Revolution(s) in the Arabian World

[whomario]

Anybody following this ? Has made for big news over here (in part because Tunesia and Egypt are major vacation targets for germans) and i personally find it quite uplifting to see, although one has to be realistic and fear that it´s only going to result in a lateral move as far as the political and social structure is concerned.
Still, it is quite astonishing how quickly it is spreading (Jordan now hit with protests, the Libanon has been in a state of chaos for the last couple weeks) and how sudden this all is coming (from what i know).

Also, i have booked a journey to egypt (7 days on the nile, 2 days cairo) months ago that is supposed to start next Thursday and that has me in real limbo as i´m really not sure what to hope for here ... Avtually i do hope they are able to make some changes, worst case i´ll fly elsewhere afterall, but best would be if the government would just cave in quick.

AFP: At least '1,000 arrested' in Egypt protests

As Arabs protest, U.S. speaks up

[lungs]

What does the opposition represent in these countries? Are they left-wing? Are they fundamentalist? Or are they a coalition of many views that just want to overthrow the status quo?

I guess I'm not that clear on that part. And judging by the little play it's getting in American news, I guess most Americans don't give a shit. Until the word al-Qaeda gets mentioned.

[JPhillips]

I'm sure their are organizations in the background of various ideologies, but it's largely driven by people fed up with decades of autocratic rule.

edit: A lot of people saw the government in Tunisia fall and it gave them the courage to protest.

[whomario]

In Tunisia there is no real head-figure as far as i know, in Egypt there might be El Baradei who was the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency of the United Nations for a long time (and got the Noble Peace Prize in 05 for his work there) and has been asked and endorsed by multiple oposition groups to run against Mubarak in the upcoming election.
However, this is all but impossible due to a couple of articles in the Egyptian constitution, mainly No76 ( Egypt’s Government Services Portal - Egypt Constitution - Chapter Five )
There has been formed a loose grouping of most oposition groups , headed by him : National Association for Change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Egypt is also under Emergency Law for 30 years now, just in 2007 there have been passed a couple laws that make your hairs stand up (under the claim of being anti-terrorism they are really just another tool to imprison people) ...


However, the protest did not get started by that organisation, although it´s very likely that the protesters have ElBaradei and the grouping in mind when it comes to a replacement.

EDIT : Just read that ElBaradei is actually headed for Cairo just now and will likely participate in demonstrations tomorrow which are scheduled after the Friday Prayer just after noon.

[Toddzilla]

"nuke 'em to asphalt" comment from JiMGa in 3....2....

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

"nuke 'em to asphalt" comment from JiMGa in 3....2....

Not until they weed each other out some. Even targeting priorities could change depending on how things turn out.

[JediKooter]

I think it will end with some harsh crack downs by the hardliners and then it will go away just like the stuff in Iran.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not until they weed each other out some. Even targeting priorities could change depending on how things turn out.

I just finished "Without Warning" by John Birmingham. That scifi book might be right up your alley. Fun read. Premise is that if most of the US basically disappears, what would happen to the rest of the world?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by lungs

What does the opposition represent in these countries? Are they left-wing? Are they fundamentalist? Or are they a coalition of many views that just want to overthrow the status quo?

I guess I'm not that clear on that part. And judging by the little play it's getting in American news, I guess most Americans don't give a shit. Until the word al-Qaeda gets mentioned.

Listen to NPR they have been talking about it quite a bit. Mainstream media is shit. IMO.

[lungs]

Yeah, I was mainly talking about Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc...

I use BBC news to get an idea what's going on elsewhere.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Be nice if it were to happen in Iran. Maybe they could get rid of the name too & go back to being Persia. Persia > Iran. But Mesopotamia > Iraq & we haven't seen that yet.

[Passacaglia]

Wouldn't Babylon be a more appropriate name, instead of Mesopotamia?

[Butter]

El Baradei apparently under arrest now, and the government has shut down the internet.

I'd like to know how you shut down the internet to everybody, seems a nifty trick.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

El Baradei apparently under arrest now, and the government has shut down the internet.

I'd like to know how you shut down the internet to everybody, seems a nifty trick.

Apparently just about all Internet traffic in Egypt goes through four companies, and the government has the ability to go on those four networks and shut them down.

Yay freedom.

[whomario]

mobile phone companies have been forced to shut down as well

ElBaradei not arrested per se yet but forced to stay in a confined area of the city ...

Police got the green light to open fire on demonstrants ... This is all messed up ...

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yay freedom.

Internet 'kill switch' bill will return | Privacy Inc. - CNET News

[whomario]

Police forces in Alexandria now aparently stopped fighting the demonstrators, good news. Although it´s highly doubtfull this will happen in Cairo as well ...

Now the military is getting involved it seems, although as of now it seems that they are actually welcomed by the protestors and aren´t fighting them.

Government just announced a curfew from 6pm to 7am local time in Cairo, Alexandria and Suez ...

Hope the muslim brotherhood isn´t able to hijack theese protests and come out on top of it ...

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

[JPhillips]

Al-Jazeera English live feed

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[JAG]

They've got the Autocratic Regime Crackdown Playbook and they're running it step by step.

[JPhillips]

Amazing shots of protesters trying to tip a troop carrier into the Nile.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Mubarak has asked the army to take charge of security along with the police.

Protests in Egypt - live updates | News | guardian.co.uk

[whomario]

Curfew officially in effect, protests are still going strong though.

I allways get a very strange feeling when i see theese sort of video, burning cars in the dark and all, very frightening ...

Now the headquarters of the president´s party are burning, wow ... I´m afraid this will get totally out of hand during the night

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I guess I always thought Egypt was a more open country when compared to other Muslim countries in regards to personal liberties. Apparently that's not the case.

[whomario]

Sincerely hope the military follows in the footstep of the tunisian military and protects the people and does not support the president nor stage a coup of themselves (that is deemed unlikely anyway). There´s actually been news from aljazeera and others that the military and the police have clashed allready.

Also, people on the streets are clearly embracing the military presence and even for the most hard-nosed solider/comander that ought to mean sth i am hoping. The fact that 3 hours after curfew there hasn´t been any actions taken really to seriously clear the streets makes me cautiously optimistic...

[mckerney]

[DaddyTorgo]

I fear this is going to end up just like Iran. A lot of noise and no meaningful change.

[Neon_Chaos]

It will all depend on the military. If they stick with the President, this revolt will go nowhere.

[Neon_Chaos]

Also, the stakes are high for the US government. Egypt is one of its closest allies in the middle east. A regime change brings a lot of unknowns into play.

[whomario]

That bag of shit sure is not unsure of himself, i am afraid there´s no way in hell he´s stepping down quietly after hearing that speech just now. That guy is cold blooded ...
One sure can see why he waited so long, that speech has been done and redone dozens of times behind closed doors...

Does he really think anybody that protested is going to be calmed by him anouncing a new government ?

Also, from what i´ve heard there were multiple ministers that actually were popular within the public and did good work with reforms ...

[Flasch186]

I think I remember someone predicting a revolution and toppling of the regime in Iran....

Jus' Sayin Egypt's neighbor isn't Egypt.... although to see a wave of democracy sweep across Africa would be nice

[jeff061]

Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising - Telegraph

Just an interesting counter to the common "America doesn't want this" view point.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Egypt's neighbor isn't Egypt

[stevew]

They gotta get this shit in Tunesia settled so they can make Star Wars 7-9

[stevew]

dola-
I really don't need any more gas price increases.

[JPhillips]

I have a really bad feeling that Egypt is going to get very violent. Shutting down Al Jazeera and bringing in columns of tanks are very bad omens.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I have a really bad feeling that Egypt is going to get very violent. Shutting down Al Jazeera and bringing in columns of tanks are very bad omens.

the egyptian army released a statement today that the issues of the protestors are legitimate and that they would not use force against them which is at least some good news.

"The presence of the army in the streets is for your sake and to ensure your safety and wellbeing. The armed forces will not resort to use of force against our great people," the army statement said.
"Your armed forces, who are aware of the legitimacy of your demands and are keen to assume their responsibility in protecting the nation and the citizens, affirms that freedom of expression through peaceful means is guaranteed to everybody."

still no internet, the piece of shit also suspended all train travel today ...

[whomario]

absolutely amazing what has happened today, don´t you think ? Didn´t believe it would develop that way, glad to see it has gotten more peaceful rather than more chaotic.
Hope they somehow carry this over to a time where Mubarak is gone and not struggle as much as some fear will happen.

Find it great that all organised groups work together (like those flyers handed out with all groups adressing the people) yet it still not being orchestrated or misused for an agenda (well, other than wanting mubarak gone ), little stories like people share food and drink, doing their own security checks. Heck, even organising a soccer tournament on Tahrir square.

[molson]

Originally Posted by whomario

absolutely amazing what has happened today, don´t you think ? Didn´t believe it would develop that way, glad to see it has gotten more peaceful rather than more chaotic.
Hope they somehow carry this over to a time where Mubarak is gone and not struggle as much as some fear will happen.

Find it great that all organised groups work together (like those flyers handed out with all groups adressing the people) yet it still not being orchestrated or misused for an agenda (well, other than wanting mubarak gone ), little stories like people share food and drink, doing their own security checks. Heck, even organising a soccer tournament on Tahrir square.

So what's the status of your trip?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I sure hope whatever eventually replaces Mubarak turns as well as most people seem to be expecting.

That just seems awfully naive to me.

[ISiddiqui]

Glad to see events in Egypt unfolding the way they have. The protests have been peaceful and pulling from all walks of life.

It isn't about whatever comes about being all unicorns and rainbows, but, based on Egyptian society, I'd imagine just about any leadership would be better than Mubarak.

[JediKooter]

They should bring back the Pharaoh system.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

but, based on Egyptian society, I'd imagine just about any leadership would be better than Mubarak.

...Two effigies of Mubarak dangled from traffic lights. On their chests was written: "We want to put the murderous president on trial." Their faces were scrawled with the Star of David, an allusion to many protesters' feeling that Mubarak is a friend of Israel

Yeah, about that imagination of yours ...

[whomario]

Originally Posted by molson

So what's the status of your trip?

long cancelled (as are all trips universally, no one flying to egypt anymore from germany). Actually like it better that way, rather go next year and actually enjoy my stay and get to see everything there is.


Of course it is naive the way the people there aproach this , but what do you expect ? Maybe it´s stupid not to accept the compromises offered to them now, but it´s consequent.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

...Two effigies of Mubarak dangled from traffic lights. On their chests was written: "We want to put the murderous president on trial." Their faces were scrawled with the Star of David, an allusion to many protesters' feeling that Mubarak is a friend of Israel

Yeah, about that imagination of yours ...

you realize that this is by all accounts a very, very small minority ? All reports are stressing how little political or religious hardline-gestures are seen on the streets.
99% of this is absolutely unrelated to anything in that regard.

[ISiddiqui]

Two effigies = the entire society. I see.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Their faces were scrawled with the Star of David, an allusion to many protesters' feeling that Mubarak is a friend of Israel[/i]

Interesting, so maybe they want a president that will go back to invading Israel every 10 years and losing land every time.

[ISiddiqui]

Regardless, a new government may be colder towards Israel, but I doubt they are going to be starting any wars anytime soon. I don't see that as a negative, mind.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Interesting, so maybe they want a president that will go back to invading Israel every 10 years and losing land every time.

Granted. Maybe it's really just a ploy funded by the mapmaking industry to jumpstart sales of new maps

[JonInMiddleGA]

[quote=whomario;2417983]l

All reports are stressing how little political or religious hardline-gestures are seen on the streets.

The key there is "seen on the streets". These particular masses don't lack for some philosophy behind their actions any more than any other gathering. After the generic feel good of "we want things to change" ends, then the real business of governing begins. Surely no one believes that the campaign for (future) power isn't taking place in more discreet locations simultaneously with the masses gathering in the streets.

[whomario]

His speech-writers definitely earned their paychecks ... But did i imagine it or did he actually promise to nullify the articles 76, 77 which were among the main goals for the political parties among the protestors ?

Guess that 2 weeks ago he would have had a chance with that.