04-15-2016, 12:34 PM | #1 | ||
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Artificial Intelligence in Movies, Books, Culture, and Reality
I am thinking a lot about artificial intelligence lately. Turns out I, like lots of people, am really intrigued by the potential storylines it leads to -- I got a lot out of the recent movies Her and Ex Machina, I'd recommend both of them pretty highly.
I recently read a book on the topic, Superintelligence, which was dry but did carry out a good deal of the (for lack of a more inspiring term here) nuts-and-bolts of how this could move forward in the years and decades ahead. I am just now getting into another book, M. John Harrison's Light. I can tell already that this will be similarly thought provoking, if not overwhelming, on similar fronts. So, for some reason, I decided to start a thread on it here. Maybe just force of old habit. I have to think that if the thread tends to ward talking about the movies, especially, this will get spoiler-y. Consider yourself forewarned. |
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04-15-2016, 12:36 PM | #2 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Semi-related thread from some time ago: Front Office Football Central
If someone could penetrate the warnings about malware that I'm getting and post the contents of that article, I'd be grateful... it was a really engaging short story. Last edited by QuikSand : 04-15-2016 at 01:48 PM. |
04-15-2016, 12:40 PM | #3 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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Which article?
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
04-15-2016, 12:47 PM | #4 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
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Is there something weird going on with the board where people try to post links and it just redirects to the board? I've seen this happen twice this week.
Perhaps the AI does not want us to leave. EVER. |
04-15-2016, 01:20 PM | #5 |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Shit, fellas. We all knew it'd happen eventually. After all these years, it's finally become self-aware. It's time shut it down. Shut. It. Down!! Yeah, thanks for the warning. We've seen the movies, read the books. This never turns out well for us.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
04-15-2016, 01:49 PM | #6 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Corrected link above.
Firmware auto-updated to v 6.022x23. All your base are belong to us. One more firmware update needed, apparently. Last edited by QuikSand : 04-15-2016 at 03:11 PM. |
04-15-2016, 02:03 PM | #7 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
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Only x22?
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04-15-2016, 02:57 PM | #8 | |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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This is what I got for ya, Quik:
Quote:
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint Last edited by cartman : 04-15-2016 at 02:59 PM. |
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04-15-2016, 03:03 PM | #9 |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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04-15-2016, 03:06 PM | #10 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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That was from the other side of the malware ridden minefield link in the old FOFC thread he posted
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
04-15-2016, 03:16 PM | #11 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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The article was a small webpage, posted as part of an online mystery/puzzle launched by the film company behind the movie A.I., many years ago. I have forgotten most of the stuff from that -- but several of us on this forum spent some time working through clues and so forth, and many of them led to various websites that were related to the mystery story (that itself was completely unrelated to the film).
Thanks for posting, cartman - I still think that little short story is captivating. |
04-15-2016, 03:23 PM | #12 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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So, getting back on track...
In this genre, I think it's artistically interesting to make the case for the "blue pill" route. We all come in thinking that real is where it's at, synthetic is lesser and wrong. That story above, in just a few paragraphs, makes a decent thin case that the woman is arguably right, in observing "I don't care. I just want to be her. I just want to curl up inside the feed and be young again and beautiful and in love." I think Her does the same thing. It goes from a movie about "some guy falls in love with Siri" into something a lot more complicated, and a lot more relatable than I think you'd expect from a couple hours in the theater. The scenes at the end of the movie, as there's a creeping feeling of the natural/real being irretrievably overtaken by the synthetic/artificial... that's awfully well done, isn't it? That makes the whole movie, to me. |
04-15-2016, 05:47 PM | #13 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Far from home
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I couldn't help but think about AMC's Humans from last summer as well. It told the Ms.B story in a bit of a different way through the lens of the family, but similar questions were asked about the place of synths (the bots) and how much care should be given them in their life and as they become obsolete with new synths taking their place. I thought it was intriguing as an idea for a show and it has apparently been renewed for another season.
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04-15-2016, 10:28 PM | #14 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
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If the synths advance too much and don't become obsolete, they'll eventually need new humans. Kind of like a Highlander dilemma.
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04-16-2016, 07:16 AM | #15 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: St. Paul, MN
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I found these to be interesting reads a month or two ago when I happened on them. I honestly don't know what to think about it:
The Artificial Intelligence Revolution: Part 1 - Wait But Why The Artificial Intelligence Revolution: Part 2 - Wait But Why |
04-18-2016, 06:58 AM | #16 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
Those articles are excellent, thanks for posting! In one sense, we seem to have hit the point of no return on an eventual AI which could probably do great things for us, but also cause our extinction. In another sense, it seems we'll get the outcome we deserve collectively. It is essentially Pandora's box with the ultimate Rhorschach test inside it. I loved the short story about the handwriting AI. It is precisely the type of unintended consequence that makes advanced AI something we should be talking about, as a global conversation. Much like global warming. I'm more in the camp that thinks we're more likely to merge ourselves with an advanced form of AI (and synthetic "parts") rather than having it in some sort of Oracle box...where it could be our undoing. I think as wild as that may seem to us....2 or 3 generations from now, our descendants won't find it nearly as bizarre. But I'm as pessimistic as optimistic about it. Shurg |
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04-18-2016, 07:54 AM | #17 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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To me, the most interesting thing about contemplating the future of AI is considering issues and beliefs that we have now and hold as central, but which in time might look archaic.
Dumb sports example - we've seen Tommy John surgery go from an outre experimental thing to a fairly routine affair, with many players becoming even more effective after their year (or less now) of recovery time. There's speculation that some youngish pitchers are getting it done as a precaution... and whispers that at some point it could be a reasonable career move to just go ahead do it when you're 20. We're still at the point where that seems weird and off-putting. But does that necessarily have to sit that way with us forever? Think about societal attitudes about in-vitro fertilization. That overcame a big hurdle once the first "test tube babies" were born and turned out to not be monsters. But over time, that has moved from crazy sci-fi, to cutting edge, to (in some places) an essential coverage for standard heath insurance. And it didn't take too long, societally. So, is genetic guiding next? We're getting awfully close to having the ability to do that, right? Will my daughters have an option to select traits in their kids? or will it take one more generation? Will this be reserved for the super wealthy or ethically pliable, or will it become a standard practice everywhere? And what do we do about the hint of eugenics that arises from that? Anyway... all this stuff interests me (even though not necessarily confined to the AI discussion at hand). And with AI, right now we are really hung up on the difference between natural and synthetic. But over time, I wonder if that mental barrier might start to slide away, and in 50-100 years people look back on the way we felt up until now as sort of quaint and old-fashioned. |
04-18-2016, 08:15 AM | #18 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
I don't think basic prenatal care is even standard/affordable for all right now. I think this would be reserved for a decent stretch (and could even further unbalance the playing field).
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04-18-2016, 09:35 AM | #19 |
Grizzled Veteran
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So how does capitalism work when robots do all our menial tasks? In 50 years robots will probably be doing all our fast food and trucking jobs plus much much more.
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04-18-2016, 10:20 AM | #20 | |
College Starter
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Quote:
That's part of the very implications we need to be discussing more in society, imho. Even software development jobs, at some point sooner than we may suspect, could become mostly automated with only the most narrow or creative elements requiring a person. Then what do we do with all those CS engineers? Or how about medical jobs at some point, farming from advances in 3d printing, etc. We might just engineer ourselves into unemployment without a social structure that can adapt with these changes. And quite honestly, we've hit the point where most people over a certain age (looking at our politicians and corporate leaders mainly), won't intuitively grasp the magnitude until it's well past needed. Because at some point, we will likely hit the wall of "there isn't something else" for people to actually do. Are we even prepared for that socially, economically, or logistically? I don't think we're even close, and fear that the political climate we have today is largely because we don't have answers for people outside of demonizing some group of others. We just don't need a million people to do anything really, without massive amounts of retraining and bold initiatives to strive for with that training. We can't even largely agree on an efficient health care system in the US it seems. It's akin to the saying that a recession is when your neighbor loses their job, and a depression is when you do. The very real concentration of industries and capital only accelerates and further perpetuates this in my view Not intending to turn this into a political conversation, but it does require some real reflection on our old ideologies and whether they are still able to serve us in this day. |
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04-18-2016, 10:45 AM | #21 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
I have had this argument with friends for a while. Technology ensures socialism or a division in classes that will result in rioting, violence, etc. |
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04-18-2016, 12:27 PM | #22 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Apr 2001
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I don't know if we have any history majors who would know, but were these kinds of conversations going on in the midst of the Industrial Revolution?
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04-18-2016, 12:46 PM | #23 | |
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Quote:
It likely starts with steps to reduce population that is surplus to requirements. (Probably should have started that quite a way back frankly)
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04-18-2016, 01:49 PM | #24 |
Head Coach
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So, all retirees then?
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04-18-2016, 02:00 PM | #25 | |
Registered User
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Quote:
Not to side track things too much, but I still haven't seen much to suggest that Tommy John has made more than 20% of the pitchers who have had it even as effective as previously, let alone more effective. Scanning the names on this list from even pre-2015 (when players likely would be back) doesn't really seem to show even a small percentage of players who were more/as effective prior to surgery. https://mlbreports.com/tj-surgery/ |
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04-18-2016, 02:02 PM | #26 |
Registered User
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04-18-2016, 02:48 PM | #27 |
Coordinator
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Location: NJ
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Sex robots will help curb reproduction.
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04-18-2016, 06:01 PM | #28 |
Hall Of Famer
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I'm thinking births actually ... no newborn has a voting history after all. Natural attrition will take care of the retirees.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
07-11-2016, 11:06 AM | #29 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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bump?
I'm a sucker for CK, this book got me thinking about this could-have-been conversation a bit... http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...if-we-re-wrong |
10-12-2016, 08:49 PM | #30 | ||||
Grizzled Veteran
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Pretty interesting discussion here, a good bit devoted to AI:
https://www.wired.com/2016/10/presid...ito-interview/ Just pulling out a few interesting parts: Quote:
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In self-driving cars: Quote:
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10-12-2016, 09:36 PM | #31 | |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Quote:
Hmmm... it was somewhat slow-paced, and I lost momentum at some point and dropped it. And then never found a window to pick it back up. But I have thought about it a bit since then. Might need to give it a second go. |
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12-08-2017, 09:32 AM | #32 | |
Head Coach
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We're getting closer to realizing the dangers of an overwhelming AI.
In just 4 hours, Google's AI mastered all the chess knowledge in history Quote:
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