Air Raid concepts less reliable (or rather, less exploitable) in NCAA 14 vs. 12?

[Rieux]

The consensus seems to be that the passing game vs. CPU defense is much easier to execute, and less challenging, in NCAA 14 than previous games. While I definitely agree that playing offense in 14 is less challenging in general - "read option" is all that needs to be said - I was an Air Raid guy in 12 (skipped 13) and feel like the Raid's passing concepts are slightly harder to use in 14 compared to 12. (Not too hard; I think it's an improvement overall because I felt like I was exploiting them in 12.) I'm interested in if any other folks, particularly Raid guys, agree with me. I have a couple of more specific questions too, and since I've written a long-ish post hoping to explain what I'm talking about, I numbered them to make them easier to find and respond to

I'm asking about the Stick concept in particular, since that's such a core Raid concept and even non-Raid guys have probably used it a lot. H Stick and Y Stick SHREDDED the CPU in 12. I remember it feeling automatic, like a borderline exploit. But while it's still great in 14, it feels a little less reliable/exploitable. If I tried to articulate why, I might say something like it feels like the OLB/nickelback is harder to read in 14 - in 12, he would immediately sprint toward the back in the flats if that was his assignment, giving me the hitch for free, or he'd linger around the slot receiver if he was playing the hitch, giving me the back for free (and if the outermost CB was in zone covering the flats, the Go was probably open for a bullet pass to begin with and I probably wouldn't have needed to progress to the hitch and flat reads.)

In 14, it feels like the OLB/nickelback will kinda waffle between the two - the hitch and the flat - kinda playing them both rather than declaring right away. Which slows down my read, so that when I make the read, reinforcements are arriving or have arrived; if I end up going to the hitch, he's usually getting tackled right as he makes the catch. Sometimes the incoming defender is on him so quick the receiver can't secure the catch, or the defender even just swats it down outright. And the slower read makes the RB in the flats much less reliable - he'll often be lucky to make it back to the LoS after the catch.

These are all positive things, to be clear - I like that the play is less exploitable than in 12. I'm just curious if (1) other folks agree that Y Stick/H stick are less rewarding & more balanced in 14 vs. 12, since I've read a lot of comments mentioning how people find passing easier in 14.

Which brings me to my main question, concerning my CPB and which plays I wanna include - (2) which do y'all prefer/find more effective in 14, Stick or Quick Slants? In 12, I would've taken Stick all day, every day, but Quick Slants has been much more reliable for me in 14. Since whatever you choose between those two tends to become that formation's quick pass audible in your CPB, I'm kinda trying to pick between them (I know both concepts are easily recreated with hot routes pre-snap, but I'd prefer to just stick with one concept over the other, at least for single formations.)

My last question is just tangential to all this, and concerns Mesh - which is the one Raid staple I never quite fell in love with, neither in 12 nor 14. In 14, with Mesh plays that have the man/zone option instead of just plain intersecting shallow routes that both continue across the field, it seems like the receivers always stop/settle - i.e. pick the "vs. zone, find some green to settle into" option - regardless of what the correct read is. (3) Has that been y'all's experience too? I'm starting to like the play more, the WR's corner route is usually nice if the CB isn't pressing, it just struck me as odd that I don't think I've ever seen them continue across to the other side of the field (unless the play isn't tagged with that option, of course).

Definitely interested in what y'all have to say - thanks!

[DonJonpin]

I feel like in 14, the air raid is more executable from a performance standpoint, but it’s riskier than previous games. EG more likely to throw an interception in traffic.


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[DonJonpin]

With 14 I’ve noticed that the Slot Flags concept has been the most successful for me. Also assuming you Hot Route your Outside WRs to Slants or Digs.

Your Slot receivers running Corners, this is your first read. First thing you look for when the ball is snapped is read the coverage. Man or Zone? If it’s man. You fire that ball to a slot receiver running his Corner right before he makes his cut. In my experience the corner route against man is basically automatic, Barring an at least somewhat quality WR, and unless the CB is essentially 99s all around.

If you read Zone than it’s your job to look for an opening in one of your outside Slant routes going over the middle. This is usually the more difficult read because you risk interception by their LBs over the middle. But if you can execute this concept it can be unstoppable. I once scored 80 on a dude online using it


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[ohio_bobcat_06]

I have 13 and 14. I feel like passing is harder in 14. Seems like dbs are more likely to change direction on you and go for the pick as opposed to 13. Not that I never get picked in 13 lol.

I will say in general, I think I prefer 13. I like the atmosphere better as far as entrances and the ESPN presentation. It feels like simulation is a little smoother/faster than 14. The other thing I find I like in 13 is the playbook set up. Meaning I just prefer the number/types of plays in the playbooks on 13.
The big thing I do like on 14 is that the recruiting is faster.

That said, thinking about selling 14 if anyone is interested.

[MATTYMATT726]

I went from 10' to 14' so can't comment on 12' , but I'll tell you this... Stick is 1 of the few passing plays i have in every formation in my books and plays without it i hot route a guy anyways. It routinely gets me 4-6 to 15-18 yards depending on TE, WR or my fav stick play out of Quads Empty where the HB is the stick route and 1 WR left and HB, and 3 WRs or 2 WRs and a TE all on the Right. I also hit the go mad easy on this stick play. It's 1 of my 2 go to plays.

[Rieux]

Quote: Originally Posted by DonJonpin

With 14 I’ve noticed that the Slot Flags concept has been the most successful for me. Also assuming you Hot Route your Outside WRs to Slants or Digs. Your Slot receivers running Corners, this is your first read. First thing you look for when the ball is snapped is read the coverage. Man or Zone? If it’s man. You fire that ball to a slot receiver running his Corner right before he makes his cut. In my experience the corner route against man is basically automatic, Barring an at least somewhat quality WR, and unless the CB is essentially 99s all around. If you read Zone than it’s your job to look for an opening in one of your outside Slant routes going over the middle. This is usually the more difficult read because you risk interception by their LBs over the middle. But if you can execute this concept it can be unstoppable. I once scored 80 on a dude online using it

Yeah, I've used that play before with decent success, I like it. I never thought to use the hot routes that way - you're basically creating a Y-Corner (with the Slant) or a Z-Under (with the Dig) concept, no? That's definitely one of my favorite concepts to run, but it never would've occurred to me to HR to it out of the Slot Flags play. I'll definitely have to try it to see how it feels when it's set up that way.

Quote: Originally Posted by ohio_bobcat_06

I have 13 and 14. I feel like passing is harder in 14. Seems like dbs are more likely to change direction on you and go for the pick as opposed to 13. Not that I never get picked in 13 lol. .

I definitely feel the same way about 12 vs. 14. There's the DBs mirroring routes which is irksome enough as it is, but when they magically reverse their momentum to pick a ball off it's really a downer lol. I will say I've had better luck with the Shallow series in 14, hitting the Dig route specifically. In 12 the problem was quarterbacks being completely unable to throw over the heads of linebackers in the box - even if their assignment was to hit a run gap and they were nearly to the LoS, they would stop on a dime and leap 5 feet into the air to grab the pass that you were trying to get to your H's/Y's dig route.

So I do like the changes more than I dislike 'em. Might have to give 13 a try one day if I ever get bored with a functional option game.

Quote: Originally Posted by MATTYMATT726

I went from 10' to 14' so can't comment on 12' , but I'll tell you this... Stick is 1 of the few passing plays i have in every formation in my books and plays without it i hot route a guy anyways. It routinely gets me 4-6 to 15-18 yards depending on TE, WR or my fav stick play out of Quads Empty where the HB is the stick route and 1 WR left and HB, and 3 WRs or 2 WRs and a TE all on the Right. I also hit the go mad easy on this stick play. It's 1 of my 2 go to plays.

I don't play out of empty sets as much as I should, I'll definitely have to try it and see how Stick feels that way. Do you have a particular progression you go through on Stick plays? Either out of empty sets or normal 10/11 personnel. I guess the Go is a presnap read and/or the first post-snap read, then you read the Stick? Who do you read if the Stick is covered?

In Dynasty I love the empty sets that put your HB as the innermost slot receiver - they're a great way to pump up your HB's catch totals on the season, which can make a big difference if he's in the running for the Doak Walker or Heisman.

So there's a couple of new things to try already. Thanks to everyone who replied! If more folks have thoughts of their own, I'd love to hear 'em.

[OBinKC]

1. It’s interesting that you say that about the stick concept, because I felt like in ‘12 the key defender was able to cover both the hitch AND the flat. And even if he broke towards, say, the flat, I would throw to the hitch and he would turn around on a dime and jump the route I threw to. Maybe I’m reading something wrong but my experience with that has been quite the opposite as yours.

2. I like both stick and quick slants concepts, but I’m finding lately that certain coverages leave the quick slant/flat wide open. If a safety cheats down presnap, slant/flat that side. The slant will be open for at least 7 yards. The thing is, Audibling to 4 verts will most likely find that inside receiver wide open as well. And of course, there are coverages that favor the stick instead. I would say that if you’re going Air RAID, stay true and go with Stick.

3. Lately I’ve figured out a way to make Mesh work really well. What I do is re-hotroute the shallow crosses to drags because I don’t like how inconsistent the receivers are on where they stop.

Presnap I look at the DB guarding my Z receiver who is either on the deep corner, out, post, or deep in (depending on which variation of mesh you call). If the DB is playing several yards off of him, I keep a close eye over there. Now post-snap, if the defense plays man on the drag routes, that Z receiver will be open as soon as he breaks 99% of the time. If the defense plays zone on the drags, there will eventually be a huge window where one of those drags will be open for 6+ yards. And most mesh plays have the HB on a flat route as a hot read if they blitz. Hope this helps!

[Rieux]

Quote: Originally Posted by OBinKC

1. It’s interesting that you say that about the stick concept, because I felt like in ‘12 the key defender was able to cover both the hitch AND the flat. And even if he broke towards, say, the flat, I would throw to the hitch and he would turn around on a dime and jump the route I threw to. Maybe I’m reading something wrong but my experience with that has been quite the opposite as yours. 2. I like both stick and quick slants concepts, but I’m finding lately that certain coverages leave the quick slant/flat wide open. If a safety cheats down presnap, slant/flat that side. The slant will be open for at least 7 yards. The thing is, Audibling to 4 verts will most likely find that inside receiver wide open as well. And of course, there are coverages that favor the stick instead. I would say that if you’re going Air RAID, stay true and go with Stick. 3. Lately I’ve figured out a way to make Mesh work really well. What I do is re-hotroute the shallow crosses to drags because I don’t like how inconsistent the receivers are on where they stop. Presnap I look at the DB guarding my Z receiver who is either on the deep corner, out, post, or deep in (depending on which variation of mesh you call). If the DB is playing several yards off of him, I keep a close eye over there. Now post-snap, if the defense plays man on the drag routes, that Z receiver will be open as soon as he breaks 99% of the time. If the defense plays zone on the drags, there will eventually be a huge window where one of those drags will be open for 6+ yards. And most mesh plays have the HB on a flat route as a hot read if they blitz. Hope this helps!

It definitely helps, thank you!

1. Ha, EA is just funny like that I guess. I do remember constantly trying new sliders in 12, so I reckon that could've made a difference - I know I bounced around between Heisman, AA and Varsity depending on the sliders, so I probably somehow made the Raid overly cheesy in 12.

2. "I would say that if you’re going Air RAID, stay true and go with Stick." Well said. I was thinking the same thing and this is probably gonna be the deciding factor for me.

3. The Mesh plays I find usually have Z running the corner, and yeah, it's been utterly lethal - against man coverage in particular I almost never even have to bother with the mesh read, because Z is open so consistently. Just changing the crossing routes to regular drags is a fantastic idea, and waiting for them to run into soft spots vs. zone. Definitely gonna start doing that now.