Buying a new computer, like some input!

[Philliesfan980]

Hey guys,

I'm going to be purchasing a new computer sometime in the next few weeks. I'm not a total expert, but I think I have a pretty good idea of what to get. It seems that now its cheaper to go to a merchants website and buy all the components from them , and they also take out the hassle of assembly. Keeping everything under the same warranty also makes things a little easier also.

Here's what I'm looking to get:

P4 - 2.66 533mhz (I hear that the 3.06 HT is overkill right now)
1024 MB 3200 RAM
Radion 9700 All in Wonder PRO 128 MEG(video capture purposes)
120 GIG Western Digital HDD w/ 8 meg cache
17 inch LCD display (not sure what brand yet).
Speakers? I want nice ones
DVD/CDROM (16x)/(52x24x52)
WINXP PROFESSIONAL
Sound Card?
Motherboard for intel ?(Furture upgrade to Intel HT Processors must)
All other compents (keyboard/mouse/etc - don't matter)

Any idea's where I can get all this stuff at the best price?
Any other suggestions? Missing Items? Overkill items?

Thanks alot!

Philliesfan980

[Franklinnoble]

Dude, you're gettin' a Dell

[Philliesfan980]

I really don't want a Dell. I like those small "We build our's in the garage" places. I don't want some of my price going to outrageous advertising expenses and advertising.

Basically I priced this out on one website and I can get it all for about $1700, give or take some components. I'm willing to go up to $2,000 for quality stuff.

[Airhog]

why get a lcd monitor? those things are still pretty expensive.....

as for a soundcard, the Creative brand is still pretty good.

[Calis]

As far as speakers go, if you want reasonable price, I really enjoy my Creative Inspire 5300's, great set of 5.1's for about 90 bucks. Now, if you want top notch, you can get the Klipsch's or the new Logitechs which are top of the line, but they're going to cost you about 300 bucks or so. I'd highly recommend the Inspire's though, you can find them most anywhere for about 90 bucks.

I would still definitely say it's cheaper to buy the parts yourself and assemble, it just depends on if you're comfortable doing that. The warranties being tired together usually isn't an issue, for me at least, but I see what you're saying, it's nice to be free of dealing with troubleshooting.

I have however heard that for pre-builds, this place is top notch, and great prices compared to others.

Monarch

[Philliesfan980]

I love the space savings with an LCD monitor. Currently I have an HP system with a 19 inch CRT. The damn thing takes up about 1/3 of my desk.

I've seen 17 inch for around $300-350. I'll pay the extra 100 for the space savings. Plus their cool.

[Franklinnoble]

I have to second Calis' point... it's cheaper (and, in my opinion, more satisfying) to buy the parts online or at your local Fry's Electronics and build it yourself. You don't have to be a computer technician to pull it off.

I was kidding with the Dell comment. They're stuff is fine in my book, but I haven't bought a pre-manufactured PC in ten years - I always buy and build... easier to upgrade, and less hassles with proprietary architecture.

[Calis]

Couple more things I forgot, are they making P4's that actually use the PC3200 yet? Last I checked they were still on the DDR333. I haven't checked in a while though.

As for sound cards, honestly...next PC purchase I make WILL NOT be a Creative Sound Card. Since I've bought my last computer, 99% of my problems have been related to the Creative card, which is just amazing considering it's the most widely used card around. Next purchase I'll definitely be getting away from them, I'm sick of the hassle, and their monopoly over cards in general.

I'd probably try a Santa Cruz, or maybe a Hercules instead personally, well personally I'll be getting a nForce 2 mobo with my next purchase which has some sweet onboard sound, it's an AMD mobo though, not sure if they plan on releasing Pentium versions.

[Philliesfan980]

Thanks Cali's

Yeah, I've built my own PC before. But between all the different shipping costs you kinda beat yourself trying to do it. I'll have to look into that though.

Anyone know of a kick butt intel motherboard thats EXPANDABLE for future CPU's? Really don't want to spend more than about 100-150 for a Mboard.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by Philliesfan980
I love the space savings with an LCD monitor. Currently I have an HP system with a 19 inch CRT. The damn thing takes up about 1/3 of my desk.

I've seen 17 inch for around $300-350. I'll pay the extra 100 for the space savings. Plus their cool.

One thing about CRT's - you generally get higher resolution and better color and brightness for your money. Check the specs on an LCD before you buy it... a "reasonably priced" flatscreen might look like a sweet deal, but the resolution could top out at 1024x768 (I prefer much higher resolution).

[sabotai]

Going with a comparible AMD processor will save you a good $300 or so.

"17 inch LCD display (not sure what brand yet)."

If you plan on using this computer for mostly gaming, I would stick with a CRT monitor. They are cheaper and they still make a better image for gaming.

Don't get me wrong, I have an LCD and I like it. But as far as the picture goes when there is a lot of motion on the screen (like when gaming or watching DVDs), the LCD just looks worse than a CRT.

They might have fixed this by now, though as I have an older LCD.

But I will say this, LCDs are very easy on the eyes.

"Sound Card?"

Soundblaster Audigy

Dunno about motherboards. If you do change your mind and get AMD, ASUS and Gigbyte make good boards. (Dunno if they make Intel boards though. I'm sure one of them probably does)

[Philliesfan980]

Cali's

Yeah I was confusing myself for the PC3200, thats only AMD stuff. Intel uses the DDR333.

I'm going to need a nice sound card (Maybe something under $100), because I'm buying the ATI9700 all in wonder for video capture purposes, it would be foolish not to get a nice sound card to capture that sound as well.

[Calis]

Phillies, I'll have to snoop around on Intel Mobo's a bit more, I'm a little out of the loop with them, but I will firmly stand behind getting an ASUS board. It's all I've ever bought for my Intel's, and they consistently put out great boards.

Not sure what the newest models are, but I'm sure you can get a real nice one for the $130 range or roughly.

[Bee]

Originally posted by Philliesfan980
I love the space savings with an LCD monitor. Currently I have an HP system with a 19 inch CRT. The damn thing takes up about 1/3 of my desk.

I've seen 17 inch for around $300-350. I'll pay the extra 100 for the space savings. Plus their cool.

If you spend that little on a 17" LCD, you might not get the performance you'd expect out of your video card. Cheap LCD's generally are not very good for 3D gaming. If you're not 3D gaming, you probably don't need to spend the money on that video card. I'd change one or the other depending on if you play a lot of 3D high-end computer games or not. JMO.

Edit: To clarify a little, the response time on cheaper LCDs are usually pretty slow. It's not noticeable working on spreadsheets or playing games like FOF, but if you start playing a high-end graphic intensive game you'll see a lot of stuttering etc from the monitor.

[sabotai]

dola

I'm surprised Calis. I've had a SB Audigy for awhile now and I have never had a problem with it.

[Philliesfan980]

What about all this talk about the new HT series from Intel (Hyper Threading). Is this going to be worth it. I hear its wonders for multi-tasking and video encoding, stuff thats highly CPU intensive.

Aren't there two types of Soundblaster Audigy?

[sabotai]

Audigy 2 just came out, but from what I've read so far (which admittably isn't much), the only real new thing they added was support for 6.1 sound...so you basically only need it if you plan on using 6.1 sound...if not save the dough and get just an Audigy (1).

[Philliesfan980]

I understand what everyones talking about with the LCD issues. I hear that "Ghosting" Can be a big problem. Maybe I'll have to suck it up and just get a bigger desk for a nice CRT.

Just to summarize, Other than the size, the LCD has no other inheritant advantages vrs crt? (at this point in time of course).

[sabotai]

"Just to summarize, Other than the size, the LCD has no other inheritant advantages vrs crt? (at this point in time of course)."

Before I got an LCD, I used to have to take breaks from the computer because I eyes would start to bug out. When I moved to LCD, I noticed that ti was so much easier on the eyes. I dunno if it's the LCD itself or that it is flatscreen.

All I know is now when I look at a non-flatscreen CRT...damn. Looks like I'm looking at a glass sphrere, that's how dramatic the curves on the screen are to me now.

[Airhog]

I have to second the ASUS comment, I really like my ASUS motherboard, and will probably put an ASUS mb back in when I upgrade again..

[Philliesfan980]

Also another issue is AMD vs. Intel

I know that this is an age old debate, but Can I get similar performance from the cheaper AMD product? I plan on using the CPU for everything you could possibly think of, including high end gaming.

I hear that AMD just released a new set of chips, I forget what their all about though.

[Calis]

Hyperthreading is a great technology and it does have an effect on some business applications, a lot of the 3D Rendering software and such will take advantage of it, but as for games and such if that's what you're looking for, it's going to be a while before we start seeing them take advantage of it.

I think it'll be a great thing, I'm not sure how well it's implemented in this first generation, and I would definitely say it's not neccessary to have. I'm very anxious to see what happens with it a couple years down the road.

[sabotai]

http://www.tomshardware.com/display/20020114/lcd-03.html

This shows a chart on LCD vs CRT.

[Philliesfan980]

"All I know is now when I look at a non-flatscreen CRT...damn. Looks like I'm looking at a glass sphrere, that's how dramatic the curves on the screen are to me now."

Oh yeah I notice a big difference just between the CRT at work (non-flat) vs. my CRT at home (flat screen). Now I just wonder the difference between the CRT flat screen and LCD flat screen.

[sabotai]

Both AMD and Intel have their high points and their low points. It's a debate that'll never end.

However, if you do plan on doing "everything" with this computer, then in the end all of the advantages and disadvantages of each chip even out. And what you're left is price.

That's how I see it anyway.

True, Intel always has the faster chip. But it's always just a step faster. I never felt that extra step was worth and extra $300 or $400.

[Bee]

Like sabotai said, the LCD is easier on the eyes and it also uses less power (if you're a environmentalist type ).

Most LCD's (if not all) also have a fixed resolution. You can display outside of that resolution, but they either distort the image slightly or use blackout on the edges.

[Calis]

Difference is huge, trust me...I work with dual LCD's at work(I love it) and a flat screen CRT at home...it's just amazing the difference on your eyes. I really do get tired of looking at my monitor at home.

That said, I still believe quality-wise, LCD's can't tough CRT's yet, and with that 9700 you'll want that extra bit from the CRT.

As for the AMD vs. Intel issue, I think it's at a point now where they're pretty close, Intel even a bit ahead of AMD with the 3.06 and such, and they're close on price, AMD being a little cheaper. Even so, I was seriously thinking about buying my first ever AMD next purchase. but that might be due in part to the fact I finally switched from nVidia to ATI last graphics card purchase as well.

I do however think you can definitely get just as good if not better performance with an AMD, and you can get this baby, which is the mobo I was talking about, I have a couple of friends with this sucker, and it's a very very sweet board.

Asus NForce2

[Philliesfan980]

Thanks for all the input guys

So these changes have been made to my plan.

1. I'm going to get an AMD over Intel
2. Just going to get the Sharpest CRT I can for versitility reasons
3. Getting a SB audigy for sound
4. the 1024 is worth it right? its not even that much more than 512.


Now we need to start talking about fringe benefits like DVD BURNERS.

[Calis]

Definitely go for the Gig of RAM, it's worth the little extra bit, also this is more important than some people give credit, make sure to get a good brand of RAM also. I'd personally go for Corsair if at all possible, you will have less problems with a big name brand.

Now when you start talking DVD-burners, you're outta my league, can't help ya there.

[sabotai]

DVD Burners....(drool)

[Philliesfan980]

How's Kingston for Memory? I've heard good things about it, plus it doesn't rip your wallet like the Corsair.

[Calis]

Kingston will work fine, and yes, it's definitely more reasonable.

[Philliesfan980]

Alright thanks guys. I'm going to work on a price list (All compents from pricewatch.com) tonight and write up the final price, component by component, in this thread.

[Bee]

Watch out using pricewatch, there are some shady companies that publish prices there.

[sabotai]

Yeah, also make sure you research the companies and prices a bit. Sometimes it looks liek your getting a great deal, but there are "catches" to them.

[astralhaze]

Originally posted by Philliesfan980

3. Getting a SB audigy for sound

Make sure you get the Audigy 2. It's not that much different in price from the old Audigy and the difference in sound quality is noticeable. You may even pick up the Platinum version as it comes with a 5.5" drive with all sorts of bad ass inputs and outputs if you are in to such things, but it is not neccessary.

As far as speakers go, if you have the bank, I would highly recomend the Logitech Z680's. They are quite expensive, but are well worth it. I have them with the Audigy 2 at home hooked up through a digital coaxial connection and the sound quality is amazing. I have heard really clear sound before, I have heard really loud sound before, but this puts out great clear and loud sound. Just have to watch you don't piss of the neighbors with the 250 watt sub

[Daimyo]

I use a 19" flat CRT at home and a 17" LCD at work. Viewable size wise they're very, very similar. I think the main difference is that the LCD seems easier on my eyes... so it works very well for work related things where you need to read a lot of stuff all day. The CRT seems better for images, video, or graphics though. Also, my LCD is pretty much stuck at 1280x1024 (I can make it lower, but the quality gets shot to hell). With the 19" I can pretty comfortably go from 1024x768 to 1600x1200 depending on what I'm doing which is nice a lot of times.

I would be very, very careful about getting a cheap LCD... there is a huge difference between the cheap ones and the nice ones. IMO, the cheap ones aren't worth much and are basically like using cheap laptop screens . If you go the LCD route, I'd make sure you test it out before you buy.

[astralhaze]

Originally posted by sabotai
Audigy 2 just came out, but from what I've read so far (which admittably isn't much), the only real new thing they added was support for 6.1 sound...so you basically only need it if you plan on using 6.1 sound...if not save the dough and get just an Audigy (1).

No, there are other differences. For one, Audigy 2 is the only card out that fully supports DVD audio. Also, the sound quality (khz) is higher on the Audigy 2. If you are looking to save money, go with the Audigy, but you do notice a difference listening to the two cards.

[Daimyo]

I love putting together PC's (the last preconfigured one I bought was a 386 over 10 years ago) and there was a time when you saved huge money doing it yourself, but now that's not really true. Check out the forums at www.fatwallet.com and you can find Dell deals (through coupon and rebate combinations) that pretty easily beat the best do-it-yourself deals. Anymore I do it myself as a hobby...

That said, if you do go the do-it-yourself route, your first stop (after checking fatwallet for the occasaional super deals on components) should be www.newegg.com. For your monitor I'd reccomend staples, office max, or office depot because they give free shipping and they very often have coupons like $40 off a $200 purchase, and they very often have ~$50 mail-in-rebates (that can be combined with the coupons). I got my NEC 19" flat CRT delivered for ~$150 just a month or so ago from one of those three. Deals like that are posted to fatwallet nearly every day.

[sabotai]

"No, there are other differences. For one, Audigy 2 is the only card out that fully supports DVD audio. Also, the sound quality (khz) is higher on the Audigy 2. If you are looking to save money, go with the Audigy, but you do notice a difference listening to the two cards."

Like I said I didn't read much about it. Looks like it might be time to upgrade my sound card....eh, after the 10 other things I need to upgrade.

[Philliesfan980]

Minor Update.. For the heck of it I went to the Dell.com site to attempt to build the pc there.. big mistake.


Pretty much everything listed above.. $2450.

Thats with all those discounts and everything.

[astralhaze]

Dude, I work at Dell and wouldn't buy one. Overpriced with proprietary power supplies and OEM cards.

[Craptacular]

Why do I have the feeling that Philliesfan980 is planning on creating his own interactive porno DVD?

[Anrhydeddu]

1. I'm going to get an AMD over Intel
2. Just going to get the Sharpest CRT I can for versitility reasons
3. Getting a SB audigy for sound
4. the 1024 is worth it right? its not even that much more than 512.

Having spent considerable time building my own/custom-built PCs, you cannot go wrong with these choices. I'm looking to upgrade MB/CPU/RAM later this year and will be sticking with ASUS MB with AMD CPU. I have Audigy and my trusty 19" CRT (non-flat) is perfect for the gaming I do (LCD is still quite a ways off for it to be a gaming monitor).

[INDalltheway]

I have a NEC 18 inch LCD. It is a higher end monitor. My monitor's resolution can go up to 2048x1536. I use 1280x1024 and it is great. As for my computer I have an Alieware. It is a great computer, it was a bit on the expensive side though.

[Philliesfan980]

"Why do I have the feeling that Philliesfan980 is planning on creating his own interactive porno DVD?"

Does this mean I can put you down for one?

[Philliesfan980]

Does anyone know of a good CRT monitor that I can get? I'd prefer a 19 inch, but a 17 inch is okay too. What are the best available monitors out there?

[sterlingice]

Considering you're a power user ("must have most powerful stuff" syndrome), you will really want to get an optical mouse and/or cordless keyboard and cordless/optical mouse. Man, there's no way I would pay that kind of cash for a comp- not that I have it- but I would build myself something that hit more towards the price sweet spot.

BTW, if you want to look at Pentiums, the 2.66 GHz retail (ie comes with everything you need including heatsink) is at $225 on newegg. Also, for a 120 gig hd with an 8 meg cache, they have IBMs for $118 and free shipping.

Not that I would steer you away from an AMD; I'm quite happy with my Athlon 1600 XP.

Unfortunately, since I haven't been buying parts for over a year I have no idea where to look for a monitor (hell, my monitor is a 6 year old 17" from my old Gateway that has long since been dismantled).

SI

[Philliesfan980]

"Considering you're a power user ("must have most powerful stuff" syndrome)"

Its not that I really have a power stuff syndrome thing going on, its just that my philosophy tends to be "Buy top of the line now", so I don't have to upgrade in the next 12-14 months to be current. I know in a year my PC will simply be "above average" , but it will be suitable. I like to upgrade/buy a new PC every 2-2.5 years.

[Calis]

IBM HD's = BAAAAAD.

Stick with WD