Any Dominions players out there?

[Umbrella]

I just got Dominions 4:Thrones of Ascension. It's pretty cool, but I am a bit overwhelmed right now. The learning curve is pretty steep. Anybody out there that has played it with some tips for beginners?

[nilodor]

I totally read the title as are there any dominoes players out there and was like Hell Yes! I love beer and dominoes. Came charging into the thread and...

[cartman]

Originally Posted by nilodor

I totally read the title as are there any dominoes players out there and was like Hell Yes! I love beer and dominoes. Came charging into the thread and...

42!!!!

[Blackadar]

I've played most every 4X game, but Dominions has always intimidated me to the point that I've never purchased it. I got used to Distant Worlds, so I'm no stranger to complex 4X games. But from what I understand, Dominions is a pretty so-so single player game (which is grossly imbalanced) that only shines in multiplayer. I'm not interested in MP.

Umbrella, I'm eager to hear your thoughts as a new player and how does the SP game hold up?

[Grover]

Aw man, at first I thought this was about Dominion, the card game.

[Umbrella]

My thoughts as a new player: Pain.

Like I said, it is kind of overwhelming right now. I've played some Paradox games, so I know I will start figuring things out at some point, but right now, whoa.

There are about 75 nations, all of which are unique. Each nation has maybe 20-30 recruitable units. I've read there are over 8000 spells. It's just data overload right now. However, the concept is so cool, that I really want to figure it out.

As far as the AI goes, I'm not very good yet, so I'm probably not the best person to answer it.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by cartman

42!!!!

I prefer the mexican train variety but don't mind a little Texas 42 when the mood suits.

[Bobble]

I'm a playa ... ahem ... player. My suggestion is to just start with the early age and pick out a nation that is relatively familiar. Something with human archers, human chariots, something that you should have a good idea of what to expect.

For the spells, you're going to want a constant supply of magic gems of the flavor your magicians need. For each flavor (I think they're called aspects, actually), there's a 3rd or 4th level spell that will allow you to scrutinize a province to the maximum level for that flavor of gems. I usually push for that right off the bat (have all my magicains research until I get to that point, and then have them cast that spell on each new province as I gain provinces).

Be sure to set your unit's tactics before you send them out. I generally divide mine into two squads, one of archers with Fire and Flee(?) and one of close combat troops with Hold and Attack (which is hold for 2 turns and then advance to attack). If I don't know much about the opposition, both of those are directed at closest.

Very early in the game, I might gamble on attacking a province without having a good idea of what's there (because I can then quit and start over) but generally, I try to know enough about a target province so I'm likely to win. Losing your assault force early or even mid-game can be a real set-back. If you own the adjacent province, you can mentally keep track of the reports of how many enemy are there. If it says 20 militia and archers one turn, then 40, then 15, then 20. You can expect that it's closer to 20 than 40.

For each province you take, add at least a few points of defense (1 costs 1, 2 costs 1+2, 3 costs 1+2+3, etc.). It's a very cheap way of adding a few men in defense.

Take your time and make sure you have done everything you want before you hit End Turn. I've burnt myself many times by not doing this.

Those are a few random thoughts. If you have any specific questions, just ask.

[Warhammer]

I played 3 quite a bit, have not picked up for yet. I was waiting for some of my buddies to pick it up before I did so.

A couple of items to keep in mind:

1). Have a clear goal for your nation for each stage of the game.
2). Have a backup up plan in case you get rushed from an unexpected area.
3). Get multiple forts up as soon as possible.
4). It is typically better to maximize your strengths than it is to cover your weaknesses.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Grover

Aw man, at first I thought this was about Dominion, the card game.

.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

3). Get multiple forts up as soon as possible.

It just shows to go ya. I almost never build forts unless there's a chokepoint or I'm establishing another main recruiting province (lab, temple, fort). I subscribe to the George S. Patton theory of Dominions 4 -- "We are not holding a Goddamned thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls. We are going to twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like shit through a tin horn!"

[Warhammer]

The whole point of forts is to recruit additional commanders/mages, unless that mechanic changed. Also forts would allow you to tap some of the untapped resources in an area, allowing you to build bigger armies. It won't matter much against the AI, but against other people it helps.

Also, this is a game that is much better against other people than it is against the AI.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The whole point of forts is to recruit additional commanders/mages, unless that mechanic changed. Also forts would allow you to tap some of the untapped resources in an area, allowing you to build bigger armies. It won't matter much against the AI, but against other people it helps.

Also, this is a game that is much better against other people than it is against the AI.

Yeah, that's the same. Forts allow a host of recruits that you can't get without a fort. It's just that I never have enough money to build forts, build temples, and recruit everyone I want.

[Umbrella]

Thanks for the advice guys. I just started a new game as Abysia in the early age. Can't go wrong with fire, although they have no missile units. I'm still not real sure what to do with the gems. I am accumulating a ton of fire gems, but I don't know what to do with them. I am thinking about using them to increase my fire level with my mages, since I don't have the ability to construct anything worthwhile yet.

Speaking of which, what are your philosophies on research? Early on, I set my pretender to do research, and researched evocation to get the fire spells for my mages. However, I think I set my pretender up wrong, and specialized in earth and nature instead of fire. Part of me wants to go the construction route to try and get some water breathing. I've got a water entrance to a bunch of caves right by me, and with my dark vision, I think I could take that area over pretty easily, but I can't swim.

As for forts, I've been building them every 3 provinces of advancing or so, just so I can have recruits closer to the front line. Same with temples. I haven't built any labs yet, as I'm not real sure if they are worth the benefit. I think this points to my misunderstanding of the benefits of the gems.

It's a real fun game, but I feel like I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of everything you can do.

[Umbrella]

Originally Posted by Grover

Aw man, at first I thought this was about Dominion, the card game.

We can talk about that too. It's one of my favorite games.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Grover

Aw man, at first I thought this was about Dominion, the card game.

Yes... the really good card game.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Umbrella

Thanks for the advice guys. I just started a new game as Abysia in the early age. Can't go wrong with fire, although they have no missile units. I'm still not real sure what to do with the gems. I am accumulating a ton of fire gems, but I don't know what to do with them. I am thinking about using them to increase my fire level with my mages, since I don't have the ability to construct anything worthwhile yet.

Speaking of which, what are your philosophies on research? Early on, I set my pretender to do research, and researched evocation to get the fire spells for my mages. However, I think I set my pretender up wrong, and specialized in earth and nature instead of fire. Part of me wants to go the construction route to try and get some water breathing. I've got a water entrance to a bunch of caves right by me, and with my dark vision, I think I could take that area over pretty easily, but I can't swim.

As for forts, I've been building them every 3 provinces of advancing or so, just so I can have recruits closer to the front line. Same with temples. I haven't built any labs yet, as I'm not real sure if they are worth the benefit. I think this points to my misunderstanding of the benefits of the gems.

It's a real fun game, but I feel like I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of everything you can do.

What's a ton? 100? You spend gems to cast most spells. Personally, I can't get too many gems. I'll first use them to cast Augury (for the fire discipline) on any of my provinces to uncover any sources of fire gems. After that, I use them to conjure additional units. Later in the game, I might use them to create magic items for my commanders. Only rarely will I give a particular mage his own gems to use in battle (mainly for big battles like to take out another pretender god).

Research: Early in the game, I make sure that I recruit a mage each turn (or at least half of one if they take 2 turns) and set them all to research until I get, in this case, Augury. Those that don't cast Augury will research some good summoning spells and eventually, research the lower levels of most magic disciplines so I can use those zero-gem-cost spells in combat.

Is there an item that will give your troops (rather than just your commander) water breathing? If you take some provinces along the coast, you should sooner or later find some recruitable amphibious units and commanders that you can use at sea so you might not need to go to the trouble of crafting an item.

I will build labs for two reasons. First, when I start capturing provinces that are out of range for my mages to cast Augury. Second, to unlock recruitment of unique mages in a province.

You're probably aware but the manual is here: http://www.illwinter.com/dom4/manual_dom4.pdf It's probably easier to scan through spells and magic items in the manual than in-game.

[Warhammer]

Gems are good for empowering spells during battle as well as making items. Make sure you build labs with castles as they give you access to mages. Abyssia is a fun nation to play, earth and nature are good to give your blessed units a boost in battle. Make sure you have a high dominion to spread your dominion around, you like nice hot places, it is to your advantage to have your dominion spread so you are fighting in it.

Make a beeline down the evocation path and get falling fires, flare, etc. then rain down death on your enemies.

[Umbrella]

Originally Posted by Bobble

Is there an item that will give your troops (rather than just your commander) water breathing? If you take some provinces along the coast, you should sooner or later find some recruitable amphibious units and commanders that you can use at sea so you might not need to go to the trouble of crafting an item.

Hmm, I think this is something I misunderstood. I was under the impression that if the commander had water breathing, it transferred to his troops. Sounds like this isn't the case.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Umbrella

Hmm, I think this is something I misunderstood. I was under the impression that if the commander had water breathing, it transferred to his troops. Sounds like this isn't the case.

There is an item you can make that gives your troops water breathing. I think it is a barrel of air or some such.

[Warhammer]

There are several items and the number of troops it works for depends upon unit size. For example, you can take more homburgs with you than giants.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

There are several items and the number of troops it works for depends upon unit size. For example, you can take more homburgs with you than giants.

You being able to clarify things like that help explain why I get my ass kicked when playing MP with you guys.

I like the game. But the end game drags for me enough that I become bored and quit in SP, so in MP I have no idea how to kill anyone else.

[Umbrella]

I'm finally starting to figure things out. I found a website, Dom4 Mod Inspector, which has helped me a lot. A lot of ALT-Tab, but it is helping me learn the game.

I've almost finished a new game as the Oceana. I tried playing a 12 pretender game with 4 teams. One of my disciples absolutely crushed everyone around him, while the other was only able to take about 3 provinces. I dominated the water, as expected. Thanks to my super disciple, I was one throne away from victory. I captured the province with the throne, and needed to get my pretender over there to claim it. Then he died.

Turns out, I had him fighting the lizards on the other side of the map, and he got cursed and had a bunch of afflictions. I don't have any way of healing yet, and I can't teleport, so it looks like my assumed victory is still a ways off. I went light on my research, and now I will pay.

So since I don't think I can get him all the way across the map without dying, it seems like here are my options.

1) Research Enchantment to level 6 to get Gift of Healing. My pretender has nature magic, so he could cast it on himself.
2) I have Thaumaturgy at level 3, so Teleport is unlocked. I could use Empowerment to raise my pretender's astral rating to 3. The problem here is I'm not generating a lot of pearls, so I don't know if I can pull this off.
3) Craft items to get one of my priests up to level 3. Unfortunately, it looks like all of these items require Construction of level 8, which will take forever.

Does anyone have any other ideas, or am I missing something obvious?

[Umbrella]

I still bust this out occasionally, and just got my head handed to me by the AI. It was a level 3 throne that I thought I had a strong enough army to take. The AI was lead by Zeus himself! I knew I was in for a tough fight, and then it happened. He cast a spell that mistformed his entire army. The fight was over before it even started.

I spent some time trying to figure out what the heck happened, and apparently there is a spell called fog warriors, which casts mistform on an entire army. First, that is an amazing spell, and one I've never seen.

Second, I'm not sure how to counter it, especially against a 300 man army. I suppose if I had a ton of commanders with magic weapons, that might help, but probably not against an army that size. Maybe a large AOE spell that immobilizes the enemy, like Earth Meld. Anyways, that was a brutal spell, and one I need to look into more.

[Warhammer]

Wrathful Skies would work. There is another you can use with fire as well. Maybe smelly spam would work as well. I'd love to get some Dom 4 games going.

[Warhammer]

OK, no where else to put this, and I need to get it off my chest.

Game of Dominions 5 with my two kids and two nephews prepping for a larger game with some of my Memphis friends.

My oldest son is eliminated. He was playing Mekone. Spartan giants with a chip on their shoulder regarding divine beings (they get a bonus against pretenders and opposing sacred troops).

Younger son is playing Lanka, think Indian demons with some Jungle Book influences.

Oldest nephew is playing Therdoros. Best way to describe them, Atlantis gets hit by a cataclysm and goes under the waves. Most of the Atlanteans die, but do not know it. These spirits can be summoned into undead ghost armies. Those that survived are scarred by the cataclysm and are led by dancing female priests. Anyway, the take away is undead ghost phalanxes from the sea.

My younger nephew is playing Niefelheim. These are the giants of Norse legend.

I am playing Caelum. These are beings with wings. They are terrible at fighting, but are masters of air magic (thunder and lightning).

In Dominions 5, you are trying to take over the Thrones of Ascension (just like Dominions 4). These are provinces controlled by unaligned forces that can be very strong, but you get substantial bonuses for controlling them.

I control the NE section of the map. Think Europe without Scandinavia and no Italy. There is an ocean that stretches from 1 o'clock around the western edge of the landmass to roughly 6 o'clock. I control the NE, E, and most of the central part of the map. Lanka controls a few provinces in the SE corner. Niefelheim controls the SW and W part of the continent. Therdoros controls the oceans and a small island in the NW and a few provinces where Mekone used to be 10:30 on the continent.

The game is going along fine. Lanka starts between two relatively strong thrones and focuses on trying to take them down, so they do not get a ton of land. Niefelheim and Mekone have a throw down of giants which forces Mekone to retreat back. Therdoros focuses on control of the oceans and eventually finished off Mekone. Niefelheim rushes to take territories in their area before Therdoros can invade from the ocean. I quickly expand using flying armies, bypassing strong provinces that I can take later.

Therdoros, being mainly spectral troops, are very difficult to hit with normal weapons (only 25% chance to hit with normal weapons). They mop the floor with Niefelheim every time they meet. Niefelheim can beat me in a straight up mano a mano fight, but if I bring my mage artillery, I should win. I can mop up Therdoros with no problem because my army, while it is weak, has magic ice weapons which can hit their spectral units. With this rock, paper, scissors going on, no one is focusing on Lanka.

Therdoros takes all the ocean thrones which total 4 points. Niefelheim has a land throne worth two. I have two in my backyard that I have not claimed, another that is between all 4 players. I believe the two in my backyard are two each, and the one in the middle it worth 3 (game settings is you need 7 to win). There are a couple of land thrones in Niefelheim's area, one between he and Lanka, and another at the end of a peninsula he is racing with Therdoros for.

Seeing the opportunity, I grab the middle throne. It is only worth 2 points. That same turn, a message arrives, Lanka has claimed the 3 point throne!. That means the two thrones in my backyard are only 1 point each. My game plan is now thrown out. I have to march through Lanka and take that throne.

My main forces are in the south, and Therdoros decides to invade in the north. I have to dispatch a force to deal with him, which I do easily, I annihilate his force, while losing only 15% of my force (equal sized forces). I send this force to take the thrones behind my lines.

In the south, Niefelheim decides to go after the 2 pt throne. I bring in my mage artillery. This throne is near a chokepoint on the map, there is a one province gap in a mountain range. Rather than contesting this, I fall back to the throne (which I have fortified). The plan is to research a new level of construction magic, craft a few components and then annihilate his army at the fortress. The problem, he beats my plans by a turn. I am not completely fortified, and to make matters worse, his army of giants immediately breach the walls of the fortification.

Not one to panic, I size up my forces. He has roughly 180 giants. He has a sacred force of 60 Niefel Giants, the big boys. He has some Jotun Hurlers and rock throwers. Jotuns are descended from both humans and giants so they are not as big as the other giants, but these make up about 110 of his units. They are still better than my guys. The force is lead by by two Niefel Jarls.

I have roughly 600 units to contest this. However, my mage artillery dwarfs his. I have 10 mighty Eagle Kings, experts in air magic, but they also have some skill with water and earth as well. Some are also accompanied by their Fravashi (essentially their soul, which fights as a separate unit with them). I have 7 priests which dabble in fire magic. There are 6 Airya Seraphs which are my run of the mill air and water mage. I have 3 Harab Seraphs which are air and death mages. Finally, there are 3 independent mages that have a bit of nature that I only recruited for their ability to find nature gems, which my nation cannot find without difficulty. Opposing this mage force, my nephew has 6 mages. His 2 Niefel Jarls which he is using as Super Combatants (guys that can more or less take provinced by themselves). The other 4 are Gygjas which are large crones that have some death and blood magic.

Nearly forgot, my regular army consists of a mix of Tempest Warriors, guys that can fly to the rear of his formation during the storm and engage his mages in hand to hand. I have Iceclads which cannot fly during the storm, but they have very good armor in cold climates (This world is in an ice age as my land, Niefelheim, and Therdoros all have very cold climates that expand with our dominion. The only balmy area in this world is where Lanka controls). These guys are my backup line holders. The problem is, unlike most of my other troops, these guys have no resistance to lightning. I have 180 corpse constructs. Think Frankenstein's monster, only they have poor attack and defense values. The advantage these guys have for me is they do not mind lightning, they have a ton of health, so they will not go down in one hit, and when hit, they can stun the offending unit. These guys will slow down the assault while my mages hammer them with lightning.

My initial plan was to summon a storm, and them use the storm to empower my air mages and summon a number of air elementals and call down lightning on his giants. One of my mages will cast Wrathful Skies, normally this calls down lightning on 5% of all squares on the battlefield each turn, but in a storm this is doubled to 10%. I have empowered one of my Eagle Kings with earth magic to cast Curse of Stones. If the giants do not make a saving throw, each step becomes very difficult and they will accumulate fatigue rapidly. Slowing them down, and hopefully impacting their ability to fight. My death mages are going to summon hordes of skeletons and reanimate my soldiers that die on the battlefield. One will be empowered to cast a howling wind that will decrease the morale of the giants throughout the battle and force them to make repeated morale checks. My priests will do a combination of summoning fire elementals with fire gems and those without fire gems will cast holy spells that will stun and/or paralyze the sacred giants.

What to do with the nature mages? I was going to retreat them, but since the fortification was under siege that would not work. Looking at what I had going, and my big fear was the giants penetrating my front line, I gave them a bunch of nature gems and had them cast swarm repeatedly. Swarm is a spell that summons frogs, scorpions, big mosquitos, basically small chaff, but in large numbers. Since the giants can only hit one target per attack, this should slow them down. I put all these guys on my lower flank to defend any potential outflanking force.

My flying normal units I decide to send in waves. However, my cousin, knowing my tricks, has stationed several giants to guard his mages. Instead, I target his archers. With the storm their missiles with be errant and possibly take out some of his own guys. Not only that, but this will draw his front line giants back to his archer line rather than towards my line, buying me time.

Its a plan that might fail, he does have better troops than I do. Sure I outnumber him 3:1, but his troops are substantially better than mine. Plus, even with the lightning, it still takes several strikes to kill a giant. Also, just in case I win, I send a small force to the gap between the mountains to cut any rout paths, which will result in me annihilating the army if I win.

The turn runs. I open it up. I take the province in the gap between the mountains. Awesome! I check the big battle. Crap. Lost it. I lost a ton of troops. But, I only lost a few mages. 10 of 11 Eagle Kings survived the battle. I can recover from this. Why did I not lose the nature mages or my priests? They are vulnerable to lightning. Well, let's see what happened.

First off, the battle is so big, I cannot keep up with the battle log. I get my storm off. Good. I cast Curse of Stones. Good. But, most of the giants make their saves. That is not good. Note to self, don't cast this against him again. Lightning strikes all over. Good, getting some damage in. My aerial troops force his front line units back to guard the archers. Good. How did I lose this? Wailing Winds gets cast. His troops are now having to make repeated morale checks.

Wait a minute, why did my Wrathful Skies not get cast? I check mages, crap, I had the same mage casting Curse of Stones cast Wrathful Skies as well. Also the mage did not use all his earth gems to decrease the fatigue cost of Curse of Stones. So he is too fatigued to cast Wrathful Skies. This is bad. Very bad.

Fire elementals are going off and doing a bit of work against the giants. Very good. The corpse constructs are holding off the giants. Again, very good. The air elementals are doing their job against the basic giants, but not the commanders. Still, the battle is going great. How do I lose this? What's this? The giant army is routing? HOW DO I LOSE THIS?

Remember those nature mages casting swarm at the bottom of the map? Those guys did a great job. There's frogs a leaping, scorpions a stinging, mosquitos a biting. They delayed the big, bad, fully buffed Niefel Jarl. What's this? My corpse constructs are coming down to help. The Niefel Jarl hits one, trying to clear a path to rout and is stunned. My priests, not having any other targets are now blasting him with stun and paralyzation spells. Not all pass his magic resistance but enough do. My death mages are spamming more reanimated dead. But the only thing that can get next to the Jarl are the insect swarm and the corpse constructs. None of these can do enough damage to overcome his damage resistance and regeneration. My fire elementals, earth elementals, and regular troops which can overcome his damage resistance cannot get close enough due to all the other chaff in the way. His Jarl can't leave the field because he is stunned... Oh no...

So the battle times out. Since I am the attacker (trying to break the siege), my force automatically routs. There is only one unrouted enemy on the field, his Super Combatant Jarl. After my mages leave (flyers do not have to actually exit the field, they just leave), my corpse constructs have no magic commander on the field and dissolve!

The Jarl, since he "won" the battle, is able to storm the fortification, which had nothing left in it. He keeps the province. Since the province is friendly, his other routed troops do not have to leave to another province. They get to stay.

I had the battle won. I was going to win the whole dang game in another three turns (taking that 3 pt throne). But because some fat ass Niefel Jarl couldn't get his ass off the battlefield, because my swarm worked too well, I couldn't get my good troops to finish off the Jarl, because my Wrathful Skies spell did not fire off, which would have eventually killed the swarm allowing my guys to kill the Jarl. ARGH!

The game is not over, but the path to victory is a lot tougher now...

[Bobble]

Cool. The interplay of tactics in Dominions is amazingly deep.

Dominions, Steel Panthers, Civ series, and OOTP are on my list for games that I can always go back to and play a few turns. Classics.