OT: MLB First year player draft takes place today.

[cincyreds]

Anybody here really pay attention to this draft or get really excited about it?

For me, I am a huge prospects fan of the game. I have bought the first 3 versions of Baseball America's Prospect Handbook each year, so I can see who is ranked where and then I can keep an eye on them each season.

This also comes in handy when playing Fantasy Baseball, where if you pay attention enough you can nab that yound stud pitcher or player that no one really know about but you.

MLB.COM is covering the draft live today where you can watch each pick being taken.

What are your team needs? Mine, well the Reds do need more pitching, pitching, pitching, you can never have enough pitching.

[Travis]

Ditto for the Jays. Especially with J.P. at the helm, we'll probably take 90% pitchers.

[Cards4ever]

So, are you really telling me that players go right from the draft, and obscure players on top of it, to the major leagues?

I usually just watch the minors and read Baseball Weekly and get all that info right there.

[Booj]

My Expos don't have a need... they don't have a future... and they probably won't see this guy develop anyways... They'll just take the best guy available, regardless of position..

This is the first MLB Draft Day I have off, so I'll be watching the draft, and am getting excited by it.. reading up on prospects and what not.

[oykib]

Yeah, the MLB draft is almost totally uninteresting (at least as far as projecting players goes). We have absolutely no idea how these guys'll turn out.

The only thing that's interesting is checking the overall team philosophies. But you have to wait until the end of the draft to really understand what a team was doing.

[Philliesfan980]

Unfortunately the Phillies don't have a first or second round pick this year due to Jim Thome (1st) and David Bell (in my opinion not even worth a second round pick, let alone the cash). Its a shame that this league is really thin at 3B this year, because they overpaid for Bell big time.

[Ksyrup]

Jayson Stark has a column about how MLB needs to televise the draft and make a big deal about it...but for the reasons echoed above, it isn't a big deal. This is not football or basketball - these guys usually don't get to within a whiff of Spring training for a year or two.

I don't know what the relative success rate is with hockey players, but I'd guess baseball and hockey are about on par (maybe?). And hockey's is televised, so baseball's probably should be too. But I wouldn't expect people to clear an entire weekend to watch 17 hours of the baseball draft, because it ain't gonna happen. I'm a huge baseball fan, and even I don't care who gets picked first. He could be A-Rod, he could be Brien Taylor, or he could be Jeff Burroughs. And we likely won't find out until 2007.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
I don't know what the relative success rate is with hockey players, but I'd guess baseball and hockey are about on par (maybe?).

About that, yeah, although these days very few hockey players go straight to the NHL from the draft.

Much like football and basketball, the hockey draft is great TV because it's usually the day when all the trades happen. Since baseball doesn't allow trading picks, that's another strike against the MLB draft becoming an "event".

[cincyreds]

Delmon Young, brother of Dmitri Young who plays for the Detroit Tigers is your No. 1 pick of this years MLB Draft.

He was taken by Tampa Bay.

The Brew Crew drafted Rickie Weeks from Southern U.

The Reds drafted Ryan Wagner!!!

[Daimyo]

I imagine having the draft in the middle of the season is also a strike against it. With the NFL's draft the timing is near-perfect since there isn't much else football wise going on to detract from it.

[Maple Leafs]

Interesting... the Jays were rumored to be looking at taking college third baseman Brian Snyder in the second round, at least a round or two ahead of where scouts thought he should go. Instead, Ricciardi's old friend Billy Beane jumps in and grabs Snyder in the first round.

[sterlingice]

How hard would it be to supplant Billiards or Rodeo or Lumber Sports or whatever they are showing on a Tuesday afternoon on ESPN?

SI

[Travis]

Well, what did we take, 11 pitchers out of 14 picks, better hope at least 2 of them pan out J.P.

[sterlingice]

The Royals had the opposite thing going on today with their first 5 picks being hitters after going pitcher for something like 14 straight years.

SI

[dawgfan]

The Mariners continued their strategy of going for mostly H.S. talent, especially left-handed pitchers. Despite all the studies showing the risk of drafting H.S. pitchers the Mariners continue to push that as an organizational philosophy of high-risk/high reward at draft-time.

Of course, Seattle is I believe in the top-5 of all MLB teams in producing major-league talent over I believe the last 10-20 years, so who am I to argue with them? It certainly doesn't hurt when your track record includes Griffey Jr. and A-Rod selected #1 overall...

[ISiddiqui]

dawgfan - yeah, but those were hitters .

[bigdawg2003]

I noticed Oakland took ZERO high schoolers today and Houston only took two or three. The revolution is in full force.

[dawgfan]

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
dawgfan - yeah, but those were hitters .

Very true. Seattle's success with 1st round H.S. pitchers hasn't been that great:

1998 - Matt Thornton: recovering from injury in AA, still a good prospect;
1997 - Ryan Anderson: former top prospect, trying to come back from 2nd shoulder surgery;
1996 - Gil Meche: has successfully rebounded from multiple shoulder surgeries;
1991 - Shawn Estes: has had moderate MLB success after being traded from M's farm system;
1989 - Roger Salkeld: Compared to Roger Clemens when drafted, shoulder surgery stunted his career to brief stint with Reds

On the other hand, the Mariners have had some success with college pitchers drafted in the first round:

1992 - Ron Villone: had some success at the MLB level after being traded from the M's;
1985 - Mike Campbell: brief stint with M's;
1984 - Billy Swift: pretty good career;
1981 - Mike Moore: decent career, had his greatest success after leaving Seattle

[Tigercat]

As a college baseball fan I am happy to see the majors look for more prospects at the college level and leave more HS prospects for the colleges. It will be much better for the kids in the long run too, too many HS kids are just not even close to ready for the road lifestyle.

Weeks is going to be a helluva prospect for the Bewers, hes an all tool player that has hit close to .500 for two straight years.

[dawgfan]

Originally posted by Tigercat
As a college baseball fan I am happy to see the majors look for more prospects at the college level and leave more HS prospects for the colleges. It will be much better for the kids in the long run too, too many HS kids are just not even close to ready for the road lifestyle.

Weeks is going to be a helluva prospect for the Bewers, hes an all tool player that has hit close to .500 for two straight years.

Weeks has also walked at an insanely high rate, showing outstanding plate discipline. I don't think even the Brewers can screw this kid up.

I'm also looking forward to more teams focusing on college players for the reasons you listed. It just makes way too much sense - the players are more mature mentally and physically, they've had a chance to prove themselves against better and more consistent competition, and the teams save some money in development costs since the players are theoretically closer to being MLB-ready, plus they have less negotiating leverage.

[Rich1033]

Originally posted by sterlingice
How hard would it be to supplant Billiards or Rodeo or Lumber Sports or whatever they are showing on a Tuesday afternoon on ESPN?

SI

Exactly. Yesterday they were showing what they labeled 'mathletics'. It was even worse then the spelling bee, if that is possible.

As for the draft they need to allow traing of picks to make it more interesting and to reward the small market teams. A couple years ago Prior was the best player by a wide margin but he slipped to number 2 because one team (Twins?) couldnt afford the signing bonus. That is a pretty common happening from what I have read. If they are not going to put a cap on these rookies bonuses they need to at least let teams trade down instead of selecting inferior talent.

[Cards4ever]

Originally posted by Rich1033
Exactly. Yesterday they were showing what they labeled 'mathletics'. It was even worse then the spelling bee, if that is possible.

As for the draft they need to allow traing of picks to make it more interesting and to reward the small market teams. A couple years ago Prior was the best player by a wide margin but he slipped to number 2 because one team (Twins?) couldnt afford the signing bonus. That is a pretty common happening from what I have read. If they are not going to put a cap on these rookies bonuses they need to at least let teams trade down instead of selecting inferior talent.

Yes, it was the Twins who passed on Prior.

Right now that might be true, with how Prior is doing, but, Joe Mauer was very high on most draft boards too and is doing well in the minors. Not to mention the fact that Mauer is a hometown kid that alot of locals wanted the Twins to draft.

[oykib]

The problem is not with taking high school kids. The problem is taking them high, especially pitchers.

There's no problem with taking a can't-miss position player, though. You can expect a pretty good success rate from picks like Harold Baines, Daryl Strawberry, Ken Griffey, jr., and the like.

[cincyreds]

Now that day 1 of the draft is complete.

The Reds drafted 10 pitchers 9 RHP, 1 LHP among the 20 picks that they had.

8 OF's (6 of them play CF)
1 SS and 1 1B.

Ryan Wagner will probably be a future closer or the Reds could convert him to starter.

Day 2 is today.

[oykib]

Originally posted by cincyreds
Now that day 1 of the draft is complete.

The Reds drafted 10 pitchers 9 RHP, 1 LHP among the 20 picks that they had.

8 OF's (6 of them play CF)
1 SS and 1 1B.

Ryan Wagner will probably be a future closer or the Reds could convert him to starter.

Day 2 is today.

Well... teams always try to draft CFs. The best outfielder on a team plays CF. Unless there's another prospect in that team's outfield, every Day 1 outfielder should be listed as a centerfielder.

The same goes for SS. They may project as 2B in pro ball. But they should be SS in high school or even college if it's not a big program.

Of course this is totally blown out of the water if the player has a truly tremendous bat.

[cincyreds]

Hey, oykib you been to any Japanese baseball games? How is it over there?

Fill me in bro!

[tucker342]

Last year was the only year I cared about the MLB draft, cause a kid I know was supposed to go really early(Zach Hammes) he ended up being drafted early in the second round by the Dodgers.

[oykib]

Originally posted by cincyreds
Hey, oykib you been to any Japanese baseball games? How is it over there?

Fill me in bro!

I haven't been to any pro games. I'll be going to some Hanshin Tigers games this year, though. You can bring beer into the stadium here ( or other alcohol and even food for that matter ). You can even sign it in at a 'beer counter' and the guys will pour it for you. That's what you have to do if you have a lot, actually. They don't allow you to take a case of it into the stands.

There's a very ritualistic way to root here. There are group chants that you do throughout the game. And some players have specific chants. But you are supposed to be polite at certain times and allow the visiting team's fans to chant while you stay quiet.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by Cards4ever
Yes, it was the Twins who passed on Prior.

Right now that might be true, with how Prior is doing, but, Joe Mauer was very high on most draft boards too and is doing well in the minors. Not to mention the fact that Mauer is a hometown kid that alot of locals wanted the Twins to draft.

Mauer is hitting for a high average, but little home run power (1 in 199 AB in Fort Myers). I do look forward to when he comes to New Britain, Mourneau is going to be a star it was fun to watch him the last few years.

[oykib]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
Mauer is hitting for a high average, but little home run power (1 in 199 AB in Fort Myers). I do look forward to when he comes to New Britain, Mourneau is going to be a star it was fun to watch him the last few years.

The decision to skip Prior and go with Mauer was just dumb. If there is one thing dumber than drafting high school pitchers in the first round, it's drafting young catchers in the first round. H.S. Catchers rarely make the bigs as catchers. They were rightfully lambasted by the baseball scouting press for the decision.

The real reason he wasn't drafted was that the Twins didn't want to pay him 'Mark Prior money'.

[cincyreds]

Sounds like it pretty different over there, but exciting!

Thanks oykib for sharing!

[Cards4ever]

Originally posted by oykib
The decision to skip Prior and go with Mauer was just dumb. If there is one thing dumber than drafting high school pitchers in the first round, it's drafting young catchers in the first round. H.S. Catchers rarely make the bigs as catchers. They were rightfully lambasted by the baseball scouting press for the decision.

The real reason he wasn't drafted was that the Twins didn't want to pay him 'Mark Prior money'.

It really is hard to say right now how dumb it was, don't you think? If Prior blows out his arm in the next year or so, and Mauer goes on to have a good career, then people will be saying how smart the Twins were.

IIRC, you say that teams should not be stupid and use financial control and not outspend their means. If the Twins didn't believe they could sign Prior, isn't it better to draft a guy they can sign?

[Cards4ever]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
Mauer is hitting for a high average, but little home run power (1 in 199 AB in Fort Myers). I do look forward to when he comes to New Britain, Mourneau is going to be a star it was fun to watch him the last few years.

They believe that the power will come, he is only 20 years old.

[Rich1033]

Originally posted by Cards4ever
IIRC, you say that teams should not be stupid and use financial control and not outspend their means. If the Twins didn't believe they could sign Prior, isn't it better to draft a guy they can sign?

I agree with you. If they cant afford or dont want to spend the money to sign a certain prospect they should draft the best fit. I dont fault the twins for not taking Prior, I fault the system. Hell, maybe Mauer will turn out to be a great player. I just picked that situation because it was the first that came to mind.

It is just frustrating when I think of how much better the draft would be if picks were allowed to be traded. Besides helping out the smaller teams who dont want to pay huge bonuses to unproven stars, trading would increase the interest and allow the draft to be televised. That has loads of potential. Plus a televised draft could create more interest in minor league baseball, which is always good.

[Cards4ever]

Originally posted by Rich1033

It is just frustrating when I think of how much better the draft would be if picks were allowed to be traded. Besides helping out the smaller teams who dont want to pay huge bonuses to unproven stars, trading would increase the interest and allow the draft to be televised. That has loads of potential. Plus a televised draft could create more interest in minor league baseball, which is always good.

Rich, I understand what you are saying, but to really make that something interesting, I think you would have to have ESPN show more college baseball and have the draft AFTER the CWS.

[Rich1033]

Originally posted by Cards4ever
Rich, I understand what you are saying, but to really make that something interesting, I think you would have to have ESPN show more college baseball and have the draft AFTER the CWS.

Both are good points. You are right, delaying the draft until after the CWS would be critical to its success. Plus I love watching the CWS and I would enjoy being able to watch more college ball leading up to it.

IMO, This is very much an untapped market.

[Cards4ever]

I would also enjoy College Baseball more if they would use wooden bats. I would think it would be in MLB interest to help fund that.

[oykib]

Before the public can take colllege baseball seriously, they have to stop playing with those Mickey Mouse aluminum bats. Dave Campbell made the point that MLB should invest in helping all the major amatuer leagues in high school and college use only wooden bats. It'd save them millions in reducing scouting errors. Also, there is the safety issue involved.

By his numbers, it would only cost about two million a year. I think that it'd be a bargain at five times that price.

As for signing bonuses, Everyone was as sure as you can be about Prior, who as a college pitcher is relatively low risk. You pay that kind of guy. Give him a big signing bonus. You won't have to pay him for another six years.

Small market teams still have to pay players. They just have to wisely choose who and when. I think that Pohlad was just pinching the penny too tight in that case.

[Cards4ever]

Neither of us are in on the negotiations, how do either of us know that Prior's agent told the Twins not to draft unless they were going to break the bank? Go back and look at that draft and see where Mauer was on the draft boards, he was pretty high himself. The Twins got a bunch of free publicity with the hometown kid.

[oykib]

I just don't believe all that hometown stuff. The fans like good players and winning. They really don't care where he comes from.

Who are the most popular Mariners?

Where was Yazsrtemski from?

Mauer may turn out to be Johnny Bench. But you make the choice the Twins did and nine times out of ten you get burned. Brenly let Tony Womack hit against Mariano Rivera in the most crucial at bat in the ninth inning of Game Seven. Womack slammed a double off of him. That doesn't mean it was the smartest thing in the world.

I think that the main difference between the MLB draft and the other ones is that in the baseball draft, teams are happy with getting guys who'll turn out to be solid starters at the major league level rather than trying to grab the next superstar. If you went to a major league scouting director and told him that Player A had a 75% chance of being the next Raul Mondesi and Player B had a 25% chance of being the next Brian Giles, most times the scouting director would go with Player A, even if it was the #1 overall pick.

The fact that most players, even the first-rounders, never play significant time in the majors makes the draft a totally different exercise. When you get a guy that's almost a guarunteed #2 starter on the board, you have to take him.

[Cards4ever]

Why is it so hard to discuss anything with you?

I've heard you preach your gospel about cost and budgeting since last year, if a team pays a guy and he goes bust, it's a waste of money. If a team doesn't pay a guy, they are penny pinchers. And the line changes according to how it suits you.

You even contradict yourself with this:

"The fact that most players, even the first-rounders, never play significant time in the majors makes the draft a totally different exercise. When you get a guy that's almost a guarunteed #2 starter on the board, you have to take him."

They never play significant time, but yet this guy is a guaranteed #2 Starter?

So, if the Twins believe that another guy is almost a guaranteed starting catcher, they shouldn't draft him?

[Cards4ever]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...uer042302.html

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/misc/1463116.html

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...6-toppicks.htm


I don't see anything here that says the pick was a "stupid" thing to do. Especially focus on the part where they say the Twins were unsure of Prior's signing demands.

[oykib]

The Consensus was that Prior wa the rare jewel. He was the guy that breaks the crapshoot mentality of the draft. Those guys come along only every few years. The only one I can think of that busted was Todd Van Poppel.

By the way, I am talking about Neyer and the BP crew-- Sickels and guys like that. The idea was that he wasn't an overwhelming hitting prospect. He was rated as athletic and having great catching tools. But H.S. kids can't easily projected as catchers. If he makes it as a blue-chip hitter he won't necessarily be a catcher.

Mark Prior was Ron Darling. Have you read Dollar Sign on the Muscle? Basically my reasoning is that the scouting community had Prior as a stronger Ron Darling.

I also don't get on teams for squandering money. I get on teams that make stupid investments. You can only get an edge if you gamble. But you have to invest wisely.

I never said that Mauer was a bad player. But He wasn't the can't miss that Prior was. You get a chance with a player like that and you pay him.

[oykib]

Originally posted by Cards4ever
You even contradict yourself with this:

"The fact that most players, even the first-rounders, never play significant time in the majors makes the draft a totally different exercise. When you get a guy that's almost a guarunteed #2 starter on the board, you have to take him."

They never play significant time, but yet this guy is a guaranteed #2 Starter?

I don't see what's unclear here. There is no contradiction. Most first-round players don't become significant contributors. When you have the chance to grab a can't miss, you have to take him. You unearthed the articles on Mauer. They still said Prior was better. Go dig up the Prior articles. Look at how much better he was considered.

Pohlad had been pocketing ten million a year from revenue sharing. He had the money. The reason the Twins had trouble signing guys was because they were cheap.

Let me just ask you this: Who would you have drafted, Cards?

[Cards4ever]

I would have drafted the guy I could sign.


What is it about his hitting that is not liked here:

"Offensively, he hits a lot to the opposite field, but has enough bat speed, quickness through the zone, and physical strength to hit for power as he matures. He already hits for average. His strike zone judgment is stellar: he draws lots of walks, seldom strikes out, and projects as a .300+ hitter up the ladder. Scouts and coaches rave about his work ethic and personality makeup."

[oykib]

They could have signed Prior. They were just cheap. The Torii Hunter signing was the first time the Twins have payed market value in recent memory. Even Kirby gave them a hometown discount.

Again, I never said that Mauer wasn't a good pick. I said that he was the number two pick. You don't take the number two player on the board. You take the number one. If you are telling me that they literally did not have the money to sign him-- well I'd differ with you-- but you'd have a point. But if you have the money and don't spend it, it is just a bad move.

What I take from your quote above, Cards, is that you'd have taken Prior over Mauer also. The Cubs aren't paying him five million a year. He got a big signing bonus and standard #1 pick money.

[Cards4ever]

Travis Lee, remember him? Twins didn't sign him either, took a lot of criticism about it too, where is Travis Lee today? Does he look like a guy that had all the high praise he had on draft day? You are judging everything on today. Do the Twins need Prior in the rotation? No, but it will be nice if Mauer is ready to step in and play when AJ is ready for free agency. They will be able to deal him and get more prospects or a player they need then.

Again, do you know what Prior's agent told the Twins? Agents control alot in sports today, and they certainly can discourage teams from drafting their players, especially somebody like Prior, remember JD Drew?

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Cards4ever

......remember JD Drew?

Yes, that $*#@)! mother *%(#ing piece of rat @%#$!!!!!



(anyone have any batteries?)

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by cuervo72
Yes, that $*#@)! mother *%(#ing piece of rat @%#$!!!!!



(anyone have any batteries?)

I'll supply the batteries if you'll supply the tickets. I was going to add escape vehicle but I don't think anyone will try and stop us. I don't know how that fucking asshole won his court case. Asshole, you're a guy who has never hit a ball without hearing the word "ping", take your money and play already. Fuck Scott Boras and fuck J.D. Drew.

SI (and to think, I'm not even a Philly fan)

[oykib]

I remeber Travis Lee and J.D. Drew. Drew turned out to be just what was expected of him as the top-rated player in the draft. He just doesn't stay healthy. Travis Lee wasn't rated as highly as Drew or Prior.

The Phillies should have payed Drew his ten million dollars. He was ready for the bigs in a year and a half. They have even less of an excuse than the Twins. They've been leeching money from the Philly market and the rest of MLB through revenue sharing for years.