panerd vs xm radio (Ping:Lawyers)

[panerd]

This is purely a philosophical stand so if I have no basis at all let me know and I will just eat the $35. However I am willing to put hours of my own time into this one just because I know that I am right.

Here is the situation. I joined XM last September and while I was on the phone couldn't find my wallet so I went and grabbed an old credit card that I hadn't used in forever. The guy who set-up the account seemed sketchy (of course this is hindsight) asking for information such as the code on the back of the card, etc. Anyways a few days later there are all sorts of stolen merchandise charges on my card. (Which Bank of America actually took care of no problem)

So I call XM back up and explain the situation and of course it must have been something else but it wasn't anyone on their end. So I request that I get any future bills by mail and refuse to give them a new credit card and the person says they can't do this. (This seems sketchy as well? I can do business via check with just about every other industry) So I ask for my money back (including my $15 radio set-up) Of course they won't do that either. So I request that when the billing period runs out in December that they cancel my account, the rep agrees.

Fast forward to December when the account should have ended and doesn't. I decide not to call because I figure this is their mistake. (This part could be where I lose any possibility of having an argument since I did listen to the radio for the next couple months) I figure I have free XM so maybe the stolen card was a blessing in disguise.

So a few weeks ago my service finally ends and the phone calls start. We are talking at least 2-3 a day sometimes 4-5. So tonight I call them up and explain everything I just said above (even being nice because I know the customer service rep has nothing to do with any of this) and ask them to quit calling. Not only am I told no but I am told that I am a liar and then both a rep and her supervisor refuse to give me any information about their names saying only that it will be turned over to a collection agent.


So do I have a case vs XM in small claims court where I sue for the $35 + some amount for being harassed daily on the phone? Are there any avenues (besides paying) that will get them to quit calling me? Any key words I can say that the phone reps are told not to pursue? My guess is I have nothing to go on but after dealing with horrible Sirius customer service I would love to tell Sirius XM to kiss my ass. I know it's $35 and not $200+ but they fucked up, not me.

(What exactly is the worst that can happen with a collection agency, besides phone calls and letters? Will a $35 lien really effect something important down the road?)

[molson]

You can research the telephone harassment stuff, there was a thread here about a guy who actually made a living baiting these people into saying the wrong thing. I don't know if it would be worth your time.

I amazed the people on the phone that take your credit card info don't steal it more often. It's better now with the internet, but still, so many of these low-paid customer service people have access to all kinds of info.

And I think paying the $35 is a better option than getting anything to a collection agency. I think that would be a pretty serious ding against your credit.

If it was me, I'd write them a letter, pay the $35, never do business with them again, and move on. Sometimes those letters are noticed, and you just might end up with your $35/back, or some kind of free service deal.

[stevew]

I signed up with those fuckers once. I understood that I had to pay 3months up front. I requested to the CSR that I wanted to be billed monthy after that. She said it wouldn't be a problem. And that they would take 17.xx out on the 11th of every month.

Fast forward three months and sure enough I get billed for 3months. My checking account was getting tight at the time. Thankfully nothing bounced. I cancelled soon thereafter.

[molson]

It's really a crapshoot - I csncelled Sirius over the phone a while ago, I was prepared for an epic test of will and courage, and I was done in about 5 minutes. I actually signed up again since then, which I never would have done if they were assholes during the cancellation. I hate the phone cancellation bullshit.

I wonder if there was some customer service issues around the merger?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

You can research the telephone harassment stuff, there was a thread here about a guy who actually made a living baiting these people into saying the wrong thing. I don't know if it would be worth your time.

I amazed the people on the phone that take your credit card info don't steal it more often. It's better now with the internet, but still, so many of these low-paid customer service people have access to all kinds of info.

And I think paying the $35 is a better option than getting anything to a collection agency. I think that would be a pretty serious ding against your credit.

If it was me, I'd write them a letter, pay the $35, never do business with them again, and move on. Sometimes those letters are noticed, and you just might end up with your $35/back, or some kind of free service deal.

You are probably right. Tonight I will probably end up having more than $35 at stake on some Big West college game or some West Coast NBA team I know nothing about. But it just pisses me off when I did nothing wrong and someone on their end is clearly the only person who would have stolen that information. The reason I ask about small claims is that if I could actually get the case to go through I would feel good knowing they probably are paying some lawyer $200+ an hour to handle coming to court. (Maybe a little childish)

I guess the letter is the more mature option along with a check but then I will never know if anyone actually even read the letter.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

It's really a crapshoot - I csncelled Sirius over the phone a while ago, I was prepared for an epic test of will and courage, and I was done in about 5 minutes. I actually signed up again since then, which I never would have done if they were assholes during the cancellation. I hate the phone cancellation bullshit.

I wonder if there was some customer service issues around the merger?

I had Sirius for years before buying a new car that was xm radio. It was a huge pain in the ass (seriously 45+ mins on hold, after hanging up a couple times at the 20 min mark) to cancel. I sort of understand, obviously you want more people handling the sign-ups than you do the cancellations but I was actually just moving my account to their new "sister" corpporation. Not good times!

[stevew]

Netflix is one of the few companies that is easy to cancel. Everyone else wants to make you do a commando raid(-dilbert) on their corporate office to end a subscription. I guess I understand it, but it still pisses me off. That and auto-renews. I will give amazon credit too, cause they let you choose to not extend your prime subscription in the control panel.

[Marc Vaughan]

I had Sirius on my wifes car and quite liked the radio but after we sold the car we obviously didn't need it - they 'cancelled' and then took another months money and it wasn't until I got shirty with them that they properly stopped the payments.

(but thats NOTHING compared to the 'Curves' membership my wife had, the local gym literally closed leaving us with no where to go to but despite this it took a huge amount of phone calls and complaining to get the account cancelled)

[GoldenEagle]

I send XM a check once a year.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I send XM a check once a year.

Well that makes me even more pissed! Seriously this company is either really low brow or they allow some of their employees to take liberties they shouldn't. I swear the woman I talked to said I had to have an active credit card or debit card on the account. Fuck XM if that is the case.

[Toddzilla]

I used to have 4 subs - 1 each in my car and my wife's car and we each had an Inno. The Inno novelty wore off so I cancelled those subs. The phone calls started in earnest the next day. After a week I told them that if I get one more call I'm going to cancel my 2 remaining subs.

Never got a call again.

[DaddyTorgo]

how much is a monthly charge for sirius?

[panerd]

I think like $11 something but they make you pay in sets of three months at a time or more.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaah okay.

my new car has sirius and i'm curious to see if i'll like it for what i'd have to pay.

thanks.

[stevew]

Channel 98 is awesome. I have siruis in my rental. Some wacky Canadian sports show where they cuss a lot and talk about degenerate gambling.

[panerd]

Actually it looks like it's 12.95 a month. I am 50/50 on recommending it. I didn't want to get rid of xm because of the music and programs but got pissed and got rid of it because of the service. I never felt like I was wasting $12 a month when I had service. But they have really pissed me off with these calls

[DaddyTorgo]

i don't listen to a ton of music frankly, so i'm doubting it'll be worth it after the 3 month trial is up, but it'll be nice to have the option i suppose

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by stevew

Channel 98 is awesome. I have siruis in my rental. Some wacky Canadian sports show where they cuss a lot and talk about degenerate gambling.

http://hardcoresportsradio.com/

lol, the TV channel associated with this is pretty good too, I enjoy it.

[stevew]

One of the guys the other day was talking about how everyone always thinks Magic Johnson is a good businessman. But he pitches companies like Rent-A-Center. Quite possibly making him the face of predatory lending in the USA. I lol'd.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i don't listen to a ton of music frankly, so i'm doubting it'll be worth it after the 3 month trial is up, but it'll be nice to have the option i suppose

Then, seriously, you should not even turn it on. They will not activate the trial without getting a credit card number.

And, as you can read a few times here, they do not actually process cancellations. You call, cancel, they will tell you that it will be processed when your current subscription is up, and then on that date, they will bill you again and tell you they have no record that you tried to cancel. I've had this happen 3 times.

[DaddyTorgo]

Sounds good samdari. i'll prolly just not even turn it on then.

[albionmoonlight]

panerd:

Certainly no harm in doing this (I am assuming that your St. Louis location is still valid): Consumer Complaints

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

And this isn't legal advice, but if you do write them another letter, then you may want to cc their legal department and note that you are reserving the right to bring a civil suit for unfair and deceptive trade practices under Missouri Revised Statutes Section 407.025.

Anything to make yourself seem annoying enough to be more trouble than the $35 is worth.

[Kodos]

Civil action to recover damages--class actions authorized, when--procedure.

407.025. 1. Any person who purchases or leases merchandise primarily for personal, family or household purposes and thereby suffers an ascertainable loss of money or property, real or personal, as a result of the use or employment by another person of a method, act or practice declared unlawful by section 407.020, may bring a private civil action in either the circuit court of the county in which the seller or lessor resides or in which the transaction complained of took place, to recover actual damages. The court may, in its discretion, award punitive damages and may award to the prevailing party attorney's fees, based on the amount of time reasonably expended, and may provide such equitable relief as it deems necessary or proper.

2. Persons entitled to bring an action pursuant to subsection 1 of this section may, if the unlawful method, act or practice has caused similar injury to numerous other persons, institute an action as representative or representatives of a class against one or more defendants as representatives of a class, and the petition shall allege such facts as will show that these persons or the named defendants specifically named and served with process have been fairly chosen and adequately and fairly represent the whole class, to recover damages as provided for in subsection 1 of this section. The plaintiff shall be required to prove such allegations, unless all of the members of the class have entered their appearance, and it shall not be sufficient to prove such facts by the admission or admissions of the defendants who have entered their appearance. In any action brought pursuant to this section, the court may in its discretion order, in addition to damages, injunction or other equitable relief and reasonable attorney's fees.

3. An action may be maintained as a class action in a manner consistent with Rule 23 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and Missouri rule of civil procedure 52.08 to the extent such state rule is not inconsistent with the federal rule if:

(1) The class is so numerous that joinder of all members is impracticable;

(2) There are questions of law or fact common to the class;

(3) The claims or defenses of the representative parties are typical of the claims or defenses of the class; and

(4) The representative parties will fairly and adequately protect the interests of the class; and, in addition

(5) The prosecution of separate action by or against individual members of the class would create a risk of:

(a) Inconsistent or varying adjudications with respect to individual members of the class which would establish incompatible standards of conduct for the party opposing the class; or

(b) Adjudications with respect to individual members of the class which would as a practical matter be dispositive of the interests of the other members not parties to the adjudications or substantially impair or impede their ability to protect their interests; or

(6) The party opposing the class has acted or refused to act on grounds generally applicable to the class, thereby making appropriate final injunctive relief or corresponding declaratory relief with respect to the class as a whole; or

(7) The court finds that the questions of law or fact common to the members of the class predominate over any questions affecting only individual members, and that a class action is superior to other available methods for the fair and efficient adjudication of the controversy. The matters pertinent to the findings include:

(a) The interest of members of the class in individually controlling the prosecution or defense of separate actions;

(b) The extent and nature of any litigation concerning the controversy already commenced by or against members of the class;

(c) The desirability or undesirability of concentrating the litigation of the claims in the particular forum;

(d) The difficulties likely to be encountered in the management of a class action.

4. (1) As soon as practicable after the commencement of an action brought as a class action, the court shall determine by order whether it is to be so maintained. An order pursuant to this subdivision may be conditional, and may be altered or amended before the decision on the merits.

(2) In any class action maintained pursuant to subdivision (7) of subsection 3 of this section, the court shall direct to the members of the class the best notice practicable under the circumstances, including individual notice to all members who can be identified through reasonable effort. The notice shall advise each member that:

(a) The court will exclude such member from the class if such member so requests by a specified date;

(b) The judgment, whether favorable or not, will include all members who do not request exclusion; and

(c) Any member who does request exclusion may, if such member desires, enter an appearance through such member's counsel.

(3) The judgment in an action maintained as a class action pursuant to subdivision (5) of subsection 3 of this section or subdivision (6) of subsection 3 of this section, whether or not favorable to the class, shall include and describe those whom the court finds to be members of the class. The judgment in an action maintained as a class action pursuant to subdivision (7) of subsection 3 of this section, whether or not favorable to the class, shall include and specify or describe those to whom the notice provided in subdivision (2) of this subsection was directed, and who have requested exclusion, and whom the court finds to be members of the class.

(4) When appropriate an action may be brought or maintained as a class action with respect to particular issues, or a class may be divided into subclasses and each subclass treated as a class, and the provisions of this section shall then be construed and applied accordingly.

5. In the conduct of actions to which this section applies, the court may make appropriate orders:

(1) Determining the course of proceedings or prescribing measures to prevent undue repetition or complication in the presentation of evidence or argument;

(2) Requiring, for the protection of the members of the class or otherwise for the fair conduct of the action, that notice be given in such manner as the court may direct to some or all of the members of any step in the action, or of the proposed extent of the judgment, or of the opportunity of members to signify whether they consider the representation fair and adequate, to intervene and present claims or defenses, or otherwise to come into the action;

(3) Imposing conditions on the representative parties or on intervenors;

(4) Requiring that the pleadings be amended to eliminate therefrom allegations as to representation of absent persons, and that the action proceed accordingly;

(5) Dealing with similar procedural matters.

6. A class action shall not be dismissed or compromised without the approval of the court, and notice of the proposed dismissal or compromise shall be given to all members of the class in such manner as the court directs.

7. Upon commencement of any action brought pursuant to subsection 1 of this section, the plaintiff or plaintiffs shall inform the clerk of the court in which such action is brought, on forms to be provided by such clerk, that the action is brought pursuant to this section. The clerk of the court shall forthwith inform the attorney general of the commencement of such action, together with a copy of the complaint or other initial pleading, and, upon entry of any judgment or decree in the action, the clerk shall mail a copy of such judgment or decree to the attorney general.

8. Any permanent injunction, judgment or order of the court made pursuant to section 407.100 shall be prima facie evidence in an action brought pursuant to* this section that the respondent used or employed a method, act or practice declared unlawful by section 407.020.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

panerd:

Certainly no harm in doing this (I am assuming that your St. Louis location is still valid): Consumer Complaints

Big thank you!!!

The collection agent was of no help whatsoever but I calmly called an XM number he finally gave me, mentioned unfair billing practices and the attorney general, and clearly explained what happened. I was refunded all the money I "owed" plus given 6 months free service to stay with them. That may be a huge mistake for the future when I want to cancel but I actually like the programming and will deal with that monster at some point down the line.

[panerd]

+ They told me they would send me paper bills and waive the $2 fee that they normally charge for sending paper bills.