Parents and High School athletes

[BYU 14]

Interested to have some of you weigh in on this.

We have a select few schools in Arizona that get a significant number of 'transfers' every year. One in particular has a million + dollar Football only facility that was built by wealthy boosters and has flat screen TV's and a lounge for the players as well as the standard meeting rooms, workout area, etc. This same same school also has an apartment building adjacent to campus that many players 'move' to every season from other schools, which is owned by a big booster.

First off, we have lost nobody to this school, so no sour grapes (we are on the opposite end of the valley) and we get several incoming freshmen each season that live in others schools boundaries in our district due to open enrollment. Kids in Arizona can start at any school they want, but they have to come to you. No recruiting at all and we don't do that.

There are restrictions for kids that transfer after they have played at one school. Basically unless they move or can claim a hardship they have to sit a year, which of course most kids are able to provide proof they moved. The validity of that 'move' (see said apartment complex) is another discussion.

Anyway, enough background, here is my question. I was in a semi-heated debate with a parent of a D1 recruit who lived in one attendance area, enrolled at a school out west as a freshmen (no problems here) though there was speculation he was recruited through camps that coach put on through one of his sons. Long story short, that school got put on probation and barred from post-season play for......Multiple recruiting violations.

This kid was then 'shopped' by his Dad, which I know because a coach at another school told me they were approached and the Dad told him he was looking at several schools and wanted to see what they could promise his kid in terms of exposure (featuring him) and if they had the horses to win a state title which was also very important. He was told his son could compete, they would love to have him, but would also make sure they lived in the school boundaries, that was all.

Well, that was the last they heard from him and he ended up in the apartment complex mentioned above, finished there and won 2 state titles. Good for him right? Well his Dad was involved in another recruiting investigation at this new school before this past season and had apparently given players from other schools tours of the facilities, one of whom ended up in those same apartments and allegedly did not have a parent there full time. This was hard to prove and eventually no action was taken against this school. Still the track record of this Dad raises a big stink cloud, based on both his actions and the fact that recruiting issues follow him and his son.

Cut to now, he is the parent I had this debate with and he basically believes that it is his duty to give his kid the best high school life possible no matter what it takes. I asked if it was only possible to have that experience with State Titles and going where you would be catered too the most. He replied "If your kid is not 100% happy you do what you have to do to make him happy."

Now I am not naive, I know some parents live through their kids or have no problem bending rules to get the best for their kid. The whole thing just makes me sick at this times. What this guy has done is basically raised a Diva (And this kid is that) and told him through his own actions that you don't have to follow the rules to get what you want. Fuck accountability, fuck working hard, fucking making the most out of the situation you are in. When things get tough you find the path of least resistance and take it, because you will find somebody willing to bend for you since you are talented.

At the end of the day this really doesn't affect me, but it just makes me sick that kids are raised this way. Football will end someday for this young man and unless he gets to the NFL, which is a long shot, what the hell is going to do when he has to make his own way? When he has bad day at work, when his wife puts on 5 pounds, when he has to face adversity? I just don't think this approach is doing a favor to your child and it seems to be coming more and more common at the High School level, which is ridiculous in itself. It's fucking High School! Yes it is competitive, yes as coaches we are paid to win and want to, but at what price?

Thoughts?

[Lathum]

A lot of parents fuck up their kids which is why we have people is society who suck at life.

My son is 2, it would make him 100% happy to watch Handy Manny and eat cookies all day, but I don't let him because you can't always get what you want in life.

[MrBug708]

Hamilton High?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Lathum

A lot of parents fuck up their kids which is why we have people is society who suck at life.

My son is 2, it would make him 100% happy to watch Handy Manny and eat cookies all day, but I don't let him because you can't always get what you want in life.

+1

It's interesting to listen to parents talk about this because there seems to be an increasing undercurrent of "you do what's best for your kid (and by extension, what's best for you)" because that's all that matters in this life.

That said, I think American society, in general, is going down this path - I say American because I don't really have much of a sense of any other country's society, not because we're an exception around the world- I honestly just don't know. We moralize greed and selfishness- we're becoming a country of objectivists and, frankly, it's scary to me as a utilitarian.

Back to the point at hand, a lot of parents seem to use their child as a crutch for this. "You can't possibly understand how it is since you're not a parent" or "They totally change your perspective on everything" becomes this mutated "Well, they're the most important thing in my life so I will do whatever it takes- ethical or unethical- to get what I think is best for them", never mind the lesson that teaches your children or the cost to society.

SI

[RainMaker]

Tough call there. On one hand, does this benefit the kid in life long term? Are these better high schools? Do they offer a better opportunity at getting a D1 scholarship to a school they may not otherwise be able to pay for financially? I mean if this gets a kid a full ride to UCLA, then I can't blame the parent.

As for making them "happy", I don't know if that's a bad reason either. I've heard of kids switching schools because of bullying before.

The bigger issue I see is kids taking the easy way out. Sort of a generation we've created that wants things easy. They want to play on the super star team instead of trying to win with the team they are given. You see it in the NBA a lot these days which has a lot of talent that are essentially cowards. If there aren't glaring benefits (scholarship for instance), I think it's just teaching the kid to take the easy way out in life. One day they'll get older and find out that you don't get to pick your teammates and no one gives a shit about your high school accomplishments. Daddy can't fix that. Adversity is something you need to face in life and some people want to avoid that. I don't think it ends well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

he basically believes that it is his duty to give his kid the best high school life possible no matter what it takes.

I agree with him on this about 99.9%. The 0.1% being something along the lines of a "meth-lab-and-stable-of-hookers" exception.

I asked if it was only possible to have that experience with State Titles and going where you would be catered too the most.

I don't have a problem with the former either frankly, I might have to parse the last bit a little based on the desire to be a featured back. I don't have any problem at all with wanting to find a situation where he's got the opportunity to be the main guy, I'd have a problem with it if he wanted a guarantee he'd be that guy even if he wasn't getting the job done.

Fuck accountability, fuck working hard, fucking making the most out of the situation you are in.

The first two aren't necessarily discounted in cases like these - generically speaking that is, specific parent/kid combos can & will vary -- but the third bit is troublesome ... or rather, I think I question whether it's a proper issue to raise. After all, isn't a big part of the American Dream improving your situation? Isn't that what we all strive to do? And isn't that something we should be encouraging in our kids, instead of conditioning them to simply accept their fate?

Ultimately, high school is a means to an end: a chance to improve the quality of the rest of your life through whatever you can reap from it. If part of that improvement process is, say, a college scholarship - athletic/academic/performing arts/whatever - then I'd say it's not only a parents right but their moral obligation to give their kid the best chance possible to get that.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Hamilton High?

They have the facilities, but actually it is not them.....Think Scottsdale

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

One day they'll get older and find out that you don't get to pick your teammates and no one gives a shit about your high school accomplishments.

Not so fast. I definitely know people - from politicians to car salesmen - who built careers from the foundation of being a top high school star. Hell, I know a judge in his 50's who still lists the captaincy of his state champion HS football team in his campaign ads every four years. I'm pretty sure that the same can be true to some extent in, say, criminal activities. (keep in mind the stories about gambling rings based on rec-league level football/basketball)

Stay in the community where you were a star & it can be at worst a leg up and sometimes a great deal more.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Tough call there. On one hand, does this benefit the kid in life long term? Are these better high schools? Do they offer a better opportunity at getting a D1 scholarship to a school they may not otherwise be able to pay for financially? I mean if this gets a kid a full ride to UCLA, then I can't blame the parent.

There are some schools that are more on radar than others, but we are talking elite talent level. Most athletes now begin to get exposure through camps as freshmen or sophomores so this will get there name out there and get Colleges following them. This young man would have had his pick of several D1 schools regardless of if he had played at the school within his boundaries, stayed at the school he enrolled at as a frosh or ended up where he did. I can see parents looking at athletes if they think their child is at the level to get an offer to a prestigious school, but again remember. This state has open enrollment so they can make that choice before they even enter high school. Since that is all fair and good I have no problem with that, so long as coaches are not recruiting them (Which is against the bylaws)

Originally Posted by RainMaker

As for making them "happy", I don't know if that's a bad reason either. I've heard of kids switching schools because of bullying before.

Bullying is reason you should always seek a better situation, so agreed on that point. In this case happy related more to 'look at me' and is doing nothing more than manipulating loopholes in the system and fostering a sense of entitlement that will be of no assistance to this young man when he hangs the cleats up at some point.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

One day they'll get older and find out that you don't get to pick your teammates and no one gives a shit about your high school accomplishments. Daddy can't fix that. Adversity is something you need to face in life and some people want to avoid that. I don't think it ends well.

Exactly

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not so fast. I definitely know people - from politicians to car salesmen - who built careers from the foundation of being a top high school star. Hell, I know a judge in his 50's who still lists the captaincy of his state champion HS football team in his campaign ads every four years. I'm pretty sure that the same can be true to some extent in, say, criminal activities. (keep in mind the stories about gambling rings based on rec-league level football/basketball)

Stay in the community where you were a star & it can be at worst a leg up and sometimes a great deal more.

I think this is a huge geographical think. This is likely true in SEC country and maybe parts of the midwest, but in the Northeast no one gives a shit if you were a high school football star. I would actually say most people would find it pathetic that you would be clinging to those glory days.

In BYUs neck of the woods I have no idea how people would look at it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I would actually say most people would find it pathetic that you would be clinging to those glory days.

Hey, I've been making fun of that particular judge for almost two decades now ... but it doesn't mean that it's not effective either.

As for the geographical thing, how do you explain the legends of "streetball"? I mean, you read about some of those guys & their initial notoriety seems to have come from their high school days even before they started ballin' on the playground. I'd virtually guarantee that h.s. basketball stars in the Bronx or neighborhoods in Detroit, Chicago, etc have a leg up in some situations based on their "fame" as well.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not so fast. I definitely know people - from politicians to car salesmen - who built careers from the foundation of being a top high school star. Hell, I know a judge in his 50's who still lists the captaincy of his state champion HS football team in his campaign ads every four years. I'm pretty sure that the same can be true to some extent in, say, criminal activities. (keep in mind the stories about gambling rings based on rec-league level football/basketball)

Stay in the community where you were a star & it can be at worst a leg up and sometimes a great deal more.

I'm sorry, it's all I could think of when you posted this



SI

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't have a problem with the former either frankly, I might have to parse the last bit a little based on the desire to be a featured back. I don't have any problem at all with wanting to find a situation where he's got the opportunity to be the main guy, I'd have a problem with it if he wanted a guarantee he'd be that guy even if he wasn't getting the job done.

Well essentially that was the guarantee that was requested, which as a coach I would never agree to. This player would have been 'the guy' at any school he played at, so not an issue there. Like I mentioned to RM, this is elite level, multiple D1 offers from top programs. My counterpoint would be, here is someone who wants his son to get the glory and shops him around to try and get the most beneficial situation. No bylaws govern parents here, but it is ethically wrong IMO and I am not giving a pass to the coaches that play into this behavior. In fact they are the biggest problem!

One other thing I would bring up is the kid who busted his ass for 3 years, sat and waited for his turn and was in line to get the position, only to see it handed/promised to somebody a little better. Yes I firmly believe in competition and this High School, so you are not given a participation trophy, you earn it or you sit. But, and again this falls on the coach, you have a certain amount of loyalty to the kids who have been to battle with you the whole time and worked for their chance. In the end if someone shows up better, then so be it. Just do it with integrity and make sure it is on the up and up.....Damn sure don't solicit it and make the player earn it, never promise it.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The first two aren't necessarily discounted in cases like these - generically speaking that is, specific parent/kid combos can & will vary -- but the third bit is troublesome ... or rather, I think I question whether it's a proper issue to raise. After all, isn't a big part of the American Dream improving your situation? Isn't that what we all strive to do? And isn't that something we should be encouraging in our kids, instead of conditioning them to simply accept their fate?

I agree and have no problem with a kid striving to improve their lot and I agree that we should encourage our children to set goals and not resign themselves to accept a given fate. The problem I have is when rules are circumvented to do so. I have always taught my kids to set goals, work to reach your full potential and never settle for less than you believe you are capable of. But never have I said, hey I can get you into this situation where you will be allowed to shine, we just have to say this if anyone asks, or so and so is going to hook us up with a place to live so you can go to this school.

I just think there is a fundamental difference between helping/encouraging your child to improve their lot through effort, determination and perseverance vs doing so through skirting the rules and taking advantage of others moral shortcomings to achieve this.

FWIW, all three of the schools involved in this story are solid programs and 2 won state titles this year. So has never been about any of the schools ability to contend at a high level with this player as a featured performer. One school was not going to cater to the parents demands, one school was no longer 'right' when they got in trouble for recruiting violations this parent had a hand in, hence the continued quest to find that third bowl of porridge that tasted just right

Again this isn't a case of simply looking out for the best interests of your son, it is a case of puching your son into the spotlight, damn the rules and damn being an ethically sound parent.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think this is a huge geographical think. This is likely true in SEC country and maybe parts of the midwest, but in the Northeast no one gives a shit if you were a high school football star. I would actually say most people would find it pathetic that you would be clinging to those glory days.

In BYUs neck of the woods I have no idea how people would look at it.

Our area's are pretty much the same Lathum. Football in Az has nowhere near the cache as it does in Texas, Florida, Ga, etc. Many sports go year round here, including Baseball, which isn't possible in some places. The population here is not attached to certain schools/communities to the level they are in other places since so many residents are transplants. So in the end there is no fanaticism for any one sport or what those that played in HS did.

Definitely a different geographic.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm with Lathum. I don't understand high school athletics being like this.

People that would reference any accomplishment from HS at any point after HS really need to get a life/accomplish something real.

[JonInMiddleGA]

About that apartment building ... are we talking about a free rent kind of deal here, or was it simply built as a conveniently located option for the relocations?

The former seems like an obvious violation, the latter seems like a smart call by a supporter of the program.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm sorry, it's all I could think of when you posted this



SI

This made me LOL hard! Because high school stars in my area are mostly in the Al Bundy mold. Not bad people, but like to live on their high school accomplishments because that's all the further they got.

One of my best friends fits this mold, baseball star in high school scouted by the Dodgers and others, goes to college and fucks up comes home and now watches highlight tapes of high school baseball. But it's almost in a tongue in cheek way. On our yearly trip to a Brewer game he makes us watch highlight tapes in his van from high school and rambles about how he should be playing for the Brewers that day.

Outside of being somewhat respected in the local baseball community (which his son will likely see more opportunities in baseball because of). What's more interesting will be how he handles that son (my godson) who is showing good baseball talent at 8 years old. I know he won't be transferring him to any elite baseball schools (they don't exist in Wisconsin) or moving down south. I think he'd be largely excited about having his son playing in a state tournament like he did and maybe not fucking up after high school and getting further than he did.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rowech

Make everything club activities, etc. but get sports out of high schools. And before anyone says impossible, it's not.

It's not impossible, just highly undesirable.

It's just become horrible to see what takes place in high schools with the kids, the parents,

You'd certainly see a lot less of both minus athletics / other extracurricular activities.

And don't discount the impact of/on the other activities either. I've seen even the existence of something like a middle school robotics program influence school choice, as well as donations/involvement. By nature, humans are a competitive species, remove one avenue & those that remain will simply find another.

[RainMaker]

But is it still competitive? I mean switching schools so your kid can play on an All-Star team doesn't seem competitive to me. Just seems like an easier path.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

They have the facilities, but actually it is not them.....Think Scottsdale

Chaparral?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

About that apartment building ... are we talking about a free rent kind of deal here, or was it simply built as a conveniently located option for the relocations?

The former seems like an obvious violation, the latter seems like a smart call by a supporter of the program.

Herein lies the rub Jon. The building is owned by the company of a wealthy school booster whose own son played there, will graduate this year and will also play D1 ball.

Several players over the past few seasons have lived there and by no coincidence they are all good players. Since this gentleman is the owner it is possible to fudge rent, offer special "move in discounts" which are common in these parts and have a way to cover your ass.

What I do know is that a couple of players being courted where shown the apartments and met the owner, so who knows what was worked out. In the end it is very hard to prove.

I do know this is not unheard of though because an acquaintance of mine rented a house in the attendance zone of the school his kid played for and allowed a stud running back and his mother to live there free so this player could play with his kid. He is not shy about talking about it, because he flat out said there was no way to prove anything.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Chaparral?

Claim your prize at the door

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But is it still competitive? I mean switching schools so your kid can play on an All-Star team doesn't seem competitive to me. Just seems like an easier path.

Different competition, this one is about exposure, creating value, etc.

There's several different strands to this conversation really, hard for me to keep them untangled.

For example, I'm not advocating anything like a blatant disregard for the existing rules governing transfers, etc. Maybe that's what happened in this case, but most of the ones I see (and there's quite a few) are completely bonafide moves, i.e. the family changes residences.

This case may involve an absolute blue-chip prospect, but most of the ones I see do not. Much more often it's guys who are borderline in one way or another, whether it's the difference in a BCS/non-BCS offer, or a D1 offer vs a IAA offer, or IAA vs DII offer.

We've just had one of those locally in the past couple of months, a guy who was a stud RB playing for a sub-500 team in one of the toughest regions in the state transferred to a smaller private school where all expectations are that he's got a legit shot at going for 2000 yards or more next season. He's going to get more exposure, develop a much stronger "brand", and get a better HS education in the process. Would have been crazy not to make the change under the circumstances. It's probably the difference in not only the quality of offers he'll get but also the quantity of options he'll have a year from now.

Even my son's school (not exactly known for turning out star athletes in football) has lost two future QB's in the past couple of years. Neither case was remotely nefarious but both were football motivated. One kid was at least a IAA prospect (probably ultimately at safety rather than QB IMO) but he was stuck in the QB depth chart behind upperclassmen & playing for a coach who rarely gives anyone below a junior p.t. if there's an upperclassman ahead of them. He transferred to a nearby school (under open enrollment) to play for a coach that's produced an NFL QB, where he's been a two-year starter and improved dramatically & got hyped as "the best young QB I've ever seen" by said coach. There's no longer an "if" he gets an offer, all that's left to be determined is where those offers will come from.

The other kid was a classmate of my son's through 7th grade. Easily the QB of the future for the program, he was also borderline academically for our place. Great personality, just not an exceptional student. His parents made the decision last year to enroll him in the public school where they live. He's tabbed as their QB of the future after a successful 8th grade season, he's doing fine with the less rigorous academics, considered at this point to be likely for a scholly offer of some sort a few years down the line. And sports was clearly his only avenue for that (unless somebody starts offering full rides for charming 'tweenage girls & bedeviling teachers). I've got no gripe with the decision, it's not an inconsequential savings for the family if they don't have to pay for college.

Those are the kinds of transfers I see a lot of. And, other than knowing that stud RB who transferred down is going to carve up our defense badly, I've got no problem at all with any of them. Hell, I applaud the parents for their judgment & the sacrifices they're making to give their kids the best opportunity possible. The bad transfers certainly exist (we've got hated rival in our region that's notorious for some incredibly dubious ones involving foreign exchange students) but those aren't the norm. And that seems worth mentioning in the bigger picture -- which is also under discussion in the thread -- aside from the specifics of this particular case which might have some less defensible aspects.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

(unless somebody starts offering full rides for charming 'tweenage girls & bedeviling teachers)

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Lemme tell you, this kid was a bluechipper in both of those. And at about 6'3 by age 14, he looked like your classic frat rat. The only thing missing was a keg in the picture somewhere.

[judicial clerk]

My personal experience is from playing small high school sports in California, being recruited in football by WAC level DI schools and DII schools, getting full scholarship and Playing a couple of years in WAC and stopping because of injuries.

I loved high school and college athletics and I think it is a shame more kids dont get to participate. I think that generally the stud athletes will get noticed wherever they play their high school sports. The transferring of schools thing usually is one of two things In my experience: it either involves a stud athlete who is being recruited by a school (often through its boosters) where the boosters get their self worth from having a good sports team or it involves a kid who (often through his family) gets his or her self worth from being recruited to play college sports. Usually these are kids whose parents can afford to send the kid to all the right camps, pay for their kid to be on the right "all-star team" and even move for purposes of being on the right high school team. All to attain the status of being a DI recruit. I dont really like either group. To me they are sort of akin to getting a sports car/ lifted 4x4 because because you have a small penis.

I prefer for the sports program to get the most out of each player as a person and an athlete, compete hard and experience wins and losses, and send the occasional freakish athlete to DI and maye the pros.

[CU Tiger]

I don't know all the ins and outs but this is a tough one.
My son is 11. By all early accounts if he progresses the way he is headed he will likely have and opportunity to be a D1 player. He is asking me for home gym equipment now to help him get better. He doesn't want to play baseball or basketball this year so he can practive football more. Currently I have declined ont he weights, as I think he is (marginally) too young. However I have helped develop agility and speed workouts for him that he does fanatically. (kid does self bag drills with a stop watch in each hand to get "accurate" times)
As he gets older I intend to help him in any way I can.

A good friend of mine is an NFL line coach, his likely position. If this goes the way its looking I can see private sessions with said coach. Does that make me a bad parent or a good one?

Again a linemen is a diferent animal than a star tailback/qb/wr...in that he will not attract attention on his own. If my actions can assist in getting the scholly offer that he wants I may save myself $80k+ Heck Id be a fool not to specualte a few grand to try and achieve that, if I feel it is realistic.

Now if we dont move, or zone dont get re-drawn he will play high school ball at the same high school I do. (Well same school name, new building and new stadium) That ahs a major attraction for me, as I was a mutt with no family lineage.

So would I move my son to a different school if it meant he was more likely to get a scholly....yep.
Just to win more games or a better shot at a state title?
Maybe.

Doesnt that make me part of the problem, perhaps.

I would not take free housing or lie about address to get him into another school. But I would consider relocating my family under the right circumstances.

[cougarfreak]

As a teacher, this is why I've reached a point where I want athletics completely out of schools. It's become comical what happens in the name of sports. Make everything club activities, etc. but get sports out of high schools. And before anyone says impossible, it's not. It would take a change the way things are done but it could be done. It's just become horrible to see what takes place in high schools with the kids, the parents, academics, etc.

Quoted for truth. And I've coached hs sports for 20 years. They need to make athletics at that age all club sports, recruiting at the high school level has gotten absurd. With school budgets tightening this would save loads of cash as well.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

My personal experience is from playing small high school sports in California, being recruited in football by WAC level DI schools and DII schools, getting full scholarship and Playing a couple of years in WAC and stopping because of injuries.

I loved high school and college athletics and I think it is a shame more kids dont get to participate. I think that generally the stud athletes will get noticed wherever they play their high school sports. The transferring of schools thing usually is one of two things In my experience: it either involves a stud athlete who is being recruited by a school (often through its boosters) where the boosters get their self worth from having a good sports team or it involves a kid who (often through his family) gets his or her self worth from being recruited to play college sports. Usually these are kids whose parents can afford to send the kid to all the right camps, pay for their kid to be on the right "all-star team" and even move for purposes of being on the right high school team. All to attain the status of being a DI recruit. I dont really like either group. To me they are sort of akin to getting a sports car/ lifted 4x4 because because you have a small penis.

I prefer for the sports program to get the most out of each player as a person and an athlete, compete hard and experience wins and losses, and send the occasional freakish athlete to DI and maye the pros.

All that's well and good if all high school programs in teh same communities were created equally, but they are not.

Not even close, in some places.

The availability of resources can vary *widely*, depending on the laws, school system rules, and culture of where you are. In areas where extra coaches can be hired and better facilities can be bought, it makes a *world* of difference where a kid attends. At one point when I was in Tucker, we had a dozen or so positional coaches who had played their position at the college level or higher, plus a Head Coach and two Coordinators. Other high schools in the same county had as few as four coaches *total* for Varsity, JV, and Freshmen. In many of those places, the coaches have never played football, and haven't even coached it at any level for more than a year or two. And this disparity existed within a major metro area. It can be even worse in smaller towns and rural areas. For example, my older brother, a teacher, was offered an assistant coach position at a high school fairly recently in another county in Georgia. He would have been one of only three assistants, charged with coaching QBs, backs, and receivers. He never played organized football at any level--not even rec ball as a little boy. And he's never *coached* football at any level. I love my brother, and he's great with kids, but he'd be the first to tell you a kid is going to have a better shot at earning a scholarship at Tucker or any other heavily booster-fed program than under his coaching . Making sweeping statements about what kind of kid and parent dose these sorts of transfers isn't fair. I'll give a concrete example.

Dwayne Harris was a starting freshman quarterback at Lithonia High School in DeKalb County. Lithonia was/is one of those places I mentioned above where you'd find just four or five paid coaches for the entire program. Dwayne transferred to Tucker, where...

• ...he got to train in a much better weight room, with quite a few college athletes there at times
• ...he got much better coaching
• ...he got more exposure
• ...he had MUCH less injury risk. (You play QB at a top-tier high school, and there's a decent chance you leave half or more of your games with a clean jersey. You play at Lithonia, and you're getting hit a bunch every single week.)

There's very little chance Dwayne goes to college, let alone signs a rookie contract with the NFL like he did, without football. The sacrifices his family would have had to make would have very likely been too great. But the relatively small sacrifice they made to move and get him in Tucker very likely made a massive difference. He's got a *much* greater chance of surviving high school without major injury and improving enough to earn a college scholarship (and in his case, get drafted) at Tucker than at Lithonia.

And this kid ain't no prima donna. Not even close. As his Young Life leader, I had to practically make him stop saying "Yes, sir"/"No, sir" to me. By all accounts, he didn't change a lick as he became a star at East Carolina, either. I sat next to an ECU assistant coach on a plane last year, told him I knew Dwayne at Tucker, and the first thing he said was "Man, y'all sent us a GREAT kid!"

Are there cases where it's about arrogance and whatnot??? Absolutely. I'll allow that in places where the coaching and facilities are roughly equal or even in the same general ballpark, it's more likely about that sort of thing. But it's silly to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are very legitimate reasons for moving a high school kid to another school for sports given certain sets of circumstances.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

All that's well and good if all high school programs in teh same communities were created equally, but they are not.

Not even close, in some places.

The availability of resources can vary *widely*, depending on the laws, school system rules, and culture of where you are. In areas where extra coaches can be hired and better facilities can be bought, it makes a *world* of difference where a kid attends. At one point when I was in Tucker, we had a dozen or so positional coaches who had played their position at the college level or higher, plus a Head Coach and two Coordinators. Other high schools in the same county had as few as four coaches *total* for Varsity, JV, and Freshmen. In many of those places, the coaches have never played football, and haven't even coached it at any level for more than a year or two. And this disparity existed within a major metro area. It can be even worse in smaller towns and rural areas. For example, my older brother, a teacher, was offered an assistant coach position at a high school fairly recently in another county in Georgia. He would have been one of only three assistants, charged with coaching QBs, backs, and receivers. He never played organized football at any level--not even rec ball as a little boy. And he's never *coached* football at any level. I love my brother, and he's great with kids, but he'd be the first to tell you a kid is going to have a better shot at earning a scholarship at Tucker or any other heavily booster-fed program than under his coaching . Making sweeping statements about what kind of kid and parent dose these sorts of transfers isn't fair. I'll give a concrete example.

Dwayne Harris was a starting freshman quarterback at Lithonia High School in DeKalb County. Lithonia was/is one of those places I mentioned above where you'd find just four or five paid coaches for the entire program. Dwayne transferred to Tucker, where...

• ...he got to train in a much better weight room, with quite a few college athletes there at times
• ...he got much better coaching
• ...he got more exposure
• ...he had MUCH less injury risk. (You play QB at a top-tier high school, and there's a decent chance you leave half or more of your games with a clean jersey. You play at Lithonia, and you're getting hit a bunch every single week.)

There's very little chance Dwayne goes to college, let alone signs a rookie contract with the NFL like he did, without football. The sacrifices his family would have had to make would have very likely been too great. But the relatively small sacrifice they made to move and get him in Tucker very likely made a massive difference. He's got a *much* greater chance of surviving high school without major injury and improving enough to earn a college scholarship (and in his case, get drafted) at Tucker than at Lithonia.

And this kid ain't no prima donna. Not even close. As his Young Life leader, I had to practically make him stop saying "Yes, sir"/"No, sir" to me. By all accounts, he didn't change a lick as he became a star at East Carolina, either. I sat next to an ECU assistant coach on a plane last year, told him I knew Dwayne at Tucker, and the first thing he said was "Man, y'all sent us a GREAT kid!"

Are there cases where it's about arrogance and whatnot??? Absolutely. I'll allow that in places where the coaching and facilities are roughly equal or even in the same general ballpark, it's more likely about that sort of thing. But it's silly to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are very legitimate reasons for moving a high school kid to another school for sports given certain sets of circumstances.

Very well said.
BTW I've met Dwayne a couple times. GREAT young man. Anybody would be proud to have their son grow up like him in my limited experience.

[BYU 14]

Ben and CU Tiger, you both make good points.

Ben in the case you mention I can see the positives and none of the reasons you mention have anything to do with putting the kid first, parents trying to live through his deeds, or crooked boosters luring him to play. There are many young athletes who transfer for the reasons you mention and you can add academics to the list as well.

I realize I painted this with a broad brush and there are always exceptions and cases where it is not all about the player. I was specifically addressing a certain situation where it was not for any motivation other then the selfishness of a parent/booster, which leads to entitlement in the kid and spoils the integrity of the sport.

You can't apply this to every case, my point is that the number of cases in which this is happening is increasing every season and it is disturbing. When I got into coaching you changed schools because the family moved for a non-sports related reason and if you moved for a sports related reason it was due to coaching change or perhaps an issue with a coaches treatment of your player. Now High School ball is almost to the point where you may as well make recruiting legal it is so rampant and to me it is a dark cloud over the sport.

CU Tiger

The ways you mention helping your son are fine. Private coaching, absolutely fine and I would encourage it if you have the means and he wanted to focus on football. HS Football is now an 10-11 month commitment in most places if a student athlete isn't playing other sports, so he would likely start weight training early January once he is in HS, have spring ball, maybe a summer team camp, etc. There is not much of a window for private coaching in most places now if you are commiting only to FB, but if you have the window and a good coach, absolutely do it.

In terms of moving so he can attend another school, if you are not shopping him and simply select a school that may have a better program and you do it the right way, maybe. Again my feelings are mixed on this as the proliferation of camps (Nike, Sparq, etc) give you more than enough opportunity to get exposure and get on the radar. If you were in a poor program with substandard coaching and moved him for that reason, than that is different as a player deserves to be coached by a knowledgeable, quality individual and that should be consideration.

My example and many other current transfers have absolutely zero to do with those reasons though. Kids are solicited, parents are attracted to the gold ring and they are are leaving solid programs (top 10 schools) for schools that are higher in the rankings. Quality of coaching = same, facilites = same or close, exposure = same. If you have all those things with an eye to the future why transfer or allow your child to be wooed by boosters?

If the sole reason is a State Championship because a team is being stacked then what have you really taught the player? Forget working to win, go where you are given a short cut to do it? In the end, and I say this with confidence, there are many experiences/lessons a player can get from playing High School sports that will serve them well later in life. Winning a State Title is nowhere near the top 5. I have coached in 2 State Title games in 25 years and they were both great experiences, but neither makes my list of top experiences from my career. In fact most of my favorite memories have nothing to do with what happened on the field.

[Ben E Lou]

BYU14, fwiw, I agree with you in the picture you paint in your community. There's actually a similar-sounding part in metro Atlanta. Gwinnett County has several schools that are 2,500+ students and all have big-time programs. Transferring from one of those to another would be pretty much like what you describe. It really doesn't make much sense, and probably does send a bad message.

On taking athletics out of high schools, I'd say that's a big mistake. I've known too many cases over the years of kids who would have left high school before graduating were it not for athletics, whether because of the influence of a coach, or simply because they had to go to school to be eligible. And in at least some of those cases, somewhere along the lines the kid matured to the point that he *wanted* to graduate. But the odds are that if he'd left earlier--an action he's far more likely to take if no athletics are present--he's gone for good.

[cougarfreak]

BYU14, fwiw, I agree with you in the picture you paint in your community. There's actually a similar-sounding part in metro Atlanta. Gwinnett County has several schools that are 2,500+ students and all have big-time programs. Transferring from one of those to another would be pretty much like what you describe. It really doesn't make much sense, and probably does send a bad message.

On taking athletics out of high schools, I'd say that's a big mistake. I've known too many cases over the years of kids who would have left high school before graduating were it not for athletics, whether because of the influence of a coach, or simply because they had to go to school to be eligible. And in at least some of those cases, somewhere along the lines the kid matured to the point that he *wanted* to graduate. But the odds are that if he'd left earlier--an action he's far more likely to take if no athletics are present--he's gone for good.

If he'd leave because there are no athletics, he's not there for the right reasons. This isn't college ball, where you can leave and go pro (except in very, very few cases lebron comes to mind). This is HIGH SCHOOL, you are there to freaking learn. It's compulsory EDUCATION.

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[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

If he'd leave because there are no athletics, he's not there for the right reasons. This isn't college ball, where you can leave and go pro (except in very, very few cases lebron comes to mind). This is HIGH SCHOOL, you are there to freaking learn. It's compulsory EDUCATION.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

I'm not talking about leaving to go pro. I'm talking about preventing drop outs. 15-year-olds don't always make the best decisions and aren't always in school for "the right reasons." I'd rather entice 15-year-old Johnny to stay in school with athletics until 17-year-old Johnny has matured to the point that he wants to be there.

[judicial clerk]

I think the example of Dwaine Harris still proves my point. Don't you think a person with Dwaine Harris' ability would have earned a college scholarship playing at most any high school? Generally I think he would have. Also I am not writing that a guy like Dwaine Harris is the arrogant prima donna. The arrogant prima donnas are the boosters who recruit guys like Dwaine Harris to go to their high school so that the team can keep on winning and these boosters and their football playing sons can keep on basking in the reflected glow of the success that a talent like Dwaine Harris can bring.

Don't get me wrong, though, I don't fault a guy like Dwaine Harris for using his god given athletic ability and I don't fault coaches who are simply trying to help guys like Dwaine Harris maximize their potential. I love stories where people work hard to achieve, and that may be what Tucker is all about. But Ben you can't tell me that you don't know of the guys who wouldn't give a kid like Dwaine Harris the time of day except that he happens to have NFL level talent that these hangers on want to be associated with.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I'm not talking about leaving to go pro. I'm talking about preventing drop outs. 15-year-olds don't always make the best decisions and aren't always in school for "the right reasons." I'd rather entice 15-year-old Johnny to stay in school with athletics until 17-year-old Johnny has matured to the point that he wants to be there.

Totally agree with Ben on this one. Yes High School is to learn, but athletics can serve as both a powerful motivational tool as well as provide structure that students can incorporate in their learning.

We have study hall twice a week before practice where we monitor the kids doing homework. We have weekly grade checks and require students to complete action plans (tutoring, make up work, etc) on any classes they are deficient in. We stress the word student in student athlete and that is #1 priority.

There are problems in HS athletics for sure and we can probably all agree on that, but it would be a far bigger problem if you took athletics away. for every negative example like the one that started this thread, I can count several where Football or sports in general, contributed to kids becoming better students.

Take away the bad seeds and there are many more kids who need sports. Some are great athletes, some barely see the field in 4 years of school, but stick with it because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and confidence. For some kids coach is Dad and it is a great privilege to mentor these yougn men.

Sports in HS perfect? No. Sports in HS needed? Emphatically yes.

To clean up these issues we need coaches who don't put winning at all cost above everything else and care more about the players future outside of sports, than their future in it. We need parents to stress work ethic and character over using your talent to manipulate things in your favor. It probably won't ever happen, but it is a worthy goal and reason why most of us coach.

[cougarfreak]

Totally agree with Ben on this one. Yes High School is to learn, but athletics can serve as both a powerful motivational tool as well as provide structure that students can incorporate in their learning.

We have study hall twice a week before practice where we monitor the kids doing homework. We have weekly grade checks and require students to complete action plans (tutoring, make up work, etc) on any classes they are deficient in. We stress the word student in student athlete and that is #1 priority.

There are problems in HS athletics for sure and we can probably all agree on that, but it would be a far bigger problem if you took athletics away. for every negative example like the one that started this thread, I can count several where Football or sports in general, contributed to kids becoming better students.

Take away the bad seeds and there are many more kids who need sports. Some are great athletes, some barely see the field in 4 years of school, but stick with it because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and confidence. For some kids coach is Dad and it is a great privilege to mentor these yougn men.

Sports in HS perfect? No. Sports in HS needed? Emphatically yes.

To clean up these issues we need coaches who don't put winning at all cost above everything else and care more about the players future outside of sports, than their future in it. We need parents to stress work ethic and character over using your talent to manipulate things in your favor. It probably won't ever happen, but it is a worthy goal and reason why most of us coach.

Ideally, yes. Unfortunately, this is not the case these days. HS athletics can be a powerful positive tool, but its getting way, way too sleazy, a lot lot college athletics.

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[JonInMiddleGA]

I'll add another plus for the case of the existence of HS sports: you take it away & you eliminate the reason that a large portion of the community ever steps foot on campus or even knows/cares that the school exists or not. Maybe that is a regional thing, where either football or sometimes basketball is a major source of entertainment for a community but also a primary unifying factor of the community (in some cases seemingly the only unifying factor).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'll add another plus for the case of the existence of HS sports: you take it away & you eliminate the reason that a large portion of the community ever steps foot on campus or even knows/cares that the school exists or not. Maybe that is a regional thing, where either football or sometimes basketball is a major source of entertainment for a community but also a primary unifying factor of the community (in some cases seemingly the only unifying factor).

I noticed that a lot more in Virginia than in other parts of the country that I've lived and that includes Texas. It's the only time I've seen the football "machine" of the South at work and I have a greater appreciation for it.

I just don't understand why parents who haven't had kids in school for 10 years still follow the high school's football team and go every week with friends. I'm not saying it's bad or good but it's just foreign to me and you don't really see that in the Midwest at all. However, if it keeps parents more involved in the community, even after the kids leave- I suppose that's not necessarily a bad thing. Tho I'd be a lot more excited if it were about academics or even the arts as opposed to sports but it will never be that way.

SI

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Quoted for truth. And I've coached hs sports for 20 years. They need to make athletics at that age all club sports, recruiting at the high school level has gotten absurd. With school budgets tightening this would save loads of cash as well.

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Couldn't disgaree more with this.

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

On taking athletics out of high schools, I'd say that's a big mistake. I've known too many cases over the years of kids who would have left high school before graduating were it not for athletics, whether because of the influence of a coach, or simply because they had to go to school to be eligible. And in at least some of those cases, somewhere along the lines the kid matured to the point that he *wanted* to graduate. But the odds are that if he'd left earlier--an action he's far more likely to take if no athletics are present--he's gone for good.

Not just that, but 95%+ of people who play HS sports (and I'm including down to JV/Freshman) don't even have a chance to play at the college level. They're doing it to improve self-esteem, to stay somewhat in shape, or to have a common activity to do with friends after school. Even amongst the small percentage that does have a shot at college, it's usually D2 or D3 or non-scholarship, and merely a tool that can help them get into a marginally better college than grades/test scores alone would allow. You can't throw out a system that helps 99 people because of the headaches that 1 potential D1 football/basketball stud creates.

Maybe it's easier for me to say because of the area I live in - Massachusetts doesn't have the football machinery of other states, and produces maybe 10-12 BCS kids from public schools each year*. I've also heard of families doing some shopping - or at least taking athletic prowess of a town into consideration - when moving to the area, but never from school district to school district. The Prep school system offers a much more convenient outlet than moving an entire family.

* - Lest you think I don't know about the stud athletes and the recruiting issues, in addition to my local HS coaching I coach for a club lacrosse team with 17 JR's already committed D1 and at least 8 SO's with D1 offers already on the table.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'll add another plus for the case of the existence of HS sports: you take it away & you eliminate the reason that a large portion of the community ever steps foot on campus or even knows/cares that the school exists or not. Maybe that is a regional thing, where either football or sometimes basketball is a major source of entertainment for a community but also a primary unifying factor of the community (in some cases seemingly the only unifying factor).

My community is a bit of an outlier with stronger athletic participation (about 70% of students playing at least one sport) and more town pride than many others (more multi-generational families is probably a part of that) but we still get ~3000 (out of a 20,000 person town) at the home football games, and I've seen numbers that high for lacrosse and soccer games when teams are deep in the playoffs. I don't know exact breakdowns, but I know there are certainly a number of parents there that don't have kids in the school system anymore, or currently do/fully intend to send their kid to private school (a Governor's, Middlesex, Belmont Hill) once he reaches the HS level, but are still a member of the community and come to hang out with friends/let their pre-HS kids run around behind the bleachers.

[JediKooter]

I'd ask the dad what kind of educational commitment his son is going to provide if he has a career ending injury.

[SnDvls]

BYU - I didn't read all of the responses but would it also suprise you that this same dad is shopping his kid to colleges with the expectation that they also offer and accept his son's "good friend"? This dad also owns a gym and is really trying to get exposure for his gym and get more "kids" to come there so he can say he trained them.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

BYU - I didn't read all of the responses but would it also suprise you that this same dad is shopping his kid to colleges with the expectation that they also offer and accept his son's "good friend"? This dad also owns a gym and is really trying to get exposure for his gym and get more "kids" to come there so he can say he trained them.

I see you know who I am talking about, LOL. Yeah I know all about Pops and his shady antics. Don't get me wrong, the player is a great athlete, but I wouldn't quite put him at the level that his Dad puts him at with all these "demands". Thought what they did to the local schools at first was bush league as well....Notice how they softened their stance after all the negative backlash.

Truly a piece of work this guy, exploiting his kid for monetary gain for a business just takes it to a whole different level, but I didn't even go there initially. Hopefully people will be smart enough to realize that genetics played a bigger role in his son's success than the training he was getting, which is offered at several gyms in the valley with much more credibility.

[molson]

A little OT but it's depressing to me that High School sports has "boosters". I mean, of all the good causes out there to be supporting, theirs is they want their old high school team to win more games. (It's only slightly less depressing that college sports boosters exist.)

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I see you know who I am talking about, LOL. Yeah I know all about Pops and his shady antics. Don't get me wrong, the player is a great athlete, but I wouldn't quite put him at the level that his Dad puts him at with all these "demands". Thought what they did to the local schools at first was bush league as well....Notice how they softened their stance after all the negative backlash.

Truly a piece of work this guy, exploiting his kid for monetary gain for a business just takes it to a whole different level, but I didn't even go there initially. Hopefully people will be smart enough to realize that genetics played a bigger role in his son's success than the training he was getting, which is offered at several gyms in the valley with much more credibility.

yup know exactly whom you are talking about...all of them

he's a great athlete for sure, but I don't want the daddy headache here.

Dad has done a lot of talking/recruiting to the media, but the truth of the matter is that he just is talking, but not beign honest.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

A little OT but it's depressing to me that High School sports has "boosters". I mean, of all the good causes out there to be supporting, theirs is they want their old high school team to win more games. (It's only slightly less depressing that college sports boosters exist.)

There are 2 distinct levels here too Molson. Our program requires about 30+ thousand a year to run it the way we "want" to run it. This includes equipment replacement, new gear, field and weight room maintenance, camps, shirts, awards and team meals for the players on game day. If we don't raise what we need, we cut back or work harder. (Last year we actually had to cut team meals out for a couple of games)

These costs also vary depending on what we need to get each year. Over the last 3 seasons for example we have been replacing helmets and getting the new revolution helmets for safety reasons, which run $200 a piece. When you have 100+ kids in your program you can see how that adds up.

The district chips in funds as well, but we don't have our coaching stipends supplemented by boosters, or get sent on "coaching retreats" or anything like that. It mostly all goes to the kids for necessities.

Ours and most schools accomplish this with a Booster club, which is basically just parents volunteering their time to set up fundraisers, solicit donations and utilize any connections they have to support the program. It is really thankless work and we appreciate them no end. Now we will occasionally get someone with a successful business that might chip something on behalf of their company, but it no means what would be considered windfall. Our demographic is lower middle class to middle class and we just have to work hard to get the funds we need to support the program.

Like I said most schools have similar setups and unfortunately some of the inner city schools have virtually nothing in place. What disturbs me are the schools that have actual benefactors, usually wealthy alumni or parents of players that will spare no expense to give their programs an advantage. You can make arguments for and against some of these practices depending on how and what that money is being used for.

Make a personal donation to buy a new scoreboard or maybe overall the playing surface? No problem at all, if you have it and want to help in that way god bless you. Offering jobs, assisting families with moving expenses to get into your boundaries or paying a tuition to a private school solely because the kid is a good athlete......That enters the realm of bullshit as far as I'm concerned and Colleges would get hit with sanctions for some of the stuff that happens in HS.

But despite all it's flaws I still love being involved with HS football and that is because the impact you can make on a kids life and the memories and life lessons you get from being a coach make it very easy to swallow the occasional spoonfuls of poison and soldier on. There are still enough of us out there that realize it is still about the kids and that's what drives us.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

There are 2 distinct levels here too Molson. Our program requires about 30+ thousand a year to run it the way we "want" to run it. This includes equipment replacement, new gear, field and weight room maintenance, camps, shirts, awards and team meals for the players on game day. If we don't raise what we need, we cut back or work harder. (Last year we actually had to cut team meals out for a couple of games)

These costs also vary depending on what we need to get each year. Over the last 3 seasons for example we have been replacing helmets and getting the new revolution helmets for safety reasons, which run $200 a piece. When you have 100+ kids in your program you can see how that adds up.

The district chips in funds as well, but we don't have our coaching stipends supplemented by boosters, or get sent on "coaching retreats" or anything like that. It mostly all goes to the kids for necessities.

Ours and most schools accomplish this with a Booster club, which is basically just parents volunteering their time to set up fundraisers, solicit donations and utilize any connections they have to support the program. It is really thankless work and we appreciate them no end. Now we will occasionally get someone with a successful business that might chip something on behalf of their company, but it no means what would be considered windfall. Our demographic is lower middle class to middle class and we just have to work hard to get the funds we need to support the program.

Like I said most schools have similar setups and unfortunately some of the inner city schools have virtually nothing in place. What disturbs me are the schools that have actual benefactors, usually wealthy alumni or parents of players that will spare no expense to give their programs an advantage. You can make arguments for and against some of these practices depending on how and what that money is being used for.

Make a personal donation to buy a new scoreboard or maybe overall the playing surface? No problem at all, if you have it and want to help in that way god bless you. Offering jobs, assisting families with moving expenses to get into your boundaries or paying a tuition to a private school solely because the kid is a good athlete......That enters the realm of bullshit as far as I'm concerned and Colleges would get hit with sanctions for some of the stuff that happens in HS.

But despite all it's flaws I still love being involved with HS football and that is because the impact you can make on a kids life and the memories and life lessons you get from being a coach make it very easy to swallow the occasional spoonfuls of poison and soldier on. There are still enough of us out there that realize it is still about the kids and that's what drives us.

OK, I get that, I think the word "booster" just has a bad connotation to me, and I wasn't even thinking about the necessary fundraising. I mean hey, my little league baseball team was supported by some local bar. But ya, like you said, I was just thinking about that above and beyond stuff

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

OK, I get that, I think the word "booster" just has a bad connotation to me, and I wasn't even thinking about the necessary fundraising. I mean hey, my little league baseball team was supported by some local bar. But ya, like you said, I was just thinking about that above and beyond stuff

And there is plenty of that above and beyond stuff too.......

[Senator]

My brother coaches at the top private school in Texas. Bringing in 5-6 scholarship players a year is the norm. They come from all walks of life, go to a school that normally cost 28k a year, and puts out a 99% kill rate on college acceptance. I tell him all the time, he basically is coaching college football at the high school level. He recruits. They win. Kids are better off. Is it right? Depends on which end of the stick you are on.

[Senator]

I would add that in 2007 I coached a kid in youth football here in the metroplex in Texas, who was so good, a traveling select team from California, came to see him, ended up getting his dad a high paying job in Cali, they moved there, just to play football.