Who would you take as your QB?

[BYU 14]

Which of the following QB's would you sign as your QB if these were your 4 options. (Stats are standardized for a 16 game season)

QB 1 - Completions 61.9%, 3737 yards, 24 TD, 17 Int, 7.2 YPA
QB 2 - Completions 59.8%, 2845 yards, 17 TD, 7 Int, 7.2 YPA
QB 3 - Completions 59.4%, 3123 yards, 23 TD, 11 Int, 6.5 YPA
QB 4 - Completions 59.5%, 2810 yards, 14 TD, 8 Int, 7.1 YPA

[Vince, Pt. II]

Context seems important, but sight unseen I'm probably going with #3.

[bhlloy]

This ^^^

Although I'd need a hell of a lot of context to make me want to take a guy with one more TD and six more INT's

[stevew]

2 is Kaepernick, right?

[Thomkal]

God wish I had read the thread before I picked #2 if that's Kap

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Context seems important, but sight unseen I'm probably going with #3.

Agreed. Those INTs for #1 are killer.

[EagleFan]

Need a lot more context to give a real evaluation.

Rushing yards
Sacks
Fumbles
Injury Prone
Red zone and 3rd down success

Where no QB on the list really stands out there is so much more to see to really make a good guess.

(They all have comp % over 50 so I know that none of these is Tebow... )

[EagleFan]

Without the context I will go with 2; best TD to Int ratio and 2nd best comp%.

[BYU 14]

These could be QB's currently with an NFL team or not.

Tebow is not one of them

This really is a very unscientific experiment with limited stats for a reason. Rushing yards, fumbles and sacks would give it away much easier, so I just listed based stats.

In regards to Kap, many people make the argument that he is unsigned because he is a distraction, but that is not going to deter NFL owners if they think you can help them win. All things being equal, then yes, they would probably go with another choice. Another thing with Kap is he was asking for starters money, which is not a safe bet right now.

You can argue others that got signed are not safe bets either, but again, sll things being equal.

[CrescentMoonie]

3, 1, 2, 4

[mckerney]

YPA?

[tarcone]

I choose 3. Compl % is not that far off any others. Good TD to Int ratio. Less than an Int a game. Decent Yardage.

Seems like a ball control type QB. If I have a stud RB, this is definitely my guy.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by mckerney

YPA?

Yeah, I think this is really important to make a final determination (esp to give context to #1).

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by mckerney

YPA?

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeah, I think this is really important to make a final determination (esp to give context to #1).

Thought I put that in, editing the original post, sorry

[General Mike]

2 maybe, hard to tell without completion and attempt numbers.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I choose 3. Compl % is not that far off any others. Good TD to Int ratio. Less than an Int a game. Decent Yardage.

Seems like a ball control type QB. If I have a stud RB, this is definitely my guy.

So looking at him specific to a scheme, good thoughts.

[vex]

Draft a different QB.

[CrescentMoonie]

With YPA my vote changes. 2, 1, 4, 3.

[General Mike]

2, 4, 1, 3

[ISiddiqui]

I kind of want to change my vote after YPA. Oh well, I picked #3 before YPA, now I'd go for #1.

[larrymcg421]

I suspected the YPA thing based off the initial numbers. Also, I don't really care about TD's without context, since #1's low TD output (relative to his INT's) could just be the result of RB's finishing off drives.

[RainMaker]

I'd go with #2. High YPA and doesn't seem to turn it over that much. TD is sort of meaningless since those could be 1 yard passes or 60 yard passes.

[Balldog]

#3
Good production and generally taking care of the ball. I didn't do the math but at quick glance he seems to have the best ATT to INT ratio.


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[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Need a lot more context to give a real evaluation.

Rushing yards
Sacks
Fumbles
Injury Prone
Red zone and 3rd down success

Where no QB on the list really stands out there is so much more to see to really make a good guess.

This, even though I did make a selection based solely on the info originally available. I'd also add scheme, quality of receivers, quality of defense, just to name a few more.

[Vince, Pt. II]

YPA not being there initially does make a difference. I would probably switch to #2 instead of #3.

[Izulde]

With the current info, I'd go #2. Lowest INT total with second best % and YPA up there.

[BYU 14]

Here are the 4 quarterbacks listed

1-Jay Cutler
2-Colin Kaepernick
3-Mike Glennon
4-Brian Hoyer

So going by the results here you could make a case that Kap is probably not signed, at least in part, because teams don't want to put up with the distraction factor, or piss off parts of their fan base. Even more telling is that nobody picked Brian Hoyer, who has never had a problem finding work, yet is the worst of the 4 statistically and definitely not a starting caliber NFL QB.

Tarcone made a good point about Glennon, who some scribes have said was a poor signing by the Bears, yet he does fit with what they want to do in Chicago. Hand the ball to a stud running back, manage a ball control offense and not turn it over, which makes him a good signing on paper. We'll see how he does on the field as the man, though he has already drawn raves from his teammates for his work rate. Something Cutler was never accused of.

I didn't do this to prove a point, just curious. I think Kap is an average NFL QB passing wise, with the added dynamic that he can hurt you with his feet, so he is probably a viable starter for a few teams in the league. That said, he is a very scheme specific QB and I don't know that many teams are willing to tailor there offense to his strengths at this point. Especially if you are looking to build for the long haul. He would make a very serviceable backup still though and could even be a gate keeper for a team grooming a young QB.

Cutler being unsigned is probably justified, never a team guy, high risk, high reward, not old at 33, but is also not what you would want as a QB to build around as a long term option.

Hoyer is nothing more than a career backup, and very pedestrian even in that role.

Glennon, potential and a good fit for the Bears, but or course potential means you haven't really done anything yet. Still he has the tools that were worth taking a chance on as a young QB who has performed well in limited duty and gives you someone who could lead a team for 7-10 years if he stays healthy and lives up to his potential.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Here are the 4 quarterbacks listed

1-Jay Cutler
2-Colin Kaepernick
3-Mike Glennon
4-Brian Hoyer

So going by the results here you could make a case that Kap is probably not signed, at least in part, because teams don't want to put up with the distraction factor, or piss off parts of their fan base.

Or teams use more than 4 (now 5) pieces of statistical information in determining if a QB is good enough.

You also make it seem like he's just looking for any opportunity and is willing to play for minsal or some lowball rate. He supposedly wants $9MM and a chance to start. How many teams can legitimately offer him that at this point, especially pre-draft?

[CrescentMoonie]

That's spurious at best to suggest that Kaepernick is a viable starter. He has to be in a somewhat gimmicky offense and being the best of those 4 doesn't mean he's actually good enough to start.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Logan

Or teams use more than 4 (now 5) pieces of statistical information in determining if a QB is good enough.

You also make it seem like he's just looking for any opportunity and is willing to play for minsal or some lowball rate. He supposedly wants $9MM and a chance to start. How many teams can legitimately offer him that at this point, especially pre-draft?

I never insinuated that at all. If you think I am advocating for a team to sign him, I am not. I think it is fairly when known that Kap is asking for starters money and not considered starter material by most teams. I never mentioned contract demands because I was just curious how people viewed these four based on a limited stat sample . I don't see any team offering him what he wants pre or post draft because he is not seen as being worth the monetary risk.

Glennon got a deal that could net him close to 15 mill and you can argue that was a reach, but there was a market for him. He could be the next Matt Ryan, or the next Brock Osweiler, but a risk the Bears were willing to take based on tools and sample size. So ultimately, yeah money and timing factor in, but it is certainly not always a tipping point.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

That's spurious at best to suggest that Kaepernick is a viable starter. He has to be in a somewhat gimmicky offense and being the best of those 4 doesn't mean he's actually good enough to start.

That was kind of my point CM, I never indicated he was a viable starter, but capable of still working in some capacity. It just won't be at the money he wants.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I think Kaepernick is actually much more serviceable than people give him credit for. He's not lighting the world on fire, but he doesn't require a gimmick offense. And he's actually much more capable of reading defenses and making touch passes than he gets credit for - which for the record shocked me as much as anyone, and I've seen a LOT of Kaepernick as a 49er fan.

He's probably an average to slightly above-average QB, but with the narrative about him, the political baggage, and the relatively low ceiling, there is not much motivation for a team to sign him.

Remember that he put those numbers up on a 2-14 49ers squad whose #1 receiver was Jeremy Kerley.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I think Kaepernick is actually much more serviceable than people give him credit for. He's not lighting the world on fire, but he doesn't require a gimmick offense. And he's actually much more capable of reading defenses and making touch passes than he gets credit for - which for the record shocked me as much as anyone, and I've seen a LOT of Kaepernick as a 49er fan.

He's probably an average to slightly above-average QB, but with the narrative about him, the political baggage, and the relatively low ceiling, there is not much motivation for a team to sign him.

Remember that he put those numbers up on a 2-14 49ers squad whose #1 receiver was Jeremy Kerley.

I agree with this to a point, but he is definitely better outside the pocket in terms of making plays, with a much better TD/Int ratio, so a scheme tailored to his mobility does suit him better. Adding in the read option as an occasional threat helps too as it makes the defense play more disciplined. Seattle does this very well with Russell Wilson, though Wilson is actually better inside the pocket.

He would not suck, but he would definitely not be as successful running a west coast scheme. And like you said, he is not a guy you are going to build around and the teams already considered playoff contenders are set at QB.

Edit: And to be fair, all NFL QB's can read a defense or they would not be there. You can take film of any QB in the league and point out when they make a great read or a crappy read. The best just don't do the latter as much as the former. But I still agree Vince, if he is willing to cut his salary demands, which are not realistic, he is still capable of lasting a few more years in the league as a backup.

[Thomkal]

Ugh, I now vote None of the Above, though Glennon might do alright.

[Thomkal]

I love too how Cutler's agent right before the draft was tweeting that Cutler was not retired and still available. Some one will pick him up eventually just because there are not enough NFL-talent QB's out there.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I agree with this to a point, but he is definitely better outside the pocket in terms of making plays, with a much better TD/Int ratio, so a scheme tailored to his mobility does suit him better. Adding in the read option as an occasional threat helps too as it makes the defense play more disciplined. Seattle does this very well with Russell Wilson, though Wilson is actually better inside the pocket.

He would not suck, but he would definitely not be as successful running a west coast scheme. And like you said, he is not a guy you are going to build around and the teams already considered playoff contenders are set at QB.

Edit: And to be fair, all NFL QB's can read a defense or they would not be there. You can take film of any QB in the league and point out when they make a great read or a crappy read. The best just don't do the latter as much as the former. But I still agree Vince, if he is willing to cut his salary demands, which are not realistic, he is still capable of lasting a few more years in the league as a backup.

Good points all - I think the reality is that there are not very many QB positions. You take in Kaepernick's skillet, age, and ceiling, and you have effectively eliminated 2/3 of the jobs in the league off the bat - 10-ish teams have a QB that is demonstrably better than him already, and another 5-10 teams have someone with a much higher potential ceiling. For the other 1/3, the team is extremely likely to either A. Have someone who isn't much worse already, or B. Be in a position to acquire someone of similar ability with less additional baggage.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Good points all - I think the reality is that there are not very many QB positions. You take in Kaepernick's skillet, age, and ceiling, and you have effectively eliminated 2/3 of the jobs in the league off the bat - 10-ish teams have a QB that is demonstrably better than him already, and another 5-10 teams have someone with a much higher potential ceiling. For the other 1/3, the team is extremely likely to either A. Have someone who isn't much worse already, or B. Be in a position to acquire someone of similar ability with less additional baggage.

Agree

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Ugh, I now vote None of the Above, though Glennon might do alright.

Nope, you'll get Kap and you'll like it

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Nope, you'll get Kap and you'll like it

Can I at least cut his hair then?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Can I at least cut his hair then?

Please and give it to me, I am sick of being shaved head guy...

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Please and give it to me, I am sick of being shaved head guy...

deal. who said the NFL draft was boring these days?

[wustin]

I picked #2 in a vacuum but that was before I read down that #1 was Cutler. I would pick Cutler over Kaepernick any given day. Kaepernick plays to not lose, at least Cutler isn't scared to sling it.

[CU Tiger]

I dont think these stats matter in who I pick.
I know thats not popular, or trendy, but for me a QB has to have arm talent, sure.

But what matters more is "Is he a leader of men" Does he command respect. Does he enhance or belittle others.

Again, Im not taking Saint Tebow because his arm sucks. But Ryan Leaf, JeMarcus Russel, and on and on had better talent than Brady, Manning, Montana etc.

For a QB he HAS to be a leader and a unifier not a divider.
Cutler and Kap are out. Not even considering. Id run a wildcat offense first with 2 Rbs