Grade my FF Team

[Flasch186]

PPR league, keeper format:


QB Joe Flacco *
QB Matthew Stafford
QB Mark Sanchez

RB Jamaal Charles *
RB Ahmad Bradshaw *
RB Ricky Williams
RB Donald Brown
RB Thomas Jones
RB Brandon Jackson

WR Andre Johnson*
WR Miles Austin*
WR Mike Sims-Walker
WR Jabbar Gaffney
WR Braylon Edwards

TE Brent Celek
TE Dustin Keller

K Mason Crosby

D New Orleans Saints D & Special Teams

[Comey]

I don't like your running backs, outside of Charles. Bradshaw gets hurt too much. Brown could be a steal, though.

I definitely like the receivers.

[Scoobz0202]

Agreed with pretty much everything Comey said.

Heres me:

Non-PPR, Keeper, Auction-Style draft (FOFC one that was done today)

QB Eli Manning
QB Chad Henne

WR Brandon Marshall
WR Johnny Knox
WR Mike Sims-Walker
WR Mike Williams(TB)

RB Arian Foster
RB Ryan Matthews
RB Felix Jones
RB Bernard Scott
RB Willis McGahee

TE Tony Gonzalez
TE John Carlson

K David Beuhler

D New Orleans

[atatange1]

PPR league, 12th pick in first round.

QB Alex Smith
QB Jason Campell
WR Reggie Wayne
WR Greg Jennings
WR Michael Crabtree
RB Ryan Mathews
RB Jamaal Charles
TE Jermichael Finley
W/R Malcom Floyd
W/R Dez Bryant
W/R Laurent Robinson (was Avery)
Def Miami
K Lindell

Bench:
qb Leinert (Will keep on eye on D. Anderson, too bad Delhomme was just picked up)
rb Justin Forsett
wr Jericho Cotchery
rb Chester Taylor
wr Kevin Walter

[ColtCrazy]

Flash - Not big on your RBs either, but your WRs are very strong. But surely one of those RBs can end up being something for you. If so, nice team.

Scoobz - Very solid team. Not sold on your 2nd WR...outside of Marshall they are all inconsistent. But you have more than enough depth at RB to make up for that.

atatange- Other than QB, it's a decent team. If Matthews is as good as SD thinks, you are in solid shape. If he falters, your lack of QB might hurt you. Wayne and Jennings will keep you competitive if you RBs are average.


Overall, all 3 teams have some potential. Every team has question marks, but each team has some depth to work the trades later in the season.


Here's my team. Keeper league, I had 1st pick.

QB - Peyton Manning/Kevin Kolb
RB - Ray Rice/LeSean McCoy
RB - Shonn Greene/Jahvid Best
WR - Greg Jennings/Hines Ward
WR - Michael Crabtree/Greg Camarillo
TE - Vernon Davis/Jermaine Gresham
K - Akers/Can't remember
D - Jets/Saints

[Comey]

All right, I'll bite:

QB: Aaron Rodgers

RB: LeSean McCoy, Jamaal Charles, Knowshon Moreno, Brian Westbrook, Darren Sproles

WR: Reggie Wayne, Robert Meachem, Mike Wallace, Vincent Jackson, Devin Hester, Mohamed Massaquoi

TE: Jason Witten, Greg Olsen

K: Nate Kaeding

D: Green Bay

[molson]

12-team, PPR (.5 for RB Reception, 1.0 for everyone else's reception), 10-man bench, Start 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, Flex, D/ST, K.

QB: Tony Romo, Kevin Kolb, Donovan McNabb

RB: Ray Rice, Matt Forte, Justin Forsett, Fred Jackson, Marshawn Lynch

WR: Steve Smith (Giants), Pierre Garcon, Steve Breaston, Julian Edelman, Mario Manningham, Roy E. Williams, Brian Hartline.

TE: Dallas Clark, Dustin Keller, Ben Watson

D/ST: Dallas Cowboys

K: Ryan Longwell

In retrospect, I wish I had taken a few more RB projects instead of the WRs. But in this league, with WR receptions counting double RB receptions, guys like Hartline and Manningham were just a lot more interesting than Correll Buckhalter. And I'll probably end up using WR or TE more than RB at the flex position.

Edit: Rating from Danny's link - (thanks!)

Fantasy Football - Your team rated by footballguys.com

That gives me some optimism. 45% chance of making the playoffs with "great" in-season management - (and only 2 of 12 teams make the playoffs in this league.) And from reading that, I think going after multiple WRs in the late rounds was a good idea. Makes sense considering I have to start 3 WRs, and I have Ray Rice anchoring the RB core.

One thing I don't get is why it seems like nobody even considers Brian Hartline a sleeper. Maybe I'm missing something (it was a late round pick anyway, so whatever). But it looks like he's going to start opposite Marshall in Miami. Seems like a great spot to break out from.

[Pumpy Tudors]

What is PPR?

[Lathum]

points per reception

[stevew]

Pick 6 in 12 man no ppr

QB- kolb, stafford, cutler
RB- Turner, McCoy, Spiller, Bell, Moroney
WR- Megatron, Steve Smith(2), mike thomas,
TE tony G, Keller
D-Packers
K-Dawson

[cmp]

Looking for opinions on my team. Non PPR league, auction draft, keeper league, 10 teams.

QB Philip Rivers
QB Ben Roethlisberger
QB Matt Ryan

RB DeAngelo Williams
RB Justin Forsett
RB Ricky Williams
RB LaDainian Tomlinson
RB Fred Jackson
RB Bernard Scott

WR Larry Fitzgerald
WR Reggie Wayne
WR DeSean Jackson
WR Marques Colston
WR Lee Evans
WR Mohamed Massaquoi

TE Jermichael Finley

K Jay Feely

D San Francisco

[Danny]

Fantasy Football -

[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by Danny

Fantasy Football -

Thanks for that link... pretty neat

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Thanks for that link... pretty neat

Yeah, I love that tool. It was wrong about both my teams (loved the team that missed the playoffs, and hated the team that made the finals and lost), but a lot can happen as the season goes on obviously.

[Chubby]

10 team standard ESPN league, auction draft

QB Aaron Rodgers $44
QB Carson Palmer $2
QB Sam Bradford $1

RB Michael Turner $50
RB Jamaal Charles $23
RB Matt Forte $18
RB CJ Spiller $11
RB LaDainian Tomlinson $2

WR Calvin Johnson $27
WR Dez Bryant $6
WR Mike Williams $1
WR Golden Tate $1

TE Visanthe Shiancoe $10

K Ryan Longwell $1

D Ravens $2
D Steelers $1

[DataKing]

Chubby-

Seems to me that WR is the obvious weakness on your team, but that's also typically one of the easiest weaknesses to address during the season. Palmer was a steal at $2, and I like your RB rotation (I assume you're looking at Turner as an every-week starter and then playing the matchup game with either Charles or Forte as your RB2). I like the Shaincoe grab too...we all know how much Favre loves throwing to the TE in the red zone.


Here's mine. TD-heavy 12-team keeper league (keepers are italicized):

QB - Jay Cutler (note: this league does not penalize for INTs )
Reserve - Donovan McNabb

RB1 - Rashard Mendenhall
RB2 - Shonn Greene
Reserves - Jonathan Stewart, Jerome Harrison, Tim Hightower

WR/TE1 - Andre Johnson
WR/TE2 - Larry Fitzgerald
WR/TE3 - Mike Sims-Walker
Reserves - Jason Witten, Lee Evans

PK - Ryan Longwell
Reserve - Lawrence Tynes

Def/ST - Minnesota Vikings
Reserve - Houston Texans

[jbergey22]

You have the best team I have seen thus far DataKing.

A QB that will throw a ton of TDs, 2 good up and coming backs, with arguably the 2 best WRs in fantasy football.

Fantastic Job.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Chubby-

Seems to me that WR is the obvious weakness on your team, but that's also typically one of the easiest weaknesses to address during the season. Palmer was a steal at $2, and I like your RB rotation (I assume you're looking at Turner as an every-week starter and then playing the matchup game with either Charles or Forte as your RB2). I like the Shaincoe grab too...we all know how much Favre loves throwing to the TE in the red zone.


Here's mine. TD-heavy 12-team keeper league (keepers are italicized):

QB - Jay Cutler (note: this league does not penalize for INTs )
Reserve - Donovan McNabb

RB1 - Rashard Mendenhall
RB2 - Shonn Greene
Reserves - Jonathan Stewart, Jerome Harrison, Tim Hightower

WR/TE1 - Andre Johnson
WR/TE2 - Larry Fitzgerald
WR/TE3 - Mike Sims-Walker
Reserves - Jason Witten, Lee Evans

PK - Ryan Longwell
Reserve - Lawrence Tynes

Def/ST - Minnesota Vikings
Reserve - Houston Texans

Yup, I made sure to priotitize rb>wr as I can always grab a filler WR during the season if needed. I think I got Charles and Spiller at a bargain (at least compared to the ESPN writer's auction draft). I overpaid a little on Shiancoe but as you said, I think he will get a lot of RZ looks with Favre at QB. I plan on going 3 RB/2 WR. I obviously love going with rookies after my starters are set to try and hit on a breakout guy. I can always grab a 5/6 pt vet off of FA if I need to.

[Arles]

Here's mine from the 14-team FOFC Auction/keeper league (2 RB, 3 WR, no flex, no PPR). Because of the keeper rules (add $10 to what you bid to keep next season), I didn't worry too much about getting star keepers. I mean, bidding $49 for Matthews or $35 for Best wouldn't have been a keeper deal ($59 and $45 accordingly). I do think there's a chance someone like Hardesty or Jones (both $4) could be keepers, but I'm not really counting on it.

Party at Moon Tower
Budget $200

QB - Drew Brees $45
QB - Mark Sanchez $1

HB - Rashard Mendenhall $51
HB - Matt Forte $21
HB - Ricky Williams $7
HB - Montario Hardesty $5
HB - Leon Washington $1

WR - Roddy White $34
WR - Chad Ochocinco $15
WR - Santana Moss $6
WR - Jacoby Jones $4
WR - Mike Thomas $1

TE - Visanthe Shiancoe $4

K - Dan Carpenter $1
D - Philadelphia $4

[Sublime 2]

I guess I'll jump in: 10 team keeper league, 1st season, 1st pick. 4 keepers next year.
.5 PPR

QB Peyton Manning
RB Chris Johnson
RB Jonathan Stewart
WR Brandon Marshall
WR Mike Sims-Walker
WR Mike Wallace
TE Kellen Winslow
Flex Matt Forte

K Prater
D Saints

BN Donald Brown
BN Darren McFadden
BN Mike Williams (TB)
BN Bernard Berrian
BN Steve Slaton
BN Vincent Jackson

I feel like I went a little too much with youth/breakout potential on my bench. Before the season starts, I'll likely pick up Stafford or Vince Young and drop Slaton/McFadden depending on which one looks worse.

[DataKing]

Sublime: Which were your keepers? Nabbing Manning and Chris Johnson both sounds like a complete coup to me.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Sublime: Which were your keepers? Nabbing Manning and Chris Johnson both sounds like a complete coup to me.

First season/draft, got Johnson at 1.1 and Manning at 2.12.

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by Danny

Fantasy Football -

Bullshit site Said Foster and Mathews were not legit starters!

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

First season/draft, got Johnson at 1.1 and Manning at 2.12.

Peyton Manning at 2.12 is grand theft quarterback...nice job.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Peyton Manning at 2.12 is grand theft quarterback...nice job.

Seriously - were you drafting with monkeys?

[molson]

I think too many people fall in love with the "draft a QB late" strategy, and refuse to adjust if one of the top guys falls in their lap.

[thesloppy]

I'm in an 8-man, 2-keeper league, with pretty flexible rosters, and as such all of our rosters are relatively loaded...that said, I'm still chuffed with the quality of receivers I took home (at the expense of QB).

Player Bye Drafted
Flacco, Joe BAL QB - 8 11.07
Kolb, Kevin PHI QB - 8 14.02
Addai, Joseph IND RB (P) - 7 7.03
Jackson, Steven STL RB (P) - 9 FA
McCoy, LeSean PHI RB - 8 4.08
Portis, Clinton WAS RB (P) - 9 10.06
Spiller, C.J. BUF RB (R) - 6 6.02
Bowe, Dwayne KCC WR - 4 5.01
Houshmandzadeh, T.J. SEA WR (P) - 5 9.05
Johnson, Andre HOU WR - 7 FA
Marshall, Brandon MIA WR (P) - 5 2.06
Ochocinco, Chad CIN WR - 6 3.07
White, Roddy ATL WR - 8 1.05
Celek, Brent PHI TE - 8 13.01
Chargers, San Diego SDC Def - 10 12.08
Eagles, Philadelphia PHI Def - 8 8.04
16 Total Players

[johnnyshaka]

12 team keeper league (keep a starting lineup each year) with PPR scoring...I won last year so I was picking 12th except in the 2nd as I had an additional pick:

QB: Romo (K), Orton
RB: CJ (K), Mendenhall (K), Hightower, M. Bush
WR: Moss (K), Harvin (K), Ochocinco, Britt
TE: Celek (K), Pettigrew
K: K. Brown (K), Buehler
DEF: Chargers (K), Texans

At our draft we can only draft double what our starting requirements are...so we can only draft 4 RBs...no more. Later on we can change the makeup of our team...just not on draft day. We also start a FLEX that can be any position.

Would've liked to get Stafford as my backup QB but he went a pick or two before I nabbed Orton. Loved the Bush pick as I got him at the end of the 3rd round (remember, we have 8 keepers and he was one of the last RBs picked) but with his thumb injury he'll surely need a few weeks to get back into the swing of things and hopefully McFadden doesn't light things up early.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Bullshit site Said Foster and Mathews were not legit starters!

I don't think it said exactly that, but in a 10 team league, Matthews grades out as a borderline #1 RB and Foster as a poor #2 RB. In a 12 team league, Matthews is a below average #1 and Foster still a poor #2. Though both those guys have a lot of upside for sure.

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I'm in an 8-man, 2-keeper league, with pretty flexible rosters, and as such all of our rosters are relatively loaded...that said, I'm still chuffed with the quality of receivers I took home (at the expense of QB).

Player Bye Drafted
Flacco, Joe BAL QB - 8 11.07
Kolb, Kevin PHI QB - 8 14.02
Addai, Joseph IND RB (P) - 7 7.03
Jackson, Steven STL RB (P) - 9 FA
McCoy, LeSean PHI RB - 8 4.08
Portis, Clinton WAS RB (P) - 9 10.06
Spiller, C.J. BUF RB (R) - 6 6.02
Bowe, Dwayne KCC WR - 4 5.01
Houshmandzadeh, T.J. SEA WR (P) - 5 9.05
Johnson, Andre HOU WR - 7 FA
Marshall, Brandon MIA WR (P) - 5 2.06
Ochocinco, Chad CIN WR - 6 3.07
White, Roddy ATL WR - 8 1.05
Celek, Brent PHI TE - 8 13.01
Chargers, San Diego SDC Def - 10 12.08
Eagles, Philadelphia PHI Def - 8 8.04
16 Total Players

I'm high on Flacco this year, and was sad to see that he was kept in my league. I'm expecting big things from him this year, it being his 3rd in the league and with good receivers like Boldin and Mason helping him out of jams.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by DataKing

I'm high on Flacco this year, and was sad to see that he was kept in my league. I'm expecting big things from him this year, it being his 3rd in the league and with good receivers like Boldin and Mason helping him out of jams.

I kinda let everybody else draft me into him, but I'm not complaining too much, as I had him last year and he was accurate if not spectacular, and I too hope Boldin will help his progress. In hindsight, by the time my 1st pick rolled around 6 QBs were already kept or picked, and Rivers went before my second pick, leaving me to either pick Rivers with my 1st, take a flyer on Favre in or before the 5th, or select from the bunch of guys in Flacco's tier later....I ended up with Flacco in the 11th which feels like a good value, but I also came away feeling like I probably shoulda grabbed a starting QB before the 11th round. I also ended up knowingly taking a backup QB with the same bye week (Kolb), just 'cause he was the best obvious remaining value, so I'm feeling pretty shaky at QB, despite liking Flacco's upside.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Seriously - were you drafting with monkeys?

Haha, I hope so!

I made a lil mistake, it's 10 team league, so I got Manning at 2.10:

1. Chris Johnson
2. Adrian Peterson
3. Ray Rice
4. Maurice Jones-Drew
5. Andre Johnson
6. Frank Gore
7. Michael Turner
8. Steven Jackson
9. Rashard Mendenhall
10. Drew Brees
Round 2
1. Randy Moss
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Reggie Wayne
5. Calvin Johnson
6. Ryan Mathews
7. Ryan Grant
8. Shonn Greene
9. Tom Brady
10. Peyton Manning

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Haha, I hope so!

I made a lil mistake, it's 10 team league, so I got Manning at 2.10:

1. Chris Johnson
2. Adrian Peterson
3. Ray Rice
4. Maurice Jones-Drew
5. Andre Johnson
6. Frank Gore
7. Michael Turner
8. Steven Jackson
9. Rashard Mendenhall
10. Drew Brees
Round 2
1. Randy Moss
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Reggie Wayne
5. Calvin Johnson
6. Ryan Mathews
7. Ryan Grant
8. Shonn Greene
9. Tom Brady
10. Peyton Manning

That's still a steal. I can kind of understand passing on Brady and Manning in the 1st round, but the guys picking 2.5 thru 2.8 need to have their heads examined. Megatron, a rookie RB, Grant and Greene before Brady or Manning? Really?!?!

[MacroGuru]

$20 buy in, work league, 12 teams, we had to set up our auto draft lists last night...it's hard with my job to get everyone together for a live draft.

QB: Carson Palmer (2.11)
QB: Ben Roethlisberger (13.2)
RB: Adrian Peterson (1.2)
RB: C.J. Spiller (5.2)
RB: Ricky Williams (12.11)
WR: DeSean Jackson (3.2)
WR: Chad Ochocinco (4.11)
WR: Robert Meachem (9.2)
WR: Nate Washington (14.11)
WR: Roy Williams (15.2)
TE: Jermaine Gresham (6.11)
TE: Todd Heap (10.11)
PK: Stephen Gostkowski (7.2)
TD: Cincinnati Bengals (8.11)
TD: Indianapolis Colts (11.2)

I know I have a Bengals theme here with Palmer, Ocho and Gresham but I will look at the weekly matchups and see what I need to do. Roy Williams was probably the least favorable pick up for me.

I took Big Ben and he will sit the bench obviously until he is back in action and we will see what happens there.

[Arles]

As Molson said above, everyone reads the "smartest guys in the room" analysts who think a great draft is getting a ton of HB and WR - but starting Carson Palmer or Chad Henne as your QB. They get the most "oohs" in the draft room, but often never enter the playoff discussion.

In the past 3 seasons, I've either won or made the finals with the strategy of having a top 4 QB. HBs (Charles, Harrison, Rice ...) and WRs (Austin, Rice, Jackson and a slew of others) always come out of the woodwork. But the top 4-5 QBs are normally from Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning (with a Romo/Schaub as well). You *may* get a Favre or Kurt Warner situation every couple seasons, but that's far from the rule. So, I don't see the logic with going with Shonn Greene, Ryan Grant or Ryan Mathews over Brady/Manning.

Heck, in our FOFC keeper auction, Mathews went for more than Brees, Manning or Brady. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by DataKing

That's still a steal. I can kind of understand passing on Brady and Manning in the 1st round, but the guys picking 2.5 thru 2.8 need to have their heads examined. Megatron, a rookie RB, Grant and Greene before Brady or Manning? Really?!?!

I'm amazed at how often it's revealed to me that people who seem to know Fantasy Football aren't actually paying attention (at least by my estimation). Case in point, I had one of my owners very recently comment how he loved our scoring rules because 9 out of 10 players were QBs, and how unique that was. I told him to double check the scoring for all the major leagues, because that's pretty much how it was across the board, and the way it's been for the past few years...yet rankings are still slow to adjust (which is what threw off my owner), and you'll still see rankings with 10 RBs in the top 12 players, RIGHT NEXT to lists showing 2009 results with handfuls of QBs scoring hundreds more than those exact RBs. It seems that more and more fantasy 'experts' are advocating taking elite/top QBs early, but it still seems that it's considered an adventurous strategy, and the rankings don't necessarily reflect that strategy, and most actual fantasy football players haven't adjusted at all, and continue to rank RB way too heavy....a strategy enforced perhaps by force of habit, and a dearth of quality RBs beyond the obvious studs. Alls I know is I sure the hell would rather have Peyton Manning than Ryan Grant or Rashard Mendenhall.



...says the guy who just admitted to drafting his starting QB in the 11th round.

[Arles]

2009 Top 5 drafted QBs on ESPN (points - end of season rank):
1. Brees (280 - 2)
2. Manning (272 - 4)
3. Brady (261 - 6)
4. Rodgers (327 - 1)
5. Rivers (258 - 7)

Only a crazy season from Favre stopped those 5 from all being top 6 guys. QBs 8-12 in the draft were McNabb (223), Ryan (172), Cassel (154) and Palmer (198). Only McNabb was within 70 points of Manning. Out of the top 7 picked (Warner, Romo) - only Warner was a bust.

Top 15 HBs
1. Adrian Peterson (265 - 2)
2. Michael Turner (141 - 22)
3. MJD (255 - 3)
4. Matt Forte (150 - 17)
5. Steven Jackson (180 - 10)
6. DeAngelo Williams (166 - 13)
7. Chris Johnson (329 - 1)
8. LT (146 - 20)
9. Gore (214-6)
10. Jacobs (125 - 29)
11. Slaten (107 - 35)
12. Westbrook (51 - 60)
13. Portis (58 - 44)
14. Barber (144 - 21)
15. Kevin Smith (131 - 26)

WRs are a safer than RBs (5 of the top 10 were rated top 10). But, you still had Austin (3), D. Jackson (5), Rice (8) and V. Jackson (9) all rated outside the top 20 with top 8 production.

So, last season, while you would have gotten a "good job" from everyone when you took Matt Forte and Brandon Jacobs over Manning/Brees/Rodgers in the first two rounds, your team would have been in bad shape. If you get Brees/Rodgers/Manning/Brady this year, you will probably have a top 5 QB. If you go with a top 10-15 HB/WR instead, odds are much longer that you will get a top 10 guy.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I'm amazed at how often it's revealed to me that people who seem to know Fantasy Football aren't actually paying attention (at least by my estimation). Case in point, I had one of my owners very recently comment how he loved our scoring rules because 9 out of 10 players were QBs, and how unique that was. I told him to double check the scoring for all the major leagues, because that's pretty much how it was across the board, and the way it's been for the past few years...yet rankings are still slow to adjust (which is what threw off my owner), and you'll still see rankings with 10 RBs in the top 12 players, RIGHT NEXT to lists showing 2009 results with handfuls of QBs scoring hundreds more than those exact RBs. It seems that more and more fantasy 'experts' are advocating taking elite/top QBs early, but it still seems that it's considered an adventurous strategy, and the rankings don't necessarily reflect that strategy, and most actual fantasy football players haven't adjusted at all, and continue to rank RB way too heavy....a strategy enforced perhaps by force of habit, and a dearth of quality RBs beyond the obvious studs. Alls I know is I sure the hell would rather have Peyton Manning than Ryan Grant or Rashard Mendenhall.



...says the guy who just admitted to drafting his starting QB in the 11th round.

Our rules for passing points really limits QBs as we only give 4 pts for passing TDs and only award 1 point per 33 yards yet a decent QB will still put up very good numbers compared to most RB3 out there. So, a few years ago, when I purposefully drafted Romo nearly a round early because I figured he was a better bet as a flex starter than some RBBC member the league was up in arms saying that QBs were worth WAY too much and that RBs were way more important. LOL!!!

Times change, my friends...and RBBC has leveled the playing field, somewhat.

[Arles]

Not to beat a dead horse, but the experts are still living in the past with some of their rankings. ESPN's own Matthew Berry has Manning and Romo (his 3rd and 4th QBs) ranked 27 and 28 - behind such players as Pierre Thomas, Jonathan Stewart, Ryan Mathews, Shonn Greene and Beanie Wells. I would be shocked if any of those HBs finishes top 8 or if Manning/Romo are not top 5 QBs. The logic in taking a platoon HB like Thomas or Stewart over Manning seems idiotic.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

the league was up in arms saying that QBs were worth WAY too much and that RBs were way more important. LOL!!!.

Heh. It's so hard to balance, because scoring seems to cycle between the positions every 2-3 years, but for my money QB should be the position that is overbalanced, right? That's more analogous to 'real football', especially as you said with the shift to RBBC. If teams are only giving guys 10-15 carries a game, we shouldn't be adjusting to make those guys MORE valuable in fantasy football, but that is oddly what a lot of people advocate when faced with the alternative of simply adjusting their expectations of how fantasy football is 'supposed' to work. This seems to be even more amplified in keeper leagues that have been playing for years and years, as old habits die hard, and ten years ago you were supposed to keep drafting RBs until you had to draft fullbacks, and keeper leagues always seem resistant to change just out of spite/inattention/tradition.

[DataKing]

Keeper leagues are inherently resistant to change, because people have built their teams based on the "old" rules. That's why any changes to my league are voted on before the draft, and do not go into effect until the beginning of the following season, in order to give everyone time to adjust and as even a playing field as possible.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Arles

ESPN's own Matthew Berry has Manning and Romo (his 3rd and 4th QBs) ranked 27 and 28 - behind such players as Pierre Thomas, Jonathan Stewart, Ryan Mathews, Shonn Greene and Beanie Wells. I would be shocked if any of those HBs finishes top 8 or if Manning/Romo are not top 5 QBs. The logic in taking a platoon HB like Thomas or Stewart over Manning seems idiotic.

Come on. Beanie Wells over Manning? As maddening as it makes me when I see these rankings, I was drafting right behind a guy picking from some list he cribbed off of a martian yesterday, and I was FUCKING LOVING IT. Nothing better than picking right behind an idiot who never snipes your prospects.

[johnnyshaka]

My current keeper league is something like 15 years old although this will be my 5th season with these guys. Change is very, very difficult to get through their heads...case in point, we finally managed to get enough support, barely, to start using a waiver wire!! Seriously!! Half the guys still call in their starting lineups to the commish on Saturday night and were very reluctant to push the lineup freeze to just prior to the early games on Sunday...it's hilarious. Heck, most of them still waste their money on flipping magazines for crying out loud...yet insist on calling me a geek as I pop open my laptop...the one I bought with my winnings from last season!! LOL!!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Arles

2009 Top 5 drafted QBs on ESPN (points - end of season rank):
1. Brees (280 - 2)
2. Manning (272 - 4)
3. Brady (261 - 6)
4. Rodgers (327 - 1)
5. Rivers (258 - 7)

Only a crazy season from Favre stopped those 5 from all being top 6 guys. QBs 8-12 in the draft were McNabb (223), Ryan (172), Cassel (154) and Palmer (198). Only McNabb was within 70 points of Manning. Out of the top 7 picked (Warner, Romo) - only Warner was a bust.

Top 15 HBs
1. Adrian Peterson (265 - 2)
2. Michael Turner (141 - 22)
3. MJD (255 - 3)
4. Matt Forte (150 - 17)
5. Steven Jackson (180 - 10)
6. DeAngelo Williams (166 - 13)
7. Chris Johnson (329 - 1)
8. LT (146 - 20)
9. Gore (214-6)
10. Jacobs (125 - 29)
11. Slaten (107 - 35)
12. Westbrook (51 - 60)
13. Portis (58 - 44)
14. Barber (144 - 21)
15. Kevin Smith (131 - 26)

WRs are a safer than RBs (5 of the top 10 were rated top 10). But, you still had Austin (3), D. Jackson (5), Rice (8) and V. Jackson (9) all rated outside the top 20 with top 8 production.

So, last season, while you would have gotten a "good job" from everyone when you took Matt Forte and Brandon Jacobs over Manning/Brees/Rodgers in the first two rounds, your team would have been in bad shape. If you get Brees/Rodgers/Manning/Brady this year, you will probably have a top 5 QB. If you go with a top 10-15 HB/WR instead, odds are much longer that you will get a top 10 guy.

I totally agree with this -- however, even if you know it, the fact that rounds 1-2 have such a run on RBs makes it still tempting to get one, then figure you can get a Top 5 QB in the 2nd round. That's my dilemma now -- in my draft tomorrow, I'm 5th, and even though I want a Top QB, I'm hoping that one falls.

[Arles]

In ESPN standard scoring (4 pts TD, -1 INT) in 2009, the difference between Manning (#4 QB) and Cutler (#10) was over 70 points. Once you left the Romo/Brady/Rivers area, you were going from the 260s down to the 210s-220s. When you go from the #8 (Addai) to #15 HB (Benson), you only lost 17 points. Heck, Fred Jackson and Moreno (17 and 18) still got you 155 points compared to the number 10 guy (Charles) who got 177. After you leave the top 4-5 HBs, the value really plummets. Rice (4) had 230 points and Addai (8) had 180. That's 50 points between 5 spots.

If you could predict that Ray Rice, Thomas Jones and Chris Johnson were going to be top 5 HBs last season, then by all means draft them. But unless you can get a top 5-6 guy, you're wasting a pick by going HB over Rodgers/Brees/Manning/Brady. Last year, you were supposed to take Brandon Jacobs, Moss, Calvin Johnson, Steve Slaten, Clinton Portis, Steve Smith and Brian Westbrook ahead of Manning or Brady. This year, it's Ryan Grant, Mathews, Greene, D Williams, Marshall, Pierre Thomas and Benson. I have a feeling maybe 1 of these guys will be top 10 at their position this year (most out of the top 15) - while Manning/Brees/Rodgers/Brady once again all finish top 5-6.

[Glengoyne]

I agree with the above assessment regarding the value of QBs. I've been the gracious recipient of having those top QBs fall to me in years past. I was hoping for more of the same this year.

This year in my round robin draft, I drew the second pick. I decided to roll the dice and see if a top QB would come back to me, we have 8 teams. I went for Adrian Peterson. Others in my league have caught on though. None of the top QBs made it out of the first round even. When it came back to me I went with Miles Austin and then Phillip Rivers with my third pick. I managed to nab Favre in the middle/late rounds however. So while I'm not thrilled with my QBs, I'm hoping to get by, just hoping that Adrian Peterson stays healthy.

In our league QBs are very powerful, minus three for an interception, and seven points for TDs.

Our individual Defensive players are crazy powerful as well. two points/tackle, one/asssist, four points for a sack, five for an int.

In that format, Patrick Willis is like having a second QB.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Keeper leagues are inherently resistant to change, because people have built their teams based on the "old" rules. That's why any changes to my league are voted on before the draft, and do not go into effect until the beginning of the following season, in order to give everyone time to adjust and as even a playing field as possible.

I eventually grew to hate the loving, democratic process I proposed in the beginning of my league, and have since adopted an entirely rigid and draconian manner of government. There was much moaning and gnashing of teeth at the moment of the change and immediately following, but it's been smooth as butter in the years since (as according to me). Basically I told everybody to pretend I was ESPN.com or some such, and just play the fantasy football that I stick in front of them....for whatever reason long term leagues, with the best of friends, will eventually devolve into heated politics and bullshit if left up to the democratic process. Removing the ability to have any input on the rules reduced the disagreements about rules entirely. If pressed some of the owners would probably say they'd like more input, but they probably wouldn't be able to tell you what they want input about, just that they'd like to be able to make some sort of input in general for no particular reason....but keep it all out of sight and it all stays remarkably out of mind, and we spend all our time playing Fantasy Football and zero time playing Fantasy Owner's Meeting.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I totally agree with this -- however, even if you know it, the fact that rounds 1-2 have such a run on RBs makes it still tempting to get one, then figure you can get a Top 5 QB in the 2nd round. That's my dilemma now -- in my draft tomorrow, I'm 5th, and even though I want a Top QB, I'm hoping that one falls.

I agree here. IMO, I have to get one of Rodgers/Brees/Manning/Brady/Romo/Schaub on every team I have. If I feel I can get one later, great. In my 10-team league that tends to go HB heavy, I went Gore, Moss, Calvin Johnson and then Schaub in the early 4th. No harm in maximizing value. It's just when 3-4 of these guys go off the board, I don't risk it and take one.

I mean, would I have felt better with Kolb, Gore, Beanie Wells, Moss and Calvin Johnson over having Schaub, Gore, Moss and Johnson and a later HB (like Ronnie Brown)? The odds that Beanie Wells significantly outperforms a back like Brown or Forte seem much slimmer than Romo/Schaub outperforming Kolb.

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I eventually grew to hate the loving, democratic process I proposed in the beginning of my league, and have since adopted an entirely rigid and draconian manner of government. There was much moaning and gnashing of teeth at the moment of the change and immediately following, but it's been smooth as butter in the years since (as according to me). Basically I told everybody to pretend I was ESPN.com or some such, and just play the fantasy football that I stick in front of them....for whatever reason long term leagues, with the best of friends, will eventually devolve into heated politics and bullshit if left up to the democratic process. Removing the ability to have any input on the rules reduced the disagreements about rules entirely. If pressed some of the owners would probably say they'd like more input, but they probably wouldn't be able to tell you what they want input about, just that they'd like to be able to make some sort of input in general for no particular reason....but keep it all out of sight and it all stays remarkably out of mind, and we spend all our time playing Fantasy Football and zero time playing Fantasy Owner's Meeting.

Part of the reason why we're able to use the democratic process in my league is that this thing has been running since 1994 (IIRC), with at least half of the owners (myself included) from that original group. So over the past 16 years, we've already aired out a lot of discussions and had those heated debates. Just like Congress, it can take a long time to get stupid rules overturned, but eventually it does work. And personally, I enjoy the debates. It makes for good posting material and nobody takes it personally...we're a pretty thick-skinned bunch. But it can be frustrating at times. For the longest time the league (a keeper league) operated on a serpentine draft structure with draft position determined by prior-year performance. It took a while for myself and a few others to finally convince the rest of the league that this was extraordinarily stupid and unfair, but eventually justice was served.

[thesloppy]

The counter to the elite QB theory, and the possible salvation of the guy left picking from the bottom of the barrel (like myself yesterday) is that there is usually a top performer or two, or a dozen 'good' QBs, to be had from the waiver wire. Once you've missed out on the obvious 5-6 stud QBs, you're almost better off ignoring QB completely until you've filled the rest of your starting lineup entirely, with hopeful studs that can cover for your deficiencies at QB. Drafting a good-but-not-great QB in the 3rd-6th rounds is probably going to deny you a quality skill player, whereas you can still get a relatively comparable, good QB in the last few rounds, or even off the scrap pile.