Alright boyz, here we go!!! Draft Day Sports: Pro Basketball 2 First Impressions

[Sweed]

With virtually no replies since Gary posted in this thread Draft Day Sports: Pro Basketball 2 - Front Office Football Central 3 hours ago I thought I'd bring this information front and center.

We can either leave this thread stand or maybe better a mod could delete it and change the title of Gary's thread to let everyone know the demo has been released.

Almost forgot.. a link to the demo at wolverine

DDS:PB2 Demo NOW AVAILABLE! - Wolverine Studios

[BYU 14]

Downloaded it, will play around with lt later after the afternoon football games are over.

[DaddyTorgo]

will DL and check it out after I mess with this WWI game demo this afternoon

[DaddyTorgo]

Me likey. I wish there was a way to see more statistics on a guy during the draft though. Before the workouts on that screen you can see their 3-point % and FG % and everything else, but then once in the war room you can't see all that info. It sure would be nice...

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

will DL and check it out after I mess with this WWI game demo this afternoon

Not to thread jack, but what do you think of WW1?

[DaddyTorgo]

It's interesting...seems like there's a lot to it though.

I need to give it some more time to get a sense of how to do the battles and all.

I don't like it as much as I like ACW I don't think...but we'll see after I give it more time.

[Icy]

Hope you guys like the interface

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Icy

Hope you guys like the interface

it's lovely.

think i'm going to go off and see "The Town" and play it more later

[Big Fo]

Is there any way I can maximize the program window or drag it so I can see everything at once without having to use scroll bars? So far it seems like I am stuck seeing about 80% of the info both horizontally and vertically.

And the entry fields/checkmarks seem to be misaligned. Maybe something got messed up when I installed the demo.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Is there any way I can maximize the program window or drag it so I can see everything at once without having to use scroll bars? So far it seems like I am stuck seeing about 80% of the info both horizontally and vertically.

And the entry fields/checkmarks seem to be misaligned. Maybe something got messed up when I installed the demo.

The game uses a fixed size of 1024x768 and the standard 96dpi font size. A different dpi settings will make things to look misplaced, etc.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Icy

The game uses a fixed size of 1024x768 and the standard 96dpi font size. A different dpi settings will make things to look misplaced, etc.

Ah. I use a bigger font size since I have a large monitor and have it set back pretty far on my desk. I switched my font settings and now I don't have those problems anymore. Inconvenient but it works I guess.

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by Galaril

two things one the screen is stuck for me in a minimized view so it only covers like half of mu laptop screen which is 18 inch. Also, I do not see a way to proceed to the season to start simming games in the regular season after doing the rookie class for 2011. There is no clear indication where to go what to do.

On the top toolbar should be a basketball icon. Click it.

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Ah. I use a bigger font size since I have a large monitor and have it set back pretty far on my desk. I switched my font settings and now I don't have those problems anymore. Inconvenient but it works I guess.

We are looking at this now, but it involves alot of rewrite so maybe in DDS:Pro Football.

[Bad-example]

First impressions...cluttered interface hurts my face...not very intuitive...lack of full screen is a biggie for me...no tool tips for icons at bottom...unsure I will spend more time on it or not.

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

First impressions...cluttered interface hurts my face...not very intuitive...lack of full screen is a biggie for me...no tool tips for icons at bottom...unsure I will spend more time on it or not.

If you click Help from within the game or open the game folder you will find a manual that explains everything.

I hate to see you dismiss a game so quickly. I think the icons at the bottom are self-explanatory especially if you click them.

[Big Fo]

Is there a way to sort free agents by overall rating and potential rating?

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Yup did that and nothing happens it is greyed out color.

What date are you on?

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I agree. I would not know this wasn't the demo from DDSPB 1 to be honest. The demo at least is underwhelmin. I played the heck out of DDSPB and the DDSCB and still I have to look around to figure what I got to do next.

I disagree with the underwhelming. Yes the game has essentially the same graphic look (Many enhancements also included, per user request) but the real good stuff is under the hood. I point you to Gary's long DDSPB 2 primer for examples.

[Comey]

I played it a bit. It's really tough to get into the pro game for me. I played the crap out of the college game. The pro game, like the NBA, is a lot tougher to get immersed in to me.

I'll keep trying though.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I agree. I would not know this wasn't the demo from DDSPB 1 to be honest. The demo at least is underwhelmin. I played the heck out of DDSPB and the DDSCB and still I have to look around to figure what I got to do next.

Seriously? Yeah the game looks the same but do you expect a graphical rewrite of the UI design every time?

Read this - MUST READ - DDS:PB2 Primer - Wolverine Studios - it's four pages worth of document telling you why the game is lightyears beyond DDSPB1

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

First impressions...cluttered interface hurts my face...not very intuitive...lack of full screen is a biggie for me...no tool tips for icons at bottom...unsure I will spend more time on it or not.

What exactly do you consider cluttered and how does it "hurt your face"?

As for the bottom icons...an icon of a phone seemed pretty intuitive to me - same with the email icon. I can add tooltips easy enough but I just figured those things were self-explanatory. There are, you will notice, tool tips for the top icons.

[Gary Gorski]

And I posted this to a user on my forum so I figure I should post it here

Yes, the UI looks the same - it was very good so why redesign it? Instead the time was spent on things like oh I don't know...playable foreign leagues, expansion, restricted free agency, expanded contract options, player/media interaction, improved AI decision making, the ability to send draft picks overseas and a host of other things. In other words I made real improvements to the game instead of slapping a new coat of paint on it and a new roster file like most companies do with their sports games.

To be honest I'm a little frustrated by some of the comments on day one of a demo - all anyone says is they want depth and immersion and realism...so I go all out in providing NEW features and enhancements in those areas and what's the comment? Oh it looks the same so I don't think I will spend much more time with it. Like I said, if all it takes is a new coat of paint and a new roster file I'll be happy to oblige in the future - it would save me alot of time actually doing things to improve the game.

I would hope that if you are going to bother to take the time to try the demo that you actually take the time to look at the nuances and details...the things that make the game special and worth playing and not just "oh it looks the same as before"

[Comey]

Since this thread needs a positive, I will add that I like the addition of the separate text box for the in-game. Good decision with that.

[DaddyTorgo]

FWIW I think it was only one person complaining about the looks.

I haven't even read your 4 page primer, and I just spent a few minutes with the demo before rushing out to a movie (bout to sit down and give it a good run), but I'm liking what I see so far.

Don't get overly frustrated by one or two people.

Looking forward to seeing how personalities start to factor into things.

[DaddyTorgo]

I like the stats and the info on the home screen

[Bad-example]

FWIW, I haven't cared for the UI in any of the demos I have tried from this company. I don't find them to be intuitive at all. As I mentioned above, the lack of full screen is a biggie for me. Why force the user to play through a little window and waste the rest of the screen?

I uninstalled this one pretty quickly. Just not my cup of tea.

[Recoil]

I'm not a big fan of professional basketball, but I'll give this a try just because DDS:CB is one of my favorite sports sim.

[DaddyTorgo]

I can't move my guys around on the depth chart...no amount of clicking on guys and then places in the depth chart moves my #8 guy up to #6

*confusion* sure i'm just doing something dumb. bet i figure it out right after i post this.

Aaaah. Yep - it's cuz I hadn't fired Doc Rivers yet.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

FWIW, I haven't cared for the UI in any of the demos I have tried from this company. I don't find them to be intuitive at all. As I mentioned above, the lack of full screen is a biggie for me. Why force the user to play through a little window and waste the rest of the screen?

I uninstalled this one pretty quickly. Just not my cup of tea.

i get much more use out of games where i don't have to play it fullscreen...i need to multitask while i play

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

FWIW, I haven't cared for the UI in any of the demos I have tried from this company. I don't find them to be intuitive at all. As I mentioned above, the lack of full screen is a biggie for me. Why force the user to play through a little window and waste the rest of the screen?

I uninstalled this one pretty quickly. Just not my cup of tea.

What do you consider intuitive?

Why force the vast majority to play on anything outside 1024x768?
I expect you never did reach the on-court action?

[DaddyTorgo]

So I just got an email about an argument between two of my players and it says "action required" and I can't delete it, but what's the action required? There's no selectable buttons there that I can see, and i tried calling both the players and talking to them...

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

FWIW, I haven't cared for the UI in any of the demos I have tried from this company. I don't find them to be intuitive at all. As I mentioned above, the lack of full screen is a biggie for me. Why force the user to play through a little window and waste the rest of the screen?

I uninstalled this one pretty quickly. Just not my cup of tea.

I'm the exact opposite. If a text sim were to force me to use fullscreen I'd be far less likely to play it. I don't see the point of a text sim using the entire screen.

The only complaint I would have so far is I kind of feel in the dark during free agency. I could very well be missing it, but I don't see any feedback as to why an offer isn't accepted.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I'm the exact opposite. If a text sim were to force me to use fullscreen I'd be far less likely to play it. I don't see the point of a text sim using the entire screen.

The only complaint I would have so far is I kind of feel in the dark during free agency. I could very well be missing it, but I don't see any feedback as to why an offer isn't accepted.

there isn't any - i agree that kind of feedback might be nice, but given the number of FA's it also might be a bit cumbersome to display i suppose?

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I'm the exact opposite. If a text sim were to force me to use fullscreen I'd be far less likely to play it.

I know there are a lot of people that feel the same as you. But why force the user into a choice? Is it that hard to offer both?

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

FWIW, I haven't cared for the UI in any of the demos I have tried from this company. I don't find them to be intuitive at all. As I mentioned above, the lack of full screen is a biggie for me. Why force the user to play through a little window and waste the rest of the screen?

I uninstalled this one pretty quickly. Just not my cup of tea.

I've asked once so I'll ask again - you keep saying "its not intuitive" - why? If you're a "want to play a spreadsheet guy" that's fine and if you want to not like the game that's fine too but all I ask is that if you're going to throw out an opinion/comment that I'd like you to explain it.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

I know there are a lot of people that feel the same as you. But why force the user into a choice? Is it that hard to offer both?

In this case yes - all of the heavily detailed screens are designed in one size. For the future I'll consider removing some of that detail in order to offer a full screen mode but that kind of thing has to be a design decision from day one.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

So I just got an email about an argument between two of my players and it says "action required" and I can't delete it, but what's the action required? There's no selectable buttons there that I can see, and i tried calling both the players and talking to them...

Yes that's what you can do in that instance - it just sets it as an "action required" email so that it will stop the sim, allow you to see the issue and decide if you want to pursue any action

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Yes that's what you can do in that instance - it just sets it as an "action required" email so that it will stop the sim, allow you to see the issue and decide if you want to pursue any action

gotcha. cool. wanted to be sure i wasn't missing anything, since apparently there was another argument the next day.

guess my undrafted FA PG is going to get his dumb ass cut.

[DaddyTorgo]

do fastbreak-style teams like the Suns run the floor and create odd-numbered situations?

i was never able to get that to really reflect well in the last version...seems like guys were never really able to shake their defenders are get free like that

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I've asked once so I'll ask again - you keep saying "its not intuitive" - why? If you're a "want to play a spreadsheet guy" that's fine and if you want to not like the game that's fine too but all I ask is that if you're going to throw out an opinion/comment that I'd like you to explain it.

I didn't spend a lot of time before uninstalling but most of that time I was dazzled by all the icons and didn't have much of a clue what to do. I didn't get far beyond being confused and gave up. Maybe folding a lot of that busyness into drop down menus would help clean it up some.

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

I didn't spend a lot of time before uninstalling but most of that time I was dazzled by all the icons and didn't have much of a clue what to do. I didn't get far beyond being confused and gave up. Maybe folding a lot of that busyness into drop down menus would help clean it up some.

So the ringing phone (icon flashing) and flashing email button gave you no clue as too how to proceed?
I'm not sure how a bunch of drop downs, that people will complain about, could help the situation.
I get the feeling your root gripe is the no full-screen, which is not easy to implement but is something as I posted earlier we are looking at for DDSPF.

[Big Fo]

I think the conference previews are a nice touch. I'm enjoying this so far, just about to get started with the regular season.

edit to add: Just played my first handful of games with Orlando. Didn't make any trades, resigned J.J. Redick while letting Matt Barnes, Anthony Johnson and the other bench players leave. My rookies are in the D-League and I signed Chris Duhon and Luis Scola to bolster the team. So far Scola has been great, Dwight Howard finally has someone else who will do some work down in the paint. We went into New Jersey and easily beat the media darling Nets (with LeBron, Wade, and DeMarcus Cousins). Duhon just got in a pushing and shoving match with fellow PG Jameer Nelson, I guess part of that might be down to them fighting for minutes.

[whomario]

The foreign leagues don´t seem to be working at all, players from those leagues don´t apear in the drafts and you can´t sign them if they go undrafted (unless i´m missing it)

[lungs]

OK I am a bit of a dumb bell but my window looks all screwed up. I'm sure it's because of my settings but I'm also new to Windows 7 so I'm not sure how I exactly get things the way they're supposed to be.

Any help would be appreciated and I won't bitch about anything else

[CleBrownsfan]

Damn - I'm liking what I'm seeing in the demo. Been playing this morning for about a hour. BUT I can not see myself purchasing this because the lack of filling my 22" screen. I probably sit 3 feet from my monitor and I have to lean close to see what's going on in game. What a shame... maybe next year they will allow for a full screen.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Damn - I'm liking what I'm seeing in the demo. Been playing this morning for about a hour. BUT I can not see myself purchasing this because the lack of filling my 22" screen. I probably sit 3 feet from my monitor and I have to lean close to see what's going on in game. What a shame... maybe next year they will allow for a full screen.

I agree this could be a problem for people with big screens as i use a 24" myself too and 1920x1200 screen resolution for web design, but i guess that if the game was at 1200x960 then those minority with small or those wide with or standard screens would also complain.

The easy workaround is to change your screen resolution when you are going to play the game, it takes 1 minute or less and no reboot is needed if you are on windows XP, vista or 7 (right click on the desktop, click on screen resolution and there change it). The only minor issue is that if you have a desktop full of icons, their order could be messed up if they don't fit in the smaller screen resolution.

Maybe for the future as Tim and Gary said it could be looked at, and either to set the minimum requirements to be 1200x960 and to leave those with small screens without support, or to try a less graphical and more web style design that can be expanded to full screen like what FM or OOTP use, but i know also that a lot of people don't like that kind of designs or find them too simple.

It's so hard to make everybody happy, that is why my vision of the text sim and games developing in general point of view has changed a lot since i joined WS and saw from the inside how ungrateful is to be at the other side, specially in small/indy companies that are more a hobby than a job.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by whomario

The foreign leagues don´t seem to be working at all, players from those leagues don´t apear in the drafts and you can´t sign them if they go undrafted (unless i´m missing it)

Well if they're not appearing in drafts how can they be going undrafted?

The foreign leagues are working - I may need to boost the desire of some players to declare for the draft but the foreign leagues are working.

[Tim Tellean]

Originally Posted by Icy

I agree this could be a problem for people with big screens as i use a 24" myself too and 1920x1200 screen resolution for web design, but i guess that if the game was at 1200x960 then those minority with small or those wide with or standard screens would also complain.

The easy workaround is to change your screen resolution when you are going to play the game, it takes 1 minute or less and no reboot is needed if you are on windows XP, vista or 7 (right click on the desktop, click on screen resolution and there change it). The only minor issue is that if you have a desktop full of icons, their order could be messed up if they don't fit in the smaller screen resolution.

Maybe for the future as Tim and Gary said it could be looked at, and either to set the minimum requirements to be 1200x960 and to leave those with small screens without support, or to try a less graphical and more web style design that can be expanded to full screen like what FM or OOTP use, but i know also that a lot of people don't like that kind of designs or find them too simple.

It's so hard to make everybody happy, that is why my vision of the text sim and games developing in general point of view has changed a lot since i joined WS and saw from the inside how ungrateful is to be at the other side, specially in small/indy companies that are more a hobby than a job.

I want to piggyback on what Ivan said and as I posted previously in this thread, we are looking at this for future titles (DDSPF), but to include it in DDSPB 2 was problematic with the massive code rewrite necessary.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Damn - I'm liking what I'm seeing in the demo. Been playing this morning for about a hour. BUT I can not see myself purchasing this because the lack of filling my 22" screen. I probably sit 3 feet from my monitor and I have to lean close to see what's going on in game. What a shame... maybe next year they will allow for a full screen.

Ok can you explain this to me? OOTP runs in a mode that can either be in the window or fill the full screen, correct? But when you go to full screen doesn't it just basically take up the entire screen with the background? Isn't all the text and data the same size but with just alot more empty space? I guess I just don't see what the difference is other than having your entire screen filled up with a background.

Is there any text sim out there that actually makes the font sizes and icons and graphics larger (eg easier to see without having to lean in) when you go to a full screen?

I suppose I could create a version of the game that essentially forces your screen to change resolution so that it does take up all your screen. I'm not going to make that the norm because I'm sure a great many people don't want that done but I'm willing to look into doing it if that solves people's complaints about not being full screen.

Outside of that full screen to me would have the opportunity to show more data at once but the data shown is still going to be in the same font size and things like that so it would be the same "difficulty" in reading.

I guess I'm just looking for a reason why "full screen" is basically a dealbreaker when the game itself is really good

[CleBrownsfan]

OOTP fills my screen and I do not have to lean close to the screen to see what's going on.

After a long day of work/taking care of kids I want to be able to site back on my couch with my key board & mouse - which makes my monitor nearly 3 feet away from me.