Madden's Owner Mode Better Than FOF4?

A-Husker-4-Life · 06-03-2003, 01:30 PM

The owner mode looks very cool... Setting prices on everything, making your own stadium, retired players becoming coaches, keeping your fans happy, signing bonus for players, and the list goes on..... Jim better take a long look at madden this year because it just might be a better sim than FOF4 (you can play the owner mode seperate from the game).

Jim should think very hard about making FOF5 a completely different game from the rest of the version's because it looks like the consoles are catching up in the SIM department....

wbatl1 · 06-03-2003, 01:33 PM

I agree totally. The only weakness with Madden is the lack of difference between seasons. Hopefully for Jim's sake, he will realize that his strict view of his game will not cut it, that the big money guys are catching up.

Philliesfan980 · 06-03-2003, 01:34 PM

Like I said in another thread, I think that consoles are becoming better and better at "generating" realistic stats.

You gotta remember that this will be maddens first year at this type of "owner" mode, so there will be bugs in it (Hopefully not many). We'll see in a few years though how it does compared to FOF.

Samdari · 06-03-2003, 01:36 PM

Well, he always claimed FOF4 was not an update of previous versions, but a rebuilt from the ground up completely new game. I never saw the difference.

In theend though, I think that the feature list of Madden may be catching up (surpassing?) FOF, but we won't know if it will be as accurate a simulation until we sim a few hundred seasons. At last count, Madden would produce pretty warped results, statistically.

MizzouRah · 06-03-2003, 01:36 PM

I would wait until Madden is out before declaring it better than FOF4 - per owner mode.

One thing I have learned in the gaming industry, anyone can talk about features, gameplay, graphics, etc... but the real test is when the game comes out. Promises don't mean diddly, one feature is retired players coming back to coach. Sounds great right? Well, if they don't have attributes in coaching, it doesn't mean a thing.. it's just a name. Ok, I'm getting off base here.

Todd

Fritz · 06-03-2003, 01:36 PM

Am I the only one who finds something appealing about a low impact interface?

CHEMICAL SOLDIER · 06-03-2003, 05:07 PM

Remember guys they want to make money so I think that the owner mode this year will be more basic and run down than originally hyped and features that could have been in this year will probably be added on in the next few years .

tucker342 · 06-03-2003, 06:51 PM

Thats a good point, but if it's even close to as good as they say it will be, then it will be an awesome franchise mode!

vulcan · 06-03-2003, 08:21 PM

I wouldn't get to hyper over Madden 2004. Like I have said countless times....EA's Madden 2004 will be a big disappointment and I was right. Read this link:

http://www.gamer.tv/page/feature/3535287.htm

Finally, franchise gameplay has been given a serious boost thanks to the new Owner mode incorporated in Madden NFL 2004. Now, not only can you take a team through 10 seasons on the field, you can build the stadium, set concession, seat and parking prices, hire coaching staff and organize fan appreciation days. You can even pull an Al Davis and relocate your team, as well as designing new uniforms and upgrading your players by performing drills in mini-camp. This adds a lot to the game, blending more of a business sim with on-field action.

Yep, you read it right, only 10 season of play during owner mode................Sure for arcaders this OK but come'on sim gamers...this is not right.

There are about 3 games in the works that I will give a try soon.

1)- TPF (Total Pro Football)
http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...?s=&forumid=52

2)-Maximum Football
http://www.maximum-football.com/

3)-Division Rivals
http://www.divisionrivals.com/phpBB2/index.php

EA has lost my business.

CHEMICAL SOLDIER · 06-03-2003, 08:22 PM

TPF Really sounds promising .

sabotai · 06-03-2003, 08:27 PM

Until you can play more than 10 seasons, MUCH more than 10 seasons, in owner mode, it can't compare to text sims.

CHEMICAL SOLDIER · 06-03-2003, 08:28 PM

10 Seasons think they would have learned by now .

MizzouRah · 06-03-2003, 08:37 PM

Hey, it's a start and they're testing the concept out to see if they can attract sim/manage players. If all goes well and it's well recieved, I'm sure they will expand the heck out of 'owner' mode. If it flops, we'll have to stick with text sims forever.

I think playing out your games, rather than simming them, will allow for tons of playing time for 10 years worth of games. Heck, just adding an accelerated clock made me reserve this game.

Todd

Bee · 06-03-2003, 08:46 PM

They won't attract many allowing only 10 seasons.

ice4277 · 06-03-2003, 09:06 PM

The thing that I think you guys are missing is, they aren't necessarily going after the hard-core sim crowd with this game. I'm sure they are not designing the dynasty mode with the sim-only crowd in mind; it takes me forever to play through just a couple seasons of Madden, I can't imagine playing ten, much less twenty or thirty. If they can attract a few simmers, then great, but I doubt they will be losing much sleep over it if they don't. Which is not to say I wouldn't mind an excessively deep sim built into Madden, but I will never expect it to happen. There's nothing wrong with keeping Madden a little less hard-core than the text sims IMO.

Pumpy Tudors · 06-03-2003, 09:11 PM

Honestly, I don't know much about football game design, but is it really that hard to extend the game from 10 seasons up to at least 25? For people who really want to get into owner mode, imagine what happens if you get the chance to draft a stud quarterback in year 8? Do you draft him with the knowledge that he'll only play for 3 seasons before the game just "quits" on you? What owner or GM has to make a decision like THAT (insert Bengals joke here)?

Basically, all the owner mode will get you is two generations of players. You'll have the current NFL players and then the guys from years 2-4 of your "dynasty." After that, there really won't be much time for any draft picks to make an impact. Imagine trying to import players from NCAA Football 2004. You develop a bigtime running back at a school, and you want to draft him onto your team in Madden. Ooops, your Madden franchise is in year 9, and your RB will only get two years with the Madden team that you've hopefully built into your ultimate vision.

This sounds like a train wreck.

sabotai · 06-03-2003, 09:40 PM

As far as just 10 seasons, remember this is a console game, not a PC game. They just port it the the PC. They design the game with memory cards in mind. That's why only ten seasons. There only so much room on those little cards.

Easy Mac · 06-03-2003, 10:29 PM

Am I the only one who doesn't give a fuck about building stadiums and bathrooms and 3 jumbotrons. I want to coach/GM a football team, no play fucking SimFootball.

Oh, and yes Fritz, give me a low impact interface. As long as I can get from screen to screen easy w/o it taking 10 minutes (slight exaggeration), I'm happy.

Philliesfan980 · 06-03-2003, 10:33 PM

I think everyone is missing the boat here.

Madden is a graphical "sim" game. I don't think that they are trying to get it to have the depth of a FOF type game. What they are attempting to offer is a little more for the person who wants some more features to the franchise mode. I think that the 10 season limitation isn't a game killer because like someone said earlier in the thread, it takes awhile to get through the season if you play every game. During the course of the football season, I seriously doubt I could get through more than 3 seasons. Pumpy Tudors does make a good point in that by year 6 or 7 , the "development" aspect of the game would render useless because the game is almost over.

FOF4 (or FOF5 by then hopefully, or other text based career sims) will not be replaced. If you want to crank out seasons and get into the super nitty gritty, thats definately the way to go.

Now when Maximum Football is released, thats when I'll offically go nuts!

Philliesfan980 · 06-03-2003, 11:09 PM

Another issue is games like Madden are actually released.

I've been hearing the "potential" of Maximum Football and Division Rivals for awhile now, with no release date. The problem is these games are worked on by a single (or just a few) programmers who often have full time jobs and can't devote as much time as they'd like to the game. While their enthuiasm for the game is genuine, they often can't deliver on what their trying to do, and sometimes just disappear completly after a release or two.

At least .400 studios is keeping everyone in touch with the upcoming football game that they plan to release. All the other games don't even give a tentative release date or time.

korme · 06-03-2003, 11:12 PM

You know what, 10 seasons sure does seem to suck..

But when is the last time I've gotten through 10 seasons in any console game? Sure, FOF4, OOTP5, 50 seasons in a month.

But Madden?? EH.. Madden 2003 my longest franchise ran for 4 years.. I don't know, it doesn't seem awful.

Kodos · 06-03-2003, 11:24 PM

I have trouble believing it is only 10 seasons. Franchise is 30. I hope the 10 year thing is wrong.

ice4277 · 06-04-2003, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
I have trouble believing it is only 10 seasons. Franchise is 30. I hope the 10 year thing is wrong.

That could easily be the case as well. Remember last year when there was a big fuss over the fact that EA was supposedly taking the dynasty mode out of NCAA Football? Obviously, that never happened.

Honolulu_Blue · 06-04-2003, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shorty3281
You know what, 10 seasons sure does seem to suck..

But when is the last time I've gotten through 10 seasons in any console game? Sure, FOF4, OOTP5, 50 seasons in a month.

But Madden?? EH.. Madden 2003 my longest franchise ran for 4 years.. I don't know, it doesn't seem awful.

I agree completely. Since around January I have played NCAA and Madden in tandem pretty much exclusively. I haven't played any other PC games or console games in that time. I played it whenever I had time which was pretty regularly. Outside of simming the first four years of NCAA (to get rid of all the no-name players), I think I played around 5 or 6 seasons in NCAA and 5 or 6 seasons in Madden. I could probably play a few more years of each, but by the time season 10 rolls around the new NCAA and Madden will be out. 30 years is a very nice security blanket though.

Darkiller · 06-04-2003, 04:20 AM

Hopefully the PC version will be longer and why shouldn't it be ? Madden 2003 currently offers 30 seasons of play.
Which is pretty nice regarding how long it takes me to complete a couple of seasons...

I was not a huge Madden fan before I bought version 2003, and I must admit that one got me hooked. It is a great game...and I believe it can be improved.
now we'll have to wait until 2004 comes out to measure this.

Bee · 06-04-2003, 06:21 AM

I don't think it's the intent of Madden to "steal" the fans of FOF. The question is will it "steal" those fans. With only 10 seasons there is no way it can even if it ends up with more "front office" features than FOF.

A-Husker-4-Life · 06-04-2003, 08:29 AM

http://www.gamer.tv/page/feature/3535287.htm

This is a preview before E3, I wouldn't trust it because I heard you can play it along side the Franchise mode, So I bet it's 30 years long...

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 11:35 AM

Here ya go.....I'll drop another bomb on the Madden lovers out there. NO ONLINE FRANCHISE MODE. Thats right.....Not even for the PS2s'. Here is that interview with EA Sports and the link:

http://www.maddentips.com/interview.html

INTERVIEW:

VG Sports: Last year a lot of players complain that the offensive line would suck the defensive linemen in, this caused the “Suction Block Effect”. How has the offensive line pass blocking been improved?

IC: We spent a lot of time this year on making our blocking more realistic. We added a lot of new push-blocking animations that we call “impact blocks” that will occur without your players having to be engaged. We also added more of an effect of a real pocket this year, so your offensive linemen will work hard to hold the integrity of the pocket. In my eyes this has solved pretty much all problems with suction blocking in terms of line play. We also did extra work on this to make it so that all defensive players can shed their blocks much more realistically, and break out to make a play if the ball carrier is getting close to passing them by.

VG Sports: Has the offensive linemen pancake glitch been fixed?

IC: Yes it has. Does anyone have a total post count on that issue? I would put the over/under at around 25,000.

VG: Has defensive line pass rush been improved? A lot of times no matter the defensive linemen players rating he would always get locked up with offensive linemen.

IC: This is sort of covered with the impact block additions. You will see a lot more pushing and movement on the line, including stunts and bull rushes. One thing of note as well (that I think you covered already on your site) is that we made defensive linemen run to an assigned hole. We felt this was more realistic, since in the NFL d-line play is all about the gap and technique of a player. This also got rid of a lot of those glitch blitzes that people could do by moving players all around the line. If the end is supposed to hit the C gap, no matter where you place him he is going to try and get through that C gap.

VG: The Madden 2003 defensive back AI was questionable at best at covering Corner, Post Corner, and Streak routes. Players would use these routes exclusively to win Madden Tournaments and playing online. Can you tell our readers what improvements they can expect in the defensive backs covering these routes and the defensive back AI man and zone pass coverages general in Madden 2004?

IC: There have been a number of significant improvements to DB AI that I think have solved the majority of our problems. First, we added a ton of new catch and swat animations that db’s can play. Second, we tied ratings more into animations so that good db’s can really get up and make plays (especially with some of the new animations we captured). Third, we spent a lot of time actually working with NFL assistant coaches (from the access we got with our new NFLCA license) on real-life secondary play and put that to work in the game. Fourth, if there is a situation where a db just can’t get there to make a play for whatever reason, we made it so he will set himself up to give the receiver a good hit. We also created a dynamic system that increases the chance of the ball getting knocked out on these hits, based on a lot of different things like was the receiver in the air, how hard the hit was, etc.

VG: I reported in my E3 write up that there would be over 3000 plays in Madden 2004. Could you tell our readers about some of the new formations and plays on both offense and defense that are being implemented into this years game?

IC: Yep I think the total number is well over 3000 right now. This includes every single play though, so you might see more variation in some playbooks than others. New formations to look for on offense include the Trips Bunch, Full House, Jumbo T, Empty 4WR (4WR’s and a TE – tons of teams run that), Singleback 4WR variations, Singleback Big Variations, Strong I Twins, Shotgun Trips TE, and quite a few more. We even have Favre lining up closer to center in their 2-back Shotgun.

On defense we added a 5-man front to 4-3 (4-3 Over), 3-3-5 Nickel, Nickel-Strong (close to 5 man front Nickel), and a Dime-Flat which has the outside DB’s and safeties lined up flat across from each other at about 10 yards deep. There is also a 3-Deep Quarter, a new 3-4 called “Pressure”, and a real 46 this year.

One other important note is that playbooks are based on real game films of NFL games from last season, as well as on info we received from all the assistant coaches that we met with. It has been a really jam-packed year in terms of playbooks, so I hope you guys enjoy all the hard work we put in.

VG: Has VG Sports and the Filmroom influenced Madden, and if so how?

IC: Yes, to a degree it has – we have been impressed with how much effort and detail you have in some of your break-downs, and one of our goals this year was to make you guys do some serious work to put together as much potent stuff that you had last year.

VG: Does EA plan on bringing back online franchise mode for the PC or adding on online franchise mode to the PSX2 version anytime soon?

IC: We don’t have online franchise for PS2 or PC this year. We do have some great features that allow for persistent on-going play online in both.

VG: Last year, EA posted roster updates for players to download from EA Net, but were not allowed to use them while playing online. Will roster updates be available online on this year for players to use while playing online.

IC: This functionality has been added to Madden NFL 2004. Since the roster files for both players have to be in sync, we are making people have the latest roster file in order to play online. You will also be able to set your depth charts, subs, etc. outside of online and not have to reset them every time you go in game. So in the case that your opponent is a VG Sports subscriber, you no longer have to wait for him to sub in all his wide receivers on the defensive line. (editors note: Ian was having a bit of fun with us here. Obviously this is not something we recommend doing)

VG: Will the offensive and defensive play editor be back in 2004? If so will players be able to take their created plays and use them online against other human opponents?

IC: The play editor is back for Madden NFL 2004. Created plays still cannot be used online due to the balance problems that would arise. One thing we did add is the ability to use player’s names in your created plays, like an Owens Slant or a Vick Sweep. We will release how to do that in play editor once the game ships. Our brand new PlayMaker control will also put a whole different spin on things in terms of play creation; I guarantee it will open up a whole new world of offensive and defensive strategy.

VG: What is Fair Play Mode all about? Could you give some specifics about it?

IC: Fair Play Settings are our way of providing an outlet to the Madden players that prefer a more realistic game. When this option is on for both users in an online game, certain things that are considered “cheese” are disallowed. A couple of examples would be a forced punt or field goal on 4th down based on field position and score, no onside kicks unless trailing late, hot routes and can’t be set until all players are at the line, multiple hot routes and audibles will have players jump offsides, and more. Keep in mind we also planned for those situations where this doesn’t apply, like you are losing in the final 3 minutes or something like that. It is very flexible and a lot of options are server side, so as we see things develop the settings may change.

VG: We had some readers asking about more info about the new “Package” menu that has been added to the play-calling screen. Could you add some insight on that?

IC: Packages is a new system of substitutions that is much easier to use and is much more “on the fly”. Each formation has a set of packages that allow you to quickly swap players in and out of positions. For example if you want T.O. to line up in the slot, you would just hit circle to scroll to that particular package. Other examples include a HB split out wide, a jumbo backfield, tight ends split out wide, etc. This is very similar to the way teams try to get mismatches in the NFL.

VG: Has the screen passes to the running backs been improved to work against the blitz or will it still only work when the defense drops everyone back into coverage?

IC: We are currently tuning this right now actually, and yes this will be improved.

VG: What about screens to the receivers?

IC: Same deal as above.

VG: Based on screen shots that have posted up sports gaming sites, it looks like the 46 defense has been revamped on the way it is set up and ran. Could you go into more detail on what changes EA has made to make the 46 defense more realistic?

IC: Last year the 46 was actually more of a 4-4, so this year we added in the real life 46 which is actually more of a 6 man front. This is actually the real scheme from the Buddy Ryan days, and carried through to today’s NFL with teams like the Titans. We also got a lot of help directly from the coaching staff of the Titans on implementing this, since their version of the 46 has been one of the most effective defensive schemes in the league.

VG: A lot players will use the Goal Line offense exclusively in tournaments and online effectively to win games. What players like to do is put their top receivers in at the tight end positions. It gives the offense a unfair advantage on the defense trying to play pass and run coverage. This is not real football; can you tell our readers what improvements have been to made to help counter this?

IC: We’ve tweaked the number and variety of passing plays in Goal Line to lessen the effectiveness of this strategy. In addition to this, we made wide receivers terrible blockers (as they should be), and added in a ton of defenses that will have your corners move in to lock up with their man.

VG: Ian, thanks for your time for doing this interview with VG Sports.

IC: You got it – anything I can do to help out the community. Unfortunately there isn’t enough time to talk about PlayMaker, Owner Mode, online additions, and all the other stuff we are adding for Madden NFL 2004, but I’m sure you guys will be learning much more about those features in the near future. This is definitely the best Madden to date – I hope you guys are as excited as I am.

EA has done it again.....

KWhit · 06-04-2003, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vulcan
Here ya go.....I'll drop another bomb on the Madden lovers out there. NO ONLINE FRANCHISE MODE. Thats right.....Not even for the PS2s'. Here is that interview with EA Sports and the link:

Actually, that article has me salivating even more for the game. I know you posted it to try to bum Madden fans out, but it didn't work. The new features sound really impressive.

Can't wait. But I'm actually more excited in NCAA 2004. WooHoo!

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KWhit
Actually, that article has me salivating even more for the game. I know you posted it to try to bum Madden fans out, but it didn't work. The new features sound really impressive.

Can't wait. But I'm actually more excited in NCAA 2004. WooHoo!

Wrong bud. I "didn't try to bum out Madden fans". My point was for online franchises. I used to love Madden (Madden 2002). Believe it or not but Madden 2001 & 2002 had more features than Madden 2004. EA has a BIG habit of implementing features one year and not including them the following year. This is a cycle they have learned over the past 4 years. They firgure that you will still buy it no matter what. As a consumer, I expect that each year there should be improvements. EA takes features out only to put back those same features in a year or two later and then they call those same features that "used" to be in the game as "new" features........You don't see anything wrong with that.....

Honolulu_Blue · 06-04-2003, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KWhit
Actually, that article has me salivating even more for the game. I know you posted it to try to bum Madden fans out, but it didn't work. The new features sound really impressive.

Can't wait. But I'm actually more excited in NCAA 2004. WooHoo!

I agree. I am just more juiced for the game. Then again, I don't play on-line at all, so those features mean nothing to me. Looks like Vulcan's bomb was a dud.

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 11:54 AM

I really thought I was on a sim gamers forum. Even arcade gamers are upset about this......I'm suprised guys. If you perfer dreadlocks in the game over unlimited season of play then Madden sure is for you.

KWhit · 06-04-2003, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vulcan
Wrong bud. I "didn't try to bum out Madden fans".

Um... Okay. It just seemed that way when you wrote "I'll drop another bomb on the Madden lovers out there."

I don't know about EA's history regarding the feature set. I;ve gotten a Madden game twice (2002 being the last one I think). All I know is that the interview you posted made the new version sound super-sweet.

WussGawd · 06-04-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vulcan
I wouldn't get to hyper over Madden 2004. Like I have said countless times....EA's Madden 2004 will be a big disappointment and I was right. Read this link:

http://www.gamer.tv/page/feature/3535287.htm

Finally, franchise gameplay has been given a serious boost thanks to the new Owner mode incorporated in Madden NFL 2004. Now, not only can you take a team through 10 seasons on the field, you can build the stadium, set concession, seat and parking prices, hire coaching staff and organize fan appreciation days. You can even pull an Al Davis and relocate your team, as well as designing new uniforms and upgrading your players by performing drills in mini-camp. This adds a lot to the game, blending more of a business sim with on-field action.

Yep, you read it right, only 10 season of play during owner mode................Sure for arcaders this OK but come'on sim gamers...this is not right.

There are about 3 games in the works that I will give soon.

1)- TPF (Total Pro Football)
http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...?s=&forumid=52

2)-Maximum Football
http://www.maximum-football.com/

3)-Division Rivals
http://www.divisionrivals.com/phpBB2/index.php

EA has lost my business.

10 Seasons? This is the game that's going to doom TPF & FOF4? Hahahaha. This game's franchise mode isn't even going to be as fun as last year's (where, flawed as it was, you could at least go 30 seasons).

Why even bother to have a franchise mode if you are going to cripple it so severely?

Possibly the best marketing decision by EA since giving the green light to Sims Online.

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KWhit
Um... Okay. It just seemed that way when you wrote "I'll drop another bomb on the Madden lovers out there."

I don't know about EA's history regarding the feature set. I;ve gotten a Madden game twice (2002 being the last one I think). All I know is that the interview you posted made the new version sound super-sweet.

Sure the play editor is great. In fact alot of the features are new for this year (which is suprising). However, like I wrote, I used to love Madden games until they removed the online features. They also do not allow for 3rd party programs to be written (very easily). EA could do so much more for the sim crowd but they only entertain the arcade gamer IMO.

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 12:03 PM

One more thing.....that play editor (which EA has so taken pride of implementing into Madden 2004)....used to be a feature in Madden 2001.

KWhit · 06-04-2003, 12:05 PM

If the franchise mode really does only last 10 seasons, that will truly suck. However, I couldn't care less about online play. Going online to play some 12 year old who calls a streak pattern every play is lame.

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 12:07 PM

Franchise mode will have 30 seasons....but "Owner mode" will have 10 seasons. According to EA, there is a difference between the two.

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 12:18 PM

Ok, I did some indepth checking on this "10 seasons only for Owner mode". That article was wrong. The owner mode will be 30 seasons. I wanted to clarify that for those of you who were bumbed out about it. This info I got was from EA Sports.

MizzouRah · 06-04-2003, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vulcan
Ok, I did some indepth checking on this "10 seasons only for Owner mode". That article was wrong. The owner mode will be 30 seasons. I wanted to clarify that for those of you who were bumbed out about it. This info I got was from EA Sports.

That is great news! I'm not an online guy either, I just want a good solo mode, with an occasional beat my friends in a game or two.

Todd

Kodos · 06-04-2003, 12:56 PM

Vulcan: I'm curious. What features that appeared in 2001 or 2002 Madden PS2 have been removed? I cannot think of any. Please enlighten me. I have owned every installment. They may have taken away features in the jump from PS1 to PS2, but that is to be expected when you are dealing with an entirely new console.

And yes, online franchise sounds nice, but in reality, it is not all it is cracked up to be. My FML league demonstrated the unfortunate truth that it is nearly impossible to get a large number of people to regularly play games that require a large time commitment. It was like pulling teeth trying to get everyone to play their games on a regular schedule. I cannot see online franchise mode, which would require even more effort, being successful, even if it was included. Yes, it sounds nice in theory. I would love to be in an active, regular Madden franchise with human owners. But realistically, that will never happen.

Kodos · 06-04-2003, 01:27 PM

P.S. Could you post where you found that Owner mode was 30 years? I looked on EA's site and couldn't find anything.

ice4277 · 06-04-2003, 01:49 PM

Just for the record, I have absolutely zero interest in playing Madden online, so that issue is a nonstarter with me. And I hardly feel like I am alone on this matter. I think if EA seriously felt that putting something like this into the game would move that many more units, they would at least attempt to put it in. I'm willing to bet, though, that the online community in Madden makes up just a very very small percentage of its total user base.

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
Vulcan: I'm curious. What features that appeared in 2001 or 2002 Madden PS2 have been removed? I cannot think of any. Please enlighten me. I have owned every installment. They may have taken away features in the jump from PS1 to PS2, but that is to be expected when you are dealing with an entirely new console.

And yes, online franchise sounds nice, but in reality, it is not all it is cracked up to be. My FML league demonstrated the unfortunate truth that it is nearly impossible to get a large number of people to regularly play games that require a large time commitment. It was like pulling teeth trying to get everyone to play their games on a regular schedule. I cannot see online franchise mode, which would require even more effort, being successful, even if it was included. Yes, it sounds nice in theory. I would love to be in an active, regular Madden franchise with human owners. But realistically, that will never happen.

Dirty uniforms
Online Franchise
Play editor
....these are to name a few. These are for the PC version as well.

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
P.S. Could you post where you found that Owner mode was 30 years? I looked on EA's site and couldn't find anything.

First I saw it on a Madden video (XBox version). Second, I contacted EA.

A-Husker-4-Life · 06-04-2003, 04:25 PM

Where can I find the Video???????

Kodos · 06-04-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vulcan
Dirty uniforms
Online Franchise
Play editor
....these are to name a few. These are for the PC version as well.

I honestly can't say one way or another on the dirty uniforms whether they were in 2001 PS2 version, or aren't in 2003 PS2 version. However, Online franchise definitely was not in for PS2 version ever, and player editor is in the current PS2 version, so I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say it is gone.

If you are talking exclusively about the PC version, then you are probably right. I have never played the PC version, so I don't know, but I do know that PC version tends to get the short end of the stick.

Hyde · 06-04-2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by A-Husker-4-Life
The owner mode looks very cool... Setting prices on everything, making your own stadium, retired players becoming coaches, keeping your fans happy, signing bonus for players, and the list goes on..... Jim better take a long look at madden this year because it just might be a better sim than FOF4 (you can play the owner mode seperate from the game).

Jim should think very hard about making FOF5 a completely different game from the rest of the version's because it looks like the consoles are catching up in the SIM department....

It wouldnt be too hard to be better then FOF 4.

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
I honestly can't say one way or another on the dirty uniforms whether they were in 2001 PS2 version, or aren't in 2003 PS2 version. However, Online franchise definitely was not in for PS2 version ever, and player editor is in the current PS2 version, so I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say it is gone.

If you are talking exclusively about the PC version, then you are probably right. I have never played the PC version, so I don't know, but I do know that PC version tends to get the short end of the stick.

Yes, these are for the PC versions only.

vulcan · 06-04-2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by A-Husker-4-Life
Where can I find the Video???????

I'll try to find it for you. I'll post it here when I do find it. I just saw it today.

06-03-2003, 01:33 PM	#2
wbatl1 High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2003	I agree totally. The only weakness with Madden is the lack of difference between seasons. Hopefully for Jim's sake, he will realize that his strict view of his game will not cut it, that the big money guys are catching up. __________________ wbatl1

06-03-2003, 01:36 PM	#4
Samdari Roster Filler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cicero	Well, he always claimed FOF4 was not an update of previous versions, but a rebuilt from the ground up completely new game. I never saw the difference. In theend though, I think that the feature list of Madden may be catching up (surpassing?) FOF, but we won't know if it will be as accurate a simulation until we sim a few hundred seasons. At last count, Madden would produce pretty warped results, statistically. __________________ http://www.nateandellie.net Now featuring twice the babies for the same low price!

06-03-2003, 01:36 PM	#6
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Am I the only one who finds something appealing about a low impact interface? __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

06-03-2003, 05:07 PM	#7
CHEMICAL SOLDIER College Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Henderson, Nevada	Remember guys they want to make money so I think that the owner mode this year will be more basic and run down than originally hyped and features that could have been in this year will probably be added on in the next few years . __________________ Toujour Pret

06-03-2003, 08:21 PM	#9
vulcan In The Penalty Box Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: WI-USA	I wouldn't get to hyper over Madden 2004. Like I have said countless times....EA's Madden 2004 will be a big disappointment and I was right. Read this link: http://www.gamer.tv/page/feature/3535287.htm Finally, franchise gameplay has been given a serious boost thanks to the new Owner mode incorporated in Madden NFL 2004. Now, not only can you take a team through 10 seasons on the field, you can build the stadium, set concession, seat and parking prices, hire coaching staff and organize fan appreciation days. You can even pull an Al Davis and relocate your team, as well as designing new uniforms and upgrading your players by performing drills in mini-camp. This adds a lot to the game, blending more of a business sim with on-field action. Yep, you read it right, only 10 season of play during owner mode................Sure for arcaders this OK but come'on sim gamers...this is not right. There are about 3 games in the works that I will give a try soon. 1)- TPF (Total Pro Football) http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...?s=&forumid=52 2)-Maximum Football http://www.maximum-football.com/ 3)-Division Rivals http://www.divisionrivals.com/phpBB2/index.php EA has lost my business. Last edited by vulcan : 06-04-2003 at 12:06 PM.

06-03-2003, 01:34 PM	#3
Philliesfan980 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Exton, PA	Like I said in another thread, I think that consoles are becoming better and better at "generating" realistic stats. You gotta remember that this will be maddens first year at this type of "owner" mode, so there will be bugs in it (Hopefully not many). We'll see in a few years though how it does compared to FOF.

06-03-2003, 01:36 PM	#5
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	I would wait until Madden is out before declaring it better than FOF4 - per owner mode. One thing I have learned in the gaming industry, anyone can talk about features, gameplay, graphics, etc... but the real test is when the game comes out. Promises don't mean diddly, one feature is retired players coming back to coach. Sounds great right? Well, if they don't have attributes in coaching, it doesn't mean a thing.. it's just a name. Ok, I'm getting off base here. Todd

06-03-2003, 06:51 PM	#8
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	Thats a good point, but if it's even close to as good as they say it will be, then it will be an awesome franchise mode!

06-03-2003, 08:22 PM	#10
CHEMICAL SOLDIER College Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Henderson, Nevada	TPF Really sounds promising . __________________ Toujour Pret

06-03-2003, 08:27 PM	#11
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	Until you can play more than 10 seasons, MUCH more than 10 seasons, in owner mode, it can't compare to text sims.

06-03-2003, 08:28 PM	#12
CHEMICAL SOLDIER College Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Henderson, Nevada	10 Seasons think they would have learned by now . __________________ Toujour Pret

06-03-2003, 08:37 PM	#13
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	Hey, it's a start and they're testing the concept out to see if they can attract sim/manage players. If all goes well and it's well recieved, I'm sure they will expand the heck out of 'owner' mode. If it flops, we'll have to stick with text sims forever. I think playing out your games, rather than simming them, will allow for tons of playing time for 10 years worth of games. Heck, just adding an accelerated clock made me reserve this game. Todd

06-03-2003, 08:46 PM	#14
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	They won't attract many allowing only 10 seasons.

06-03-2003, 09:06 PM	#15
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	The thing that I think you guys are missing is, they aren't necessarily going after the hard-core sim crowd with this game. I'm sure they are not designing the dynasty mode with the sim-only crowd in mind; it takes me forever to play through just a couple seasons of Madden, I can't imagine playing ten, much less twenty or thirty. If they can attract a few simmers, then great, but I doubt they will be losing much sleep over it if they don't. Which is not to say I wouldn't mind an excessively deep sim built into Madden, but I will never expect it to happen. There's nothing wrong with keeping Madden a little less hard-core than the text sims IMO.

06-03-2003, 09:11 PM	#16
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Honestly, I don't know much about football game design, but is it really that hard to extend the game from 10 seasons up to at least 25? For people who really want to get into owner mode, imagine what happens if you get the chance to draft a stud quarterback in year 8? Do you draft him with the knowledge that he'll only play for 3 seasons before the game just "quits" on you? What owner or GM has to make a decision like THAT (insert Bengals joke here)? Basically, all the owner mode will get you is two generations of players. You'll have the current NFL players and then the guys from years 2-4 of your "dynasty." After that, there really won't be much time for any draft picks to make an impact. Imagine trying to import players from NCAA Football 2004. You develop a bigtime running back at a school, and you want to draft him onto your team in Madden. Ooops, your Madden franchise is in year 9, and your RB will only get two years with the Madden team that you've hopefully built into your ultimate vision. This sounds like a train wreck. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

06-03-2003, 09:40 PM	#17
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	As far as just 10 seasons, remember this is a console game, not a PC game. They just port it the the PC. They design the game with memory cards in mind. That's why only ten seasons. There only so much room on those little cards.

06-03-2003, 10:29 PM	#18
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	Am I the only one who doesn't give a fuck about building stadiums and bathrooms and 3 jumbotrons. I want to coach/GM a football team, no play fucking SimFootball. Oh, and yes Fritz, give me a low impact interface. As long as I can get from screen to screen easy w/o it taking 10 minutes (slight exaggeration), I'm happy.

06-03-2003, 10:33 PM	#19
Philliesfan980 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Exton, PA	I think everyone is missing the boat here. Madden is a graphical "sim" game. I don't think that they are trying to get it to have the depth of a FOF type game. What they are attempting to offer is a little more for the person who wants some more features to the franchise mode. I think that the 10 season limitation isn't a game killer because like someone said earlier in the thread, it takes awhile to get through the season if you play every game. During the course of the football season, I seriously doubt I could get through more than 3 seasons. Pumpy Tudors does make a good point in that by year 6 or 7 , the "development" aspect of the game would render useless because the game is almost over. FOF4 (or FOF5 by then hopefully, or other text based career sims) will not be replaced. If you want to crank out seasons and get into the super nitty gritty, thats definately the way to go. Now when Maximum Football is released, thats when I'll offically go nuts!

06-03-2003, 11:09 PM	#20
Philliesfan980 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Exton, PA	Another issue is games like Madden are actually released. I've been hearing the "potential" of Maximum Football and Division Rivals for awhile now, with no release date. The problem is these games are worked on by a single (or just a few) programmers who often have full time jobs and can't devote as much time as they'd like to the game. While their enthuiasm for the game is genuine, they often can't deliver on what their trying to do, and sometimes just disappear completly after a release or two. At least .400 studios is keeping everyone in touch with the upcoming football game that they plan to release. All the other games don't even give a tentative release date or time.

06-03-2003, 11:12 PM	#21
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	You know what, 10 seasons sure does seem to suck.. But when is the last time I've gotten through 10 seasons in any console game? Sure, FOF4, OOTP5, 50 seasons in a month. But Madden?? EH.. Madden 2003 my longest franchise ran for 4 years.. I don't know, it doesn't seem awful.

06-03-2003, 11:24 PM	#22
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I have trouble believing it is only 10 seasons. Franchise is 30. I hope the 10 year thing is wrong.

06-04-2003, 04:20 AM	#25
Darkiller FOF2 Guy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Paris, France	Hopefully the PC version will be longer and why shouldn't it be ? Madden 2003 currently offers 30 seasons of play. Which is pretty nice regarding how long it takes me to complete a couple of seasons... I was not a huge Madden fan before I bought version 2003, and I must admit that one got me hooked. It is a great game...and I believe it can be improved. now we'll have to wait until 2004 comes out to measure this. __________________ FOF2 lives on / Continue to support the best game ever ! - Owner of the San Francisco 49ers in FOF2 - Charter member of the IHOF and owner of the Paris Musketeers franchise (FOF2004) - Chairman of the IHOF Hall of Fame - Athletic Director of the Brigham Young Cougars in TCY FOF Legend: Hall of Fame QB Brock Sheriff #5, one of the most popular player in Front Office Football history.

06-04-2003, 06:21 AM	#26
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I don't think it's the intent of Madden to "steal" the fans of FOF. The question is will it "steal" those fans. With only 10 seasons there is no way it can even if it ends up with more "front office" features than FOF.

06-04-2003, 08:29 AM	#27
A-Husker-4-Life College Prospect Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nebraska	Don't trust it.... http://www.gamer.tv/page/feature/3535287.htm This is a preview before E3, I wouldn't trust it because I heard you can play it along side the Franchise mode, So I bet it's 30 years long... __________________ JJ Smitty Owner of the TheC.F.L. - Come by and check us out.

06-04-2003, 11:35 AM	#28
vulcan In The Penalty Box Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: WI-USA	Here ya go.....I'll drop another bomb on the Madden lovers out there. NO ONLINE FRANCHISE MODE. Thats right.....Not even for the PS2s'. Here is that interview with EA Sports and the link: http://www.maddentips.com/interview.html INTERVIEW: VG Sports: Last year a lot of players complain that the offensive line would suck the defensive linemen in, this caused the “Suction Block Effect”. How has the offensive line pass blocking been improved? IC: We spent a lot of time this year on making our blocking more realistic. We added a lot of new push-blocking animations that we call “impact blocks” that will occur without your players having to be engaged. We also added more of an effect of a real pocket this year, so your offensive linemen will work hard to hold the integrity of the pocket. In my eyes this has solved pretty much all problems with suction blocking in terms of line play. We also did extra work on this to make it so that all defensive players can shed their blocks much more realistically, and break out to make a play if the ball carrier is getting close to passing them by. VG Sports: Has the offensive linemen pancake glitch been fixed? IC: Yes it has. Does anyone have a total post count on that issue? I would put the over/under at around 25,000. VG: Has defensive line pass rush been improved? A lot of times no matter the defensive linemen players rating he would always get locked up with offensive linemen. IC: This is sort of covered with the impact block additions. You will see a lot more pushing and movement on the line, including stunts and bull rushes. One thing of note as well (that I think you covered already on your site) is that we made defensive linemen run to an assigned hole. We felt this was more realistic, since in the NFL d-line play is all about the gap and technique of a player. This also got rid of a lot of those glitch blitzes that people could do by moving players all around the line. If the end is supposed to hit the C gap, no matter where you place him he is going to try and get through that C gap. VG: The Madden 2003 defensive back AI was questionable at best at covering Corner, Post Corner, and Streak routes. Players would use these routes exclusively to win Madden Tournaments and playing online. Can you tell our readers what improvements they can expect in the defensive backs covering these routes and the defensive back AI man and zone pass coverages general in Madden 2004? IC: There have been a number of significant improvements to DB AI that I think have solved the majority of our problems. First, we added a ton of new catch and swat animations that db’s can play. Second, we tied ratings more into animations so that good db’s can really get up and make plays (especially with some of the new animations we captured). Third, we spent a lot of time actually working with NFL assistant coaches (from the access we got with our new NFLCA license) on real-life secondary play and put that to work in the game. Fourth, if there is a situation where a db just can’t get there to make a play for whatever reason, we made it so he will set himself up to give the receiver a good hit. We also created a dynamic system that increases the chance of the ball getting knocked out on these hits, based on a lot of different things like was the receiver in the air, how hard the hit was, etc. VG: I reported in my E3 write up that there would be over 3000 plays in Madden 2004. Could you tell our readers about some of the new formations and plays on both offense and defense that are being implemented into this years game? IC: Yep I think the total number is well over 3000 right now. This includes every single play though, so you might see more variation in some playbooks than others. New formations to look for on offense include the Trips Bunch, Full House, Jumbo T, Empty 4WR (4WR’s and a TE – tons of teams run that), Singleback 4WR variations, Singleback Big Variations, Strong I Twins, Shotgun Trips TE, and quite a few more. We even have Favre lining up closer to center in their 2-back Shotgun. On defense we added a 5-man front to 4-3 (4-3 Over), 3-3-5 Nickel, Nickel-Strong (close to 5 man front Nickel), and a Dime-Flat which has the outside DB’s and safeties lined up flat across from each other at about 10 yards deep. There is also a 3-Deep Quarter, a new 3-4 called “Pressure”, and a real 46 this year. One other important note is that playbooks are based on real game films of NFL games from last season, as well as on info we received from all the assistant coaches that we met with. It has been a really jam-packed year in terms of playbooks, so I hope you guys enjoy all the hard work we put in. VG: Has VG Sports and the Filmroom influenced Madden, and if so how? IC: Yes, to a degree it has – we have been impressed with how much effort and detail you have in some of your break-downs, and one of our goals this year was to make you guys do some serious work to put together as much potent stuff that you had last year. VG: Does EA plan on bringing back online franchise mode for the PC or adding on online franchise mode to the PSX2 version anytime soon? IC: We don’t have online franchise for PS2 or PC this year. We do have some great features that allow for persistent on-going play online in both. VG: Last year, EA posted roster updates for players to download from EA Net, but were not allowed to use them while playing online. Will roster updates be available online on this year for players to use while playing online. IC: This functionality has been added to Madden NFL 2004. Since the roster files for both players have to be in sync, we are making people have the latest roster file in order to play online. You will also be able to set your depth charts, subs, etc. outside of online and not have to reset them every time you go in game. So in the case that your opponent is a VG Sports subscriber, you no longer have to wait for him to sub in all his wide receivers on the defensive line. (editors note: Ian was having a bit of fun with us here. Obviously this is not something we recommend doing) VG: Will the offensive and defensive play editor be back in 2004? If so will players be able to take their created plays and use them online against other human opponents? IC: The play editor is back for Madden NFL 2004. Created plays still cannot be used online due to the balance problems that would arise. One thing we did add is the ability to use player’s names in your created plays, like an Owens Slant or a Vick Sweep. We will release how to do that in play editor once the game ships. Our brand new PlayMaker control will also put a whole different spin on things in terms of play creation; I guarantee it will open up a whole new world of offensive and defensive strategy. VG: What is Fair Play Mode all about? Could you give some specifics about it? IC: Fair Play Settings are our way of providing an outlet to the Madden players that prefer a more realistic game. When this option is on for both users in an online game, certain things that are considered “cheese” are disallowed. A couple of examples would be a forced punt or field goal on 4th down based on field position and score, no onside kicks unless trailing late, hot routes and can’t be set until all players are at the line, multiple hot routes and audibles will have players jump offsides, and more. Keep in mind we also planned for those situations where this doesn’t apply, like you are losing in the final 3 minutes or something like that. It is very flexible and a lot of options are server side, so as we see things develop the settings may change. VG: We had some readers asking about more info about the new “Package” menu that has been added to the play-calling screen. Could you add some insight on that? IC: Packages is a new system of substitutions that is much easier to use and is much more “on the fly”. Each formation has a set of packages that allow you to quickly swap players in and out of positions. For example if you want T.O. to line up in the slot, you would just hit circle to scroll to that particular package. Other examples include a HB split out wide, a jumbo backfield, tight ends split out wide, etc. This is very similar to the way teams try to get mismatches in the NFL. VG: Has the screen passes to the running backs been improved to work against the blitz or will it still only work when the defense drops everyone back into coverage? IC: We are currently tuning this right now actually, and yes this will be improved. VG: What about screens to the receivers? IC: Same deal as above. VG: Based on screen shots that have posted up sports gaming sites, it looks like the 46 defense has been revamped on the way it is set up and ran. Could you go into more detail on what changes EA has made to make the 46 defense more realistic? IC: Last year the 46 was actually more of a 4-4, so this year we added in the real life 46 which is actually more of a 6 man front. This is actually the real scheme from the Buddy Ryan days, and carried through to today’s NFL with teams like the Titans. We also got a lot of help directly from the coaching staff of the Titans on implementing this, since their version of the 46 has been one of the most effective defensive schemes in the league. VG: A lot players will use the Goal Line offense exclusively in tournaments and online effectively to win games. What players like to do is put their top receivers in at the tight end positions. It gives the offense a unfair advantage on the defense trying to play pass and run coverage. This is not real football; can you tell our readers what improvements have been to made to help counter this? IC: We’ve tweaked the number and variety of passing plays in Goal Line to lessen the effectiveness of this strategy. In addition to this, we made wide receivers terrible blockers (as they should be), and added in a ton of defenses that will have your corners move in to lock up with their man. VG: Ian, thanks for your time for doing this interview with VG Sports. IC: You got it – anything I can do to help out the community. Unfortunately there isn’t enough time to talk about PlayMaker, Owner Mode, online additions, and all the other stuff we are adding for Madden NFL 2004, but I’m sure you guys will be learning much more about those features in the near future. This is definitely the best Madden to date – I hope you guys are as excited as I am. EA has done it again.....

06-04-2003, 11:54 AM	#32
vulcan In The Penalty Box Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: WI-USA	I really thought I was on a sim gamers forum. Even arcade gamers are upset about this......I'm suprised guys. If you perfer dreadlocks in the game over unlimited season of play then Madden sure is for you. Last edited by vulcan : 06-04-2003 at 11:56 AM.

06-04-2003, 12:03 PM	#36
vulcan In The Penalty Box Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: WI-USA	One more thing.....that play editor (which EA has so taken pride of implementing into Madden 2004)....used to be a feature in Madden 2001.

06-04-2003, 12:05 PM	#37
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	If the franchise mode really does only last 10 seasons, that will truly suck. However, I couldn't care less about online play. Going online to play some 12 year old who calls a streak pattern every play is lame.

06-04-2003, 12:07 PM	#38
vulcan In The Penalty Box Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: WI-USA	Franchise mode will have 30 seasons....but "Owner mode" will have 10 seasons. According to EA, there is a difference between the two.

06-04-2003, 12:18 PM	#39
vulcan In The Penalty Box Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: WI-USA	Ok, I did some indepth checking on this "10 seasons only for Owner mode". That article was wrong. The owner mode will be 30 seasons. I wanted to clarify that for those of you who were bumbed out about it. This info I got was from EA Sports.

06-04-2003, 12:56 PM	#41
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Vulcan: I'm curious. What features that appeared in 2001 or 2002 Madden PS2 have been removed? I cannot think of any. Please enlighten me. I have owned every installment. They may have taken away features in the jump from PS1 to PS2, but that is to be expected when you are dealing with an entirely new console. And yes, online franchise sounds nice, but in reality, it is not all it is cracked up to be. My FML league demonstrated the unfortunate truth that it is nearly impossible to get a large number of people to regularly play games that require a large time commitment. It was like pulling teeth trying to get everyone to play their games on a regular schedule. I cannot see online franchise mode, which would require even more effort, being successful, even if it was included. Yes, it sounds nice in theory. I would love to be in an active, regular Madden franchise with human owners. But realistically, that will never happen. Last edited by Kodos : 06-04-2003 at 01:00 PM.

06-04-2003, 01:27 PM	#42
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	P.S. Could you post where you found that Owner mode was 30 years? I looked on EA's site and couldn't find anything.

06-04-2003, 01:49 PM	#43
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	Just for the record, I have absolutely zero interest in playing Madden online, so that issue is a nonstarter with me. And I hardly feel like I am alone on this matter. I think if EA seriously felt that putting something like this into the game would move that many more units, they would at least attempt to put it in. I'm willing to bet, though, that the online community in Madden makes up just a very very small percentage of its total user base.

06-04-2003, 04:25 PM	#46
A-Husker-4-Life College Prospect Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nebraska	Where can I find the Video??????? __________________ JJ Smitty Owner of the TheC.F.L. - Come by and check us out.

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