A/B Schedule for Schools

[EagleFan]

Wondering what others thought about this topic. Mu daughter's high school switched from what was a 4x4 block schedule to an A/B alternating days schedule.

I think this was a major mistake. So far the students seem completely overwhelmed. Between the confusion it has caused and each teacher giving two days worth of homework it seems to be complete chaos.

Last year had a period of adjustment for her as the longer classes were something she needed to get used to but that adjustment was quick and she settled in quite easily. I don't see that adjustment happening quite as well this year.

Any thoughts on this scheduling?

[cuervo72]

We had it in our middle school for a year or two. Wasn't a fan. They don't do it anymore, so presumably few were.

[britrock88]

Off-hand, I would think it to be preferable to semester-based blocking.

I know APs don't factor into the calculation for a significant portion of high schoolers, but with those exams taking place at the beginning of May, you want to give kids as much time as possible to get through course content for that. With either traditional 7/8-period scheduling or A/B blocking, you only have a handful of dead weeks at the end of the school year, post-exams. (This may be exacerbated, however, by the continued trend to push school starts back toward or past Labor Day for tourism-related or other reasons.) With semester-based blocking, you either have to have kids take APs in the fall and wait months to test, cram the course into the much more truncated spring semester, or build an honors-AP sequence leading into the tests.

More generally speaking, spreading course content out over an entire school year seems better. The evidence is strong about the negative impact of the summer break for students' math and reading abilities; once students get to high school, wouldn't a potential December Y1 - January Y3 gap be terrible for something like Spanish, math, or band?

The problem I perceive from your post is that teachers are "capitalizing" on an extra day between classes by doubling up on homework. That seems silly, given that there are the same 90 days of 90-minute classes you would have in block (making some scheduling assumptions here).

[bob]

Originally Posted by britrock88

(This may be exacerbated, however, by the continued trend to push school starts back toward or past Labor Day for tourism-related or other reasons.)

This is interesting to me, because in the Atlanta area, things are moving the other way. Cobb County schools actually start on July 31st next year.

[Butter]

Yes, over 2 years our school starts have moved from around Labor Day, to August 11th this year.

[cuervo72]

Ours started Aug 22 this year. If Gov. Hogan's decree sticks, that will be after Labor Day next year. I like that in theory (tradition), but I do really wonder how the school is going to fit everything in, especially with AP classes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Ours started Aug 22 this year. If Gov. Hogan's decree sticks, that will be after Labor Day next year. I like that in theory (tradition), but I do really wonder how the school is going to fit everything in, especially with AP classes.

I would imagine that going back to a sane, rational start date would include the elimination of the trend of having a 1-3 day break about every third or fourth week week that seemed to go with the dead of summer starts.

You could make up quite a few days with a return to traditional breaks.

[cuervo72]

Oh yeah, I told my kids they could likely say goodbye to one of their breaks.

Here's the calendar for '16-'17: http://www.fcps.org/about/documents/...ar20162017.pdf

They still get out June 16, which isn't exactly early. They already go to school on Columbus Day and Veterans Day.

I'll have to check to see if Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur are negotiable or if they are state-mandated days off. I had these off as a kid, but I think there were a few more Jews in suburban Philly than there are in Frederick Co. Fair Day? I can't see FCPS giving that up. Election Day is off the table. So we're probably talking some of the teacher work/development days or a shortening of winter and/or spring breaks.

[QuikSand]

The only MD school holidays mandated by state law are:

MLK, Prez, Good Friday through Monday, Memorial Day, Thanksgiving & Friday, and Christmas Eve through Dec 31

The debate here is going to be lively.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Oh yeah, I told my kids they could likely say goodbye to one of their breaks.

Here's the calendar for '16-'17: http://www.fcps.org/about/documents/...ar20162017.pdf

They still get out June 16, which isn't exactly early. They already go to school on Columbus Day and Veterans Day.

I'll have to check to see if Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur are negotiable or if they are state-mandated days off. I had these off as a kid, but I think there were a few more Jews in suburban Philly than there are in Frederick Co. Fair Day? I can't see FCPS giving that up. Election Day is off the table. So we're probably talking some of the teacher work/development days or a shortening of winter and/or spring breaks.

I'm trying to think back a bit here. I know we always started after Labor Day, I know we were always out somewhere around the first week of June.

We got 3 days at Thanksgiving, got around 10 days for Christmas. Typically three for spring break IIRC. Usually 2-3 in-service days a year, plus Good Friday, and Memorial Day.

Now lemme back out the math on that a little, to see my recollection adds up.

That's 21 days off, give or take. Roughly 40 weeks in that time frame, so give or take 200 week days. And that brings us back to the 180 day requirement that we had. So it seems to add up right.

[JonInMiddleGA]

fwiw, I abhorred A/B scheduling personally but as a student my kid seemed to adapt pretty quickly.

Took about 3-4 weeks the first year, at most, and somehow he had it all figured out. I never once in all his years of it (which was 5th thru 12th) had the slightest idea where he was supposed to be on a given day, with the exception of Wednesday mornings which had an assembly & club day component.

[General Mike]

No clue what a 4 x 4 session or an A/B schedule is.

When I was in high school/ middle school, we had a 6 day cycle. In middle school, it was more of a 2 day cycle, as you either had full year, every day classes (180 sessions), full year, alternating day classes (90 sessions), or half year, alternating day classes (45 sessions). In high school. I think the only reason for the cycle was science labs. Regular science classes had 1 lab period every 6 days, honors had 2, and AP had 3 lab periods. 8 periods of 40 minutes. I think.

[MrBug708]

You guys have some weird ass schedules in other states. We started late August, had Labor Day off, and don't have another day off until Veteran's Day.

My wife has block scheduling at her school and while she had it as a student there, it seems like a pain in the ass.

[JonInMiddleGA]

fwiw, I threw my recollections of our 80s era scheduling out to my social media. About the only correction I got was that Thanksgiving was often just Thu/Fri instead of W/Th/F.

And some years, I realized, football season seems to have started the week before school. (last Fri in August openers began in 1974)

[cougarfreak]

I've taught on both. I hated the A/B block................a lot of it was, if a kid missed a Thursday, I didn't see him/her until Monday, and I hadn't seen them since the previous Tuesday. It just made for a mess, and I saw little benefit to it. We are now on a straight 4 X 4 block. Kids love it, teachers love it, and I think it prepares them better for college. Our kids have the chance to earn 32 credits in a high school career, which gives them more electives to choose from. For a lot of the AP courses, we run them all year, which leads to higher AP scores (and they earn 2 HS credits in these courses). Kids also like only being responsible for 4 classes in a day/semester, they say it's easier to keep track of work, and focus on those 4 classes. It works very well for us.

[PilotMan]

Isn't this entire thing put in motion because of shrinking budgets?

We've gone from quarters with 7 full classes, and electives changing every quarter down to semesters with 6 classes and one rotating study break each day. And electives are preassigned with repeats allowed. My son has now had Art 3 straight years, in what is pretty much the same class.

It seems to me that the tinkering of the schedules has less to do with college prep and much more to do with budget manipulation. Is that right?

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Isn't this entire thing put in motion because of shrinking budgets?

We've gone from quarters with 7 full classes, and electives changing every quarter down to semesters with 6 classes and one rotating study break each day. And electives are preassigned with repeats allowed. My son has now had Art 3 straight years, in what is pretty much the same class.

It seems to me that the tinkering of the schedules has less to do with college prep and much more to do with budget manipulation. Is that right?

Not in our case. We are allocated based on kids and ADA, not on numbers of classes. I'd think that's the case anywhere.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

fwiw, I threw my recollections of our 80s era scheduling out to my social media. About the only correction I got was that Thanksgiving was often just Thu/Fri instead of W/Th/F.

And some years, I realized, football season seems to have started the week before school. (last Fri in August openers began in 1974)

We always got w/r/f and monday off because it was the first day of hunting season.

edit, maybe weds was a half day.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

We always got w/r/f and monday off because it was the first day of hunting season.

edit, maybe weds was a half day.

We just had plenty of one-day "flu" symptoms, though honestly I don't think anybody questioned any hunting related absence ever.

We were allowed 30 absences a year so it wasn't like there was a big issue with running out for most folks.

(Man, my senior year was a trip, the energy I put into making sure I didn't leave any of those 30 on the table in any period. The final couple months I was showing up for 1st & 2nd, leaving for 3rd & 4th, coming back for 5th & 6th. Officially, I had a really active & engaged orthodontist)

[cuervo72]

30!

I should have had perfect attendance my senior year, but for whatever reason didn't get credit for it. I think I must have come in late one day and not been counted once I got there.

I was a very boring high schooler.

I did get out of the building though -- to go to and from the CC to take Calc III. That kind of messed with my schedule, but got me out of gym (we had to have it each year, but I had football then cheerleading and lifting so I got a waiver; kids only need one credit of it now). I only had lunch one year out of three. Could have for part of another but just opted to take study hall.

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Kids also like only being responsible for 4 classes in a day/semester, they say it's easier to keep track of work, and focus on those 4 classes. It works very well for us.

This could be a godsend for my daughter, who has a bit of a time dealing with too much or keeping things straight (she's smart, but may well have ADD and anxiety). Only having to keep track of 3/4 classes instead of 6/7? Should be a lot easier.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

30!

I should have had perfect attendance my senior year, but for whatever reason didn't get credit for it. I think I must have come in late one day and not been counted once I got there.

I was mentally done with HS well in advance of actually completing it. That could account for needing a 100 on a geometry exam in order to graduate on time.

I made a 110 ... and left the room forgetting every single thing about the subject I ever knew.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

I've taught on both. I hated the A/B block................a lot of it was, if a kid missed a Thursday, I didn't see him/her until Monday, and I hadn't seen them since the previous Tuesday. It just made for a mess, and I saw little benefit to it. We are now on a straight 4 X 4 block. Kids love it, teachers love it, and I think it prepares them better for college. Our kids have the chance to earn 32 credits in a high school career, which gives them more electives to choose from. For a lot of the AP courses, we run them all year, which leads to higher AP scores (and they earn 2 HS credits in these courses). Kids also like only being responsible for 4 classes in a day/semester, they say it's easier to keep track of work, and focus on those 4 classes. It works very well for us.

The 4x4 seemed fine. They had their primary class all year long and the other three were different in first and second half of the year. No idea why they changed, seems like someone read about it somewhere and thought they were going to "make a splash" by making this change.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

We just had plenty of one-day "flu" symptoms, though honestly I don't think anybody questioned any hunting related absence ever.

We were allowed 30 absences a year so it wasn't like there was a big issue with running out for most folks.

(Man, my senior year was a trip, the energy I put into making sure I didn't leave any of those 30 on the table in any period. The final couple months I was showing up for 1st & 2nd, leaving for 3rd & 4th, coming back for 5th & 6th. Officially, I had a really active & engaged orthodontist)

I think you were allowed to take 3 more excused hunting absences each year.

Also I don't know if I mentioned it here but l know that at one point while I was in HS there was a "student smoking pass" you could get as long as you were 18 and your parents signed off. I wanna say this ended before I hit senior high so maybe by 1990 we figured out smoking among teenagers wasn't cool.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Also I don't know if I mentioned it here but l know that at one point while I was in HS there was a "student smoking pass" you could get as long as you were 18 and your parents signed off. I wanna say this ended before I hit senior high so maybe by 1990 we figured out smoking among teenagers wasn't cool.

We didn't have that form of it but my first year at the high school (which was 8th grade but that's a whole different subject) there was still a smoking area for students. That ended, IIRC, the following year so 1981. Mostly it just moved things from outside by the ag ed building to the bathrooms inside.

[General Mike]

So I looked up what the high school in my town does. Seems like a bunch of nonsense to me.

http://www.franklinboe.org/cms/lib/N...20Schedule.pdf

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by General Mike

So I looked up what the high school in my town does. Seems like a bunch of nonsense to me.

http://www.franklinboe.org/cms/lib/N...20Schedule.pdf

Here's the argument FOR that or a 7 or 8 period day. Teachers get kids all year. They can build relationships, because they have kids over a longer period. We've not had any issue/complaints with that.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

They can build relationships

Very important for application recommendations.

I feel like my son is doing well there, despite the 4x4* scheduling. He has had the same band teacher for three years, and has him for marching/jazz band (he's also starting to go to a jazz meeting once a week at night at the local college where his teacher is also on staff). His pre-calc teacher last year is going to be his AP Calc teacher all of this year (also on staff at the college), and he had his AP World teacher all soph year. AP Chem and AP Physics are also year-long, so they could be options as well.


* Or whatever you want to call this; a couple of sources I looked up are say the fourth block is for "planning." Our school has normal 1st and 2nd periods, then a "2.5" period which is shorter and acts basically as a study hall, but teachers can request students come to them for that period. Fridays this is when various clubs meet. Third period includes lunch, which can be the first, second, or final third of the class. The period is longer than the others, so after the time for lunch instructional time is the same as the others. Then 4th period is normal.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Very important for application recommendations.

By the same token though it can also sink them, depending upon the relationship.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Here's the argument FOR that or a 7 or 8 period day. Teachers get kids all year. They can build relationships, because they have kids over a longer period. We've not had any issue/complaints with that.

I think my bigger issue with it, is that it just seems like it would be so confusing about where you are supposed to be. I agree with the idea that you will learn more from having an 80 minute class every other day, then a 40 minute class every day, but having period one be from 7:30 to 8:30 one day, 8:30 to 9:30 day 2 and then 9:30 to 10:30 the third day seems like it would cause issues.