UNC Football Player Accused Of Rape.

[Ben E Lou]

Yes, I was drinking that night on Valentine’s Day. I’m under age, and I take responsibility for that. But that doesn’t give anyone the right to violate me. I did not deserve to be raped.

UNC-Chapel Hill student says she was sexually assaulted by football player | News & Observer

[wustin]

School has a history of pandering to their athletes, I wouldn't be surprised if the officers were negligent.

[DanGarion]

Am I the only one that wonders why people go to campus police instead of real police?

I feel for this girl and the treatment she is getting the school, it's a fucking joke.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Am I the only one that wonders why people go to campus police instead of real police?

In some places they are the real police, or at least have full authority and jurisdiction in conjunction with the local authorities.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Am I the only one that wonders why people go to campus police instead of real police?

I'm watching the press conference in its entirety, and that is addressed. Because it happened on campus, the Chapel Hill PD does not have jurisdiction unless the Department of Public Safety (whose officers include the campus police) decide to share jurisdiction. They have not.

Here's the news conference in its entirety. Delaney is a sharp kid.

Web only: UNC student's news conference about alleged rape :: WRAL.com

[Ben E Lou]

Oh, the other piece of this is that the DA is not pressing felony charges, but North Carolina allows individuals to swear out misdemeanor warrants against other individuals, which is what has happened here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Because it happened on campus, the Chapel Hill PD does not have jurisdiction unless the Department of Public Safety (whose officers include the campus police) decide to share jurisdiction.

fwiw, as I understand it (via my kid) that's pretty much the same as the Ole Miss campus. Oxford PD only allowed to act on campus if they're invited.

(point being simply that this situation isn't unique to UNC or anything)

[MrBug708]

Is this a new thread worthy post? Trying to figure out why this avoided a college football thread. Usc just had two players suspended while rape is being investigated.

Personal connection?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Is this a new thread worthy post? Trying to figure out why this avoided a college football thread. Usc just had two players suspended while rape is being investigated.

Personal connection?

It's dumb to have a discussion that is likely to linger on in the "week x" thread.

[MrBug708]

Seems like the board will be cluttered with various athletes arrests, no?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Seems like the board will be cluttered with various athletes arrests, no?

There's like 5 active threads a day here these days. Maybe we cross that bridge when it comes to it?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Is this a new thread worthy post? Trying to figure out why this avoided a college football thread. Usc just had two players suspended while rape is being investigated.

Personal connection?

Masina was not just suspended. Based on the investigation he has been kicked out of school permanently.

[muns]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Am I the only one that wonders why people go to campus police instead of real police?

I feel for this girl and the treatment she is getting the school, it's a fucking joke.

I'll jump in here and say that most victims don't actually report to the police, because the police don't do anything, and the DA's will say there isn't enough evidence.

Here is what I deal with in Baltimore. I have had multiple females report to me that they have been raped, only to have the police say that "you didn't fight hard enough, so its not a rape.

This Police Department Tosses Aside Rape Reports When A Victim Doesn’t Resist “To The Best Of Her Ability” - BuzzFeed News

The victim then feels that to get "justice" they have to go through the University process which as people can see isn't doing a wonderful job of dealing with it either. I know nobody in my field that went to school to handle rape cases. The entire thing is sad and very unfortunate and colleges are doing the best they can. It's real easy to shit on what colleges are doing until you have to be the one to investigate these things and see just how hard they are to deal with.

[flere-imsaho]

I've never understood why local PDs don't have jurisdiction on some college campuses. Aside from military installations, this doesn't happen anywhere else, does it? What's the rationale?

[albionmoonlight]

Random fact. I know/worked against the attorney that Ms. Robinson hired. She is in good hands in terms of a smart/aggressive advocate. Any hopes that UNC had that this would get swept under the rug are long gone.

[muns]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I've never understood why local PDs don't have jurisdiction on some college campuses. Aside from military installations, this doesn't happen anywhere else, does it? What's the rationale?

Colleges have their own Police Departments that are just like the local police, so they have jurisdiction on their own campus.

It is an interesting question because there is some crossover at different campuses. For example, I am told at Maryland that the local PD can help and assist on campus, and that the UMD police can pull people over and things like that a bit outside of the University limits.

The rationale is that a college and university setting is looked at like a bubble. You make mistakes and learn from them in college while being surrounded by that bubble. If you have your own police department you can handle things in house. I.E you know the officers, you hired them, and they should know your students. That should be a different relationship between students and University police departments vs. the local police departments. Things like alcohol and drug violations the officers might be more understanding and give more chances vs your getting locked up this very second with the local police.

On the flip side, it makes it easier to deal with things. I don't need to wait 10 mins with a University police department for an officer to show up in an emergency like I might with local police. I don't need to call the local police when there are drugs that need confiscated, it gets taken care of immediately.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I've never understood why local PDs don't have jurisdiction on some college campuses. Aside from military installations, this doesn't happen anywhere else, does it? What's the rationale?

So this will vary by school/jurisdiction.
Just local to me the two closest Universities are Clemson and Furman and they couldnt be more different.

Furman has "University Security" which are rent a cops without any real authority. Glorified mall cops, though they do have a holding center where they can hold folks until Greenville County arrives.

Clemson University police on the other hand are a state jurisdiction. They are their own municipality and their officers are employees of the state not the University. They have their own university jail and their own university municipal court room. In fact the City of Clemson police do not have jurisdiction on anything that happens on campus. Used to be a pretty funny game for underage drinking/parties to run on campus/off campus as the two departments didnt rally get along and wouldnt do joint busts so if you were at certain frat houses you knew to run out the back yard and you'd be safe as University police couldnt pursue.

All that to say it isnt as cut and dried as you might think.

[MrBug708]

Private schools, at least put in California, don't have real police, but as CU said, essentially security guards. Public Schools have sworn police officers on campus. CSU or UC system police.

[muns]

Bug and Tiger- Do you know off hand if those "rent a cops" are real police that work for the school as security officers?

That's the system my school has. For the most part all of our guys are retried police, active firefighters, EMT's, and state and local police. So while they don't act like sworn police for us normally, Maryland state law requires them to become "active and on duty" when they are a witness to a crime.

[VPI97]

I know at Virginia Tech, the VT Police Department is an accredited police force with jurisdiction over the campus. An old college buddy of mine is a Lieutenant in the force and they work with the surrounding Blacksburg PD and the Virginia State Police just as any other PD would.

[Kodos]

Here's the blurb for the Yale police:

The Yale Police Department has 87 sworn police officers with full powers of law enforcement and arrest. Our officers are armed and patrol the campus on foot, by motorcycles, on mountain bikes, and in cars equipped with computers and radio communications systems. If minor offenses involving University rules and regulations are committed by a Yale student, the police may also refer the individual to the Yale College Dean’s Office or other academic officials. Yale Police personnel work closely with local, state, and federal police agencies, including the FBI, Secret Service, and Department of Justice, on campus events, regional law enforcement matters, training, and significant investigations concerning the campus community.

[Ned Doolittle]

Well, I'm gonna say it and I'll get banned cuz many here are liberal communists who will say "great, blame the victim", but here it goes anyway:

(Note - I am a father of a 6 yr old girl)

Fathers, not mothers, need to have the "awkward" convo with their daughters before they go off to college. The conversation that consists of "you have every right to say no, but once you agree to go off alone with another boy, to his room, for a late night stroll, into his car, etc, you put yourself in a risky situation where a horny male who may or may not have control of his urges will interpret that as you being DTF. If there's any part of you that isn't interested in engaging in premarital sex (and I hope that is always the case) then you absolutely can not drink alcohol as that will make it likely you find yourself in a very bad situation."

You know the saying in professional fighting - if you don't want to leave it up to the judges to decide the fight then make sure you knock the other guy out? It applies here. If you don't want to increase your risk of getting raped then don't engage in the two factors that increase that risk - excessive alcohol/drug consumption and agreeing to be isolated with a college male. Don't leave it up to a young horny male to correctly interpret your not wanting sex.

What ever happened to the buddy system with females? I thought girls always travelled in pairs to avoid this? I blame parents for not teaching their kids better.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

Well, I'm gonna say it and I'll get banned cuz many here are liberal communists who will say "great, blame the victim", but here it goes anyway:

What a fucking moronic statement.

I've been in a situation where a drunk ass (and hot) girl jumped into a cab and came home with me. Granted, on the way home I thought maybe I was going to get lucky. But when we got there she could barely stand up. So I just put her on my couch and let her go to sleep and went on my way to my own bedroom (to assure there is no impression of anything happening). Woke up the next morning and she had no idea what happened so I explained and gave her a ride home.

Just because she was falling over drunk doesn't give me an excuse to shove my dick in her mouth or any other orifice of her body.

[Ben E Lou]

Eh, it's not either/or. It's both/and.

I'm teaching my daughters what they need to know to protect themselves (basically most of the practical stuff Ned said without the "you put yourself in a situation" piece that blames them). But if they don't heed my advice, it's not their fault that they get raped. It's the rapist's fault. Period. Put another way, if I leave the door to my house unlocked and you go in and steal stuff, it's not my fault. You're still a thief.

This isn't rocket science.

[cuervo72]

Man, it's too bad all these sons don't have parents to teach them to not be predatory.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Man, it's too bad all these sons don't have parents to teach them to not be predatory.

1. I don't have sons so that's not my deal.
2. Just like I don't leave my doors unlocked and just assume everyone is honest, I don't want my daughters to assume everyone's parents have taught them not to be predatory.

Again, this isn't rocket science.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

Well, I'm gonna say it and I'll get banned cuz many here are liberal communists who will say "great, blame the victim", but here it goes anyway:

I've missed you, Franklin.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I don't want my daughters to assume everyone's parents have taught them not to be predatory.

I'm fine with this. Women should be on guard.

Now, when do we get to the #notallmen whines?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Eh, it's not either/or. It's both/and.

I'm teaching my daughters what they need to know to protect themselves (basically most of the practical stuff Ned said without the "you put yourself in a situation" piece that blames them). But if they don't heed my advice, it's not their fault that they get raped. It's the rapist's fault. Period. Put another way, if I leave the door to my house unlocked and you go in and steal stuff, it's not my fault. You're still a thief.

This isn't rocket science.

Why in the hell is this so hard for people to understand?

If you take "rape" out of the equation it becomes easy. As a white male, it is not in my best interest to walk alone at 3 AM in the morning in certain areas of Detroit, Memphis, Miami or any other big city.

If for some reason I do end up taking a wrong turn and end up in one of those places, it isn't my fault if I get mugged and/or murdered. Even if you want to put it off as my fault, it doesn't just magically absolve the mugger/murderer from any charges because "I was stupid, had to many drinks and probably deserved to be mugged/murdered"

Why is this so hard for people to understand when it comes to rape?

[Kodos]

Your beliefs are vile, Ned. No matter what happened in the leadup to the situation, when a girl says no, that's it. Game over. If she is too drunk to make a rational decision, game over. She falls asleep, game over. Period. Anything that happens without her rational, sober consent is not her fault. It is rape.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Your beliefs are vile, Ned. No matter what happened in the leadup to the situation, when a girl says no, that's it. Game over. If she is too drunk to make a rational decision, game over. She falls asleep, game over. Period. Anything that happens without her rational, sober consent is not her fault. It is rape.

The questions are, frankly ... how many are saying no? How many are falling asleep? And if your standard is literal sobriety then sex on college campuses becomes virtually non-existent (since sobriety seems to be pretty scarce in & of itself).

It's conveniently glossed over that the "average girl" today is far more predatory about sex than the guys. And they're the first in the beer line. That's not about excusing rape, it's about legitimate questions of how many of these alleged cases turn out to be anything resembling rape as opposed to bad decision remorse. Regretting choices later does not constitute lack of consent at the time.

Sorry if that doesn't fit anybody's p.c. delusions, but that's the fucking reality.

[JPhillips]

Read This Book

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by lungs

What a fucking moronic statement.

I've been in a situation where a drunk ass (and hot) girl jumped into a cab and came home with me. Granted, on the way home I thought maybe I was going to get lucky. But when we got there she could barely stand up. So I just put her on my couch and let her go to sleep and went on my way to my own bedroom (to assure there is no impression of anything happening). Woke up the next morning and she had no idea what happened so I explained and gave her a ride home.

Just because she was falling over drunk doesn't give me an excuse to shove my dick in her mouth or any other orifice of her body.

Thank you for saving me the time to type this.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's conveniently glossed over that the "average girl" today is far more predatory about sex than the guys.

Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee but I have no idea what you mean by this. Can you explain a bit more?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

Well, I'm gonna say it and I'll get banned cuz many here are liberal communists who will say "great, blame the victim", but here it goes anyway:

Anyone else stop reading right here?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Your beliefs are vile, Ned. No matter what happened in the leadup to the situation, when a girl says no, that's it. Game over. If she is too drunk to make a rational decision, game over. She falls asleep, game over. Period. Anything that happens without her rational, sober consent is not her fault. It is rape.

How are his beliefs vile? It seems to me that he's recognizing that there are rapists out there who will rape a girl given a chance, and he wants his daughter to know that information.

Am I misinterpreting something here?

[Butter]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Anyone else stop reading right here?

No I kept reading but wish I hadn't.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Anyone else stop reading right here?

No. But I didn't bother to respond. Prejudging reactions to your statements is intellectually lazy and a good way to remain ignorant. Why should I waste my time responding to someone who's already indicated he's not interested in learning anything?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

1. I don't have sons so that's not my deal.
2. Just like I don't leave my doors unlocked and just assume everyone is honest, I don't want my daughters to assume everyone's parents have taught them not to be predatory.

Again, this isn't rocket science.

Bingo. There are two points to be made to our daughters:

1. You are not responsible if someone rapes you. Sex has to be consensual, or else it's rape.
2. Not every man out there will behave honorably. Be aware of the risks that come with certain situations. It's not your fault if you get raped in these circumstances, but you can reduce your risk by avoiding those situations and/or exercising caution.

And there's two points to be made to our sons:

1. Unless she clearly gives consent, and is in a clear-headed state of mind that allows her to make that decision, it's rape. If it feels like a grey area in either of these aspects, then be safe and don't do it.
2. If you see other guys engaging in something that looks like rape, be a real man and intervene.

Acknowledging risk is not the same thing as accepting that it's OK.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The questions are, frankly ... how many are saying no? How many are falling asleep? And if your standard is literal sobriety then sex on college campuses becomes virtually non-existent (since sobriety seems to be pretty scarce in & of itself).

It's conveniently glossed over that the "average girl" today is far more predatory about sex than the guys. And they're the first in the beer line. That's not about excusing rape, it's about legitimate questions of how many of these alleged cases turn out to be anything resembling rape as opposed to bad decision remorse. Regretting choices later does not constitute lack of consent at the time.

Sorry if that doesn't fit anybody's p.c. delusions, but that's the fucking reality.

Originally Posted by Logan

Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee but I have no idea what you mean by this. Can you explain a bit more?

If there's one guy on these boards who I feel like has his finger on the pulse of all things college-age girl, it's JiMGa.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Acknowledging risk is not the same thing as accepting that it's OK.

Stealing that line for future discussions about this.

[cuervo72]

Related reading: Judge could lose job for berating rape victim: ‘Why couldn’t you just keep your knees together?’ - The Washington Post

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Related reading: Judge could lose job for berating rape victim: ‘Why couldn’t you just keep your knees together?’ - The Washington Post

The thing that gets me about this story is how this guy was placed in a position to arbitrate cases where he admitted he didn't really have any experience, nor was he familiar with Canadian law on those matters.

[cuervo72]

Oh, I'm sure here in the states we've never elected judges who had sub-par experience.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Oh, I'm sure here in the states we've never elected judges who had sub-par experience.

He was appointed though, a situation where you'd hope that those making that decision would apply some level of diligence to his qualifications, more-so than the politicized situation of an election.

[cuervo72]

Yeah, I know. But I wonder just how worse our failure rate is there.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

How are his beliefs vile? It seems to me that he's recognizing that there are rapists out there who will rape a girl given a chance, and he wants his daughter to know that information.

Am I misinterpreting something here?

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

If you don't want to increase your risk of getting raped then don't engage in the two factors that increase that risk - excessive alcohol/drug consumption and agreeing to be isolated with a college male. Don't leave it up to a young horny male to correctly interpret your not wanting sex.

What ever happened to the buddy system with females? I thought girls always travelled in pairs to avoid this? I blame parents for not teaching their kids better.

The part where girls can't drink or be alone with a guy without inviting rape. It basically absolves guys from making responsible decisions about whether a girl is capable of consenting/not consenting to sex. It puts all the responsibility on girls. Horny boys can't be asked to control themselves. We need to teach our sons to respect women and respect their choices with regards to sexual encounters.

Obviously, yes, in the real world, girls should take reasonable steps to limit their risk of being put in bad situations, but it is equally the responsibility of boys to back off it is not clear that the girl is capable of making a rational decision to consent.

I was in a similar discussion among runners last week. It's sad that women have to worry about being attacked by a male if they decide to run alone, especially at night or in the early morning. I run alone early in the morning without giving it a second thought. Women should be free to do the same thing without worrying that they might be attacked. Once again, reasonable steps can be taken by women, but men shouldn't be absolved of responsibility for their actions. We need to teach our sons to be decent men who respect women's rights.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I've never understood why local PDs don't have jurisdiction on some college campuses. Aside from military installations, this doesn't happen anywhere else, does it? What's the rationale?

The only thing I can see is since the campus police are usually employed by the campus it gives the campus more control over the handling of the case and for the school to control things to protect their investments... But that's just me...

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by muns

Here is what I deal with in Baltimore. I have had multiple females report to me that they have been raped, only to have the police say that "you didn't fight hard enough, so its not a rape.

This Police Department Tosses Aside Rape Reports When A Victim Doesn’t Resist “To The Best Of Her Ability” - BuzzFeed News

Quoting because I don't want this to get buried. What a horseshit standard. Sorry you have to deal with this firsthand muns, and obviously what a terrible situation for the women in these cases.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Logan

Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee but I have no idea what you mean by this. Can you explain a bit more?

I guess girls today want to bone more than boys... At least to John they do.