He said what?!?

Eaglesfan27 · 02-26-2010, 05:31 PM

Today at the clinic, I was seeing this 14 year old girl who just had been placed with her father because she was repeatedly sexually abused by her mother's BF from the ages of 11 to 13. The mother and her boyfriend were both jailed for this. She had just been placed in her father's custody and he had already missed 2 appointments, and I had him reported to OCS because the referral from her school indicated this girl was in serious trouble (understandably so with what she had been through) and was a very high risk for suicide, plus she had both PTSD symptoms and psychotic symptoms. So, I guess with OCS pushing him, he finally brought her for her appointment today.

Everything was going completely normally, until I got to the part about treatment at the end of the appointment. I recommended medication and intensive therapy. He said, "I didn't understand anything you said about the medicine (I always break down potential side effects in simple to understand terms), but if you think it will help her that is straight. But, I don't want her getting no therapy, she isn't going to talk about her problems to you white devils." I think that is the first time in several years that I was left speechless by something a parent or a patient said. I'm not naive, I know racism is present here like it is everywhere to an extent, but I haven't seen such overt racism in a long time.

Lathum · 02-26-2010, 05:35 PM

CrimsonFox · 02-26-2010, 05:38 PM

Two questions.
1. YOu're a doctor? I know it should be obvious, but neat.
2. Aren't you not allowed to talk about cases? NOt busting your balls just curious

digamma · 02-26-2010, 05:39 PM

Did you wear your lab coat with a hood again EF27?

Eaglesfan27 · 02-26-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Two questions.
1. YOu're a doctor? I know it should be obvious, but neat.
2. Aren't you not allowed to talk about cases? NOt busting your balls just curious

1. Yes, I'm an adult, child, and adolescent psychiatrist.

2. I'm not allowed to talk about cases in a way that violates someone's privacy. I spoke in such generalities that I'm (sadly) confident no one on here (or anywhere else) could identify who I was specifically talking about as this type of stuff (the abuse) happens much too often in this country.

Honolulu_Blue · 02-26-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma

Did you wear your lab coat with a hood again EF27?

He was probably dressed up like this guy again:

CrimsonFox · 02-26-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

1. Yes, I'm an adult, child, and adolescent psychiatrist.

2. I'm not allowed to talk about cases in a way that violates someone's privacy. I spoke in such generalities that I'm (sadly) confident no one on here (or anywhere else) could identify who I was specifically talking about as this type of stuff (the abuse) happens much too often in this country.

1. THen your services would definitely be useful for several people on here

2. True it was general. Man A, Daughter A.

molson · 02-26-2010, 06:07 PM

So what do you say in response to that?

Schmidty · 02-26-2010, 06:07 PM

NOT EF27:

molson · 02-26-2010, 06:13 PM

I'm always amazed at frequency of the "mother faciliates abuse of her children by new boyfriend" angle - I saw that one all the time when I was a prosecutor.

It's just so sad. You know the best chance for these kids is if the parents die, and they end up with a more stable grandparent, or a foster home.

Eaglesfan27 · 02-26-2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

So what do you say in response to that?

There was about 2-3 minutes of silence, I think he was surprised he said that out loud. I gathered myself, and then I reminded him of our crisis phone number and the crisis plan, I reiterated that I was very concerned about his daughter's well being, and then I told him that I just wanted to help his daughter and I really thought therapy would be very important for her to do well. I asked him to please think about it. His daughter asked him to please think about it. He said he would think about it and that was the end of the appointment.

Rizon · 02-26-2010, 06:42 PM

I got a job as an accountant in the hood several years ago. Some black dude came up to me and told me I was stealing jobs from black people. Oh, the things I wanted to say ...

JediKooter · 02-26-2010, 06:46 PM

Eaglesfan is the grand wizard psychiatrist at the clinic he works at. You guys didn't know that? He goes by the name of Dr. David Duke.

Just busting your chops EF27. That has got to be one of the craziest things I would ever expect a parent to say. Is there a doctor you can refer them to that would be more acceptable to the dad? All things considered, it's all about the girl getting help (you know that of course) and maybe having to go that route will get this girl the help she needs.

Eaglesfan27 · 02-26-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Eaglesfan is the grand wizard psychiatrist at the clinic he works at. You guys didn't know that? He goes by the name of Dr. David Duke.

Just busting your chops EF27. That has got to be one of the craziest things I would ever expect a parent to say. Is there a doctor you can refer them to that would be more acceptable to the dad? All things considered, it's all about the girl getting help (you know that of course) and maybe having to go that route will get this girl the help she needs.

All 3 child psychiatrists at the clinic are white and we are the only free care clinic in a 75 mile radius. There is one other psychiatrist in town who does accept medicaid, but that doctor is not very good, and her office doesn't do therapy (and she is Indian.) We have about a half dozen black therapists (social workers), however, this girl has such complex issues that it would be best if she saw one of our psychologists or one of the more experienced social workers for her therapy. Unfortunately, all of them are white.

JonInMiddleGA · 02-26-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

All 3 child psychiatrists at the clinic are white and we are the only free care clinic in a 75 mile radius. There is one other psychiatrist in town who does accept medicaid, but that doctor is not very good, and her office doesn't do therapy. We have about a half dozen black therapists (social workers), however, this girl has such complex issues that it would be best if she saw one of our psychologists or one of the more experienced social workers for her therapy. Unfortunately, all of them are white.

All of that aside, would it even be within policy and/or legal to refer on the basis
of race? Good intentions aside, my first reaction was that would almost have to be illegal.

Eaglesfan27 · 02-26-2010, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

All of that aside, would it even be within policy and/or legal to refer on the basis
of race? Good intentions aside, my first reaction was that would almost have to be illegal.

Good point. I never really considered the issue before today as it has never come up in this way. I had patients express some discomfort with a therapist or me, but it has never explicitly been about race. People complain about wanting a woman instead of a man, vice-versa, or they want someone older, etc.

JediKooter · 02-26-2010, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

All 3 child psychiatrists at the clinic are white and we are the only free care clinic in a 75 mile radius. There is one other psychiatrist in town who does accept medicaid, but that doctor is not very good, and her office doesn't do therapy (and she is Indian.) We have about a half dozen black therapists (social workers), however, this girl has such complex issues that it would be best if she saw one of our psychologists or one of the more experienced social workers for her therapy. Unfortunately, all of them are white.

Oh man. That definitely limits their options then. Wow, I hope she gets the help she needs and her dad can get past the race issue for his daughters sake.

terpkristin · 02-26-2010, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF27

His daughter asked him to please think about it. He said he would think about it and that was the end of the appointment.

I think it's really interesting his daughter asked him to think about it. Do you think she's actually looking forward to getting help dealing with what sounds like some major issues?

Sounds like a tough situation all around, but you're too professional to have handled it any differently than you did. Crazy.

Edit: I meant that as a compliment, I think you handled it amazingly well.
/tk

Eaglesfan27 · 02-26-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terpkristin

I think it's really interesting his daughter asked him to think about it. Do you think she's actually looking forward to getting help dealing with what sounds like some major issues?

Sounds like a tough situation all around, but you're too professional to have handled it any differently than you did. Crazy.

/tk

I know she desperately wants help. I talked to her alone for about 30 minutes today (in retrospect, I'm surprised her dad let me) and she knows that she needs help soon. That is a big part of why it is bugging me tonight and is hard for me to let go.

Greyroofoo · 02-26-2010, 07:56 PM

I think thats crazy and I even just got out of a psych ward!

(Not joking, notice how I had no posts between mid november to mid January. I even lean libertarian)

CrimsonFox · 02-26-2010, 08:30 PM

I just realized you aren't the Eaglefan from the werewolf forum. Geez how many fans of the Eagles could there BE?!?

Lathum · 02-26-2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I just realized you aren't the Eaglefan from the werewolf forum. Geez how many fans of the Eagles could there BE?!?

2 to many

GrantDawg · 02-26-2010, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

All of that aside, would it even be within policy and/or legal to refer on the basis
of race? Good intentions aside, my first reaction was that would almost have to be illegal.

I think it is legal when it is from a patients (or customer's) request. Businesses (or in this case government agencies) can't discriminate, but customers can all they want.

cuervo72 · 02-26-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

2 to many

Shouldn't you be watching Charlie Sheen or something?

JonInMiddleGA · 02-26-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think it is legal when it is from a patients (or customer's) request. Businesses (or in this case government agencies) can't discriminate, but customers can all they want.

Hmm ... I simply pictured the same scene with a white patient telling a non-white government funded doctor they wanted to be referred to a white doctor instead. It'd take you three days to revive me from shock if that would fly.

GrantDawg · 02-26-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hmm ... I simply pictured the same scene with a white patient telling a non-white government funded doctor they wanted to be referred to a white doctor instead. It'd take you three days to revive me from shock if that would fly.

My guess it would, though. I can guarantee that happens every day. I deal with the public all day, and it does not shock me at all what people will just openly say without hesitation. And then there are those you have to read between the lines to figure out they are trying to hide their racism.

JonInMiddleGA · 02-26-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

My guess it would, though.

I guess I didn't realize you had moved to another country, my bad, I thought you were still in the US. But any more would sidetrack an otherwise interesting thread, we'll just disagree on the likely outcome and move along I guess. (unless EF happens to get a clarification at some point that he'd be willing to share)

spleen1015 · 02-26-2010, 09:00 PM

I quit a job in HS because a black woman asked for her money back when she saw me, 'Honky boy' making her food.

cartman · 02-26-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I guess I didn't realize you had moved to another country, my bad, I thought you were still in the US. But any more would sidetrack an otherwise interesting thread, we'll just disagree on the likely outcome and move along I guess. (unless EF happens to get a clarification at some point that he'd be willing to share)

You honestly don't think that people publicly complaining that they have a black guy as president have any qualms about complaining they have a black guy as their doctor? And if you are any indication, they don't give a flying fuck either if someone has a problem with it.

GrantDawg · 02-26-2010, 09:04 PM

And the more I thought about this, I could even see a situation where I would openly request a doctor change. I have changed mine and my child's doctor before because of having an Indian doctor. Not because of racism, but because I absolutely can not understand a thick Indian accent. They may be the best doctor in the world, but if I can't communicate completely with them, I do not want them.

Understand, though, that it would be the same with a doctor that has any kind of strong accent. It is my short coming, but I have a hard time with some accents. Health issues are too important to risk a miss-communication if I can help it.

(Sorry for the thread jack)

JonInMiddleGA · 02-26-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

You honestly don't think that people publicly complaining that they have a black guy as president have any qualms about complaining they have a black guy as their doctor? And if you are any indication, they don't give a flying fuck either if someone has a problem with it.

Did we have a disconnect here somewhere?

I'm not talking about whether it (the request) would happen, I'm talking about whether the request could be legally honored on those grounds (in a case involving the spending of government funds) because of the myriad of anti-discrimination laws. That was what I had questioned earlier (and even had our resident doctor agreeing that it was an interesting point).

Meanwhile on GD's Indian doctor thing, I have the same problem. I have no problem with the accent of the Pakistani immigrant who was my last regular GP but my wife couldn't make out one word he said out of three. I on the other hand can't decipher a lot of Indian accents but she has no problem with those at all. We've ended up going to the doctor with each other at times just to make sure we don't miss something important.

cartman · 02-26-2010, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Did we have a disconnect here somewhere?

No disconnect. You are the one that had always said if you feel strongly about something, don't go back on your words.

JonInMiddleGA · 02-26-2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

No disconnect. You are the one that had always said if you feel strongly about something, don't go back on your words.

Again, huh?

Who asked anybody to retract anything? Or where has anyone retracted anything? Or anything to do with anyone going back on any words?

-- Dude said what he said to EF.
-- Someone mentioned the possibility of referring the patient to a doctor of a race more acceptable to the patient's dad.
-- I wondered aloud whether, even if it were with the best interest of the patient in mind, whether it would even be legal to make a referral with race as a criteria
-- GDawg said he figured it would, I disagreed and did so fairly gently frankly

And then you've posted twice leaving me wondering both times whether you're talking about an entirely different thread or subject or ... well, damned if I know.

If me wondering about whether the referral would be legal because it would seem to amount to the state allowing a recipient to dictate the race of the service provider is somehow setting off some kind of Jon-is-racist thing, then why not just troll every post I make with it instead of picking on a completely legitimate question given that

a) the possibility was raised by someone else, my subsequent reply was part question & part possible answer as to why it couldn't be done

b) was acknowledged as being relevant by the provider in question who deals with all sorts of government rules & regs on a regular basis

c) I'm aware of various ways anyone, of any race/religion/sex/national origin/ creed/eye color/handedness/preference in sitcoms, might try to work around such regulations with even the slightest bit of subtlety but when it was an overt as this was then my strong suspicion would be that they actually tied their hands with regard to getting what they wanted. Where there's anything wrong with that belief not only escapes me completely but frankly would seem likely to escape most rational people as well. Damned if I see where there's even anything remotely controversial about wondering how the regulations/guidelines/procedures/laws would handle it.

Eaglesfan27, sorry this got sidetracked somehow. I sure as hell didn't intend or expect it to.

Rizon · 02-26-2010, 09:39 PM

JonInMiddleGA · 02-26-2010, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizon

You'll probably have to finish that with some curling recaps or something, as I'm bewildered enough by the last few bizarro exchanges that it seems like a good time for some XBox 360.

cartman · 02-26-2010, 09:42 PM

I never said you were a racist. Only that you are a huge proponent of not backing down from stances you feel strongly about.

There are folks out there who are upset a black man is president. I'm not saying you share that belief. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't be surprised if people that hold that belief would be upset if a black man is their doctor, regulations/guidelines/procedures/laws be damned.

stevew · 02-26-2010, 09:48 PM

I wonder if the Fry Guys refer to Grimace as the "Purple Devil" behind his back.

Lathum · 02-26-2010, 09:58 PM

I don't think it's the fact the guy didn't want a white doctor but the way he said it. If he said he would prefer a black doctor because he thinks his daughter would connect better it would be a non issue. But what he said is as racist a thing as you can say.

JonInMiddleGA · 02-26-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

What I'm saying is that you shouldn't be surprised if people that hold that belief would be upset if a black man is their doctor, regulations/guidelines/procedures/laws be damned.

I'm not. And don't think I ever said I was.

They're free to be upset -- White guy, black guy, atheist, Hindu, whatever -- ask for whatever they want however they want to ask (or demand or whatever) for it. But doing so, as the guy did to EF today, might end up being a case of cutting off their nose to spite their face. Come up with some reasoning that's plausibly deniable & you might get the change made. Make it impossible to be anything other than race & the law is probably going to prevent a lot of government agencies from granting that request on various grounds relating to discrimination.

Pumpy Tudors · 02-26-2010, 10:13 PM

I didn't know anybody said "white devils" seriously anymore. If you're going to say something stupid and racist, at least be more creative. We ain't never gonna make it.

spleen1015 · 02-26-2010, 10:17 PM

Maybe it was a white guy that harmed his daughter and that's why he thinks EF is the devil.

Eaglesfan27 · 02-26-2010, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I didn't know anybody said "white devils" seriously anymore. If you're going to say something stupid and racist, at least be more creative. We ain't never gonna make it.

Yeah, that was part of what surprised me. And this guy wasn't old at all.

Lathum · 02-26-2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Maybe it was a white guy that harmed his daughter and that's why he thinks EF is the devil.

If he was that concerned about who harmed his daughter he wouldn't have had to have CPS force him to bring his daughter in.

Lathum · 02-26-2010, 10:22 PM

I caught a black kid stealing in my dads store once and he got so pissed at me, he was yelling at me, calling me a cracker and saying his brothers were going to kick my honkey ass. It can be very disconcerting and really throw you off.

EagleFan · 02-26-2010, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I just realized you aren't the Eaglefan from the werewolf forum. Geez how many fans of the Eagles could there BE?!?

Nope, not I. 27 is the one with the big post count... I think it's overcompensation...

Seriously though, 27 is the one of us who actually does something positive. What I do is far from that.

Hmm, didn't mean that to sound like I was a mobster or something along that line.

I think 27 used to play WW prior to when I started. Probably why I got accused of playing differently than I normally do during my first game that I ever played.

Mustang · 02-27-2010, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think that is the first time in several years that I was left speechless by something a parent or a patient said.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I want to hear about what was said the last time he was left speechless.

saldana · 02-28-2010, 08:38 PM

THANK YOU MUSTANG...i cant believe this thread went 46 posts with out some sort of

EaglesFan27 = E quetzu ocha!!!!!!

JediKooter · 02-28-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Hmm, didn't mean that to sound like I was a mobster or something along that line.

Well, you are from Jersey...

flere-imsaho · 03-01-2010, 08:22 AM

That's crazy, EF27. I hope her Dad sees sense and lets her get the help she needs (and wants!).

02-26-2010, 05:35 PM	#2
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Sad.

02-26-2010, 06:07 PM	#9
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	NOT EF27: __________________ Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross

02-26-2010, 06:13 PM	#10
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I'm always amazed at frequency of the "mother faciliates abuse of her children by new boyfriend" angle - I saw that one all the time when I was a prosecutor. It's just so sad. You know the best chance for these kids is if the parents die, and they end up with a more stable grandparent, or a foster home. Last edited by molson : 02-26-2010 at 06:13 PM.

02-26-2010, 06:46 PM	#13
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	Eaglesfan is the grand wizard psychiatrist at the clinic he works at. You guys didn't know that? He goes by the name of Dr. David Duke. Just busting your chops EF27. That has got to be one of the craziest things I would ever expect a parent to say. Is there a doctor you can refer them to that would be more acceptable to the dad? All things considered, it's all about the girl getting help (you know that of course) and maybe having to go that route will get this girl the help she needs. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

02-26-2010, 09:00 PM	#28
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	I quit a job in HS because a black woman asked for her money back when she saw me, 'Honky boy' making her food. __________________ Why choose failure when success is an option? Last edited by spleen1015 : 02-26-2010 at 09:01 PM.

02-26-2010, 05:38 PM	#3
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	Two questions. 1. YOu're a doctor? I know it should be obvious, but neat. 2. Aren't you not allowed to talk about cases? NOt busting your balls just curious

02-26-2010, 05:39 PM	#4
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	Did you wear your lab coat with a hood again EF27?

02-26-2010, 07:56 PM	#20
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	I think thats crazy and I even just got out of a psych ward! (Not joking, notice how I had no posts between mid november to mid January. I even lean libertarian)

02-26-2010, 08:30 PM	#21
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	I just realized you aren't the Eaglefan from the werewolf forum. Geez how many fans of the Eagles could there BE?!?

02-26-2010, 09:04 PM	#30
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	And the more I thought about this, I could even see a situation where I would openly request a doctor change. I have changed mine and my child's doctor before because of having an Indian doctor. Not because of racism, but because I absolutely can not understand a thick Indian accent. They may be the best doctor in the world, but if I can't communicate completely with them, I do not want them. Understand, though, that it would be the same with a doctor that has any kind of strong accent. It is my short coming, but I have a hard time with some accents. Health issues are too important to risk a miss-communication if I can help it. (Sorry for the thread jack)

02-26-2010, 09:42 PM	#36
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	I never said you were a racist. Only that you are a huge proponent of not backing down from stances you feel strongly about. There are folks out there who are upset a black man is president. I'm not saying you share that belief. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't be surprised if people that hold that belief would be upset if a black man is their doctor, regulations/guidelines/procedures/laws be damned. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

02-26-2010, 09:48 PM	#37
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I wonder if the Fry Guys refer to Grimace as the "Purple Devil" behind his back.

02-26-2010, 09:58 PM	#38
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I don't think it's the fact the guy didn't want a white doctor but the way he said it. If he said he would prefer a black doctor because he thinks his daughter would connect better it would be a non issue. But what he said is as racist a thing as you can say.

02-26-2010, 10:13 PM	#40
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I didn't know anybody said "white devils" seriously anymore. If you're going to say something stupid and racist, at least be more creative. We ain't never gonna make it. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

02-26-2010, 10:17 PM	#41
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Maybe it was a white guy that harmed his daughter and that's why he thinks EF is the devil. __________________ Why choose failure when success is an option?

02-26-2010, 10:22 PM	#44
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I caught a black kid stealing in my dads store once and he got so pissed at me, he was yelling at me, calling me a cracker and saying his brothers were going to kick my honkey ass. It can be very disconcerting and really throw you off.

02-28-2010, 08:38 PM	#47
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	THANK YOU MUSTANG...i cant believe this thread went 46 posts with out some sort of EaglesFan27 = E quetzu ocha!!!!!!

03-01-2010, 08:22 AM	#49
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	That's crazy, EF27. I hope her Dad sees sense and lets her get the help she needs (and wants!).

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