“Ask any NBA fan who the best team ever was, and probably about 90 percent will say one of two possibilities: the 1986 Boston Celtics or the 1996 Chicago Bulls. “
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...boston-celtics
I think the 86 celtic's was the best team ever put together. They were the deepest team ever assembled, they could play any style, best passing team ever,out-rebounded opponents by five a game, had a legit superstar, five hall of famers on the team four would be named 50 greatest ever, best defense,best offense, best front court ever,great coach, could use the tallest team lineup in history and play smallball, most balanced versatile team ever,dominated playoffs,could beat you with many different players, no weaknesses, led league in 3pt %, played best against the best teams, they were the best team of decade that was at strongest league has ever been. They were so good bird and mchale would play halves or even entire games left handed or only using bank shots.
I want to compare they to the 96 bulls simply because they won more games than any team in history 72-10, so many automatically assume they were the best.
Short bio of players
86 Celtics used Mostly used a 8 man rotation
Larry bird[ needs none]
Dennis johnson
Who many consider the best back court defender of all time. *NBA champion (1979, '84, '86); NBA Finals MVP (1979); All-NBA First Team (1981); All-NBA Second Team (1980); All-Defensive First Team (1979-83, '87); All-Defensive Second Team (1984-86); Five-time NBA All-Star 1979-82, '85) elected into Hall of fame.
“His quick hands and feet made him a constant threat to strip the ball from opponents. He always seemed to be in the middle of the action. He could post up, crash the boards for rebounds and tip-ins, hit from the outside and lead the fast break. And he could pass with the best of the league's playmakers. “
http://www.nba.com/history/players/djohnson_bio.html
*In*Sports Illustrated, teammate Bird, who was not known for lightly tossing around compliments, called Johnson "the best I've ever played with."
“ask any scorer who the best defender they played against was, its DJ”
former nba scoring champ George gervin
''the best backcourt defender of all time.''*
December 1991, Magic Johnson
Bill walton
Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1993); NBA champion (1977, '86); NBA Finals MVP (1977); NBA MVP (1978); All-NBA First Team (1978); All-NBA Second Team (1977); NBA All-Defensive Team (1977, '78); NBA All-Star (1977, '78); Sixth Man Award (1986); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996) led league in rebounding and blocks in 78 season led league in def rating in 78 and 86 led league in defensive rebounding rating 4 time and rebounding rating 2 times.
Considered by many the best passing center to ever play the game.
“Boston had combined the greatest passing center with the greatest passing forward in the game. The result was an exhibition of ball movement and team play, led by Walton and Bird, that left the rest of the NBA in the dust.”
http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19851986.html
a well rounder player who could score,rebound,defend and pass
"Bill Russell was a great shotblocker. Wilt Chamberlain was a great offensive player," Dr. Jack Ramsay, Walton's coach in Portland, told*Sport*magazine. "But Walton can do it all."
great b-ball IQ and leadership
*"I was with the Boston Celtics when Russell came into the league," Lakers Coach Bill Sharman told the*Los Angeles Times. "Walton is the same type of player. Extremely intelligent -- but besides that, he has tremendous basketball instinct."
Bill Walton is considered one of the greatest centers in the NBA history. When healthy, he drew comparisons to the likes of Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain.
He was an excellent scorer, passer, rebounder, shot blocker, defender. Simply said, he was a dominant player on both ends, and had incredible leadership skills.
He's generally regarded as the best big man passers and arguably had the finest skill set for any seven-footer in the history of the NBA. The only thing that slowed him down were injuries
Ranking the Greatest Centers in NBA History
Bill walton picked as 7th best center of all time 2010.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...history/page/5
Scott wedman
2 time champion, 2 time all star, 1980 all nba second team defensive award , averaged carer high 19 points a game 2 years in a row in 80 and 81.
Great outside shooter and tough defender.
Robert parish
Height:*7-1
Weight:*250 lbs.
Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (2003); NBA champion (1981, '84, '86, '97); All-NBA Second Team (1982); All-NBA Third Team (1989); Nine-time All-Star; One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996). top 10 rebound and blocks in NBA history top 20 scoring.
Parish, whose signature shot was a high trajectory jumper that seemed to kiss the banners at Boston Garden before finding its way to the basket,
"He's probably the best medium-range shooting big man in the history of the game," said Hall of Famer*Bill Walton, who was Parish's backup in the Celtics' 1986 championship season.
A great center who could score,rebound and defend. Numbers would have been hire had he played on a lesser team when at 35 [with bird out] and more touches available he averaged 18.6 on 57% shooting and over 12 rebounds a game earning all NBA third team.
Short highlight video
http://www.nba.com/history/legends/r...ish/index.html
Kevin mchale
6-11* 225 pounds
:*Three-time NBA Champion; All-NBA First Team (1987); All-Defensive First Team (1986-88); All-Defensive Second Team (1983, 89-90); Seven-time All-Star (1984, 86-91); NBA All-Rookie Team (1981); Two-time Sixth Man of the Year (1984-85); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996) ranks ninth in the NBA in career field goal percentage (.554).*
If ever there were a player who possessed the ideal physique for the game of basketball, it was Kevin McHale. With his incredibly long arms and legs, McHale presented an unforgettable image on the hardwood.
Seen by some still today as possessing the best and most varied post moves of any nba player in history
"He became the most difficult low-post player to defend -- once he made the catch -- in the history of the league," contended former NBA coach Hubie Brown in the Boston Globe. "He was totally unstoppable because of his quickness, diversification of moves and the long arms that gave him an angle to release the ball over a taller man or more explosive jumper."
"Back in the day, guarding Kevin McHale in the low post was correctly referred to as being in The Torture Chamber. This was primarily due to McHale's towering height (6'11"), precise footwork, and pinpoint shooting ability. It also helped that McHale was assembled at the Freaky Body Parts Depot.
He had the arms of a 15-foot man, and they either didn't have any joints, or the joints swiveled in every conceivable direction. Seriously, his arms would twist and bend in ways that no human limb ever should. It's a little creepy. Okay, a lot creepy." (Courtesy of basketbawful.com.)
“The best forwards ever were Bird and Kevin McHale. McHale was the second-best low-post player I ever played against, after Kareem. Bird was the best player I ever played with.”
Bill walton
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/questions/billwalton.html
“Mchale was the best power forward in history until Duncan came along” “ He was unstoppable in the post”
Steven A smith First take is lebron better than larry bird
Bad boy pistons center john salleys all time top 5
Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Hakeem Olajuwon Kevin McHale.
Charles barkely said he was the hardest player to guard he ever played against.
“mchale and olajuwan as good footwork as NBA ever seen”
Doc rivers
McHale ranks ninth in the NBA in career field goal percentage (.554).*
*McHale sprouted from 5-9 to his full 6-11 during his high school years
The 1986-87 season was McHale's best, as he averaged 26.1 ppg and set career highs in rebounding (9.9 rpg) and assists (2.6 apg). He captured the first of two consecutive field-goal percentage titles and became the first player ever to shoot better than .600 from the floor (.604) and .800 from the free throw line (.836) in the same season. At season's end, he was named to the All-NBA First Team
By this time McHale was at the peak of his skills. He had developed a low-post game that featured many moves not previously seen in the NBA or anywhere else. McHale had a grab bag of drop steps, head fakes, pump fakes, baby jump hooks, shovel shots and fadeaways that confounded even the best defenders. Anyone who drew McHale as an assignment was in trouble. He had no preferred spot. He could set up on either the right or left box. He could take the turnaround from either the baseline or the middle and he had extraordinary range.
http://www.nba.com/history/players/mchale_bio.html
Danny ainge
2 time nba champion , 88 nba all star, led league in 3pt% , well rounded player.
Jerry sichting
1 time champion former starter and double digit scorer with Indian before coming to Celtics as backup, provided physical defense, shot career high 57% and .375% from 3pt during the 95-96 season.
8586 Celtics
1985-86 Boston Celtics: Sweet Sixteen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_XF_NxMrMw
1985-1986 BOSTON CELTICS
Regular-season record: 67-15 Including playoffs they went 82-18 .820.
Postseason record: 15-3
Scoring: Larry Bird, 25.8 ppg
Rebounds: Larry Bird, 9.8 rpg
Assists: Larry Bird, 6.8 apg
Coach: K.C. Jones
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1986.html
"Right now, there's no doubt that Boston is a much better team,"
Magic Johnson said in February 1986 after the Celtics beat the Los Angeles Lakers in the Forum to extend their record to 41-9.
http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19851986.html
The Celtics had five Hall of Famers on their roster, four of whom were named among the 50 greatest players in NBA history
They had the most wins of any team in the 80's, that was the best decade in the nba history.
Led the league in 3-point field goal shooting percentage.
Led the league in defensive field goal percentage.
Finished second in the league in assists per game.
Finished second in the league in field goal percentage.
Finished the regular season with an improbable 19-2 record against teams with 49 wins or better.
Best front court ever
There is no question the NBA has been dominated by the frontcout through history with very few exceptions. As far as I am aware you wont find anyone argue there has ever been a better front court than the 86 c's. Parish [] HOF, top 50] Mchale [HOF top 50] Bird [HOF top 50] and sixth man of the year Bill walton [HOF top 50].
“It seems absurd to suggest any team could ever possess a better front line than the ’86 Celtics. “
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...boston-celtics
The Celtics won 67 games in '86 behind the best frontcourt ever assembled -- Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish and Bill Walton -- and followed it up by stampeding through the playoffs in 15 games. And few teams will ever have five players averaging at least 15 a game in the playoffs, as Boston's legendary quintet did in this postseason.
“The 1986 Boston Celtics were the best basketball team of all-time, [picked 96 bulls as third best ever] led by a video game-like frontcourt with four of the NBA's 50 greatest players ever: Larry Bird, Robert Parish, Kevin McHale and Bill Walton. ….This Celtics team would beat any team ever because they had unbelievable size and skill in the paint, an excellent leader and scorer in Larry Bird"
NBA Power Rankings: The 1986 Celtics, 1996 Bulls and the 10 Best NBA Teams Ever
"It had the greatest front line in NBA history, the greatest back up center in NBA history, and most importantly, had an almost perfect record at Boston Garden.”
Boston Globe writer Peter May shared in his book The Last Banner
Boston garden
Boston also set the NBA mark for most home victories in one season, finishing 50–1 (including playoffs) in 48 games in the Boston Garden and three games in Hartford, Connecticut.
passing
They are widely considered the best passing team ever, with the best passing center ever Walton,and best forward passer ever Bird.
“The answer became apparent just a few games into the 1985-86 schedule: Boston had combined the greatest passing center with the greatest passing forward in the game. The result was an exhibition of ball movement and team play, led by Walton and Bird, that left the rest of the NBA in the dust.”
http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19851986.html
“The acquisition of Walton, like that of versatile, team-oriented guard Dennis Johnson two years earlier, seemed to bring out the best in Larry Bird, the ultimate team-first player. Walton's great passing skills enhanced those of Bird, and when they were on the court together the ball would move from player to player with speed and precision till an open shooter was found. “
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2004/chal...ltics1986.html
Best passing team EVER - 1986 Celtics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrRnWEt3Z4HYPERLINK "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrRnWEt3Z4&feature=related"&HYPERLINK "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrRnWEt3Z4&feature=related"feature=relate d
Defense
mchale,johnson,bird,walton,wedman all one time or another won a all NBA defensive award. The Celtics used for the most part a eight man rotation, the 3 "weak spots"" were robert parish a down low defensive stopper parish who is 10th all time blocks, Ainge who was originally drafted and used as a defensive specialist by bill fitch and only got minutes in defnsive situations [only later became know for his offence] and sichting who would never be called a stopper but was physical for his size and could stay in front of his man better than any Celtic, Ask isiah thomas about him on defense he hated him.
Led the league in defensive field goal percentage.
Led league in Def Rtg: 102.6 1st of 23
Boston led the league in rebounding with 46.4 rpg, nearly five per game more than its opponents.
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2004/chal...ltics1986.html
versatility
They were impossible to guard as they could score from so many ways and players. They could always pick out and exploit the other teams weakness. They could play any style needed to win.
And few teams will ever have five players averaging at least 15 a game in the playoffs, as Boston's legendary quintet did in this postseason.
One could debate this all they want, but it’s highly improbable that the league has ever seen or that it will ever see another team as balanced as the 1985-86 Boston Celtics. They essentially shut down their opponents, dominated the boards, and had little to no trouble putting points on the board.Their ability to convert from just about anywhere and everywhere on the court made them one of the greatest scoring teams ever. Consider that they shot 50.8 percent from the field (second in the league in that season), 35.1 percent from 3-point range (best in the league) and 79.4 percent from the free throw line (second best in the league) and it becomes hard to argue against it.
“Dirk Diggler Factor. In other words, could they adapt to every conceivable style? The answer is yes. They even had one wrinkle that mortified opponents: a supersized lineup with a frontline of Parish, McHale and Walton, then Bird playing guard on offense (which could happen because McHale the Freak could defend almost any two-guard). Every time they played those four guys together at once, you moved to the edge of your seat. On the flip, they could also handle smallball with Bird-DJ-Ainge-Wedman-McHale, or even Sichting in Wedman’s place and DJ (Dennis Johnson) playing small forward. You could not throw an opponent at them from any point in history that they wouldn’t have handled
http://www.warriorsworld.net/2011/08...oston-celtics/
“The 1986 Boston Celtics were the best basketball team of all-time, [picked 96 bulls as third best ever] led by a video game-like frontcourt with four of the NBA's 50 greatest players ever: Larry Bird, Robert Parish, Kevin McHale and Bill Walton. ….This Celtics team would beat any team ever because they had unbelievable size and skill in the paint, an excellent leader and scorer in Larry Bird, and a brilliant pair of guards who complemented each other perfectly. “
NBA Power Rankings: The 1986 Celtics, 1996 Bulls and the 10 Best NBA Teams Ever
“The 1985-86 Celtics could beat a team inside. It could beat a team outside. It could beat a team with defense. It had the greatest front line in NBA history, the greatest back up center in NBA history, and most importantly, had an almost perfect record at Boston Garden.”
Boston Globe writer Peter May shared in his book The Last Banner
Legit clutch superstar
Larry bird was a legit superstar and arguable the greatest clutch player ever, all great teams need that go to guy in the clutch and the 86 c's had that in Larry.
Rankings
Bill Simmons picking the ’86 Celtics as the greatest basketball team ever in The Book of Basketball. Here is his top 10 in reverse order:
10. The 1990-91 Chicago Bulls
9. The 1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers
8. The 1982-83 Philadelphia 76ers
7. The 1970-71 Milwaukee Bucks
6. The 1996-97 Chicago Bulls
5. The 2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers
4. The 1988-89 Detroit Pistons
3. The 1986-87 Los Angeles Lakers
2. The 1995-96 Chicago Bulls
1.The 1985-86 Boston Celtics
In May of 2004 the NBA.com Finals Challenge panel of 15 former players, coaches and current/past media members supported the underlying theme of this site: The 1995-96 Chicago Bulls are not the Greatest team in NBA History. In a 9-6 majority the panel chose the 1985-86 Celtics to defeat the 1995-96 Bulls when the two teams were matched up in the semifinal round of the challenge.
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2004/chal...ltics1986.html
Former Boston Globe writer Peter May shared in his book The Last Banner his top five teams of all time. Here they are in reverse order:
5. The 1970-71 Milwaukee Bucks
4. The 1966-67 Philadelphia 76ers
3. The 1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers
2. The 1986-87 Los Angeles Lakers
1. The 1985-86 Boston Celtics
The ’96 Bulls failed to make his cut because he feels that teams that emerged during the 1990s benefited from expansion and diluted rosters, which means that they essentially feasted off of weak teams. Instead he chose the Celtics team that won the title in 1986 and added this about them:
“The 1985-86 Celtics could beat a team inside. It could beat a team outside. It could beat a team with defense. It had the greatest front line in NBA history, the greatest back up center in NBA history, and most importantly, had an almost perfect record at Boston Garden.”
http://www.warriorsworld.net/2011/08...oston-celtics/
Larry Bird was on ESPN Radio Dallas this week and he says, flat out, his '86 team is the best he's ever seen.
“We were gooood. It was the best team I have ever seen. We were strong; we had a lot of big guys; we had guards; we felt we were a smart team. And it was all because of Scotty Wedman, Jerry Sichting and Bill Walton coming off our bench. We were deep. It was just a good team, it was easy to play for, and I knew when we started training camp if we stayed healthy we were probably going to win a championship. I never had that feeling before. We won a lot of games and we took care of business when the playoffs came around.”
Could they have won more?
Bird would play left handed like in a game against Portland. The whole game even in overtime of a close game, Boston almost lost and bird was still playing left hand until finally KC Jones yelled at bird, he said use your right hand dammit, c's won.
Larry bird played the first 30 games with back injury and his numbers show it, mchale played only 68 games. wedman was injured in playoffs.
Bill Walton of the 85-86 Celtics said bird and McHale would mess around during games like play the whole second half left handed many times or only shoot off the backboard,bird once played a entire game left handed against Portland. He said they could had they wanted to win 72 games in the 80's.
80's were more competitive with better teams compared to the 90's
"We could not have won 70 games playing against 1980's teams."
-Dennis Rodman, starting power forward for the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls
The 80's teams were the best deepest teams in NBA history, the most talent in the league [ had most HOF and 50 greatest players] at same time and fewer therefore deeper teams. The mid 80's were seen as the “golden years” a time when so many great players were in the league playing at the same time, no decade before or after has had so many great players.The 90's were watered down with expansion and loss of large numbers of superstars. In the they had multiple stars on each team
“Had the ’96 Bulls played in ’86, there’s no way they would have won 72 games.
”
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...boston-celtics
Depper teams/ watered down 90's expansion league
In the 80's with less teams, there were multiple great players on the same team, not so in the 90's. The 90's lost much of the talent of the golden area in 80's [Bird,Magi,Kareem,Dr j etc] and added multiple teams that watered down the league.
"When I played, it was mostly one superstar per team,"
Ewing said. On playing in 90's vs jordan
http://news.yahoo.com/balanced-nba-f...5339--spt.html
This shows how the 80's teams were deeper than 90's
85-86 Celtics
Players who have won Playoff MVP award: 3 (Bird, Johnson, Walton)
Players on "50 Greatest" list: 4 (Bird, Parish, McHale, Walton)
Players who have made All Star Team during career: 7 (Ainge, Bird, Johnson, McHale, Parish, Walton, Wedman)
Players who have made the All-Star team within 3 years of the team's great season: 5 (Bird, McHale, Parish, Johnson, Ainge)
95-96 bulls
Players who have won Playoff MVP award: 1 (Jordan)
Players on "50 Greatest" list: 2 (Jordan, Pippen)
Players who have made All Star Team during their career: 3 (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman) Players who have made the All-Star team within 3 years of the team's great season: 3 (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman
Miami Heat star LeBron James... thinks that the league would see an increase in the quality of its play if it contracted from its current 30 teams, reports ESPN.
“Hopefully the league can figure out one way where it can go back to the ’80s where you had three or four All-Stars, three or four superstars on the same team,” James said in an interview with the network. “The league was great. It wasn’t as watered down as it is [now].”
http://newsone.com/entertainment/spo...ds-downsizing/
While the 90's became worse in mid 90's, even looking at the 90-91 season the Celtics won 56 games that year with a roster and major injuries to bird/mchale, that could not even come close to the 86-87 Celtics that won just 3 more games
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1991.html 91 roster
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1987.html 87 roster
Jazz of 80's vs jazz of 90's
80's stockton/malone vs 97 and 98 stockton/malone both great players in both decades. Both getting old [33,34 and 34,35]but we will call even.
Other forward spot
80's- thurl bailey a 6'11 quick forward averaged over 19 a game for utah in the 87 and 88 seasons.
90's- Byron Russel 7.9 a game for career
bailey better low post defender,rebounder,scorer ,more assist per game much better.
center
80's- 7'4 275 pound mark eaton best shot blocker of modern basketball. Once averaged 5.6 a game for a season [record] career 3.5 [record].
90's-greg ostertag-nuff said
80's wins hands down
from 85-93 the jazz record against jordan with eaton in lineup was 9-7. The jazz in the 80's never made it past the semis and lost first round in 86,87,89 and 90. The 90's lesser jazz, made it to finals.
The NBA was much stronger in 80's than in 1995-96. For one thing there were no easy wins against expansion teams. Second, the league has experienced a steady decline in field goal percentage. This decline is due to a lack of good young shooters coming out of college. Overall the Eastern Conference was so weak in 1995-96 that the Cleveland Cavaliers won 47 games with Terell Brandon, Dan Majerle, Tyrone Hill & Danny Ferry in their starting line up.
The NBA weakened considerably throughout most of the 1990's thanks two 6 new teams being added between 1988 and 1995. Consider this: in 1997 & 1998 the Utah Jazz made the NBA Finals with a 2-star team that was no better than their solid 2-star clubs from the 1980's who never made it out of the second round. The number of superstars has remained constant. The talent pool did not grow to match the 72 new roster spots and it produced some downright horrible teams in the 1995-96 Eastern Conference for the Bulls to beat up on.
In contrast, the 1986-87 Lakers (65-17) faced a league where there had been only one new team added during the previous 9 years (The Dallas Mavericks in 1980) and in 1984 & 1985 the NBA had what many people feel were the two best drafts in its history. Among the young talent that came from those drafts included Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Sam Perkins, Chris Mullin & Joe Dumars.
Here is the breakdown:
Year & Great Team Years Since Last Expansion
1986-87 Lakers 6
1985-86 Celtics 5
1999-00 Lakers 4
1982-83 Sixers 2(1 Team in 1980)
1991-92 Bulls 2(2 Teams in 1989)
1971-72 Lakers 1
1966-67 Sixers 0 (1 Team)
1988-89 Pistons 0 (2 Teams)
1995-96 Bulls 0 (2 Teams)
1970-71 Bucks 0 (3 Teams)
http://pw1.netcom.com/~bjalas/basket.../expansion.htm
Bird,Magic,DR J all agree that the 96 bulls were playing in a watered down 90's and would not have won against the top 80's teams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LdNq...eature=related
“Quality of competition is huge. The ’96 Bulls are known as one of the best teams ever because they won 72 games, but Boston won only five fewer in a much better NBA”
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...boston-celtics
Former Boston Globe writer Peter May shared in his book The Last Banner his top five teams of all time. The ’96 Bulls failed to make his cut because he feels that teams that emerged during the 1990s benefited from expansion and diluted rosters, which means that they essentially feasted off of weak teams. Instead he chose the Celtics team that won the title in 1986.
A online comparison picks 86 Celtics as best ever 96 bulls as third best because of lack of competition in 90's and no center and poor bench.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6...nba-teams-ever
“Some people promote Jordan and Bill Russell as the greatest because of all the championships they won. While their totals are more impressive than Johnson, there are few that doubt that Jordan’s Bulls would have a tough time getting six rings in six seasons in the more competitive 1980s or that Russell’s Celtics would struggle to win as often today. Getting five championships in the 1980s is just as impressive as the runs of the 1960s Celtics and 1990s Bulls, if not more impressive.”
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...reater/page/10
Most talent at one time in the 80's "golden area"
Most superstars, more 50 greatest players, more all time greats playing in the 80's than any other decade in NBA history, known as the golden age of the NBA. 90's watered down by expansion and lack of legit all stars and superstars.
The 1986-87 season was also known as the "Golden Era" of the NBA. The 1987 NBA season featured up to 20 Hall of Fame players such as Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, James Worthy, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley, Akeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Alex English, Patrick Ewing, Adrian Dantley, Joe Dumars, and Dennis Rodman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986%E2%80%9387_NBA_season
There was no expansion in 1986. That was the league at its apex. Larry, Magic, Ewing, Jordan, Dominique, Dr. J, Kareem, Drexler, Dream, Isiah... all among the greatest of all time at their positions. All of them in the league at the same time. Go look at the All Star and All NBA rosters (scroll to the bottom). Look at the legends on those teams.
“He was able to dominate the NBA during its "golden age."
talking of Larry bird in the 80's
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...he-80s/page/26
The NBA was stacked in 1985-86. And the Celtics won 67 games. SIXTY SEVEN. Only five fewer wins than the vaunted Bulls.
In 1996? Vin Baker was an All Star. Juwan Howard. Penny Hardaway. Glen Rice. Some good players, but no sustained greatness. A lot of those guys were having good seasons, sure, but most of these guys will fade into oblivion.
http://www.redsarmy.com/home/2011/06...re-better.html
The Celtics had to face the 76ers of Dr. J, the Lakers of Magic-Kareem, and the Pistons of Isiah. Who did the Bulls face? The Trail Blazers? Sonics? Utah Jazz? Sorry, those teams certainly don’t match up with the Celtics’ competition. You know, the 1983-84 Lakers had four future Hall of Famers? Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Bob McAdoo, and James Worthy. The Celtics beat that Laker team, too. How many future Hall of Famers did the 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics have? ONE (Gary Payton). It’s no surprise to me that the Bulls didn’t become dominant until the competition had either gotten old or had disintegrated. Remember, it took the Bulls four years to finally get past the Pistons, and only then because the Detroit was older and hobbled by injuries.
http://larrylegend.wordpress.com/case-for-larry-bird/
“The late 1990s and early 2000s was one of the driest talent runs the NBA has ever seen, and it really started in 1996. The Celtics, meanwhile, played during the league’s golden era of talent.[80's] “
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...boston-celtics
“If Jordan's Bulls played in the 80's, they wouldn't have won six championships The 80's were the toughest era in NBA history”
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...in-nba-history
“Bird played in a much more competitive and physical era of basketball” [80's].
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...istory/page/11
“Larry bird was the best player in the league when it was at a higher level [80's]”
Michael Smith comparing lebron and bird Better Player in his PRIME: LeBron James or Larry Bird?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHvwJla9BbI
How they match up
the teams
Boston
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1986.html
Chicago
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1996.html
Not only do I think the 86'c were a better team, I think in a head to head the makeups favor boston. Boston had the best frontcourt ever assembled, there is no way luc longley and bill wennigton could stop them. The 96 bulls did not face a dominate frontcourt or center. The combination ofparish,mchale,walton could not be stooped by the bulls big men.
86 celts are simply the deeper more talented team. They match up very well against the bulls the best front court ever assembled against luc longely and bill wennigton?. The 86 c's had a great bench and could go deep unlike the bulls.
8 man rotations- both teams mostly used only 8 players here is how they match up.
PG Dennis Johnson- Ron Harper
SG Danny Ainge- Micheal Jordan
SF Larry Bird- Scottie Pipen
PF Kevin Mchale- Dennis Rodman
C Robert Parish- Luc Longley
Bench
PG/SG Jerry Sichting- Steve Kerr
SG/SF/PF Scott Wedman- Toni Kukoc
PF/C Bill Walton- Bill Wennigton
A quick matchup shows that the Celtics have the better of 4/5 starters johnson vs harper- Bird vs pipen mchale vs rodman parish vs longley. And the better bench Walton-wennigton large boston advantage sichting/kerr even wedman/kukoc slight bulls advantage.
Closer look at matchups
Boston defense
Chicago scoring threats 10 points plus
Jordan 30.4
Pipen 19.4
Kukoc 13.1
PG Harper 7.4 ppg .467% 2.6 ast – Guarded by Danny ainge
Ainge was a good defender but not a great defender, he never won any all nba awards, but was originally drafted and played as a defensive specialist by Bill fitch, he only really played during defensive positions and situations. Harper having a two inch advantage would likely do no better or worse than his average against ainge.
SG Jordan 30.4 ppg .495 % 4.3 ast- guarded by Dennis johnson
DJ a 9 time all NBA defensive player 6 time first team, was as good as anyone guard in history to contain jordan.
“Ask any scorer they will say Dennis Johnson”
Former NBA scoring champ George gervin when asked who the best defender he faced was said
''the best backcourt defender of all time.''
December 1991, Magic Johnson
I see DJ as similar to gary payton, both 6'4 dj had alittel more size, both multiple all nba defenders. In the 96 finals game 4 when seattle switched payton on to jordan and won 2/3 games. He held jordan to 6/19 .316% 23 points 11/22 .500% 26 points and 5/19 .263% 22 points. Over three games with payton on him 23.7ppg .367% .111 3pt%.
DJ would make jordan work to get his, but no one could ever stop Jordan, dj could take jordan 1v1 but jordan would score his average if they were to do so, but would not need a double. If they do double, jordan must work extra hard just to get his average, likely his shooting would take a small hit against DJ as well, but in the end jordan finds a way. Unless what happens when payton was on jordan happens, than the bulls would be in allot of trouble, but jordan would find a way I think.
SF Pipen 19.4 .463% 5.9 ast [ playoffs 16.9 ppg .390%]-guarded by Kevin mchale
Mchale had the longest arms in NBA history [model at hall of fame] could guard 3 positions, c,pf,sf. His extremely long arms allowed him to back off faster players tacking away drive and negating first step while still be able to use his length to contest the outside jump shot, his defensive abilities and long arms earned him 6 all defensive player awards and 3 first team [such as in 86] . He would use his length and height advantage to get at pipens shot and block shots, mchale in 85-86 pre foot injury still had speed and guarded faster high scoring sf such as worthy, Dominique Wilkins, Bernard king etc Given pipens numbers in the 96 post season 16.9 ppg .390% shooting, [ and that mchale held MVP runner up wilkins in 86 playoffs to 24 ppg on .398% regular season avg of 30.3 on 46%] its fair to say his numbers would diminish sleight against A all nba first team defender like mchale, something he did not face in playoffs. He would still be able to create offense and play making but at a slight reduced rate from regular season averages, he would also be able to score in transition.
PF Rodman 5.5 ppg .480% 5.6 org 2.5 ast - Guarded by Robert Parish
Rodman no threat at creating offense, his biggest threat was offensive rebounds, giving him and others second chance opportunities. 7 foot Robert parish was a great rebounder and would do as good a job as any trying to keep rodman off boards. But rodman would be best rebounder in series and would get to the offensive baord, his put backs and offensive rebounds if anything would be slightly reduced given his 7 foot hall of fame 50 greatest player counterpart Robert parish.
C Longely 9.1 ppg .482% 1.9 ast – guarded by Larry Bird
Bird would often guard the opposing center if they were of little or no threat as with longley. Bird a 3 time all nba defender would be allowed to wonder off longley and do what he does best, help defend. If the bulls went to longley with size advantage on bird in post, I think the c's live with that, if that was case longleys numbers would go up, but that means less shots for jordan and others. If for some reason longley goes off [what is chances of that] a switch with parish could be done. Bird was a far better rebounder than longley 9.8 vs 5.1 and was best sf rebounder ever [save maybe baylor] and would be able to keep him off boards.
Bench
Kerr 8.4 506% 2.3 ast – guarded by Jerry scihting
Sichting who would never be called a stopper but was physical for his size and could stay in front of his man better than any Celtic, Ask Isiah thomas about him on defense he hated him. This would not do much good against kerr a 3pt specialist. Kerr would have a 2 inch height advantage and his numbers would likely be slightly up. His numbers dropped in playoffs especially from 3pt, but a deadly shooter no less.
Toni kukoc .490% 13.1 ppg 3.5 ast [ playoffs 10.8 ppg on .391%]- guarded by Scott wedman
Kukoc was a matchup nightmare for opposing players given his great shooting and height 6'10. His numbers dropped in playoffs to and could not hit a three. But a offensive threat no less. Wedman was a great defender and former all nba defender but at 6'7 was giving 3 inches to kukoc. Kukoc would likely get his averages against wedman a good defender, but smaller.
Wennigton 5.3 ppg .493% .6 ast – guarded by bill walton
wennigton offered no threat on offense and would be guarded by former muti all nba first team defender walton. Wennigton shut down. Walton led league in defensive rating in 85-86.
Walton's "Defensive Rating" made him the number one over-all NBA defender for the 1985-86 season, just as the statistic tells us he was during his 1977-78 MVP campaign.
Conclusion
Other than jordan Bulls would find it very,very hard to score, there 2 main offensive threats [pipen/jordan] would both have all nba defenders on them, the third kukoc off bench would have a former all nba defender on him. The bulls frontcourt would offer no offensive threat to the c's. Bird would be on easy defensive assignments allowing him to do what he does best help defend. Kukoc and kerr would both be able to score off the bench, but neither with a mismatch that could continually be counted on for big numbers, but would add much needed scoring off bench. It is likely that pipen would struggle against mchale given his playoff numbers and all nba defender on him. The only place the bulls could call a mismatch would be jordan/johnson, and DJ was arguably the best backcourt defender in nba history.
Boston offense
Boston scoring threats 10 plus a game
Bird 25.8
mchale 21.3
parish 16.1
johnson 15.6
ainge 10.7
In playoffs Boston had 5 players average 15 plus a game.
PG Johnson 15.6 ppg .455% 5.8 ast – guarded by jordan
Jordan a great defender [multiple all nba first team awards] could all but shut down johnson 1v1, however jordan loved to rome and double down in post leaving his man, johnson in his carer averaged better against jordan just for this reason. He would not be a go to option to create with jordan on him, but would take advantage of jordan leaving to help post. DJ was also clutch in everyway, coming up big in big games and hitting big shots. If jordan stays on him his numbers greatly reduced, if he leaves for steals/double, johnson scores his career average against jordan, so his numbers go slightly up.
SG Ainge 10.7 ppg [playoffs 15.7] .504% 5.1 ast guarded by harper
Harper was a good defender,but not a elite defender and had no defensive awards, but was long and had 2 inch height advantage. Ainge does no better or worse than average. Ainge still scores off outside shots from kickouts and drive to lane when open. He would have trouble creating from nothing against harper that would slightly reduce numbers, but in 86 that was not his role.
SF Bird 25.8 ppg .496% 6.8 ast – guarded by pipen
Pipen a muti all nba defender arguably the best sf defender ever,would make it hard on bird and make him work, likely causing bird to look to pass more. Bird averaged and shot well against pipen over his career mostly post prime 25.9ppg on .503% shooting. Bird was in his prime in playoff and none could stop him. Birds numbers likely take a small dip in efficiency and pipen causes some turnovers, also bird would likely become more of a playmaker. But still go to guy in clutch and a go to option. If the bulls do not double, he than would go to scoring his average/ maybe slightly above.
PF mchale 21.3 ppg [ 24.9 playoffs ].574% 2.7 ast- guarded by rodman
Rodman a muti all nba defender, but his best days were behind him in 96. At the age of 34 his speed was fading. Still a great defender, but never averaged 1 block or steal a game for his entire career. Mchale arguably the greatest low post scorer in NBA history, arguably the most efficient, leading league multiple years in %. Mchale had height advantage, length advantage [longest arms in nba history] and mutiple post moves. When matched against rodman in career mostly post prime, he shot well and scored above average. He would be a go too consistent option a mismatch for anyone, none ever learned how to stop mchale. But rodman would make him work. Mchale score same but at slightly reduced %.
Dennis Rodman was an incredible rebounder, but by 1996 his best days as a defender were behind him. Bulls homers try to say that he was still great but it’s just not true. His days as a versatile blanket defender had been left behind in Detroit. Once he found he had a talent for rebounding, that’s all he concentrated on – to the extent of cheating off his man to go for the boards. When Rodman was with the Spurs, he was victimized time and again by Houston’s Robert Horry in the 1995 Western Conference Finals. Teammate Sean Elliott pointed out that Rodman kept trying for the rebound and just cut Horry loose to heave up threes.
C parish 16.1ppg .549% 1.8 ast- guarded by longley
Clear mismatch in talent here, longley never any defensive awards matched against a HOF top 50 player. Parish would be a constant high % threat on offense or force a double team. Longely had size and would make parish fight for position and would do good job battling for it, but Parishes numbers would be higher than normal and longley would struggle to keep pace with parish in open court and fast breaks..
bench
walton 7.6 ppg .562% 2.1 ast- guarded by wennigton
Big mismatch, sixth man of the year walton a all time great, best backup center in nba history against rookie center bill wennigton, never any defensive awards. Walton one of the best total offensive centers when healthy to play. He was best passing center in game and would also create for others. Waltons numbers would be high compared to averge.
Wedman 8.0 ppg .473% 1.1 ast – guarded by kukoc
former all star and scorer wedman had his best year with boston in 86. he was midrange/outside threat. Guarded by kukoc who was a defensive liberality, witch means wedman would score more than his average and at a higher % almost making even the wedman/kukoc matchup.
Sichting 6.5 .570% 2.3 ast- guarded by kerr
His numbers may be slightly increased given kerr no defensive awards or respect. Evening the kerr/jerry matchup.
conclusion
Boston would have multiple scoring option to go to for constant points, mchale,parish,walton,bird. The only option that would be possibly taken away as for creating johnson, his man likely would leave to double allowing him to score. Boston could use multiple mismatches such as parish/longley walton/wennigton or even bird and mchale to force doubles. The other role players like ainge,wedman,jerry could still hit right around there averages. Boston could score from many ways in this matchup.
“The defensive skills of Jordan and Pippen would be diminished, while Larry Bird’s would be amplified. Jordan and especially Pippen would be unable to roam as they would have to be plugged into Ainge and Bird. On the other side of the ball, Larry Bird would have easy assignments like Dennis Rodman or Luc Longley, and thus would be able to utilize his great defensive abilities.”
much of Scottie Pippen’s defensive prowess was in the area of roaming. He could cheat off his man and make great steals and blocks. Not the case with Bird; he would have to be plugged into Bird the whole time
Jordan, much like Pippen, thrived on defense by sneaking off his man and making plays on other people. With Ainge, though, he would have been burned doing that.*
http://larrylegend.wordpress.com/200...1995-96-bulls/*
All the Celtics were bona fide threats on offense. This is not something the Bulls faced. There were no “defensive specialists” or “rebounding specialists.” Each player – including the bench – could score when called on.
The Celtics had dynamos on the front line, and that would force the Bulls’ hand. Chicago liked to go with Rodman and Kukoc down the stretch, but there’s no way they could do that against the Celtics. One of them would have to come out: if they went with Rodman, then they would lose Kukoc’s outside shooting; if they went with Kukoc, they would lose Rodman’s rebounding. If they tried to play the two together, Robert Parish would eat them alive.
when the 86 and 87 c's played and swept jordan out of playoffs, jordan was always leaving his man to double post, Johnson,ainge and sichting had great series against bulls because jordans doubles.
A comparison of match-ups with the two teams selects 86 c's because of lack of bench from Chicago and no center.*
http://larrylegend.wordpress.com/200...1995-96-bulls/*
Comparison of best two teams ever gives boston the slight edge
“Quality of competition is huge. The ’96 Bulls are known as one of the best teams ever because they won 72 games, but Boston won only five fewer in a much better NBA.....Chicago would just get manhandled up front. The combination of McHale, Parish and Walton would be too much for Rodman to take on by himself. Plus, Boston’s frontcourt depth would give them that many more fouls to hack away at Jordan every time he came flying into the lane. The size of Boston’s advantage up front is greater than Chicago’s advantage in the backcourt.*
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...boston-celtics
the 86 Celtics swept the 86 bulls with Jordan first round of the playoffs and won all regular season games going 6-0 against them. They would sweep again the next year as well.
The Celtics had four guys average over 15 points per game. The Bulls only had two. And, as previously mentioned, the Celtics had the Sixth Man of the Year. The Bulls starting center, Luc Longley, may be the worst starting center to ever win an NBA Finals.*
Johnson averaged better and shot better against jordan than his career averages [jordan doubled post allot with mchale parish etc]
86-88 games jordan doubles to much leaves open good shooters ainge/scihting wedman to get hammered.
86 and 87 playoffs vs jordan
johnson,ainge and sichting having great series vs bulls in large part because jordan kept leaving open the outside shooters to double the post. Johnson and ainge would both have great series again in 87 sweep of bulls.
head to head comparison stats
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...h2h_finder.cgi
the DJ of 86 [31] had trouble with jordan of 86 [22] because of speed, jordan of 96 [age 32] was much slower, playing in johnsons advantages.
*
How a short 3 point line helped the Chicago Bulls win 72 games in 1995-96.
http://pw1.netcom.com/~bjalas/basket...point_line.htm
Rebounding comparison
The Celtics led the league in rebounding in 86, the bulls were 12th in defensive rebounds.
Boston led the league in rebounding with 46.4 rpg, nearly five per game more than its opponents.*
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2004/chal...ltics1986.html
The combination of parish,mchale,bird and walton would dominate the boards against the bulls who’s only real rebounder was rodman. Rodman was 34 years old, he only played 32 min a game, he would also have to using energy to guard mchale and try to stay out of foul trouble against arguably the best low post score In nba history [ he once fouled out in 18 min against mchale]. Who is to rebound for the bulls while hes out? What if he gets in foul trouble against the Celtics frontline? Even when in by himself he cannot outrebound all the Celtics. The c's would likley put 7 foot Robert parish on rodman to help keep him off the boards.
Defensive comparisons
Both teams led the league in def that year. However the bulls were playing in a waterdown 96 league. So lets look at talent
Players who won a all defensive award in career
Bulls
3-Jorda,Pipen,Rodman,
Celtics
5- Bird,Walton,Mchale,Johsnon,Wedman
the other 3 players who got regular minutes
the 3 "weak spots"" were robert parish a down low defensive stopper parish who is 10th all time blocks, Ainge who was originally drafted and used as a defensive specialist by bill fitch and only got minutes in defensive situations [only later became know for his offense] and sichting who would never be called a stopper but was physical for his size and could stay in front of his man better than any Celtic, Ask isiah thomas about him on defense he hated him. You could not say the same for the like of kukoc,kerr wennigton and longley.
Passing team play
The 86 c's are widely regarded as the best passing team in history, they averaged 29.1 assist per game. The bulls averaged 24.8.
Superstar comparison
when we compare 86 c's to 96 bulls many would say in this comparison jordan vs bird. Than think of jordans 6 championship and 5 mvp's vs birds 3 and 3. But we are comparing just the single years of both 86 vs 96. So lets do that.
Both players were considered maybe the best clutch player ever, both dominated the league in respected years.
Jordan- MVP,Finals MVP,champion, best team in league.
Fg% .495 22.6 attempts a game
3pt% .427 [career high because shorter 3pt line 9 of 15 seasons below 30% regular line]
Reb 6.6
Ast 4.3
Stl 2.2
Blk .5
PPG 30.4
Playoff numbers
FG% .459
3pt% .403
Reb 4.9
Ast 4.1
Stl 1.8
Blk .3
PPG 30.7
Finals numbers 6 games
FG% .415
3pt% .316
Reb 5.3
Ast 4.2
Stl 1.7
Blk .2
PPG 27.3
Bird- MVP,finals mvp, champion, best team in league.
Fg% .496 19.6 attempts a game
3pt% .423 [ higher than any jordan regular 3 pt line numbers jordan career 32%]
Reb 9.8
Ast 6.8
Stl 2
Blk .6
PPG 25.8
playoffs
FG% .517
3pt% .411
Reb 9.3
Ast 8.2
Stl 2.1
Blk .6
PPG 25.9
finals 6 games
FG% .482
3pt% .368
Reb 9.7
Ast 9.5
Stl 2.7
Blk .3
PPG 24
Bird beats jordan at every stat in playoffs and finals but scoring, in a hypothetical matchup with 86 c's vs 96 bulls that has to come into play. Bird had the better of the two playoff and finals with his numbers most going up from season to playoffs, while jordans all dropped, jordan struggled in finals bird almost a triple double average. Even regular season numbers when bird was unhealthy for the 85 year, his stats can still match jordan's.
Larry bird in 86
Bird started the 85-86 season with a back injury that almost held him out of the year. He started the year slow with low stats. But when it hit 86 and fully healthy he was in prime, his numbers were over
52 games in the 86 year
27 ppg .52% fg .45% 3pt 10.2 rpg 7.1 apg 2 spg.
Post all star numbers
27.7 ppg .537% fg .458% 3pt 10.2 rpg 7.4 apg 37.2 min
How a short 3 point line helped the Chicago Bulls win 72 games in 1995-96.
http://pw1.netcom.com/~bjalas/basket...point_line.htm
08-19-2014, 08:12 AM
