2016 College Football Offseason (Non-recruiting thread)

[CU Tiger]

Lost of smoke in Knoxville.

This really doesn't look good for Butch Jones. Honestly this is the type of story that with just a little national attention could snowball him out of town.

Lawsuit: Tennessee coach Butch Jones called player a 'traitor'

There are bad seeds in every program. I've long been a Butch Jones fan, but this story disgusts me a bit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I said a couple of weeks back that this could end up landing on Jones hard.

The tricky part, however, is whether there end up being any credible accusations or witnesses for any of the allegations.

[TroyF]

I need some help here.

He found the lady crying and called to get help for her. Exactly how was he betraying his team by doing that?

I always, always, always try to avoid judging things like this until I hear all sides. What's hard about it on this one is that it seems much of the story was confirmed by other people or police. If Jones truly called the guy a traitor, there can be only one solution to this.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I need some help here.

He found the lady crying and called to get help for her. Exactly how was he betraying his team by doing that?

Not sure how what isn't clear in that scenario. Football = family, and in relatively few cultures does getting family in trouble go over very well.

Right, wrong, good, bad, whatever, I believe that's a pretty realistic answer to your apparent confusion.

[TroyF]

I get football is family.

Exactly how did he get anyone in trouble.

He saw a women crying. I'm guessing she said she was raped. He calls for medical help.

Is the coach and players really saying he shouldn't help anyone because it might involve another football player? Or that after he goes over to help and she says a football player raped her, there is some expectation that he can't even pick up the phone and get the girl medical help?

What was he supposed to do there? Spit on her? Rape her himself?

Being a close knit family is one thing. . . Not helping a distressed human being is another. I don't see how those things are mutually exclusive.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I get football is family.

Exactly how did he get anyone in trouble.

He saw a women crying. I'm guessing she said she was raped. He calls for medical help.

Is the coach and players really saying he shouldn't help anyone because it might involve another football player? Or that after he goes over to help and she says a football player raped her, there is some expectation that he can't even pick up the phone and get the girl medical help?

What was he supposed to do there? Spit on her? Rape her himself?

Being a close knit family is one thing. . . Not helping a distressed human being is another. I don't see how those things are mutually exclusive.

Oh wait, I get your confusion now (srsly, I'm not giving you shit).

I only read the details on how he got involved in the first place a little while ago myself. From Bowles affadavit:

190. Varsity football player Drae Bowles had picked up Plaintiff Doe IV (and her friends) in his vehicle the night of her assault (early morning hours of Nov. 16th) when he noticed Jane Doe IV was distraught in the parking lot. 191. Jane Doe IV was hyperventilating and crying near bushes in the parking lot. 192. Doe IV told Bowles in the car about the rape and, after discussion, she called 911 from his car to report the rape to the authorities. Bowles drove Jane Doe IV and her friends from the Woodlands apartment/condominium complex to Volunteer Hall where she was taken by ambulance to UT Medical Center where a rape/sexual exam was conducted

The belief is that he knew who was allegedly involved before taking the alleged victim & her friends from (what I gather is) their off-campus condo to a campus residence hall.

Now in family terminology, you're going out of your way to help someone who is accusing your brother of some serious shit that you have no idea whether is true or not. Again, I'm not sure how many places that flies without conflict.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And while it shouldn't have to be said, I'll say it anyway:

I ain't defending nobody for doing nothing. I'm strictly addressing Troy's question about why there were accusations of betrayal directed at Bowles.

[CU Tiger]

I don't know, man. You know I'll defend the honor of the warrior code faster than anyone. But a culture where women are that disrespected and not defended by "men" ...well that whole thing needs to be shut down.

To add to troy's reply, I've heard rumblings that the victim couldn't identify the attacker, possibly because they wore masks. And that Bowles might have identified them to police based on vehicles. Its also circulating that the victim was involved with one of her attackers, (and it was more a date rape than a violent rape) and some players alledge that Bowles was interested in the victim and encouraged her not to stand for being tested like that - auspiciouysly to improve his standing in her eyes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I don't know, man. You know I'll defend the honor of the warrior code faster than anyone. But a culture where women are that disrespected and not defended by "men" ...well that whole thing needs to be shut down.

But Troy's question didn't seem to be (as I read it) about the right/wrong of the attitude but rather puzzlement about what the beef with Bowles would have been. Take football out of it entirely, I'd guarantee there'd be some major personal shitstorms about his role if this were simply some dude getting involved to this extent in his postal worker/stockbroker/housepainter brother's situation.

As for questions about Bowle's own motivations there's also Maggit's alleged remark to him at the time of the first alleged confrontation, about how (paraphrasing cause I don't feel like looking it up again) "this is about you getting A.J."

edit to add: "A.J." presumably being A.J. Johnson, one of the accused (in case someone in the thread isn't familiar with the names of the initial rape case)

[Butter]

Jon, I think we all get that. I think what they're both trying to say is that a culture where the first reaction to a woman getting raped is "let's all protect the attacker because he's one of us" instead of "let's help the victim" is bullshit and needs some kind of correction.

And that culture sounds like it was protected by Butch Davis, who I would be surprised if he survives this. It's not like he's coming off 2 national titles or something.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Jon, I think we all get that. I think what they're both trying to say is that a culture where the first reaction to a woman getting raped is "let's all protect the attacker because he's one of us" instead of "let's help the victim" is bullshit and needs some kind of correction.

And that culture sounds like it was protected by Butch Davis, who I would be surprised if he survives this. It's not like he's coming off 2 national titles or something.

This.
I think it meets the definition of lack of institutional control, tbh.

[Butter]

Yeah, I obviously meant Butch Jones also, btw. Although maybe Butch Davis had something to do with this too.

[TroyF]

In Jon's defense here, that was really where I was confused. From the article in question, it looked to me like he helped someone in need and called for help. What Jon said cleared it up. He not only called for help, he was actively a part of the turn in.

Now, as Jon said above, the issues are two fold.

1) The kid did the right thing. Period. Nothing I said above changes just because of this information to me. The coach should be gone, the players who were involved in the "protection" of their other teammates should be gone. Period. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned. Assuming all the facts are accurate, that kid is a hero.

2) Why is he a hero for doing the right thing? Because of jon clearing it up, it's obvious. We know in the culture of a locker room, a police station, the military, or even family issues. . . people get VERY protective of their turf. I know it is wrong and I hope this idiotic part of our culture changes and changes quickly, but I now get how players from the team were pissed off about it. It's like walking into a vegan restaurant with a fur coat and having your car get keyed. It's wrong, but I can at least understand why it happened.

[tarcone]

Iowa DE Drew Ott getting the run around by the B1G/NCAA. They still havent made a decision on his appeal for a 6th year due to injury. The combine is about to start. And Ott is left in limbo.

What a bunch of stupidity.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

In Jon's defense here, that was really where I was confused. From the article in question, it looked to me like he helped someone in need and called for help. What Jon said cleared it up. He not only called for help, he was actively a part of the turn in.

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification/verification. For a change, I actually DID understand a question correctly around here.

[cartman]

A&M will head into this season without a scholarship TE on the roster.

Aggies' lone scholarship tight end says he's transferring - Houston Chronicle

[MrBug708]

Mazzone doesnt use a TE

[Kodos]

Illinois to hire Lovie Smith as head football coach | University of Illinois | pantagraph.com

Lovie Smith hired to coach the Illini.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Lovie Smith hired to coach the Illini.

Bwahahaha.

There's a move destined to start the hiring timer on a new "new AD".

[Dutch]

Lovie? A college coach? No way.

And I'm not trying to dis my guy....buy his personality doesn't seem to mix with what I figure a college coach's personality entails. He should be moving up into suit and tie type jobs at this point...

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Bwahahaha.

There's a move destined to start the hiring timer on a new "new AD".

That's the thing, though. This AD is clearly hanging his hat on this hire, as he made the move to fire the guy with another year on his contract on Day 1.

Should be interesting.

[Atocep]

This is going to be a disaster. He'll land a big player every now and then, but overall I just don't see him being able to recruit well. I also don't see his defense being able to stop spread offenses or him being able to make a good OC hire.

At least he's in the Big 10 west.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Atocep

This is going to be a disaster. He'll land a big player every now and then, but overall I just don't see him being able to recruit well. I also don't see his defense being able to stop spread offenses or him being able to make a good OC hire.

At least he's in the Big 10 west.

If it was coming right on the heels of Beckman's dismissal it would make a ton of sense. I think Illinois understands it's place and would be very content with a .500 coach who doesn't embarass the university or open it up to lawsuits. But Cubit also seemed like a competent program manager to give it a little stability, and it really looks bad on a university or presidential level to promote him to full-time coach November 28, then let the new AD fire him before he coaches a game.

[CU Tiger]

Lovie had a reputation as a great recruiter Innis college days according to an older colleague. Whether he can still hang is tbd, but his NFL pedigree will open doors.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Lovie had a reputation as a great recruiter Innis college days according to an older colleague. Whether he can still hang is tbd, but his NFL pedigree will open doors.

Plus he's also a pretty well-respected ex-coach of the Chicago Bears recruiting in the midwest. I don't get the immediate backlash - this isn't Ohio State or Michigan hiring Lovie, it's Illinois. Ron Zook is the best coach they've had in the last 25 years!

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Plus he's also a pretty well-respected ex-coach of the Chicago Bears recruiting in the midwest. I don't get the immediate backlash - this isn't Ohio State or Michigan hiring Lovie, it's Illinois. Ron Zook is the best coach they've had in the last 25 years!

If he's not burned-out and hires some assistants with recruiting connections, I don't see any reason he can't be a really good hire for Illinois. Totally agree about his NFL pedigree - that will give him some legitimacy when recruiting and telling kids he knows how to get them to the League.

[CU Tiger]

And Louisville OC/QB Coach Garrick McGee is now joining Lovie.

That is a pretty nice get, imho.

Garrick can run an offense by himself and we KNOW Lovie can coach D.

[CU Tiger]

Top MSU signee Simmons arrested for simple assault

Miss St 5* Signee arrested.

Very disturbing video to me. I am a long time advocate for giving many young athletes a break, but assaulting a female...that's an area I have zero sympathy for. When that female is already prone on the ground and you jump in on her. Sorry if his entire football career is over I think its justified.

If this was at Ole Miss I guess he is named a captain, but it will be interesting to see how Miss St responds.

Even more so in light of the current culture surrounding domestic violence.

[MrBug708]

Hatari Byrd is dismissed from Oklahoma. Wonder what he did since beating a woman isn't quite enough to get kicked off the team?

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Hatari Byrd is dismissed from Oklahoma. Wonder what he did since beating a woman isn't quite enough to get kicked off the team?

That player was dismissed from the team as well. He was only allowed to return a season later after completing a number of goals, including community service and counseling. Also, I think the term "beating" is a bit inappropriate since she initiated the altercation and he responded with one single punch.

Don't get me wrong; I don't condone what he did in any way. But let's not mischaracterize the situation.

As for Byrd, I haven't heard any rumors on what may or may not have happened. He was asked to make a position change after being passed over on the depth chart, and word is he wasn't pleased about it.

[vex]

Byrd left in good standing is all I know.

[Logan]

After the banning of satellite camps, I expect the next rule change to be prohibiting coaches from giving commencement speeches at the high schools of current/future recruits.

Scoops on Football: Jim Harbaugh to Speak at Paramus Catholic’s Graduation | Varsity Aces | NorthJersey.com

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Logan

After the banning of satellite camps, I expect the next rule change to be prohibiting coaches from giving commencement speeches at the high schools of current/future recruits.

Scoops on Football: Jim Harbaugh to Speak at Paramus Catholic’s Graduation | Varsity Aces | NorthJersey.com

I'll give Harbaugh a lot of credit for his creativity. And yes, I would expect the NCAA to end up banning this.

[tarcone]

Iowa DE Drew Otts petition for a 6th year denied. He played about 25% of his freshman year and 25% of his senior year.
He applied months ago and the NCAA drug it out.

Players in similar situations have been granted a 6th year. But for some reason, Ott is denied.

F*ck the NCAA.

[cartman]

The Notre Dame-Texas game on opening weekend will be moved to Sunday. So far it is the only game scheduled that day.

Texas Longhorns, Notre Dame Fighting Irish will move season opener to Sunday

[digamma]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I'll give Harbaugh a lot of credit for his creativity. And yes, I would expect the NCAA to end up banning this.

I don't think this is a big deal. College coaches have always been allowed to speak at banquets or club meetings provided it isn't a dead period and the coach doesn't "recruit" while there. Obviously, the second prong is hard to enforce, but I definitely remember hearing Ray Goff speak at a high school event back in the day. (Dates me, I know.)

[Logan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Iowa DE Drew Otts petition for a 6th year denied. He played about 25% of his freshman year and 25% of his senior year.
He applied months ago and the NCAA drug it out.

Players in similar situations have been granted a 6th year. But for some reason, Ott is denied.

F*ck the NCAA.

I don't know the particulars, but I'm almost positive the line is "less than 25%" in order to qualify. So if your wording is accurate, that would make the first instance okay (if "about" is actually less) but the second one not if he actually hit the 25% barrier.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by digamma

I don't think this is a big deal. College coaches have always been allowed to speak at banquets or club meetings provided it isn't a dead period and the coach doesn't "recruit" while there. Obviously, the second prong is hard to enforce, but I definitely remember hearing Ray Goff speak at a high school event back in the day. (Dates me, I know.)

Mark Richt was a semi-regular at the monthly (in fall) Athens Touchdown Club meetings here. While you could say "but that's different" these are typically open to the general public for a nominal fee to cover breakfast (members eat free).

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Iowa DE Drew Otts petition for a 6th year denied. He played about 25% of his freshman year and 25% of his senior year.
He applied months ago and the NCAA drug it out.

Players in similar situations have been granted a 6th year. But for some reason, Ott is denied.

F*ck the NCAA.

Based on this, your math is bad


University of Iowa Official Athletic Site

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

I don't know the particulars, but I'm almost positive the line is "less than 25%" in order to qualify. So if your wording is accurate, that would make the first instance okay (if "about" is actually less) but the second one not if he actually hit the 25% barrier.

Iowa AD: There's precedent for NCAA granting medical cases like Drew Ott's | The Gazette

Ott exceeded official NCAA requirements for a waiver by playing in more than 30 percent of Iowa’s 13 regular-season games (counting the Big Ten championship).

The article notes that he played in 6 of their 13 last season, though he missed significant snaps in 3 of those.

edit to add: The headline is somewhat misleading IMO. The "precedent" they cite is a guy at Temple who played in 32% (10 of 31) of their basketball games back in 2014, essentially one game over.

This was a guy who played in 50% of regular season games.

[tarcone]

Its 30% and he did not meet that criteria. He did meet the miss more then half the season criteria.
But he applied last Fall. The length to make the decision is what pisses me off. And it did Ott as well. He is missing out on NFL opportunities.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

But he applied last Fall. The length to make the decision is what pisses me off.

Might want to tell both the media AND Ott then 'cause ...

According to the Big Ten, schools officially petition for medical hardships once a team’s season is completed.

and

How the NCAA is messing with Iowa lineman Drew Ott's life at the NFL Combine | cleveland.com

The Big 10, not the NCAA, held onto his request until early March. The delay between the end of the season (whenever the paperwork was filed, which wasn't until late December or early January apparently, since Ott himself says "a couple of months") and then wasn't an NCAA matter.

[tarcone]

True. Then the NCAA waited about 6 weeks. So, true the B1G was complicit in this, but I still hate the NCAA.

[tarcone]

I just saw your earlier post, Jon. Ott missed a significant portion of the 1st 3 games due to a shoulder injury.

Im not sure if its based on games played or snaps played. Iowa and Ott tried to play the snaps played angle.

[MrBug708]

I believe it could only happen in the first part of the season. If you are out beause of injury for 3 games, come back for 3 and then get hurt again, you cannot apply for a medical RS. They usually only happen if you get hurt and don't play again. It's a lame rule

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I just saw your earlier post, Jon. Ott missed a significant portion of the 1st 3 games due to a shoulder injury.

Im not sure if its based on games played or snaps played. Iowa and Ott tried to play the snaps played angle.

The rule looks only at games played.
Period.

If you play 1 snap in a game it counts.

The NCAA is horribly inconsistent with the rulings and has been for some time. But the medical hardship exemption is one of the cleaner ones.

[Logan]

So...Lynn Swann is the new USC AD?

[MrBug708]

Good hire. Love the in house moves

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I just saw your earlier post, Jon. Ott missed a significant portion of the 1st 3 games due to a shoulder injury.

Right, I saw/read/knew that ... except that it's entirely irrelevant to the rule.

This just seemed like a no-chance appeal from the get go to me. And the NCAA kind of indicated that with their granting permission for him to attend the combine.

But it's a lose-lose situation for the NCAA most likely. If they had denied the appeal swiftly, they'd have gotten hammered for not taking enough time to investigate the details. If they take the usual process* then they get hammered for it not being entirely friendly to the student-athlete.

*Seems worth noting here that a football player at Indiana, Dominique Booth, appears to have gotten his appeal ruling on April 12, roughly the same day as Ott. That case is even more unusual in that IU doctors won't clear him to play but other doctors/schools will so he's going to end up being a graduate transfer next season

[CU Tiger]

This dude must be made of teflon.

Report: Police calls to Tennessee's Jones could be against law | Dr. Saturday - Yahoo Sports