Another attack - This time in Brussels

[SirFozzie]

Brussels Zaventem airport rocked by two explosions - BBC News

ward markey on Twitter: "echt #wtf daar in #zaventem :-( https://t.co/2AGTBBA0xs" photo of the area.

Wonder if its the remnant of the cell that they partially broke when they arrested the last Paris attacks guy.

Apparently several dead reported: Cell phone video of the area, post blast

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/712185195382702080

[Groundhog]

I'd imagine there's a good chance they'll push forward and planned attacks given the guy they arrested is apparently talking freely.

[Solecismic]

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. Unconfirmed reports of "Arabic" being shouted before the explosions. Possibly another attack site at a metro station.

What a world we live in. How do people justify violence against people they've never even met?

[SirFozzie]

"God Wills It".

[SirFozzie]

And yes, explosions reported at a Brussels Metro station

edit: Death toll is now 23. (10 at Metro station, 13 at airport)

[SirFozzie]

BBC reporting one suicide bomber and the other was an explosive device at the airport.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

What a world we live in. How do people justify violence against people they've never even met?

It's pretty simple really. Islamic leaders are preaching that all non-believers are sub-human and pure evil.

[EagleFan]

Animals.

Thoughts go out to the citizens of Belgium and victims of the attacks.

[RainMaker]

Religion of Peace strikes again?

[Dutch]

...and again....and again...

[Thomkal]

my thoughts go out to all our international members who might have been caught up in this.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I've heard that all of my friends in Brussels are okay, though I'm still waiting to hear from one.

The metro station that got hit was just a few hundred meters up the street from my old office. The office itself is inside the sealed-off zone.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Religion of Peace strikes again?

Indeed.

[Alf]

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

What a world we live in. How do people justify violence against people they've never even met?

A lot of mentally weak/unstable people being manipulated by evil men in the name of religion. A dangerous mix.

Can't imagine the sheer terror the poor victims went through, just trying to live their lives. Thoughts and prayers to those in Brussels.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'd imagine there's a good chance they'll push forward any planned attacks given the guy they arrested is apparently talking freely.

This was my first thought as well. I'd imagine they had a bigger plan for his attack and with the recent capture decided to just go for whatever they had ready in terms of resources.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I've heard that all of my friends in Brussels are okay, though I'm still waiting to hear from one.

The metro station that got hit was just a few hundred meters up the street from my old office. The office itself is inside the sealed-off zone.

The one friend I was waiting to hear from was actually on a flight, with his family, from Brussels to Florida. They must have taken off /just/ before things went down at the airport.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Religion of Peace strikes again?

I think it's not specific to Islam in that sense. Any religion can be hijacked like this.

The problem lies when there's an expectation that the government enforce religion. In the US and in many nations around the world, religion is private. But in many Islamic areas, sharia is demanded. That empowers the people to interpret and enforce their religion. When religion is private, it is almost always peaceful.

We're not at war with Islam. We (and many other countries) are at war with people who demand sharia.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The one friend I was waiting to hear from was actually on a flight, with his family, from Brussels to Florida. They must have taken off /just/ before things went down at the airport.

Wow. Glad to hear they're ok.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

We're not at war with Islam.

And that mistaken line of reasoning is why we have as many problems as we have.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I think it's not specific to Islam in that sense. Any religion can be hijacked like this.

But none currently are. It's the only one that consistently produces these kinds of attacks in the name of its religion.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But none currently are. It's the only one that consistently produces these kinds of attacks in the name of its religion.

Well, the ones that do it in the name of Christianity are just labeled as kooks, not a reflection on the religion.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And that mistaken line of reasoning is why we have as many problems as we have.

Until I see Islamic leaders seriously do something to change the mindset and ACTUALLY change the mindset, I'm inclined to agree. So yeah, basically that won't ever happen because it's simply too late. It's been hijacked completely and I just don't see any sort of "modernization" effort going on to make me think it's existence is anything but Boolean logic with regard to it's integration in the modern world. You want to talk about the dominance of elitism, Islam is a clear case of the 1% being greater than the 99%. So I agree with the terrorist's choices they insist are available, they should either exist and dominate all or not exist.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cartman

Well, the ones that do it in the name of Christianity are just labeled as kooks, not a reflection on the religion.

Terrorist attacks in the name of Christianity are so small compared to Islam these days.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Terrorist attacks in the name of Christianity are so small compared to Islam these days.

Doesn't change the fact that there seems to be a line of thinking that -
ISIS/Al-Qaeda/Islamic terrorist group commits an attack: have to wipe out 1.6 billion people, they all think and act the same way
Christian terrorist commits an attack: poor misguided souls, must have some sort of isolated mental issue

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Terrorist attacks in the name of Christianity are so small compared to Islam these days.

And that's because the people in the countries where Christianity is the leading religion insist on a government with a separation between church and state.

This isn't something that happens overnight.

When a human being is born, it's a bundle of potential. But it's also weak and vulnerable. If you fill it with hate in those crucial first few years, you will turn it into a machine of hatred.

That's what we're facing out there.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cartman

Doesn't change the fact that there seems to be a line of thinking that -
ISIS/Al-Qaeda/Islamic terrorist group commits an attack: have to wipe out 1.6 billion people, they all think and act the same way
Christian terrorist commits an attack: poor misguided souls, must have some sort of isolated mental issue

Christian terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of Islamist terrorist attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Christians don't even have a list on Wiki. Just for reference though by googling "major Christian terrorist attacks" and "major Islamic terrorist attacks" those were the first two to pop up for each.

It's pretty much night and day unless you want to discuss the Crusades or Colonization of Africa and the New World. But....those are history, not current events.

[cartman]

I guess I forgot that the UK turned Ireland into a glass parking lot to deal with the IRA.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cartman

I guess I forgot that the UK turned Ireland into a glass parking lot to deal with the IRA.

I don't want muslims to die, I want somebody to hold their hand and bring them out of the dark ages though. Because they are clearly incapable of doing it themselves.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I don't want muslims to die, I want somebody to hold their hand and bring them out of the dark ages though. Because they are clearly incapable of doing it themselves.

Tough when people in civilized countries compete to show who is the most enlightened by defending a backwards ass culture all because the people have a darker tone of skin.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Tough when people in civilized countries compete to show who is the most enlightened by defending a backwards ass culture all because the people have a darker tone of skin.

Many of those countries were civilized places in the '60s and '70s. To insist that they are irredeemable shows a lack of knowledge of how things got fucked up there over the past 40-50 years (hint: western meddling played a big part). But hey, I'm being so politically incorrect, how cool!

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cartman

Many of those countries were civilized places in the '60s and '70s. To insist that they are irredeemable shows a lack of knowledge of how things got fucked up there over the past 40-50 years (hint: western meddling played a big part). But hey, I'm being so politically incorrect, how cool!

Wrong. I understand why you say that, I mean, it's been thumped into our brains for 40-50 years, but there is nothing they can't solve themselves if they wanted to. They don't want to. Period. They are responsible for Brussels. Not "western meddling".

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cartman

Many of those countries were civilized places in the '60s and '70s. To insist that they are irredeemable shows a lack of knowledge of how things got fucked up there over the past 40-50 years (hint: western meddling played a big part). But hey, I'm being so politically incorrect, how cool!

No, they were not civilized places in the 60's and 70's.

[cartman]

Do some research on what Kabul, Tehran, and Beirut were like back then. Night and day to what they look like currently.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cartman

Do some research on what Kabul, Tehran, and Beirut were like back then. Night and day to what they look like currently.

The Shaw era...different, but "reactionaries" squashed that, not 'Murica.

[ISiddiqui]

Errrr... the Iran revolution only occurred because the US manufactured a coup to kick out Mossadegh, who was too left leaning for us, and replace him with a brutal dictator that made a reactionary revolution possible. So at least in Iran that was our fault.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Errrr... the Iran revolution only occurred because the US manufactured a coup to kick out Mossadegh, who was too left leaning for us, and replace him with a brutal dictator that made a reactionary revolution possible. So at least in Iran that was our fault.

Yes, it was our fault for trying to bring them out of the dark ages. Islamic leaders slammed the breaks on that, turned the horses around, and went right back to where they were. No internal attempt since to fix themselves.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cartman

Doesn't change the fact that there seems to be a line of thinking that -
ISIS/Al-Qaeda/Islamic terrorist group commits an attack: have to wipe out 1.6 billion people, they all think and act the same way
Christian terrorist commits an attack: poor misguided souls, must have some sort of isolated mental issue

What is your definition of a "Christian terrorist" vs. an "Islamic terrorist?"

I'd argue this:

Man bombs an abortion clinic and cites his radical Christian beliefs, taught to him by Rev. So-and-So at XYZ Temple, as the reason = Christian terrorism
Man bombs a subway car while shouting "Allahu Akbar", research reveals his religious beliefs were radicalized under the teaching of Sheikh ABC = Muslim terrorism

Man shoots up a church in Charleston because he wants to start a race war. Man is a "Christian" in the sense that he is an American and not Muslim, Jewish, or Atheist, but hasn't even been to a worship service other than maybe Christmas and Easter in years= Murderer, but not a "Christian terrorist"

Man shoots up his workplace in California because he is mad about not getting a promotion. Man is Muslim by culture, but rarely attends Mosque = Murderer, but not a "Muslim terrorist"

Man shoots up his workplace in California because he has become increasingly radicalized over the years and is pledging allegiance to ISIS...

You get the idea.

I don't buy the line of thinking that every act of mass murder committed by someone who was born "Christian" is a "Christian Terrorism." If the religious beliefs are motivations for the attack, then it's religious terrorism. If the religion had nothing to do with it and the person just happened to be one of the however-many-billion people in a particular religious bucket, I'm not associating it with that religion. That makes no sense.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Yes, it was our fault for trying to bring them out of the dark ages. Islamic leaders slammed the breaks on that, turned the horses around, and went right back to where they were. No internal attempt since to fix themselves.

We tried to bring them out of dark ages? You literally have no idea what you are talking about. A brutal dictator with a secret police that killed political opponents that we supported, while overthrowing a democratically elected European-style Social Democrat - I mean that's bringing them INTO the dark ages.

[RainMaker]

Lebanon had a massive civil war in the 70's. Kabul was in constant turmoil once they pulled away from help the West provided in building up their infrastructure. And though the Shah was bad, they chose a government that went in a worse direction.

This is a part of the world that has been at conflict for much longer than the United States has even been around.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I don't buy the line of thinking that every act of mass murder committed by someone who was born "Christian" is a "Christian Terrorism." If the religious beliefs are motivations for the attack, then it's religious terrorism. If the religion had nothing to do with it and the person just happened to be one of the however-many-billion people in a particular religious bucket, I'm not associating it with that religion. That makes no sense.

I agree. What I was pointing out is that there is a clear preference for acts committed by those who are Muslim to use that to indict the entire religion. Which, as you point out, doesn't happen (at least anywhere to the same degree) when say a devout Christian attacks an abortion clinic/provider.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Lebanon had a massive civil war in the 70's. Kabul was in constant turmoil once they pulled away from help the West provided in building up their infrastructure.

Lebanon was arguably more France's fault than anyone else's (seriously did anyone do worse with their colonies than France?). As for Kabul - it didn't help that the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan and after the Soviets were kicked out, the US kind of bailed on doing any kind of nation building, explicitly contrary to the wishes of Congressman Charlie Wilson who basically predicted things would get fucked if we just up and pulled out (great movie, btw).

[molson]

The only ones fighting ISIS on the ground are other Muslims. And Muslims in those occupied areas have been by far, the biggest victims of ISIS. It's a weird perspective to vilify that entire group when they're the ones who have been killed and uprooted on a scale many, many times greater than what ISIS's impact on non-Muslims has been. If it's really easy so for Muslims to stop by ISIS just by "speaking out more" or not being complacent or whatever people say, someone should definitely tell the Muslims in the impacted areas exactly how to do that because I'm sure they'd love to know.

Though I think it's just as short-sighted to blame "the west."

[djsatu]

If anyone wants a good read on exactly what is happening today, look up Dr. Bill Warner. He has many short books on Islam, and what Sharia Law is for those of you who don't. Very very interesting, and scary stuff at the same time...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cartman

Which, as you point out, doesn't happen (at least anywhere to the same degree) when say a devout Christian attacks an abortion clinic/provider.

I partly blame the fact that we see a significantly higher frequency of attacks in the name of Islam than in the name of any other religion, and I partly blame plain ol' bigotry.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

The only ones fighting ISIS on the ground are other Muslims. And Muslims in those occupied areas have been by far, the biggest victims of ISIS. It's a weird perspective to vilify that entire group when they're the ones who have been killed and uprooted on a scale many, many times greater than what ISIS's impact on non-Muslims has been. If it's really easy so for Muslims to stop by ISIS just by "speaking out more" or not being complacent or whatever people say, someone should definitely tell the Muslims in the impacted areas exactly how to do that because I'm sure they'd love to know.

I find myself agreeing with you much more than I used to and this is pretty much 100% spot on.

Though I think it's just as short-sighted to blame "the west."

If you mean "only blame the west", I agree. I do think it's shortsighted to not look at how the west has made some fundamental errors in dealing with the problem that certainly hasn't made it any better.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Tough when people in civilized countries compete to show who is the most enlightened by defending a backwards ass culture all because the people have a darker tone of skin.

Good to know I only support the Malalas of the world because of their skin color and not for the very obvious ideals of human decency.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Good to know I only support the Malalas of the world because of their skin color and not for the very obvious ideals of human decency.

People on the left care more about a bakery refusing to bake a cake for a gay couple than they do an entire region of the world treating homosexuals as dogs. Treating women as property. Butchering innocent lives in the name of a God.

A group of backwards ass losers living in the stone age butcher a group of innocent people and the overwhelming response is to rush out to whiteknight that backwards ass culture.

Stop patting that culture on their head like a dog who wet the floor and start treating them like actual adults.

[Dutch]

I appreciate, ya.

[Groundhog]

Internet discussions on religion and terrorism (and politics) are about as useful as bashing your head against a wall for all the good actual discussion they bring about, versus just slamming the opposite opinions to yours, but hey...

Right now we see lots of bad stuff being done in the name of Islam. Swings like a pendulum in the long game, though, as anyone who reads their history should know.

Blaming it on one particular religion or race is pointless. Unless you are particularly racist, we can agree that all Muslims are humans, humans aren't particularly different from each other genetically - differences are cultural, and a large part of what makes our culture is what goes on around us. The middle east is a mess, has been for awhile, and there's lots of blame to share around for that, some internal and some external.

We know all religions are capable of being used as tools to get people to do (or justify them doing - which is more the case with ISIS IMO) horrible things - it's not even specific to religion, any type of banner or flag can be used to pit one group against another, from religions to nations to freaking football teams. Look at the Serbs/Croats who's biggest difference is not as much even cultural as it is which slightly different flavor of Catholicism they are, or even the schisms between different Islamic groups. It's human nature, and how good we are at it is probably one of the things that got us to where they are right now on the food chain.