Job search etiquette

[Doug5984]

So I'm pretty sure I'm going to start looking for a new job soon, and quite possibly one in a new city. The earliest I could leave my place is after April 15th (tax day- don't want to leave them hanging during the crunch) but I want to start sending out resumes now that it's within 2 months. The place I am at is great, I love working here- I just hate the work, it's not for me.

I don't want to tell my boss I'm looking because if I can't find anything I'd want to stay here. I don't want any possible new employers to call my current place for a reference while I'm still here so I'm a little unsure how all this works as this is my first real job.

Is there any type of job etiquette in this scenario, should I tell my boss my situation? Would I need to worry at all about possible employers calling my current place of employment before any formal / serious interviews? Is it scummy to take off of work for a few hours to interview for another spot?

Is anyone hiring accountants in New Orleans or Metairie?

[Airhog]

When I left my last job, I did not inform my boss for the same reasons. I put on the applications, not to call my boss. I took off from work to go on the interviews and meetings as well.

Here is the way I feel. Companies expect you to be loyal to them. However, they have no problem with not being loyal to you. So in my opinion I have every right to not have any more loyalty towards the company, than they have towards me. So I have no problems looking for another job while still employed, as long as I when I was taking time off I was using my vacation time, and not sick leave.

[Jughead Spock]

^ Word.

[Telle]

I use coworkers as references, not my boss. Ask a few you trust if they'll be references for you and ask them not to let anyone else know that you're currently looking.

[Doug5984]

Problem is- there are only 5 people in my office so it'd be impossible for anyone to be a reference, but I can use previous bosses.

I like the "please do not contact current employer" although I wonder if any employers would be put off by that. I guess I'd rather some be put off than jeopardize this job before I had something else lined up.

[GoldenEagle]

I wouldn't provide a list of references unless I was asked to. Then, you will know that the company is seriously interested and you can inform your boss then.

The job interview part is tricky. If you come dressed up one day and you usually don't, people start to get a sense that you might be leaving.

My company is hiring an accountant in Little Rock, if you are interested.

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I wouldn't provide a list of references unless I was asked to. Then, you will know that the company is seriously interested and you can inform your boss then.

The job interview part is tricky. If you come dressed up one day and you usually don't, people start to get a sense that you might be leaving.

My company is hiring an accountant in Little Rock, if you are interested.

I'd be interviewing in New Orleans, so a 2 hour drive- I'd have to run home and dress back down.

Little Rock is a little to far north for me- I'm staying south of I-10, its too cold up there.

[Samdari]

Nowhere I have ever worked has checked the references until I had gotten the job. Its a formality, rather than a qualitative decision maker.

Many companies have policies in place preventing anyone from commenting about quality of someone's work anyway.

Despite all that, last time I went with the "trusted coworker" as a current job reference as well. I honestly think these references are just to make sure you made one friend at each previous job, kind of a jackass filter.

[Peregrine]

As usual, with questions of etiquette I refer to the venerable Jack Handey:

"When you go in for a job interview, I think a good thing to ask is if they ever press charges."

[molson]

Ya, I've never put down "don't contact my current employer" and certainly nobody ever has. Usually that comes up at the interview. Nobody's checking references before they talk to you.

I usually have put "references available upon request" on my resume, just so I know exactly who's going to be calling them and approximately when.

And I don't think any employer expects loyalty beyond two weeks notice anymore - unless there was some kind of specific agreement otherwise. There's no need to tell your current boss anything, and there's no need to feel bad about sneaking away for interviews.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, I've never put down "don't contact my current employer" and certainly nobody ever has.

I have.

[terpkristin]

I don't put anything about references on my resume. If, when they talk to me, they want some, I'll provide them. I have not seen a resume (I do a bit of interviewing these days) come across my desk with any mention of references.

/tk

[sterlingice]

I've been told that my company cannot give references, even good ones, outside of the company. All they can verify is if I was employed and maybe, if someone asked the right way, maybe get an answer to a question like "If you were able to hire this person again, would you"?

And, like molson said, "References available upon request" seems to do the trick.

SI

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Doug5984

Is anyone hiring accountants in New Orleans or Metairie?

Want to manage my estate? Right now I have liquid assets that numbers well into the hundreds. Will pay in hubig pies and pineapple big shot soda.

(But really, good luck. I will have a new job around that time as well, hopefully in NO, because I don't want to have to move away again.)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Want to manage my estate? Right now I have liquid assets that numbers well into the hundreds. Will pay in hubig pies and pineapple big shot soda.

I miss Pineapple Big Shot.

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Want to manage my estate? Right now I have liquid assets that numbers well into the hundreds. Will pay in hubig pies and pineapple big shot soda.

(But really, good luck. I will have a new job around that time as well, hopefully in NO, because I don't want to have to move away again.)

the offer sounds tempting- but i'll have to pass. I re-did the resume, going to to make a few more changes tomorrow and start sending it out. I really hope I can find something out there I'd love to make that move.

[samifan24]

I'm bumping this old thread because I have a job search question.

I had a phone interview with a large company. I'd like to send a thank you note but I don't have the interviewer's last name or email address and I can't find their information on the company's website or LinkedIn profile. I do not want to call back and listen for her name on her voicemail message and risk having her answer the phone.

Is it appropriate to send an email or hard copy thank you note after a phone interview? If so, how should I do it since she didn't give me her last name and I only have a phone number for her?

[Logan]

Easy solution is to call from a random phone number, if she picks up, apologize for dialing the wrong number.

Or you can just send a thank you email to the general HR dept if you have that address, make a reference to what you know about the interviewer, and ask that they forward your thank you to her as she didn't provide a last name.

[DaddyTorgo]

How'd Doug's job-searching go anyways? Did I miss the resolution?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

Or you can just send a thank you email to the general HR dept if you have that address, make a reference to what you know about the interviewer, and ask that they forward your thank you to her as she didn't provide a last name.

This.

Or you could just call back and say "I'm sorry - I realized I didn't have a way to contact you and wanted to send you a thank you for our phone interview" if she answers. Nothing wrong with that.

I'd worry about sending a hard-copy thank you note to be honest. Or certainly you can send one, but send an email as well - or in the future tip people off that you'll be sending a hard-copy thank you.

We interviewed a new employee (who we ultimately ended up hiring) and we were really perplexed that she didn't send us an email thanking us for the first interview. Lo and behold, she had sent a hard copy thank you note to each of us, and we hadn't checked our mail for a couple days.

I think hard copy is great, really personal, but it can get lost in this day and age because it's not expected. So sure, send one, but clue the person in during the interview, something like: "just so you know, i'm a bit of a throwback, i like to send hard copy thank you notes" or something.

[Swaggs]

Just call after work hours?

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Just call after work hours?

Because I have to mail a note out today and it's too late to call now.

[Sgran]

Just wanted to note that I always check out references when interviewing. It's a lesson I've learned the hard way.

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

How'd Doug's job-searching go anyways? Did I miss the resolution?

Guess it's time for a little update. Work was a pain during tax season, but I survived another one- I didn't look too much during as I spent most my time working. I applied at a bank in another city (near my hunting camp) and have an interview tomorrow. I am pretty sure I am very over qualified, but my sister works at a main office in Mississippi and someone with HR there told her that they could match my current salary + benefits (which I don't have any now).

I'm going to go to the interview tomorrow and see what happens, I am also going to start looking at more possibilities around my current town. Just feel I'm at a job with not much room for promotion and I hate it- so it sucks because I love the office I'm at but am vastly underpaid.

[Doug5984]

The bank job never came through, didn't surprise me- from the interview I got the vibe they wanted someone with more actual banking experience for that position.

2 weeks ago one of my friends gave me a call- his uncle works at a good size company here, great company to work for. His uncle wanted me to send in a resume as they just had an opening and he knew I had graduated a couple years ago. (Long story here- my friends uncle used to work for my mom, once she retired the company I am applying for tried very hard to hire my mom, she passed but helped my friends uncle get a job there- so long story short, I have that going for me). They called today to set up an interview for Friday, I'm pumped. This would be huge for me. From everything I've heard about them it's a great company, great benefits, great advancement opportunities.

[DaddyTorgo]

Awesome!

[Doug5984]

Damn, just got the call- they went with someone else.

[EagleFan]

That sucks, sorry to hear.

On a lighter note, I started this thread from the top without seeing the original date. Saw the line that said "the earliers I could leave my current job is April 15th" and thought you were really starting to look awfully early. Pictured the following:

"You're hired"

"Great"

"How soon can you start?"

"8 months from now..."

[DaddyTorgo]

fucko

[JediKooter]

WTF? Sorry to hear that man.


On a lighter note: Are the Saints hiring?

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

WTF? Sorry to hear that man.


On a lighter note: Are the Saints hiring?

Ha, I wish- I'd do that for damn near free.

And I'm kinda bummed but oh well, I'll keep working where I'm at and looking to see whats out there- but I am glad I have that ability there are a lot of people out there with no job, no income and getting the same call I just got.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Doug5984

Ha, I wish- I'd do that for damn near free.

And I'm kinda bummed but oh well, I'll keep working where I'm at and looking to see whats out there- but I am glad I have that ability there are a lot of people out there with no job, no income and getting the same call I just got.

That would be a sweet gig.

That is true, very true. I'm sure something will come along, hopefully sooner rather than later.

[Lathum]

So to piggy back a little

I interviewed today for a position with a major restaurant chain as a field consultant working with franchisees doing evaluations, further training, etc...to improve sales, profits and such.

I killed the interview and am completely qualified and the job looks great. I informed the interviewers I was leaving for vacation starting tomorrow and they said wouldn't be a problem, they enjoyed meeting me, etc...

A few hours later they call me and want to know if I can do a second interview with a higher up tomorrow before my flight. The problem is we have a 7:10 AM flight. I told them that and she seemed disappointed.

Now I am taking it as a great sign they want me to come in before vacation, it gives me a sense perhaps they want to higher me, and need the approval of the higher up before they can.

I think I was able to work it out so we can do the interview over skype while I am on vacation, and really hope it works out. Just a little frustrating.

[CrimsonFox]

Don't worry about etiquette. You need to get a job. There is no etiquette. Etiquette went out the window when all these corporations and businesses decided they could lay people off that have worked for 15 years and hire some kid out of college or hire a roomful of people in india for less than minimum wage.

The thing is, you don't want to get fired. Don't say you're looking. If the interview people ask, say I am currently employed. This is very common to look elsewhere while you already have a job. In fact it is smart. Don't burn bridges.

Give them the specific number to call (a cell phone or home number). Ask if you can schedule interviews for particular times like in the evening or during lunch or before or after work. THis is for phone interviews. For in-person interviews, take off work if you need. Personal day or whatever. Can say it's a doctor's appointment or whatever.


If you get a job give your notice or whatever.

The new job will definitely ask why you want to leave. Be honest and positive. I want a better position with more opportunities in the areas I want to work on. Do not say "My job sucks. The people hear or horrible. My boss sucks. You should hear what they made me do. etc"

GOOD LUCK!

[tyketime]

Looks like I will be landing back in the job hunting market soon. The project I am currently working on wraps up in 2 months, and I am a consultant (not full-time). So I have a couple of questions:

1. I submitted my resume for a job I found online. There are no names or contact information for any sort of follow-up. The company shows the job still open and my status is still "applicant". It's tough not being able to discuss where they are in the hiring process. Also, the posting has been online and open for 30 days. Are companies taking longer to review and interview candidates? I am sure every opening gets swamped with applications, so I wasn't sure if this slowed the process or not.

2. My sister-in-law changed jobs last year. She told me that resume formats have changed. Instead of the regular chronological version I am used to, many companies prefer competency-based resumes. Have any of you heard anything similar? She let me borrow a book I'm reading thru right now to help me create a competency-based resume. Just wondering what any of you have encountered.

Thanks!

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by tyketime

2. My sister-in-law changed jobs last year. She told me that resume formats have changed. Instead of the regular chronological version I am used to, many companies prefer competency-based resumes. Have any of you heard anything similar? She let me borrow a book I'm reading thru right now to help me create a competency-based resume. Just wondering what any of you have encountered.

Thanks!

I have not heard of that at all. As a matter of fact, when I got laid off, they paid for us to go to a firm that specializes in job placement services. The basics regarding resumes was, chronological order of experience with a description of what you did for the last 15 years, with key terms and statements that show examples of how you helped improve things or the results you achieved. Any jobs after that 15 year mark is just listed in chronological order, but, without the descriptions. List relevant schooling/certifications, etc...No hobbies listed. Nothing saying you are married or single or have kids.

That's all I can remember at the moment.

Good luck in your search though!

[sterlingice]

Saying "HR often seems like an arbitrary black box and you can find 'experts' who will argue vehemently for both sides and half of them will the next day turn around and argue the opposite point" doesn't help much, does it?

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

i think it depends on what kind of field you're in tyke.

what do you do? that might help.

i know my father for example - works in software marketing/product development. he went the extra step the last time he was job-hunting (6 months or so ago?) and created a competency-based website. Got great feedback from employers. Ended up that he actually got a job through personal networking, but still has the website up his sleeve.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

That sucks, sorry to hear.

On a lighter note, I started this thread from the top without seeing the original date. Saw the line that said "the earliers I could leave my current job is April 15th" and thought you were really starting to look awfully early. Pictured the following:

"You're hired"

"Great"

"How soon can you start?"

"8 months from now..."

Just did the same thing!

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

what do you do? that might help.

I am an independent computer consultant (which just means I work for myself and sign contracts to work on a specific project). I've worked exclusively on SAP Projects/Implementations for 14 years now. I am open to hiring back full-time for the right opportunity (economy and job market is way different now than my last job search 8.5 years ago). Also very strongly considering relocating to the Pacific Northwest (Portland-Seattle corridor) to be closer to wife's family.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by tyketime

I am an independent computer consultant (which just means I work for myself and sign contracts to work on a specific project). I've worked exclusively on SAP Projects/Implementations for 14 years now. I am open to hiring back full-time for the right opportunity (economy and job market is way different now than my last job search 8.5 years ago). Also very strongly considering relocating to the Pacific Northwest (Portland-Seattle corridor) to be closer to wife's family.

I'd almost definitely throw a website up if I was you then. Heck - if you decide to keep going on a consulting basis then it can be an ongoing thing for your business (assuming you don't have a website for the business now - if you do i think the question would be why it isn't driving your job-search already).

This was advice that my father got from a woman at his previous job - as part of his package he got the services of this "outplacement specialist" or whatever the jargon is. So it's not something that he totally just made up.

Particularly for an independent consultant, a resume-type website for your business can be a great driver of future business. And it seems like you'd have a long list of former clients who could give testimonials - sprinkle the website with testimonials from them surrounding examples of projects you've done (if you can get an okay for that), toss in some body-text talking about your different strengths and what you have to offer (different pages for each strength/attribute), throw in some photos of you (staged if necessary) in a business setting, any types of industry recognition that you or your implementations might have won, and woila!

[Doug5984]

Just got a phone call to set up another interview at another public accounting firm in town- I had my dad send a resume to one of his friends who happened to be hiring, not how I like to do things- but at this point I'll do whatever it takes to get a new job.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Doug5984

Just got a phone call to set up another interview at another public accounting firm in town- I had my dad send a resume to one of his friends who happened to be hiring, not how I like to do things- but at this point I'll do whatever it takes to get a new job.

Don't feel bad. This is how most job are found. Something like 10-15% of jobs are found via Monster, want ads, etc... the rest is through networking.

Good luck and hope to hear good news soon!

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by tyketime

Also very strongly considering relocating to the Pacific Northwest (Portland-Seattle corridor) to be closer to wife's family.

So I have a phone interview for a job in the Pacific Northwest. The job description indicated that there may be Relocation assistance. That's the good news. We are still living here on the East Coast, but ready & willing to move. So... do I tell the Interviewer I am still located on East Coast or not? My question is even though they say they would offer Relocation Assistance, I would be afraid "preference" would be given to local candidates. I am OK saying I'm already located out West, but then I lose out on any chance for money to move. Any HR Types out there that could weigh in on this dilemma for me?

[Airhog]

Originally Posted by tyketime

So I have a phone interview for a job in the Pacific Northwest. The job description indicated that there may be Relocation assistance. That's the good news. We are still living here on the East Coast, but ready & willing to move. So... do I tell the Interviewer I am still located on East Coast or not? My question is even though they say they would offer Relocation Assistance, I would be afraid "preference" would be given to local candidates. I am OK saying I'm already located out West, but then I lose out on any chance for money to move. Any HR Types out there that could weigh in on this dilemma for me?

I would be honest if they asked, show a strong desire to want to move, like "I have family out there, and I want to move closer to them". If they don't ask, I wouldn't say anything just now.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tyketime

So I have a phone interview for a job in the Pacific Northwest. The job description indicated that there may be Relocation assistance. That's the good news. We are still living here on the East Coast, but ready & willing to move. So... do I tell the Interviewer I am still located on East Coast or not? My question is even though they say they would offer Relocation Assistance, I would be afraid "preference" would be given to local candidates. I am OK saying I'm already located out West, but then I lose out on any chance for money to move. Any HR Types out there that could weigh in on this dilemma for me?

Just be honest with them. If they say they offer assistance that money is there already and odds are unless it is a very small outfit the person in charge of hiring you couldn't care less where that money goes.

I also think the fact you are willing to relocate shows how much you want the job and can work in your favor.

Is the job near Seattle? If so let me know if I can do anything to help. Good Luck.

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Is the job near Seattle? If so let me know if I can do anything to help. Good Luck.

Portland area. Thanks, I appreciate the offer.

[tyketime]

I found another job listing I would like to apply for. As it turns out, it's the same company that I had the phone interview with for another position. It's a very large company, so chances that the two positions are in the same area are minimal, but I suppose possible.

So... is it ok to apply for 2 jobs in the same company, or would HR folks frown at it? I think my phone interview went well, and I hope to hear in next week that I move on to next round of hiring phase.

Thanks for your insight...

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by Doug5984

Just got a phone call to set up another interview at another public accounting firm in town- I had my dad send a resume to one of his friends who happened to be hiring, not how I like to do things- but at this point I'll do whatever it takes to get a new job.

Had my interview yesterday afternoon, I think it went great- talked to them for about an hour, half the time about job related stuff, the other half about hunting (the interviewer was a big hunter)... It'd would be a half step back for me in that I'd be going back to an entry level position with some people fresh out of college- but they have a very good training program ( I didn't get any real training here) that exposes you to all different types of public accounting for a couple of years then you pick what you like / are good at and go with that specialty. They asked what it would take financially to get me to leave where I am at, and they pay OT. So I'm hopeful they can match what I need and make me an offer.

[samifan24]

Hey at least you're going back to a career type job. I'm interviewing with a big box retailer to sell computers part-time. It's all I can get.