Who has the greatest regret?

[Mike1409]

With the Griffey thread earlier here is an article in the local paper the raises an interesting question.

Is Barry Bonds or Ken Griffey Jr. living with the greater regret? - St. Petersburg Times


I say Griffey because Bonds has never publicly shown he cares about anybody but himself.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i went with trout. griffey seems pretty at peace with himself and i don't think bonds is capable of that emotion.

[rowech]

When Bonds doesn't get enough votes for the hall to stay eligible after the frist ballot, there will be a lot of regret.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by rowech

When Bonds doesn't get enough votes for the hall to stay eligible after the frist ballot, there will be a lot of regret.

i still bet he gets in on the 2nd or 3rd vote. the HOF voters may hate him.... but he was still the only player you could ever mention as a comparable to ruth.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

i still bet he gets in on the 2nd or 3rd vote. the HOF voters may hate him.... but he was still the only player you could ever mention as a comparable to ruth.

He'll never get in. Writers won't vote him and veterans never will either.

[Swaggs]

It will be strange to have a hall of fame without Bonds, Clemens, and Rose.

[Swaggs]

...and, I guess I never realized it, but Bonds and Clemens will both be eligible in the same year (they both retired in 2007). It will be difficult to watch ESPN that month.

[Alan T]

Yeah, I highly doubt either of them have much in the way of regrets right now.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by rowech

He'll never get in. Writers won't vote him and veterans never will either.

The writers have proven they don't care if someone was taking PEDs and half the veterans were probably taking them too.

I think he gets in fairly easily.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

The writers have proven they don't care if someone was taking PEDs and half the veterans were probably taking them too.

I think he gets in fairly easily.

+1 on this... you get all the righteous crap from idiots like frank robinson... but when it gets down to it, its just a different era. i would be surprised if the number of MLB players in the 90s that did roids REGULARLY was under 50%

you can leave out a whole generation.....

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

...and, I guess I never realized it, but Bonds and Clemens will both be eligible in the same year (they both retired in 2007). It will be difficult to watch ESPN that month.

So true

SI

[Neon_Chaos]

Chris Webber

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

...you get all the righteous crap from idiots like frank robinson...

He thinks that taking Steroids illegally is cheating? What a moron!

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

The writers have proven they don't care if someone was taking PEDs and half the veterans were probably taking them too.

I think he gets in fairly easily.

Evidence so far is to he contrary. McGwire is 0 for 4 in voting and isn't even close to getting in. No one who has been tainted by the steroids era since 1995 has gotten in.

In the last five years the writers have put in seven players. Three were first-time ballot guys (Ripken, Gwynn and Henderson). The other four (Gossage, Sutter, Rice and Dawson) all languished on the ballot for at least nine years before getting in and no doubt benefitted from the fact that their numbers look better in the context of the sports era.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

The writers have proven they don't care if someone was taking PEDs and half the veterans were probably taking them too.

I think he gets in fairly easily.

The writers did completely slam the door on McGwire though. And while he didn't have Bond's career, he hit 568 Hrs and hasn't cracked 25% of the vote. Is Bonds really going to be the necessary 3X as popular with voters?

[Pumpy Tudors]

comedy Damion Easley response

[kcchief19]

I went with trout here. The idea that Griffey regrets NOT taking steroids is silly. He was the unfortunate victim of injuries, and there's not much he could have done about that -- unless he did what Bonds and McGwire did and not run for 10 years.

I don't think Bonds has an regret now because he doesn't seem to think he did anything wrong.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

i went with trout. griffey seems pretty at peace with himself and i don't think bonds is capable of that emotion.

This.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by molson

The writers did completely slam the door on McGwire though. And while he didn't have Bond's career, he hit 568 Hrs and hasn't cracked 25% of the vote. Is Bonds really going to be the necessary 3X as popular with voters?

I think the fact that Bonds has as many HRs as he does, plus the fact that he was more of an athlete (stolen bases) might get him more votes. No idea if it means HOF, but I think people see McGwire as a power hitter that took enhancers... while Bonds was more of a complete player.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I think the fact that Bonds has as many HRs as he does, plus the fact that he was more of an athlete (stolen bases) might get him more votes. No idea if it means HOF, but I think people see McGwire as a power hitter that took enhancers... while Bonds was more of a complete player.

For people against PEDs making their way into the HoF, they'll not vote for Bonds no matter what his "complete package" was. Doesn't matter if he was better defensively or better speed than McGwire, he still cheated.

The question will come down to whether or not there are enough HoF voters that are going to take that kind of stance against PEDs. I actually think you'll probably see a fairly similar vote for both Bonds and Clemens. Both without a doubt put up stats that are sure-fire hall of fame, so the only reason they get votes or not will be the PED issue.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

i went with trout. griffey seems pretty at peace with himself and i don't think bonds is capable of that emotion.

+2

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I think the fact that Bonds has as many HRs as he does, plus the fact that he was more of an athlete (stolen bases) might get him more votes. No idea if it means HOF, but I think people see McGwire as a power hitter that took enhancers... while Bonds was more of a complete player.

I think that voters will say "Bonds would have been good enough without steriods" (and possibly Clemens) but will hammer other guys (McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, etc), saying they wouldn't have. However, there's no way of really knowing for any of them.

SI

[jbergey22]

Im not sure what Griffey would regret. The only thing he did wrong was get injured.

Bonds on the other hand I could make a huge list of things.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Chris Webber

I like C-Web, but it was his other terrible decision that brought an entire program to its knees. 1000x worse then the TO.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think that voters will say "Bonds would have been good enough without steriods" (and possibly Clemens) but will hammer other guys (McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, etc), saying they wouldn't have. However, there's no way of really knowing for any of them.

SI

That's kind of what I think should happen. But I think there are enough self righteous sports writers, who enjoy being the story (rather than reporting it), to drag it out for a number of years.

[Tigercat]

The way baseball chooses to ignore what happens on the field, and in some case contemplates wiping on the field performance from history, I wonder if they shouldn't just go all out with the beauty contest. Sure you can win the World Series and get that trophy, but at the end of the year the purists will vote on the team that best represents the history of the game. That will be your real MLB champions.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Im not sure what Griffey would regret. The only thing he did wrong was get injured.

Bonds on the other hand I could make a huge list of things.

Didn't read the article but Jr. was a prima donna for much of his early career. He may regret not enjoying the game as much as he could have.

Pure speculation though.


As for Bonds, he has shown that he could care less about anything but himself. Even if he doesn't make it into the HoF for what he did; he will never regret his own decisions and instead see himself as a martyr. He is a lying, cheating asshole and he deserves to go to his grave never having the honor of being inducted to the HoF.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

The way baseball chooses to ignore what happens on the field, and in some case contemplates wiping on the field performance from history, I wonder if they shouldn't just go all out with the beauty contest. Sure you can win the World Series and get that trophy, but at the end of the year the purists will vote on the team that best represents the history of the game. That will be your real MLB champions.

Ignores what happens on the field?

[larrymcg421]

I think the one thing that might save Bonds is that all evidence points to him not starting using until the late 90s. Even if he retired before he ever started using, he probably would've gone into the Hall anyways.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

The way baseball chooses to ignore what happens on the field, and in some case contemplates wiping on the field performance from history, I wonder if they shouldn't just go all out with the beauty contest. Sure you can win the World Series and get that trophy, but at the end of the year the purists will vote on the team that best represents the history of the game. That will be your real MLB champions.

Huh? I think you have them confused with BCS: News, highlights and insights into the Bowl Championship Series

SI

[Carrot Top]

Me, I should have never gone under the knife.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Dutch

He thinks that taking Steroids illegally is cheating? What a moron!

most shit taken.. is not in fact illegal. HGH is perfectly legal, anything is legal in the dominican... so you. frank is a moron.

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

i went with trout. griffey seems pretty at peace with himself and i don't think bonds is capable of that emotion.

This. Bonds would have to accept some portion of responsibility for his decisions in order to feel regret.

[miked]

One of my dad's buddies is a sportswriter...said he didn't vote for Big Mac because of the .263 average, crappy defense, and the fact that he had 1600 career hits. Even though 583 of them were HR.

He also said he probably wouldn't vote Biggio because he was never "dominant" or "feared" (whatever that means), and merely got 3000 hits by playing a long time. Whatever.

No way they keep Bonds (or Clemens probably) out.

[JediKooter]

The writers have long memories and I'm sure a lot of them remember how Bonds treated the media, plus him just being a dick, plus him being juiced, plus his pending federal trial. He will probably eventually get in, but, I would be surprised if he makes it in before the 5th time he's illegible. I see Griffy getting in before Bonds.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by miked

One of my dad's buddies is a sportswriter...said he didn't vote for Big Mac because of the .263 average, crappy defense, and the fact that he had 1600 career hits. Even though 583 of them were HR.

He also said he probably wouldn't vote Biggio because he was never "dominant" or "feared" (whatever that means), and merely got 3000 hits by playing a long time. Whatever.

No way they keep Bonds (or Clemens probably) out.

Curious...did he ever mention why guys like Tom Seaver, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, etc. do not get 100% votes?

I mean...it isn't like these are public polls where you expect a certain % of asshat votes. You kind of expect there to be some degree of unanimity amongst baseball people as to who are the greats...yet nobody ever gets 100%.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Ignores what happens on the field?

You hit the most HRs, you should be in the hall of fame. You collect the most hits, you are in the hall of fame. It is called the hall of fame, most famous players that are known for their feats on the field. It isn't the "hall of guys who played baseball the way "we" wanted it to be played." Go figure how we have Cobb and spitballers in there.

To absolutely choose to have the hall of fame be a beauty contest is like choosing to have a BCS system when you have the means to do things in a straightforward (and correct) way. But the moment Rose was left out, hell the moment Shoeless was left out, that is what we got. Leaving Bonds out just makes it worse.