Fun with genetics

lungs · 02-21-2010, 04:08 PM

I guess this could probably go in the dynasty forum, but I don't feel like putting it there. This'll be a dynasty like no other FOFC has ever seen

Anyway, a little background. Fairly recently, California passed a law making it illegal to dock tails on cattle. The law itself is pretty stupid if you ask me. Docking a tail is simply putting a rubber band midway up the tail, cutting off the circulation and after a week or two the bottom part of the tail falls off. It's mainly a cleanliness issue. Tails get caked with manure and they are great for making manure a projectile. Proponents of the ban argue that it helps keep flies away. If they knew anything, they'd know the most bothersome flies are belly flies and ankle flies. I have yet to see a tail that will reach those areas.

With that rant out of the way, I may have discovered a mutant gene on my farm that produces naturally docked tails.

This is the pretty lady that was born with a tail docked at the perfect length. Normally I wouldn't think much of it, as I've seen some tail deformities before. But this one's grandmother was born with absolutely no tail at all. That's either a major coincidence or there is something genetically going on. To make things even more appealing, the mother of this heifer is the highest producing cow we've ever had on the farm.

Now that she just turned one year old in January, I started a process today called "flushing" her. Basically I started her on a follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) which will hopefully lead to superovulation (producing many more than the normal one egg). Friday, I will artificially inseminate her with this guy's semen:

Fast forward a week later, and a veterinarian will come and suck out hopefully a lot of fertilized eggs that I will in turn place the eggs into surrogate mothers.

This is a good way to see if there is anything genetic going on with this deformity. Even if there isn't anything going on, I'll hopefully have several more members from one of my best families. Worst case scenario, she doesn't give me any fertilized eggs in which case I'll just go ahead and breed her again and let her carry her own calf to term.

Greyroofoo · 02-21-2010, 04:19 PM

I've never been more excited to read about cow mating!
Good luck!

DaddyTorgo · 02-21-2010, 04:19 PM

awesome! you could prolly make some good money with those genes if that's the case

Izulde · 02-21-2010, 04:20 PM

Kick ass. Badger State Pride.

lungs · 02-21-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

awesome! you could prolly make some good money with those genes if that's the case

Definitely. If she flushes well the first time around, I've got another mate picked out for her that produces 50% hornless calves. Creating naturally hornless, tail-less cows would be an absolute gold mine

bhlloy · 02-21-2010, 04:45 PM

Probably a very stupid question but how can the state tell that these cows are just born that way and you didn't dock their tails?

lungs · 02-21-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Probably a very stupid question but how can the state tell that these cows are just born that way and you didn't dock their tails?

DNA testing would work but be very costly. They'd also need to identify the gene before they could do that.

It'd throw a wrench into that law, that's for sure. It'd probably just be easier for them to ban any related offspring of my cow.

Swaggs · 02-21-2010, 07:16 PM

Very cool thread -- I hope it works out well for you.

What is the neighborhood of the vet costs to do the fetrilized egg removal and insemination? Just curious to see what the cost vs risk vs benefit is in this case.

lungs · 02-21-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Very cool thread -- I hope it works out well for you.

What is the neighborhood of the vet costs to do the fetrilized egg removal and insemination? Just curious to see what the cost vs risk vs benefit is in this case.

The vet that does this is a family friend also, so if things go bad and we don't get any fertilized eggs (which has happened to me) he doesn't charge for the egg removal, only the drugs which run about $150. If everything goes right I'm pretty sure it would run about $500-800 for the vet fees(including drugs). The particular bull I am using costs $30 per straw of which I will use three in a flush. So when is all said and done, the costs will be under $1000.

I'm very optimistic for this flush yield wise because she is a virgin heifer. Her body isn't expending any energy producing milk. I tried flushing her mother twice and she only gave me one fertile egg (of which the surrogate rejected) because she was producing insane amounts of milk. I think I could reasonably expect to get at least 10 high quality eggs from her. Figure about 50% of the implanted eggs will hold and I should reasonably expect 5 offspring from this particular flush. That said, things could go really, really well and I'd get much more than 10 or things could go really bad and I could get nothing at all.

lungs · 02-26-2010, 01:07 PM

The bull's sperm are now swimming their way up her reproductive tract. Hopefully they will find plenty of eggs to fertilize when they get there. I'll be putting more semen into her tonight and tomorrow in case the first wave of soldiers don't find their way to all the eggs.

PackerFanatic · 02-26-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izulde

Kick ass. Badger State Pride.

Damn straight!

PackerFanatic · 02-26-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

The bull's sperm are now swimming their way up her reproductive tract. Hopefully they will find plenty of eggs to fertilize when they get there. I'll be putting more semen into her tonight and tomorrow in case the first wave of soldiers don't find their way to all the eggs.

Out of context, this statement is damn weird...

JediKooter · 02-26-2010, 01:37 PM

This thread is extremely interesting starting from the last post and working your way to the first.

lungs · 02-26-2010, 02:08 PM

The wonders of creating new life and the humor us humans find in it

Lathum · 02-26-2010, 02:13 PM

Not what I expected when I opened this thread, but cool.

lungs · 03-05-2010, 04:47 PM

She gave me 6 very high quality eggs. Not as good of a yield as I had hoped but she also had a cystic follicle on one of her ovaries which means she did very well to give us 6 high quality eggs.

We immediately implanted 2 of the eggs into surrogate mothers, and froze the other 4 in liquid nitrogen for later use.

This is the youngest cow this particular vet clinic had ever done. She is only thirteen months old and we usually don't even consider breeding out animals until they are 14 months old so I've got some time and plan on repeating this process with her again in April.

The frozen eggs I will hold onto until a later date so that the calves that result from these eggs won't be born in the middle of winter.

lungs · 03-05-2010, 04:50 PM

Her next mate hails from Great Britain and is considered one of the best, if not best bulls in the world. I got my hands on some of his semen before they stopped exporting him from Britain:

Toddzilla · 03-05-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

I got my hands on some of his semen

That's got to go in the FOFC Quote HoF

lungs · 03-05-2010, 07:13 PM

At least it is frozen and inside a straw

Swaggs · 03-05-2010, 08:21 PM

What's the deal with the stud pictures? They look like they are from a set of trading cards or something.

lungs · 03-06-2010, 06:02 AM

They pretty much are. They are catalog pictures that are photoshopped. The backgrounds at least.

JediKooter · 03-06-2010, 06:04 AM

Happy cows make a great steak!

lungs · 03-06-2010, 06:43 AM

Or in the case of my cows, some nice swiss cheese. And I don't even need to kill them to get that!

JediKooter · 03-06-2010, 06:47 AM

Love swiss cheese. Definitely don't kill them if they are providing some dang good dairy products.

lungs · 04-01-2010, 02:34 PM

Update.....

One out of the two embryos implanted into surrogate mothers has held. Should have a baby calf in early December.

The other implanted embryo did not hold and we killed that cow for that reason. Just kidding. She should hopefully be pregnant with her own calf now.

Four of the embryos are sitting in a tank of frozen nitrogen next to my desk as I type this. I'll hopefully implant them sometime later this month or in May.

TCY Junkie · 04-01-2010, 02:44 PM

So this just isn't something you made up to entertain me.

lungs · 04-01-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCY Junkie

So this just isn't something you made up to entertain me.

100% real life farm livin'!

TCY Junkie · 04-01-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

100% real life farm livin'!

Yeah, that's why I like it. I didn't expect to see it on this forum. I guess I was just saying in my own way to keep us updated.

jeheinz72 · 04-01-2010, 03:52 PM

This is the best thread ever.

Emmett13 · 04-01-2010, 04:14 PM

Man, I bet those surrogate cows are confused!

molson · 04-01-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

Four of the embryos are sitting in a tank of frozen nitrogen next to my desk as I type this.

I just want to remind you that I have a birthday coming up.

k0ruptr · 04-01-2010, 10:48 PM

LMAO, I love this thread, and also I think Lungs is always entertaining, I remember a thread a while back about our favorite FOFC posters, and most underrated. I think he fits both categories.

lungs · 04-02-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I just want to remind you that I have a birthday coming up.

Do I want to know what on earth you'd want to do with a frozen embryo???

lungs · 04-02-2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

LMAO, I love this thread, and also I think Lungs is always entertaining, I remember a thread a while back about our favorite FOFC posters, and most underrated. I think he fits both categories.

Why thank you, I didn't know I was rated. Just don't make me overrated!

molson · 04-03-2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

Do I want to know what on earth you'd want to do with a frozen embryo???

Probably not....

But you'll figure it out when the time comes

(Hint, it has something to do with man-cows.)

EagleFan · 04-03-2010, 12:27 PM

How have I missed this thread? One of the best threads ever.

It's got the whole real world serious angle covered where I hope everything works out the way he want it to.

On the lighter side there are some GREAT posts in this thread that are serious WTF posts if you see them out of context. Entering this thread for the very first time by way of the "go to the latest post" option is a hazard to monitors...

lungs · 04-03-2010, 02:59 PM

On another note, I'm trying to get the donor to cycle back so I can repeat the process all over again. All the while she is oblivious to the fact that one of her good friends is carrying her pregnancy (they live in the same pen together).

EagleFan · 04-03-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

On another note, I'm trying to get the donor to cycle back so I can repeat the process all over again. All the while she is oblivious to the fact that one of her good friends is carrying her pregnancy (they live in the same pen together).

Bovine soap opera...

kingfc22 · 04-03-2010, 05:21 PM

Glad I clicked on this thread. Simply awesome!

lungs · 04-08-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

Her next mate hails from Great Britain and is considered one of the best, if not best bulls in the world. I got my hands on some of his semen before they stopped exporting him from Britain:

Latest development is that I've decided not to use this bull as a mate on my heifer. A little explanation is necessary....

Every bull that is marketed goes through a proving process to prove his genetic merit. Data on the bulls daughters are collected and basically you get statistics about how his daughters perform compared to the average in the breed in many, many different areas. Three times a year, updated data are released, and one of those days was on Monday.

The bull pictured is very well proven, with over 20,000 daughters. But this latest data was not kind to him as he added over 3000 daughters to his proof. My biggest concern about him going into this was the fertility of his daughters. He was already below average in this trait (-1.6% below average) and he dropped to -2.3% below average. Might not seem like much but it was enough for me to say that those numbers won't cut it.

What I will be replacing him with is a HUGE risk. The replacement bull (named Bowser) has 0 daughters but in the last year or so, DNA marker technology has come along so we can get a pretty decent guess how they will turn out. The first bull I used (Superstition) was one of the first bulls released based on this technology and has added almost 100 daughters and confirmed what his DNA said. But, that has not been the case with all the bulls out there.

What makes me feel more comfortable is I'm milking several daughters of Bowser's father and think they are awesome.

If you are a numbers guy like me, selecting mates for my cows can be quite fun.

JonInMiddleGA · 04-08-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

If you are a numbers guy like me, selecting mates for my cows can be quite fun.

Pimpin' ain't easy

path12 · 04-08-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

Latest development is that I've decided not to use this bull as a mate on my heifer. A little explanation is necessary....

Every bull that is marketed goes through a proving process to prove his genetic merit. Data on the bulls daughters are collected and basically you get statistics about how his daughters perform compared to the average in the breed in many, many different areas. Three times a year, updated data are released, and one of those days was on Monday.

The bull pictured is very well proven, with over 20,000 daughters. But this latest data was not kind to him as he added over 3000 daughters to his proof. My biggest concern about him going into this was the fertility of his daughters. He was already below average in this trait (-1.6% below average) and he dropped to -2.3% below average. Might not seem like much but it was enough for me to say that those numbers won't cut it.

What I will be replacing him with is a HUGE risk. The replacement bull (named Bowser) has 0 daughters but in the last year or so, DNA marker technology has come along so we can get a pretty decent guess how they will turn out. The first bull I used (Superstition) was one of the first bulls released based on this technology and has added almost 100 daughters and confirmed what his DNA said. But, that has not been the case with all the bulls out there.

What makes me feel more comfortable is I'm milking several daughters of Bowser's father and think they are awesome.

If you are a numbers guy like me, selecting mates for my cows can be quite fun.

It's like trying to find a promising youngster in FM. You've found a real-life application for text sim geeks. Awesome.

lungs · 04-08-2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

It's like trying to find a promising youngster in FM. You've found a real-life application for text sim geeks. Awesome.

That's a hell of a comparison because it's so very true.

For anybody interested in what these numbers look like:

Super's Web Page

Bowser's Web Page

lungs · 04-08-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Pimpin' ain't easy

People are paid very good money to be cow pimps

JonInMiddleGA · 04-08-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

People are paid very good money to be cow pimps

Having worked with a top stockman for the PBR on behalf of a client (as well as following the sport pretty closely for several years), I'm at least somewhat familiar with just how big the bucks can get as well as how much science goes into it (I might not get the finer points but the general concept I'm pretty familiar with)

Pimpin' ain't easy ... but it can be lucrative

heybrad · 04-08-2010, 11:13 AM

This is how text sims are born.

FOCP - Front Office Cow Pimpin'

lungs · 04-08-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Having worked with a top stockman for the PBR on behalf of a client (as well as following the sport pretty closely for several years), I'm at least somewhat familiar with just how big the bucks can get as well as how much science goes into it (I might not get the finer points but the general concept I'm pretty familiar with)

Pimpin' ain't easy ... but it can be lucrative

The best thing about the PBR is that they select their bulls to be the meanest sum'bitch they possibly can....

FWIW, top showring dairy cows are bringing over $1,000,000 at auction now. That's not what I'm into though. Best comparison would be showring dogs and working dogs. I'm in the working cow business. Less lucrative but less bullshit.

lungs · 04-08-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heybrad

This is how text sims are born.

FOCP - Front Office Cow Pimpin'

If only I had programming skills.

JonInMiddleGA · 04-08-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heybrad

This is how text sims are born.

FOCP - Front Office Cow Pimpin'

I was thinking something like Breed 'em and Reap

Izulde · 04-08-2010, 02:45 PM

Well, now we know what happened to Bowser after Mario beat him. He mutated into a bull who breeds daughters with suspect fertility.

02-21-2010, 04:19 PM	#3
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	awesome! you could prolly make some good money with those genes if that's the case __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

02-21-2010, 04:20 PM	#4
Izulde Head Coach Join Date: Sep 2004	Kick ass. Badger State Pride. __________________ 2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)

02-21-2010, 07:16 PM	#8
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Very cool thread -- I hope it works out well for you. What is the neighborhood of the vet costs to do the fetrilized egg removal and insemination? Just curious to see what the cost vs risk vs benefit is in this case. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

02-26-2010, 01:37 PM	#13
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	This thread is extremely interesting starting from the last post and working your way to the first. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

03-05-2010, 08:21 PM	#20
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	What's the deal with the stud pictures? They look like they are from a set of trading cards or something. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

02-21-2010, 04:19 PM	#2
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	I've never been more excited to read about cow mating! Good luck!

02-21-2010, 04:45 PM	#6
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	Probably a very stupid question but how can the state tell that these cows are just born that way and you didn't dock their tails?

02-26-2010, 01:07 PM	#10
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	The bull's sperm are now swimming their way up her reproductive tract. Hopefully they will find plenty of eggs to fertilize when they get there. I'll be putting more semen into her tonight and tomorrow in case the first wave of soldiers don't find their way to all the eggs.

02-26-2010, 02:08 PM	#14
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	The wonders of creating new life and the humor us humans find in it

02-26-2010, 02:13 PM	#15
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Not what I expected when I opened this thread, but cool.

03-05-2010, 04:47 PM	#16
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	She gave me 6 very high quality eggs. Not as good of a yield as I had hoped but she also had a cystic follicle on one of her ovaries which means she did very well to give us 6 high quality eggs. We immediately implanted 2 of the eggs into surrogate mothers, and froze the other 4 in liquid nitrogen for later use. This is the youngest cow this particular vet clinic had ever done. She is only thirteen months old and we usually don't even consider breeding out animals until they are 14 months old so I've got some time and plan on repeating this process with her again in April. The frozen eggs I will hold onto until a later date so that the calves that result from these eggs won't be born in the middle of winter.

03-05-2010, 04:50 PM	#17
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	Her next mate hails from Great Britain and is considered one of the best, if not best bulls in the world. I got my hands on some of his semen before they stopped exporting him from Britain:

03-05-2010, 07:13 PM	#19
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	At least it is frozen and inside a straw

03-06-2010, 06:02 AM	#21
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	They pretty much are. They are catalog pictures that are photoshopped. The backgrounds at least.

03-06-2010, 06:04 AM	#22
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	Happy cows make a great steak! __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

03-06-2010, 06:43 AM	#23
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	Or in the case of my cows, some nice swiss cheese. And I don't even need to kill them to get that!

03-06-2010, 06:47 AM	#24
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	Love swiss cheese. Definitely don't kill them if they are providing some dang good dairy products. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

04-01-2010, 02:34 PM	#25
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	Update..... One out of the two embryos implanted into surrogate mothers has held. Should have a baby calf in early December. The other implanted embryo did not hold and we killed that cow for that reason. Just kidding. She should hopefully be pregnant with her own calf now. Four of the embryos are sitting in a tank of frozen nitrogen next to my desk as I type this. I'll hopefully implant them sometime later this month or in May.

04-01-2010, 02:44 PM	#26
TCY Junkie College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: TX	So this just isn't something you made up to entertain me. __________________ I try to open things I probably have no chance of opening.

04-01-2010, 04:14 PM	#30
Emmett13 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Aug 2003	Man, I bet those surrogate cows are confused!

04-01-2010, 10:48 PM	#32
k0ruptr Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Las Vegas	LMAO, I love this thread, and also I think Lungs is always entertaining, I remember a thread a while back about our favorite FOFC posters, and most underrated. I think he fits both categories. __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: k0ruptr My Favorite Teams : Chicago White Sox - Carolina Panthers - Orlando Magic - Phoenix Suns - Anaheim Ducks - Hawaii Warriors - Oregon Ducks

04-03-2010, 12:27 PM	#36
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	How have I missed this thread? One of the best threads ever. It's got the whole real world serious angle covered where I hope everything works out the way he want it to. On the lighter side there are some GREAT posts in this thread that are serious WTF posts if you see them out of context. Entering this thread for the very first time by way of the "go to the latest post" option is a hazard to monitors...

04-03-2010, 02:59 PM	#37
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	On another note, I'm trying to get the donor to cycle back so I can repeat the process all over again. All the while she is oblivious to the fact that one of her good friends is carrying her pregnancy (they live in the same pen together).

04-03-2010, 05:21 PM	#39
kingfc22 Head Coach Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Morgan Hill, CA	Glad I clicked on this thread. Simply awesome! __________________ Fan of SF Giants, 49ers, Sharks, Arsenal

04-08-2010, 11:13 AM	#46
heybrad Norm!!! Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Manassas, VA	This is how text sims are born. FOCP - Front Office Cow Pimpin'

04-08-2010, 02:45 PM	#50
Izulde Head Coach Join Date: Sep 2004	Well, now we know what happened to Bowser after Mario beat him. He mutated into a bull who breeds daughters with suspect fertility. __________________ 2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)

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