Car Accident / Insurance Question

[heybrad]

Looking for some advice based on the thread title. Here's the backstory.

Last week, my son and I were in a head on car crash. A 17 year old girl wasn't paying the attention she should be and came into our lane right in front of us and we hit pretty much at full speed head on. It was pretty violent and the airbags deployed. My son and I were both transported from the scene in an ambulance to the hospital. The concern with my son was he was having pretty bad stomach pains so they wanted to check for any internal bleeding. For me, I had a golf sized protrusion on my wrist which they though I might have broken. We both were feeling more and more general pain as the night went on as the adrenaline wore off. Thankfully x-rays were negative and my son checked out OK. We were left with a few days of pain killers and muscle relaxers as we tightened up pretty good for a few days.

The other driver was charged at the scene and its already been confirmed that their insurance is taking full responsibility for the bills. They've confirmed they paying all things medical related. My car has already been deemed totaled. I had a loan still out on the car and when the payment is done, I won't owe anything, but I wont' have any extra either. That leaves us with medical costs covered and no car loan. It also leaves me with no car.

Here's where I need some guidance or any info from similar experiences. I'll start by saying I'm truly thankful that my son is ok. It was a violent accident and we were lucky to come out of it with a few days of pain, bumps and bruises. The drivers insurance already offered us a settlement. Again, medical bills and ambulance will be covered. The part that doesn't feel right is that they made us an offer (and these were their words) "for our troubles." I asked to tell me what they meant by "our troubles." Was that pain and suffering? She said, "yea, pain and suffering and the hassles you're having to go through." She then offered $100 to my son and $200 to me. My intention is not to milk them for anything that is not fair. But not having a ton of experience of what is fair in this case, I'm curious of others who have had similar experiences.

What is typical over and above medical and taking car of the car? What is considered fair?

[cartman]

That is extremely low. Usually I hear of things like that being at least $10K per person.

[Izulde]

Yeah, this doesn't sound right at all in terms of the amount of compensation. Feels like they're trying to settle this quickly and cheaply.

[heybrad]

My sister in law was recently in an accident with no injuries. She was given $500. I knew it was low but not at all sure what I should be countering with.

[PilotMan]

I'd be calling a lawyer. You have to protect yourself in case of complications or long term issues for yourself or your son. They aren't going to go out of their way to mention this at all. A lawyer will at least be someone on your side who will represent you in the way that you deserve. Until you do, the insurance company won't take you seriously at all.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I'd be calling a lawyer. You have to protect yourself in case of complications or long term issues for yourself or your son. They aren't going to go out of their way to mention this at all. A lawyer will at least be someone on your side who will represent you in the way that you deserve. Until you do, the insurance company won't take you seriously at all.

This.

[PilotMan]

Those numbers are insanely low.

Think about it. You would've gotten more for being bumped off of a plane.

[Izulde]

From my own experience, when I was hit by a car as a kid, the driver's insurance tried shady games even worse than that, in that they were trying to say it was my fault even though the police report clearly indicated it was their client's fault.

We got a lawyer and the end story was, we reached a settlement of medical bills, court costs and legal fees, plus lost wages for my parents and sister for a couple days, and a pain and suffering $12,000 payment I think it was. And this was back in the early '90s.

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by Izulde

From my own experience, when I was hit by a car as a kid, the driver's insurance tried shady games even worse than that, in that they were trying to say it was my fault even though the police report clearly indicated it was their client's fault.

We got a lawyer and the end story was, we reached a settlement of medical bills, court costs and legal fees, plus lost wages for my parents and sister for a couple days, and a pain and suffering $12,000 payment I think it was. And this was back in the early '90s.

The highlighted part is exactly how my initial phone call with her insurance felt. They asked for my side of the story and throughout they kept asking questions that would imply that I was at least partially at fault. The one that pissed me off the most was "Why didn't you react when she moved into your lane?" The police actually had to come to the hospital to talk to us and they stressed to us to make sure we communicated that the other driver was charged at the scene and that all witness accounts were that they were at fault. Even with that I still was questioned as to whether I played some role in the accident. Most of my answers ended with, "That's why your driver was charged."

[sabotai]

Third PilotMan's suggestion on getting a lawyer.

[Lathum]

PM me the names of both insurance companies and I may be able to assist.

As many know I work for one of the biggest companies out there. That being said I am on the property damage side, not injuries, liability decisions, etc...thankfully, because that can be soul crushing.

First and foremost, thank God you are OK, I have looked at many cars involved in similar accidents with much worse outcomes, including death.

2 things I will mention based off comments here.

1. A lawyer won't hurt, but there is no guarantee it will help either, and the suggestion that an insurance company won't take you seriously without one is laughable. They have no fear of lawyers and in fact in many cases prefer to deal with them for reasons I can't mention.

2.The other persons insurance company in ALWAYS going to look out for their insured, it is what they are paid to do. States obviously have different laws, etc...but in many cases you do have a duty to attempt evasive action but it sounds like they could be more tactful.

also, my wifes cousin in an attorney in VA who handles a lot of auto claims. I could ask him assuming my company has no involvement.

[Lathum]

dola- I am in London right now and heading to bed, flying out tomorrow, so it may be a bit before you get a response.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

PM me the names of both insurance companies and I may be able to assist.

I read this sentence and have come to the conclusion that Lathum is some sort of hit man.

[rowech]

I was in an accident several years ago. Don't settle quickly as things might develop later -- especially back issues from whiplash and things like that. If you settle and something comes up you're screwed. I would wait at least a month and I would ask for 50 dollars per hour of time it took in terms of waiting, hospital stays, doctor appt, etc. The insurance company that was for the driver who caused our accident settled with those conditions very quickly when I asked for that several years ago and I had no lawyer.

[EagleFan]

The only advice I can give is make sure you have a lawyer handle the discussions for you. I was rear ended at a stop light several years back (almost 20 years ago now, wow time flies) and settled too quickly because 'things weren't too bad' but then had back issues afterwards which by settling early left me to deal with them on my own.

I wish you and your son the best and that neither of you have any residual issues after this.

[miked]

I have a friend who is a lawyer and he says this is insanely low. But he also says everyone thinks they are going to get a payday and when things actually go to trial, the insurance companies almost always win. That is most people overestimate their "pain and suffering" damages. That's not to say you have one, or are looking for one, but it pays to get legal opinions and be realistic.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by heybrad

Looking for some advice based on the thread title. Here's the backstory.

Last week, my son and I were in a head on car crash. A 17 year old girl wasn't paying the attention she should be and came into our lane right in front of us and we hit pretty much at full speed head on. It was pretty violent and the airbags deployed. My son and I were both transported from the scene in an ambulance to the hospital. The concern with my son was he was having pretty bad stomach pains so they wanted to check for any internal bleeding. For me, I had a golf sized protrusion on my wrist which they though I might have broken. We both were feeling more and more general pain as the night went on as the adrenaline wore off. Thankfully x-rays were negative and my son checked out OK. We were left with a few days of pain killers and muscle relaxers as we tightened up pretty good for a few days.

The other driver was charged at the scene and its already been confirmed that their insurance is taking full responsibility for the bills. They've confirmed they paying all things medical related. My car has already been deemed totaled. I had a loan still out on the car and when the payment is done, I won't owe anything, but I wont' have any extra either. That leaves us with medical costs covered and no car loan. It also leaves me with no car.

Here's where I need some guidance or any info from similar experiences. I'll start by saying I'm truly thankful that my son is ok. It was a violent accident and we were lucky to come out of it with a few days of pain, bumps and bruises. The drivers insurance already offered us a settlement. Again, medical bills and ambulance will be covered. The part that doesn't feel right is that they made us an offer (and these were their words) "for our troubles." I asked to tell me what they meant by "our troubles." Was that pain and suffering? She said, "yea, pain and suffering and the hassles you're having to go through." She then offered $100 to my son and $200 to me. My intention is not to milk them for anything that is not fair. But not having a ton of experience of what is fair in this case, I'm curious of others who have had similar experiences.

What is typical over and above medical and taking car of the car? What is considered fair?

$300?

LOL

IMO - and this is where I find insurance pretty much a shitty bargin (no offense to the auto insurance guys on the board), it's a fucking JOKE if you don't get at least the value that you had put into the old car already "for your troubles" so that you can go out and put yourself in a similar situation in a new car.

I mean - if you had put say...10k in payments into the car that was totaled, I'd say "MY TROUBLES ARE $10K IN SUNK CAR PAYMENTS" plus some amount for the inconveniences + pain+suffering.

Anything less than that I'd say "see you in court biatches." Especially if the 17 year old has already been charged by the cops.

[JPhillips]

One thing I'd recommend is looking around at local pricing for your vehicle/mileage. Several years ago I was in a similar situation and the other insurance company offered what they said was fair value, but I couldn't buy my car for that amount in the city where I lived.

I got so pissed during that episode that I was ready to hire a lawyer and get 1/2 as much as long as the insurance company had to spend twice as much. I felt like it was next to impossible to negotiate when my position was pay for car, missed work and medical bills and their position was as little as possible.

[mauchow]

A shitty lawyer will win ypu a good sum a decent lawyer will get you all you need.

Get a lawyer. Fast. Before the girl gets one and her lawyer says it was your fault.

These are the types of cases that get settled for hundreds of thousands of dollars if not million or two. If there is any sort of injury lawyer up.

[CraigSca]

My wife and daughter were in an accident last year. Someone attempted to make a left turn in front of them while the light was green. My daughter was unscathed, and my wife broke her thumb. The medical bills were handled by the other person's insurance company, and they offered us $22k. $100 and $200 is unconscionable.

[RainMaker]

I also think you should not be talking to her insurance company at all. They clearly want you to say something they can use against you if you take them to court. The less you say the better.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I also think you should not be talking to her insurance company at all. They clearly want you to say something they can use against you if you take them to court. The less you say the better.

Yeah - this is true. Get a lawyer. Have the lawyer be the one talking to her insurance company, not you from now on.

[claphamsa]

I was in a wreck a few years ago, my insurance company offered them 2X damages (medical, car, lost wages) they said no, and sued... 3 years later they got... 2X damages.

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

My wife and daughter were in an accident last year. Someone attempted to make a left turn in front of them while the light was green. My daughter was unscathed, and my wife broke her thumb. The medical bills were handled by the other person's insurance company, and they offered us $22k. $100 and $200 is unconscionable.

Are you saying they offered you $22K above your medical bills? Just to be clear they are offering to pay all medical costs including ambulance, hospital and doctor visits. I don't know exactly yet what that amount is. The $300 was combined for pain and suffering.

[tarcone]

Here is my experience. It is a little different, as it involved a semi truck.

My wife and her sister got hit by a semi that plowed through a stop sign coming off an off ramp of an interstate. Totaled out van. Injuries, nothing serious.

I concur with the others that said get a lawyer. And do not say another word tot he insurance company or any of their representatives. The guy we ralked to was very sleazy and an asshole. I kept my wife from saying too much to him. As our conversation was recorded. And he was looking to screw us.

The insurance company will use anything you say against you. And if you dont have a lawyer, that $100 and $200 will be what you owe the insurance company.

EDIT: My wife got about $50k if I remember correctly. Remember, this gets the insurance company out of any future claims. So ten years down the road, if your wrist has horrible arthritis and you cant use it, you cant go after the insurance company again for medical. So they are giving you extra money to cover future needs.

Again, GET A LAWYER.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by mauchow

These are the types of cases that get settled for hundreds of thousands of dollars if not million or two. If there is any sort of injury lawyer up.

Absolute horseshit. Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about and should not post again.

One of my sisters has been setting car insurance claims for two different insurance companies for 15 years. This is what she does. So I ran this by her.

A few things:

1. It depends on the state where the accident took place exactly what laws will apply and what settlement you'll get. In VA, the minimum coverage is:

- $25,000 for the injury or death of a single person
- $50,000 total for the injury or death of multiple people in a single accident
- $20,000 for property damage

That's it. The other driver may not have any more coverage than this, in which case that's all the insurance company is going to pay.

2. Their offer is laughable. She said that's probably a cut-rate insurance company due to the size of the offer. If it's a mainstream company and they offered that, she said to be very firm (though do NOT threaten to get a lawyer - see below) and say that is not a good faith offer. My sister mentioned that with such a low offer, the adjuster may think you went to the hospital in an ambulance on purpose to try to get a bigger settlement. They like to fuck around with people like that because they despise them. Note that your insurance claim processor is judged on not only how much they pay out, but how fast they settle the claim. Therefore...

3. It is best if you wait to settle the claim for a couple of weeks. Their offer will go up in that time frame. It also gives you time to assess any lingering pain or issues. In the meanwhile, they should be supplying you with a rental, which also gives them incentive to settle.

4. The *minute* you retain council or even threaten to, your settlement options are narrowed. Once you have a lawyer, the insurance company passes off internal handling of the claim to a special department. The more hardball your attorney plays, the more hardball they play back. Often you can get a larger settlement with an attorney, but your attorney will eat into the fees. Some insurance companies shut the process down until the attorney actually has to file a suit in court (which costs money) and then waits until the case is almost ready to go to court before they even try to make a decent offer to settle. They're judging your intentions *and* making sure you and your attorney are accumulating costs too. Note if you hire an ambulance chaser rather than a respectable attorney, the insurance companies love to drag things out because they hate those guys. They also know that most of those guys cut-and-run before the case goes to court unless there's evidence of major injury because those guys' clients don't have the money to pay them and their chances of winning are pretty damn slim for the costs/time it takes to go to trial.

5. In an accident where there is no apparent trauma (negative x-rays, no broken bones, nada), it often better to settle this yourself because you are not likely to score a large settlement due to nebulous "soft tissue damage" or things like that. Big settlements for stuff like that just doesn't happen very often.

6. The financial damage is much easier to quantify. Replacement value for the car in your area (find one at Carmax and use that as the measuring stick for the value rather than KBB). All medical expenses. Missed work. Make them pick up the rental car. Ruined clothing. Broken items inside the car. Etc. Get all that together and have that number. When you can itemize your costs and substantiate them the insurance adjuster tends to get much more attentive.

Long story short, she told me that their offer was absurd and if they continue down that path you may have to get an attorney just to get to a different claims department who will offer something reasonable. At the same time, you are not likely to score any kind of significant medical/pain and suffering settlement unless you have something more than being stiff for a couple of days. Usually in cases like that it's better to handle the settlement yourself.

Originally Posted by miked

I have a friend who is a lawyer and he says this is insanely low. But he also says everyone thinks they are going to get a payday and when things actually go to trial, the insurance companies almost always win. That is most people overestimate their "pain and suffering" damages. That's not to say you have one, or are looking for one, but it pays to get legal opinions and be realistic.

Good advice and really it's the same thing my sis is saying. In the event of soft tissue trauma, your chances of winning a big suit against an insurance company is pretty slim. It's fine to retain council to help negotiate the process, but they are going to take a chunk out of the settlement and it's likely you can do just about well on your own.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

I was in a wreck a few years ago, my insurance company offered them 2X damages (medical, car, lost wages) they said no, and sued... 3 years later they got... 2X damages.

This is pretty standard. Judges and even most juries tend to frown on gold-digging lawsuits when something reasonable has been offered. And when you figure the person had to wait for 3 years to get their money, that's a pretty epic fail. Which tends to happen in cases like that.

$300 combined for pain and suffering isn't reasonable and an offer like that could actually work against them in court because it's clearly not in good faith. If there's no evidence of major trauma (no blood, no broken bones, no surgery), my sis said she'd probably offer a couple of grand in pain and suffering to start with a $5-$7k soft cap before she started to take a harder look at things (and possibly a harder line).

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Good advice and really it's the same thing my sis is saying. In the event of soft tissue trauma, your chances of winning a big suit against an insurance company is pretty slim. It's fine to retain council to help negotiate the process, but they are going to take a chunk out of the settlement and it's likely you can do just about well on your own.

Thanks for the entire post. I cut the quote down based on my response. Honestly... I'm not looking for some large payday. The way this is trending right now is that I'm going to have no car and will have to start with a new loan dependent on my down payment. I'm mainly hoping to get the down payment covered. Everyone is saying the initial offer is insanely low which I agree with. What is reasonable? $1K? $2K? $5K. Also, I'm assuming it's reasonable that the amount is separate and will be the similar for my son. The reason mine was higher than my son was basically based on the medical report from the hospital. I had more injuries listed.

I appreciate everyone's responses in this.

Edit... looks like your post above answered the amount question. Thanks!

[CU Tiger]

Every state is different, but in SC (for example) if it goes to lawyers and you win the insurance company has to pay all court costs and attorney fees and this value can not count towards payout limits. But SC is a very insurance company unfriendly state and our rates reflect accordingly.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by heybrad

Are you saying they offered you $22K above your medical bills? Just to be clear they are offering to pay all medical costs including ambulance, hospital and doctor visits. I don't know exactly yet what that amount is. The $300 was combined for pain and suffering.

Yes, 22k + medical bills.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

$300?

LOL

IMO - and this is where I find insurance pretty much a shitty bargin (no offense to the auto insurance guys on the board), it's a fucking JOKE if you don't get at least the value that you had put into the old car already "for your troubles" so that you can go out and put yourself in a similar situation in a new car.

I mean - if you had put say...10k in payments into the car that was totaled, I'd say "MY TROUBLES ARE $10K IN SUNK CAR PAYMENTS" plus some amount for the inconveniences + pain+suffering.

Anything less than that I'd say "see you in court biatches." Especially if the 17 year old has already been charged by the cops.

So are you going to bitch when your rates multiply by about ten times?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Yes, 22k + medical bills.

Does this include the cost to total or repair your vehicle because it seems insanely high.

[stevew]

e totaled 3 cars now and I feel like I was treated fairly every time. Hopefully you get at or above private party sale kbb value

Glad you're okay, and the thought of 17 year old kids driving is scary.

[sooner333]

Before you do anything you need to be sure you have all the information you can. What the other driver may have in insurance may be a secret, but you need to have a good handle on your insurance coverage. You may have medical payments coverage which can reimburse you for your medical bills (but not be counted against the amount recovered from the at fault driver). You may also have UM coverage, you can submit your own claim to your insurance and they are going to have to be fair to you and may. Be able to find out the opponent's coverage limits. And of course you need to know your own damages.

Of course, this is all generic because each state has it's own insurance laws

[Chief Rum]

Were you under water on your car loan? I am guessing it would be a recent buy? I am surprised you wouldn't get more than your loan paid off for your totaled car.

When I got into an accident with my old Saturn, my insurance determined that the body damage was too expensive to repair next to the value of the car (a 2000 SR1 with over $200K miles on it), so they "totaled" it and cut me a check for its value (by whatever standard they used). Pre-accident, I couldn't have sold that thing for $1500 even if I prettied it up. They cut me a check for $3500--and let me keep the car! (The engine was untouched by the accident)

[stevew]

yeah, i just had a similar experience to Rum(f'n deer killed my car). They wanted too much for me to keep it though, I think the price of scrap and salvage is now pretty huge.

[Lathum]

I feel the need to respond to a few comments. I realize its going to be impossible for me to not sound defensive but whatever. I will preface this by saying I don't handle injuries.

I try to treat everyone fairly, and everyone I have ever encountered at my company does as well. I can assure you no one wakes up in the morning trying to find new ways to screw people or use their own words against them.

I mentioned it earlier, the other persons insurance company is paid to protect their client, it is what they are paid to do. They have a duty to believe their insured unless the facts prove otherwise.

Don't ever forget an insurance company is a for profit business, one of the most heavily regulated there is. So unless it is a really small time shady outfit they are operating within the confines of the laws for that state. You want to say they lack moral compass, fine, but look around at all the other products you use and don't throw stones in your glass houses. Never forget it is a business.

I honestly hate the perception that insurance companies are out to screw people left and right. I'll tell you something, its the other way around. I deal with people on a daily basis trying to scam me or slip one by me. Staging accidents, lying about damages, trying to claim damages are related that aren't, purchasing policies AFTER an accident, vandalizing their own cars, stealing their own stereos, trying to get paid out on inflated body shop estimates, etc...I could go on for a long time. Any time there is an accident we have to due our due diligence, there are just to many people out there looking to try and scam the system. I catch people EVERYDAY.

Regarding some of the other comments.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

$300?

LOL

IMO - and this is where I find insurance pretty much a shitty bargin (no offense to the auto insurance guys on the board), it's a fucking JOKE if you don't get at least the value that you had put into the old car already "for your troubles" so that you can go out and put yourself in a similar situation in a new car.

I mean - if you had put say...10k in payments into the car that was totaled, I'd say "MY TROUBLES ARE $10K IN SUNK CAR PAYMENTS" plus some amount for the inconveniences + pain+suffering.

Anything less than that I'd say "see you in court biatches." Especially if the 17 year old has already been charged by the cops.

I still never got an answer, but I have to say this is one of the least intelligent things you have ever posted, no offense. Everyone except Latrell Sprewell realize a car loses its value the second it drives off the show room floor. so why should someone whose car is a total loss be compensated for the original sale price when the car is worth far less?

There are several reasons why you are so wrong.

1. There would be RAMPANT fraud. Tell me whats to stop me and a friend from getting together, totaling my 2004 Ford Explorer that I originally paid 26K for, getting my check, buying another one used for 6K, and me and my buddy split the difference using one of our policies and the other one being at fault?

2. There is a reason why states have liability limits, it is so rates aren't through the roof, what you are proposing would make rates so insanely high no one would ever have insurance. The insurance company will only pay out what their policy holders max is, don't like it, get mad at the person who bought the policy, not the company.

I could go on all day about how terrible your comment is, feel free to let me know if you want to discuss further.

Originally Posted by mauchow

A shitty lawyer will win ypu a good sum a decent lawyer will get you all you need.

Get a lawyer. Fast. Before the girl gets one and her lawyer says it was your fault.

These are the types of cases that get settled for hundreds of thousands of dollars if not million or two. If there is any sort of injury lawyer up.

Lots of wrong in here.

First off, and I want to be very clear, I would NEVER try and talk anyone out of getting a lawyer.

So...

From the sound the other company has already accepted liability, its done. They can't change it now, the girl getting a lawyer has no bearing unless she was being targeted personally. I don't know about VA, but many states have laws that you can't sue your own insurance company, so to say she is going to get a lawyer to say it was your fault makes zero sense, the insurance company pays out, they have already said sheis at fault, case closed.

As for the dollar amounts you throw out for the accident Brad described they are laughable. Not to minimize his accident, but we total 10-15 cars A DAY with similar accidents. The kind of numbers you are mentioning are for major loss of life incidents.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I also think you should not be talking to her insurance company at all. They clearly want you to say something they can use against you if you take them to court. The less you say the better.

meh, they just want to close the claim and move on, trust me, they don't spend time weaving some intricate web to try and catch you in lies.

Originally Posted by claphamsa

I was in a wreck a few years ago, my insurance company offered them 2X damages (medical, car, lost wages) they said no, and sued... 3 years later they got... 2X damages.

Because insurance companies are VERY heavily regulated and know the laws well. As someone mentioned earlier, a large majority of people involved in an accident try to get WAY more then what is deserved and look at it as an opportunity.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Were you under water on your car loan? I am guessing it would be a recent buy? I am surprised you wouldn't get more than your loan paid off for your totaled car.

Why do you think that? The insurance company is obligated to pay out on the value of the vehicle using whatever criteria the state allows them to. Why should they pay a cent above that? People make poor financial decisions all the time, so an insurance company should shoulder that responsibility?

Anyway, these are my thoughts. I realize there is an inherent bias. Anytime you are dealing with human trauma while trying to make a profit there is going to be conflict. Just trying to gt people to see it from both sides.

[Desnudo]

Maybe the other replies cover this, but someone offering me a $100 bucks would infuriate me and have me calling a lawyer. Better to offer nothing.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I feel the need to respond to a few comments. I realize its going to be impossible for me to not sound defensive but whatever. I will preface this by saying I don't handle injuries.

I don't want to discuss this with you. I prefaced my comment by saying "no offense to the insurance company folks on the board." I didn't know you were going to take it personally and jump to the defense of the insurance industry.

FWIW though - I wasn't saying he should get the purchase price of his car from the other person's insurance company, but he ought to get some sort of value for it that recognizes its current market value and will enable him to get into a replacement car if his is totaled.

I get that you're defensive about your industry, so I'm not going to rag on you for that.

[Lathum]

It' fine if you dont want to discuss, but I don't see how what you said can be interpreted as anything other than purchase price

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

$300?

LOL

IMO - and this is where I find insurance pretty much a shitty bargin (no offense to the auto insurance guys on the board), it's a fucking JOKE if you don't get at least the value that you had put into the old car already "for your troubles" so that you can go out and put yourself in a similar situation in a new car.

I mean - if you had put say...10k in payments into the car that was totaled, I'd say "MY TROUBLES ARE $10K IN SUNK CAR PAYMENTS" plus some amount for the inconveniences + pain+suffering.

Anything less than that I'd say "see you in court biatches." Especially if the 17 year old has already been charged by the cops.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It' fine if you dont want to discuss, but I don't see how what you said can be interpreted as anything other than purchase price

Well maybe I wasn't precise enough in my wording then. My bad.

Not saying he ought to get "purchase price" but say he put $5k down and had paid $10k towards the total $40k value of the car already. I'm not arguing he ought to get $40k, but assuming the car is reasonably new (aka has a decent current market value) I'd assume he'd get at least $15k from the insurance company for it.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Maybe the other replies cover this, but someone offering me a $100 bucks would infuriate me and have me calling a lawyer. Better to offer nothing.

I think this is a good point. That offer was insulting. I explained the mentality earlier (and I'd love to know which insurance company this is), but it doesn't excuse the absurdity of it all and would make any normal person far more combative in dealing with the claim.

Also, what Lathum said was spot-on. I find it curious how some people want to see this as a get-rich quick scheme and don't seem to think there is anything wrong with that.

[Subby]

Brad - so glad you and your son are okay. I can't imagine going through that experience.

Good luck dealing with insurance. You're smart and I'm sure it will all work out.

[PilotMan]

I really don't see anyone posting that this is a get rich quick scheme here. I think the people who have posted by and large are mostly concerned about Brad being able to get the protection that he needs for his family moving forward.

We all know that there are a number of injuries or complications from that don't show up until a little later. The purpose of getting a lawyer isn't to nail the insurance company to the wall for millions it's to make sure that any inconvenience that the accident caused is covered. That is what insurance is for. They shouldn't be making you pull their teeth to get to that though. They should be more forthcoming with what you can get from them. It's good business. They should be treating you like a potential customer.

That means lost wages, transportation, increased medical costs and so on. It's not pain and suffering and the big payday, it's about the care and well being of two people who's injuries and loss was caused by another person who is already at fault.

There is a reasonable number here. The car sucks. I've lost a car and the financial loss wasn't anywhere near what the value (use) of what I'd lost.

Short answer, the insurance company insulted you with that offer. Plain and simple. The best you can do is to think of it as an opening salvo in the negotiation period.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Well maybe I wasn't precise enough in my wording then. My bad.

Not saying he ought to get "purchase price" but say he put $5k down and had paid $10k towards the total $40k value of the car already. I'm not arguing he ought to get $40k, but assuming the car is reasonably new (aka has a decent current market value) I'd assume he'd get at least $15k from the insurance company for it.

why?

You get what the car is worth on the open market. Why shold someone profit from it?

The point of insurance is to compensate people for damaged/ destroyed property, not for people to make money.

I'll repeat, it it worked the way you thought it should fraud would be more rampant than it currently is and the cost would fall to you, the consumer.

[jeff061]

Were you under water on your car loan? I am guessing it would be a recent buy? I am surprised you wouldn't get more than your loan paid off for your totaled car.

Originally Posted by Lathum

Why do you think that? The insurance company is obligated to pay out on the value of the vehicle using whatever criteria the state allows them to. Why should they pay a cent above that? People make poor financial decisions all the time, so an insurance company should shoulder that responsibility?

Paying off the remainder of the loan and paying off the value of the car are two different things. If I got paid the remainder of my loan and not the value of the car I'd be in the hole 10k.

Edit: I'm defining the "value" as the KBB(or whatever) value of the car at time of incident.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I really don't see anyone posting that this is a get rich quick scheme here. I think the people who have posted by and large are mostly concerned about Brad being able to get the protection that he needs for his family moving forward.

We all know that there are a number of injuries or complications from that don't show up until a little later. The purpose of getting a lawyer isn't to nail the insurance company to the wall for millions it's to make sure that any inconvenience that the accident caused is covered. That is what insurance is for. They shouldn't be making you pull their teeth to get to that though. They should be more forthcoming with what you can get from them. It's good business. They should be treating you like a potential customer.

That means lost wages, transportation, increased medical costs and so on. It's not pain and suffering and the big payday, it's about the care and well being of two people who's injuries and loss was caused by another person who is already at fault.

There is a reasonable number here. The car sucks. I've lost a car and the financial loss wasn't anywhere near what the value (use) of what I'd lost.

Short answer, the insurance company insulted you with that offer. Plain and simple. The best you can do is to think of it as an opening salvo in the negotiation period.

First off. I agree the opening offer was crap.

I don't think for one second Brad is trying to get rich or exploit the system

The bolded part you are dead wrong on. The insurance company will pay for reasonable treatment for a reasonable amount of time. The majority of people who get lawyers/ look for large settlements are looking for a payday, plain and simple. In some cases it is warranted, in most it is not.

I really can't stress enough how may people I have seen looking for a payday or requesting unreasonable amounts, and that is just by proxy. It is well over 70%.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Lathum

First off. I agree the opening offer was crap.

I don't think for one second Brad is trying to get rich or exploit the system

The bolded part you are dead wrong on. The insurance company will pay for reasonable treatment for a reasonable amount of time. The majority of people who get lawyers/ look for large settlements are looking for a payday, plain and simple. In some cases it is warranted, in most it is not.

I really can't stress enough how may people I have seen looking for a payday or requesting unreasonable amounts, and that is just by proxy. It is well over 70%.

This just comes across as a bitter insurance employee, with shades of DMV desk jockey. If you view someone getting a lawyer as equal to someone trying to scam you, then that's a problem with both you and the organization you work for.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Paying off the remainder of the loan and paying off the value of the car are two different things. If I got paid the remainder of my loan and not the value of the car I'd be in the hole 10k.

Edit: I'm defining the "value" as the KBB(or whatever) value of the car at time of incident.

States vary, but in general they pay the value of the vehicle, so the lien holder gets paid off first and then you get what is left over if any. If you are upside down sucks for you, the law dictates only the value is owed, again, the insurance company isn't responsible for your poor financial decisions.

I have never heard of a situation where JUST the loan is paid off and not the full value, makes no sense.

[mauchow]

I may have had a few too many drinks when I posted what I did.

Don't under-estimate the costs of the possible post-medical payments if it is a lingering issue for you guys. Get lots of proffessional opinion about what the injury is and get EVERYTHING you can get in the event that a worse-case scenario happens medically. That's the extra $$ that is to be had. I'm not talking about get-rich schemes, and I may have sounded like it. But my brain wasn't operating at 100% to expand what I meant to say during the Badgers game Saturday night.

Anyhoo, best of luck and I hope it all goes smoothly with insurance/lawyer, whatever it is.