Confessions of a former NFL Agent

DeToxRox · 10-12-2010, 01:04 PM

Confessions of former NFL agent Josh Luchs - SI.com - Magazine

Just a sample part relevant to current issues:

Quote:

Gary used his contacts in the coaching community to help him get players. This has recently come into public view, as the NCAA and the state of North Carolina are investigating the Tar Heels football program and whether John Blake, a Carolina assistant coach since 2007, steered players to Gary and received money from him. It's no secret in the agent business that some college coaches steer players to certain agents. I laughed when I heard Gary deny in the media that John ever worked with Pro Tect.

When I was with Gary, John worked hand in hand with us, and Gary called him his "partner." John was the defensive line coach of the Dallas Cowboys when they won Super Bowls XXVIII and XXX, and the head coach at Oklahoma from '96 through '98. He was one of the best recruiters I'd ever seen. He was just electric, and I leveraged him to get clients whenever I could. In '02 two of the biggest clients we got were due, in large part, to John. He went with Gary and me to meet with Fresno State defensive lineman Alan Harper, and Gary and I had John work out defensive end Kenyon Coleman from UCLA before his senior year. That was an NCAA violation, but it wasn't like paying a kid. It was helping Kenyon become a better player.

Another part I chuckled at:

Quote:

If you were a good player at UCLA, I made a run at you. I tried to get can't-miss NFL left tackle prospect Jonathan Ogden as a client, but he wouldn't take my money. He did, however, go with me to a Janet Jackson concert. My girlfriend got two tickets, and I told her, "Sorry, I need those tickets for J.O. He's a big Janet Jackson fan." Instead of going to the concert with my girlfriend, I went with a 6'9" guy who weighed more than 300 pounds and who screamed "Janet!" the whole night like a teenage girl.

Ksyrup · 10-12-2010, 01:52 PM

That was a fascinating read.

When I went to law school at FSU, I had naive notions of trying to get into sports/entertainment law. But those notions quickly went away when the reality of the job description became clear.

MrBug708 · 10-12-2010, 01:52 PM

Seems like he recruited the whole west coast

molson · 10-12-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

That was a fascinating read.

When I went to law school at FSU, I had naive notions of trying to get into sports/entertainment law. But those notions quickly went away when the reality of the job description became clear.

I think it would be a step below ambulance chaser. 1 out of 10,000 make millions, the rest are pretty much just scum.

dacman · 10-12-2010, 01:55 PM

Very interesting read and it confirms everything I thought and feared about how dirty the agent game has become.

jbergey22 · 10-12-2010, 01:58 PM

Very interesting. Thanks for the link.

Pyser · 10-12-2010, 02:03 PM

great read

love that he blows up mel kiper

DeToxRox · 10-12-2010, 02:57 PM

Some fallout has begun as Ohio State compliance is looking into the Santonio Holmes allegations.

SteveMax58 · 10-12-2010, 03:13 PM

great read...thanks.

johnnyshaka · 10-12-2010, 03:38 PM

I'm sure Leaf could use that 10K he doesn't remember giving Josh. What a douche.

Ksyrup · 10-12-2010, 03:49 PM

I loved that part of the follow-up - Leaf recalling this dude as "someone with aspirations" of being an agent. By 1996, hadn't this guy been an agent for 6 years?! Ha!

molson · 10-12-2010, 03:50 PM

Dana Stubblefield has an interesting morality specturm. He REFUSES to take money from an agent, but has no problem with performance-enhancing drugs and lying to federal investigators.

Ksyrup · 10-12-2010, 03:53 PM

He refused to take money from THIS agent. That's about the extent of what we know.

molson · 10-12-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

He refused to take money from THIS agent. That's about the extent of what we know.

That's true, he might just not have any room in his apartment for more cash.

dawgfan · 10-12-2010, 04:16 PM

So, how does this article change anyone's perceptions of the penalties USC got from the NCAA over Reggie Bush?

MacroGuru · 10-12-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

So, how does this article change anyone's perceptions of the penalties USC got from the NCAA over Reggie Bush?

To me, not that much....I think it boils down to we all know it is happening...but the whistle is now starting to be blown on programs and they are going to get it pretty hard...Really, I am waiting to see what comes out of Boise State...I mean my hell, what are they doing to get the talent to that shit hole...

Crapshoot · 10-12-2010, 04:34 PM

All it proves is that college athletes should be able to benefit from their labor, just like all the hangers-ons do from them (coaches, staffers, universities), etc etc.

Crapshoot · 10-12-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Seems like he recruited the whole west coast

Honest question- do you feel any remorse for your constant ragging on USC's payments and Bush now? Seems like there is something that is going on all the damn time at all the schools - no one less guilty than the other.

molson · 10-12-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Really, I am waiting to see what comes out of Boise State...I mean my hell, what are they doing to get the talent to that shit hole...

Hey, we have some of the best indy drive-up burger joints in the country!!!

SirFozzie · 10-12-2010, 04:41 PM

Doesn't change my thoughts on USC. NCAA was looking for a high profile target in a (utterly futile) attempt to show its member schools "Yo, you really have to follow the rules.."

These coaches are not babysiiters, or substitute parents... to adequately enforce the NCAA's provisions, you'd need to give every player their own hall monitor, with the ability to selectively tell folks "No, you can't see them"

JonInMiddleGA · 10-12-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

you'd need to give every player their own hall monitor, with the ability to selectively tell folks "No, you can't see them"

Which is why I'd like to see athletics-only dorms returned to the options schools have.

Swaggs · 10-12-2010, 04:51 PM

Good read.

Pretty cool that he named names (and SI actually followed up with them and few of them disputed his charges). I've always thought that there could be an enjoyable text sim made about sports (or entertainment) agents.

SirFozzie · 10-12-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which is why I'd like to see athletics-only dorms returned to the options schools have.

Really wouldn't help. The hall monitor would have to follow them around 24/7.

JonInMiddleGA · 10-12-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Really wouldn't help. The hall monitor would have to follow them around 24/7.

Ask UGA how much of a difference it makes. It at least limits access as well as providing additional peer pressure to avoid screwing up.

Izulde · 10-12-2010, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Good read.

Pretty cool that he named names (and SI actually followed up with them and few of them disputed his charges). I've always thought that there could be an enjoyable text sim made about sports (or entertainment) agents.

There was one made years ago. What They Didn't Teach You At Harvard Business School or something like that.

It was very shallow and linear, though.

MrBug708 · 10-12-2010, 05:40 PM

"Kiper's ratings on Oct. 21st of future Wichard clients w/ actual draft spot in parenthesis: Clausen - 12th (48), T.Mays - 4th (49)"

"More Kiper ratings of Wichard clients: Benn: 18-20th (in Dec. 2009) (39), Everson Griffen: 11th (100)"

MrBug708 · 10-12-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Honest question- do you feel any remorse for your constant ragging on USC's payments and Bush now? Seems like there is something that is going on all the damn time at all the schools - no one less guilty than the other.

No, why would it?

MacroGuru · 10-12-2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Hey, we have some of the best indy drive-up burger joints in the country!!!

Hey, I have been to Boise..You must hide them real good

I jest, Peterson has done a great job up there...

stevew · 10-12-2010, 06:04 PM

Confirms my suspicions that Santonio Holmes was totally miscast as a member of the Steelers. I guess we get one WR of suspect character every 5 years(see Plax)

CU Tiger · 10-12-2010, 07:21 PM

Basically nothing here surprises me.
Nor does this do anything to change my opinion of thee Bush deal. The NCAA knows the story, they turn a half blind eye to $10,000/year...when you cross the 7 figure threshold, and refuse to self assess...well you get what you deserve.

Logan · 10-12-2010, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

"Kiper's ratings on Oct. 21st of future Wichard clients w/ actual draft spot in parenthesis: Clausen - 12th (48), T.Mays - 4th (49)"

"More Kiper ratings of Wichard clients: Benn: 18-20th (in Dec. 2009) (39), Everson Griffen: 11th (100)"

You'd have to compare that to what other "experts" were projecting for that to be useful in any way. Clausen was always projected high by everyone up until he actually started slipping, and Mays was considered a lock to be top 10 in the preceding draft if he came out. It wasn't until his coverage skills were exposed throughout the year that prompted his fall. Benn was highly ranked all over as well, and I don't remember what happened with Griffen (outside of him being a 5* recruit).

Sun Tzu · 10-12-2010, 10:38 PM

Wait wait wait...college players take money from agents? WHEN DID THIS START HAPPENING?

BishopMVP · 10-12-2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

So, how does this article change anyone's perceptions of the penalties USC got from the NCAA over Reggie Bush?

No. I think there's always a bit of "there but for the grace of god go I", but my school's moment of national prominence has been tarred and feathered by everyone, so I enjoy it whenever a BCS school gets tagged. I also think that USC had a level of brazenness and arrogance (see: Mike Garrett's comments) that makes it hard to feel sympathetic to them.

MrBug708 · 10-13-2010, 10:13 AM

ESPN looking into Mel Kiper's relationship with Gary Wichard | ProFootballTalk.com

Wonder if "Viper" is going to lose his cushy job with ESPN

I. J. Reilly · 10-13-2010, 11:10 AM

Kiper was on Mike & Mike this morning, basically saying that he had to have agents as friends to gain access to athletes so he can do his job. He never explained why he needs access to grade players. Every story like this just reinforces the fact that pro sports are manned exlusively by jock-sniffers and ambulance chasers.

Easy Mac · 10-13-2010, 11:12 AM

What I never understood is, how do guys have agents literally the second they declare pro, even if it's like immediately after their last game. Surely they don't just meet them on the spot and select based on who's first.

cuervo72 · 10-13-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

Kiper was on Mike & Mike this morning, basically saying that he had to have agents as friends to gain access to athletes so he can do his job. He never explained why he needs access to grade players. Every story like this just reinforces the fact that pro sports are manned exlusively by jock-sniffers and ambulance chasers.

Yeah, Feinstein thinks that's bunk: Feinstein On The Brink

Quote:

Kiper’s defense is that being friends with agents helps him get to know players. Here’s my question, why does someone who is supposed to be analyzing players need to know them? And, if Kiper wants to taIk to a player for some reason, you’re telling me they won’t talk to him? They all think he’s a star, a very important guy. That’s a complete copout. He doesn’t NEED agents to do his job.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 10-13-2010, 11:32 AM

Wouldn't be surprised in the least, whether there's anything to this or not, if ESPN uses this to push Kiper out in favor of the surely cheaper and less egotistic McShay.

Logan · 10-13-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

Kiper was on Mike & Mike this morning, basically saying that he had to have agents as friends to gain access to athletes so he can do his job. He never explained why he needs access to grade players.

To evaluate the "intangibles", obviously...

Dr. Sak · 10-13-2010, 12:16 PM

Luchs was on Dan Patrick this morning and Patrick tripped him up with a few of his questions. I read the article before hearing the interview and preinterview I thought Luchs did all this for the right reasons. Now after hearing the interview he sounded more like Jose Canseco. A guy who got burnt wanting to get back at the sport.

SackAttack · 10-13-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Luchs was on Dan Patrick this morning and Patrick tripped him up with a few of his questions. I read the article before hearing the interview and preinterview I thought Luchs did all this for the right reasons. Now after hearing the interview he sounded more like Jose Canseco. A guy who got burnt wanting to get back at the sport.

I got that feeling a little bit listening to him on "All Night" with Jason Smith last night.

He says it's about clearing his name for when his children start Googling him, but that's not at all how he comes across when he's actually talking about it.

albionmoonlight · 10-13-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

That was a fascinating read.

When I went to law school at FSU, I had naive notions of trying to get into sports/entertainment law. But those notions quickly went away when the reality of the job description became clear.

The way that it was explained to me is that it is impossible to do what an agent needs to do these days while staying in compliance with the ethical canons.

Ksyrup · 10-13-2010, 01:47 PM

Yeah, I figured that out pretty quickly.

DaddyTorgo · 10-13-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Luchs was on Dan Patrick this morning and Patrick tripped him up with a few of his questions. I read the article before hearing the interview and preinterview I thought Luchs did all this for the right reasons. Now after hearing the interview he sounded more like Jose Canseco. A guy who got burnt wanting to get back at the sport.

Which is fine by me.

RedKingGold · 10-13-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Which is fine by me.

Same, actually. I don't really care what his motivations were so long as the information provided is accurate.

MrBug708 · 10-13-2010, 02:19 PM

It probably is. I mean, who gives money to Ryan Fien?

Desnudo · 10-13-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Luchs was on Dan Patrick this morning and Patrick tripped him up with a few of his questions. I read the article before hearing the interview and preinterview I thought Luchs did all this for the right reasons. Now after hearing the interview he sounded more like Jose Canseco. A guy who got burnt wanting to get back at the sport.

Whatever the reasons he's got a lot of confirming statements, unlike Jose.

molson · 10-13-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

It probably is. I mean, who gives money to Ryan Fien?

The whole business doesn't make much sense to me. It seems any athlete worth anything (and quite a few that aren't) get money from many different agents, but they usually just sign with some big firm.

Is it really more just a loan sharking thing? Give these kids money, and then blackmail them for it later (plus interest). Threaten to go forward with all the fun times you guys had together back in school?

DanGarion · 10-13-2010, 07:53 PM

This is mostly funny due to the UCLA fans that are going have to shut their mouths when they speak of USCs allegations...

SteveMax58 · 10-13-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

The whole business doesn't make much sense to me. It seems any athlete worth anything (and quite a few that aren't) get money from many different agents, but they usually just sign with some big firm.

Is it really more just a loan sharking thing? Give these kids money, and then blackmail them for it later (plus interest). Threaten to go forward with all the fun times you guys had together back in school?

Yeah, I was trying to piece together a business model out of it myself while reading the article. I couldn't get past the idea that it takes a LOT of players & upfront capital to hopefully strike it rich. But when you consider the cap he mentions (5% I believe)...it really doesn't sound very lucrative unless you have Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, etc. Especially when you consider that the 5% then has to pay expenses, other people, players who will amount to nothing, etc.

I'm sure there is a business model there...it just seems to escape me how paying players works unless you are a better scout of NFL talent than NFL GMs & Coaches.

10-12-2010, 01:52 PM	#2
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	That was a fascinating read. When I went to law school at FSU, I had naive notions of trying to get into sports/entertainment law. But those notions quickly went away when the reality of the job description became clear. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

10-12-2010, 01:55 PM	#5
dacman College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: speak to the trout	Very interesting read and it confirms everything I thought and feared about how dirty the agent game has become. __________________ No signatures allowed.

10-12-2010, 03:49 PM	#11
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I loved that part of the follow-up - Leaf recalling this dude as "someone with aspirations" of being an agent. By 1996, hadn't this guy been an agent for 6 years?! Ha! __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

10-12-2010, 03:53 PM	#13
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	He refused to take money from THIS agent. That's about the extent of what we know. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

10-12-2010, 04:41 PM	#20
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Doesn't change my thoughts on USC. NCAA was looking for a high profile target in a (utterly futile) attempt to show its member schools "Yo, you really have to follow the rules.." These coaches are not babysiiters, or substitute parents... to adequately enforce the NCAA's provisions, you'd need to give every player their own hall monitor, with the ability to selectively tell folks "No, you can't see them" __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

10-12-2010, 01:52 PM	#3
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Seems like he recruited the whole west coast

10-12-2010, 01:58 PM	#6
jbergey22 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota	Very interesting. Thanks for the link.

10-12-2010, 02:03 PM	#7
Pyser Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Los Angeles	great read love that he blows up mel kiper

10-12-2010, 02:57 PM	#8
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Some fallout has begun as Ohio State compliance is looking into the Santonio Holmes allegations.

10-12-2010, 03:13 PM	#9
SteveMax58 College Starter Join Date: Dec 2006	great read...thanks.

10-12-2010, 03:38 PM	#10
johnnyshaka College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Edmonton, AB	I'm sure Leaf could use that 10K he doesn't remember giving Josh. What a douche.

10-12-2010, 03:50 PM	#12
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Dana Stubblefield has an interesting morality specturm. He REFUSES to take money from an agent, but has no problem with performance-enhancing drugs and lying to federal investigators.

10-12-2010, 04:16 PM	#15
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	So, how does this article change anyone's perceptions of the penalties USC got from the NCAA over Reggie Bush?

10-12-2010, 04:34 PM	#17
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	All it proves is that college athletes should be able to benefit from their labor, just like all the hangers-ons do from them (coaches, staffers, universities), etc etc.

10-12-2010, 04:51 PM	#22
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Good read. Pretty cool that he named names (and SI actually followed up with them and few of them disputed his charges). I've always thought that there could be an enjoyable text sim made about sports (or entertainment) agents. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

10-12-2010, 05:40 PM	#26
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	"Kiper's ratings on Oct. 21st of future Wichard clients w/ actual draft spot in parenthesis: Clausen - 12th (48), T.Mays - 4th (49)" "More Kiper ratings of Wichard clients: Benn: 18-20th (in Dec. 2009) (39), Everson Griffen: 11th (100)"

10-12-2010, 06:04 PM	#29
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Confirms my suspicions that Santonio Holmes was totally miscast as a member of the Steelers. I guess we get one WR of suspect character every 5 years(see Plax)

10-12-2010, 07:21 PM	#30
CU Tiger Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Backwoods, SC	Basically nothing here surprises me. Nor does this do anything to change my opinion of thee Bush deal. The NCAA knows the story, they turn a half blind eye to $10,000/year...when you cross the 7 figure threshold, and refuse to self assess...well you get what you deserve.

10-12-2010, 10:38 PM	#32
Sun Tzu Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In the thick of it.	Wait wait wait...college players take money from agents? WHEN DID THIS START HAPPENING? __________________ I'm still here. Don't touch my fucking bacon.

10-13-2010, 10:13 AM	#34
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	ESPN looking into Mel Kiper's relationship with Gary Wichard \| ProFootballTalk.com Wonder if "Viper" is going to lose his cushy job with ESPN

10-13-2010, 11:10 AM	#35
I. J. Reilly College Prospect Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: An Oregonian deep in the heart of Texas.	Kiper was on Mike & Mike this morning, basically saying that he had to have agents as friends to gain access to athletes so he can do his job. He never explained why he needs access to grade players. Every story like this just reinforces the fact that pro sports are manned exlusively by jock-sniffers and ambulance chasers.

10-13-2010, 11:12 AM	#36
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	What I never understood is, how do guys have agents literally the second they declare pro, even if it's like immediately after their last game. Surely they don't just meet them on the spot and select based on who's first.

10-13-2010, 11:32 AM	#38
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	Wouldn't be surprised in the least, whether there's anything to this or not, if ESPN uses this to push Kiper out in favor of the surely cheaper and less egotistic McShay. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

10-13-2010, 12:16 PM	#40
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	Luchs was on Dan Patrick this morning and Patrick tripped him up with a few of his questions. I read the article before hearing the interview and preinterview I thought Luchs did all this for the right reasons. Now after hearing the interview he sounded more like Jose Canseco. A guy who got burnt wanting to get back at the sport.

10-13-2010, 01:47 PM	#43
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	Yeah, I figured that out pretty quickly. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

10-13-2010, 02:19 PM	#46
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	It probably is. I mean, who gives money to Ryan Fien?

10-13-2010, 07:53 PM	#49
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	This is mostly funny due to the UCLA fans that are going have to shut their mouths when they speak of USCs allegations... __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO!

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