can all converge at the same point of attack at the same time. On the vid I actually saw where there were guys who had converged in the area in a realistic looking way. But they have to stand around or seem distracted by their offensive counterparts that are nearby. They are supposed to ALL go get the ball carrier. But it seems they can't. Of course Tiburon finally figured out how to get 2 man tackles right last year. (won't go there...)

I think at my "sim" anal heart, this is the kind of approach that Madden takes that just erks me. Football is a team sport, not a glorified set of 1 on 1's. Most decent power runners are going to win those battles. OK they seem to have gotten it where a runner can break those tackles now. But it just amplifies how bad Madden's team defensive AI is. Things like the fact that a safety comes all the way over to get in the conga line on a breakaway run instead of heading on an angle for the pylon just looks terrible and "high school." And that you can easily break the pocket because the DL can't get out of the suction block and seems to only be able to focus on the battle with the OL. He's always supposed to be in pursuit of the ball and has to read and react. Same thing with LB's and safeties. This is why they made play action. To confuse those reads. Otherwise the D will have a natural advantage.

There's just so much of Madden that is flawed. Down and distance don't matter. Fundimental coaching and football strategy don't. They have jukes to make every player into another Barry Sanders. And WWE-style hit sticks. You don't need all of that if you get the basics right. With proper blocking you can have the time for a decent receiver to get open. And with proper defensive AI you don't need every play to be a Ray Lewis highlight film. Please, I don't want everything now. Just use the time remaining to figure out how to get those guys from 2 yards away to where they need to be at the point of attack, and I'll be happy. And yes I know that they can't truly gang tackle yet..... But get it as close to "real" as possible.

[AJ21476]

Its the same every year and everyone gets hype only to be disappointed when the game comes out. The real truth on the game comes out about a week into the games release where you will see all types of EA Sucks threads.

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by AJ21476

Its the same every year and everyone gets hype only to be disappointed when the game comes out. The real truth on the game comes out about a week into the games release where you will see all types of EA Sucks threads.

I don't think the game sucks, per se. It's more that when they do something good it just tends to show the warts that much more. And with seeing how many other games this gen showing such advances, Madden looks more and more dated. And then the glitched and bugs start to show up after release. That's when the mud starts to fly. If you can't make it "new" at least don't send it broken!!!!