Joshua Cribbs' agent might have a screw loose.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Peter Schaffer

They like to say Cribbs has three years left on the contract, but I can assure them they have no years left on the contract. Either this gets resolved by the first day of the league year, or he will never show up for the Browns again and will immediately demand a trade.

1) You're trying to strongarm a 5-win team over the fate of a glorified special teams player. Adrian Peterson or Tom Brady, this ain't.

2) Cool. He's still making peanuts. $900k per season for three years ain't going to break anybody's salary cap, and if he doesn't show up, he isn't going to get paid, so it isn't as if the guy cutting the checks is going to be all that broken up.

3) Does the contract run for three years whether he reports or not? If not, and the salary cap goes away...Cleveland is NEVER going to care what happens if they don't have to pay him and he can't sign with anybody else.

I dunno, I'm probably reading too much into this, but it seems like this Schaffer fella needs to learn a lesson about picking his battles. If the Browns come to an agreement on a contract renegotiation/extension, it won't be because Schaffer wagged his finger in the press and said "If he doesn't get a new deal by the first day of the 2010 league year, he's never playing for you again."

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

3) Does the contract run for three years whether he reports or not?

Don't players have to show up by week ten to get credit for a year off a contract?

Still, this seems like pretty typical agent posturing, no?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Don't players have to show up by week ten to get credit for a year off a contract?

Still, this seems like pretty typical agent posturing, no?

Yes, it does seem that way. But it's the first time I can recall reading such a hardline stance from an agent over a player who, frankly, is irrelevant to his team's chances of going from an 11-game loser to, say, a 10-game winner the next year. He's saying that Cribbs is "insulted" over an offer of a $500k raise.

I don't know exactly how much he's looking to get the player, but I repeat - Tom Brady or Adrian Peterson, he's not. And, again, we're talking about peanuts against the cap in the worst case. If Cleveland decides to make an example of Cribbs, there is fuck-all he can do here. He's got essentially no leverage except "Look at me, I scored a couple special teams touchdowns!"

And he's trying to use that leverage against a team in competitive disarray. I'm not feelin' it.

[stevew]

Cribbs is the best player on the Browns. His current contract is far below his value to the team. They need to bump him to the 5M range.

He basically won 2 to 3 games for them this year. They are not utilizing him properly on offense.

[Cap Ologist]

Heh, Shaffer is also an agent in FOF, and if I remember correctly, he's helped Jim out before.

[MrDNA]

Cribbs is the best player on the team and does deserve more money. His agent, however, is a flaming idiot. Perhaps one ought to wait until the team has hired a GM before issuing contract demands? Merely a suggestion on my part.

[Danny]

No issue with Cribbs demanding a new contract and not playing until he gets it, he is vastly underpaid, NFL careers are short and they have unguaranteed contracts.

[stevew]

They also promised him a redo on the deal in 2008 I think. So, regardless of his current contract, they need to take care of him.

And Sack, he's a bit more than just a good special teams player. He's one of the best return men of all time. And his coverage skills are top notch.

They aren't smart enough to get him 15 touches on offense a game. You want the ball in the hand of your playmakers. He's obviously one.

[Bearcat729]

Cribbs is the 2nd or 3rd best player on the Browns. I would take Joe Thomas and possibly Eric Steinbach over Cribbs. However he did win a few games for the team on his own and does deserve a nice raise, just not anything crazy.

[lungs]

Agent Quote: "If they had offered even something like $2.5 million per season we could have worked with them, but to me this offer is indefensible."

It's not like he's asking for a ridiculous salary. These types of things are the only recourse players have when their contracts aren't guaranteed.

[Logan]

Sack, the agent has pissed you off and has clouded your opinion of Cribbs as a player.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by stevew

They also promised him a redo on the deal in 2008 I think. So, regardless of his current contract, they need to take care of him.

And Sack, he's a bit more than just a good special teams player. He's one of the best return men of all time. And his coverage skills are top notch.

They aren't smart enough to get him 15 touches on offense a game. You want the ball in the hand of your playmakers. He's obviously one.

"all time" ??

the guy hasn't had the longevity to belong in that conversation. he may have a couple of the single best returns of all time, but that doesn't make him one of the best return men of all time.

[panerd]

I think I have heard this argument about (fill in any great special teams player) before haven't I? What has Cribbs done to prove that he is anything more than an exceptional part-time player? Devin Hester, Reggie Bush, Desmond Howard, Dante Hall, Pacman Jones... these are NOT superstars. That's why they are returning kicks!!! I don't see Sidney Rice or Adrian Peterson returning kicks for the Vikings. Obviously this isn't the focus of most teams or those guys would be!

[Logan]

Originally Posted by panerd

I think I have heard this argument about (fill in any great special teams player) before haven't I? What has Cribbs done to prove that he is anything more than an exceptional part-time player? Devin Hester, Reggie Bush, Desmond Howard, Dante Hall, Pacman Jones... these are NOT superstars.

Return the ball.

Run the ball.

Catch the ball.

Throw the ball.

Cover the ball.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

Return the ball.

Run the ball.

Catch the ball.

Throw the ball.

Cover the ball.

I have seen him play 4 full games this season. Obviously I don't compare to a Brown's fan (who I am sure is very unbiased) but I think 4 is more than any non fan would have seen. And he just didn't impress me much at all. The announcers kept talking him up but he sure didn't perform.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

"all time" ??

the guy hasn't had the longevity to belong in that conversation. he may have a couple of the single best returns of all time, but that doesn't make him one of the best return men of all time.

He already has the record for return Tds. I guess if he is just average for 6 years, that would give him longevity?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Cap Ologist

Heh, Shaffer is also an agent in FOF, and if I remember correctly, he's helped Jim out before.

Yes, Peter has taught me a lot about the finances in the NFL and I've enjoyed talking to him over the years. He's been around a long time, and he doesn't burn bridges with teams. I'm sure he knows exactly what he's doing and simply wants to be at the front of the line when teams start adjusting to the new financial reality of 2010, probably post-cap.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by stevew

He already has the record for return Tds. I guess if he is just average for 6 years, that would give him longevity?

that record seems to get broken every year.

and i think being a great return man isn't necessarily about how many TD's you have (sure those are spectacular sometimes instant game-changers), but more about what your average return is like over a career. average starting field position you give your team likely has a larger effect on W-L than a few returns broken for TD's.

at least so i'd assume (without any statistical evidence to back that up)

[panerd]

Wonder if Jim has an alert for whenever someone mentions him in a thread? It's always good to see Solecismic in a thread though, he is definitely the reason I came here. (And I can't wait someday to see a Skydog message about a new game!)

[DeToxRox]

Cribbs agent said they will officially request a trade:


The agent for Josh Cribbs told NFL.com late Wednesday that his client will formally request a trade from the Browns.
The Browns, under Mike Holmgren even, are offering Cribbs a raise to just $1.4M a year. Another of Cribbs' player reps hinted at a trade demand earlier today. Agent J.R. Rickert confirmed it. "We’re going to formally put in a request for a trade," Rickert said. "(Cribbs) will not set foot in that facility again. If they had offered even something like $2.5 million per season we could have worked with them, but to me this offer is indefensible."

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

"all time" ??

the guy hasn't had the longevity to belong in that conversation. he may have a couple of the single best returns of all time, but that doesn't make him one of the best return men of all time.

He has the most all-time kickoff returns for TDs (8) and has scored 2 more on punt returns. He is absolutely in the conversation.

The fact that he is one of the most exciting players in the NFL and that he can be the all-time record holder in KO returns for TDs while remaining a relative unknown to a number of pretty dedicated NFL fans is the result of playing for a pathetic, directionless organization like Cleveland for 5-years. I imagine he is probably looking for a trade more than a payday -- either way, with the way the Browns have conducted business over the past few years, I'm not sure I would handle things much differently if I am Cribbs.

[panerd]

Like I said earlier... Devin Hester, Reggie Bush, Desmond Howard, Dante Hall, Pacman Jones. Would you really want to have built your franchise around one of these players a few years ago? How is Cribbs hype any different than these? I would argue that Hester and Hall had even more buzz as "unstoppable" & "do not kick to this guy". What do they think they are going to get for Cribbs? Suh? McCoy? Try like 2nd or 3rd round pick.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by panerd

Like I said earlier... Devin Hester, Reggie Bush, Desmond Howard, Dante Hall, Pacman Jones. Would you really want to have built your franchise around one of these players a few years ago? How is Cribbs hype any different than these? I would argue that Hester and Hall had even more buzz as "unstoppable" & "do not kick to this guy". What do they think they are going to get for Cribbs? Suh? McCoy? Try like 2nd or 3rd round pick.

I wouldn't give higher than a 4th.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by panerd

Like I said earlier... Devin Hester, Reggie Bush, Desmond Howard, Dante Hall, Pacman Jones. Would you really want to have built your franchise around one of these players a few years ago? How is Cribbs hype any different than these? I would argue that Hester and Hall had even more buzz as "unstoppable" & "do not kick to this guy". What do they think they are going to get for Cribbs? Suh? McCoy? Try like 2nd or 3rd round pick.

$2.5 million a year is hardly "build your franchise around" money.

[Abe Sargent]

Having attended an actual Browns game I should say that the stadium was more pro-Joshua Cribbs than any other play. I saw more Cribbs jerseys that than of any other current Browns player. They cheered him louder and longer than any other.

[Celeval]

Cribbs is the best return man in the game right now, bar none.

He's a pretty good offensive player, although I don't think he should be an every down guy on offense.

He's also a top-notch defensive special teams player.

FWIW, there had been a lot of discussion about him getting a salary adjustment before this year, and it didn't happen - there were threats of holding out, and to his credit, he didn't - he came in and played, and played hard despite being obviously underpaid the whole season. That's one big reason why the Cleveland fans love him so much.

[Tigercat]

Nothing wrong with paying the best returner, especially when he is so by a decent margin, 2-3 million dollars a year. Add in the fact that he is the most exciting player on your team (those guys put butts in the seats) and it should be a no brainer for a struggling franchise.

[jbergey22]

Holmgren will keep Cribbs. He isnt going to let him go right now.

If your offense is just crap you need to start somewhere.

The Bears made it to the Super Bowl 3-4 years ago with a great Special Teams and defense.

[stevew]

My friend has the bladder of a 5 year old. We were at a game last year, and of course he was out pissing when Cribbs ran a kickoff back. I make fun of him for this fact quite a bit.

[MikeVic]

Yeah, the Browns are fuckups if they let Cribbs walk instead of a raise to 3M. Special teams are important, ask the Steelers. And as others have said, I thought he was supposed to get a raise last year. He definitely deserves one this year. That offense has nothing buy him and I guess Jerome Harrison right now. You have to pay him the decent amount of 2.5-3M.

[Swaggs]

He makes less than like 25 guys that the Browns are paying this season. They paid 15 guys more than $3-million. It isn't like he is asking for franchise QB money or even to make it into the top 10 on the Browns' payroll, fellas. He is looking to be paid in the neighborhood of Joe Jurevicius, Robaire Smith, and Corey Williams on the Browns.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by panerd

I think I have heard this argument about (fill in any great special teams player) before haven't I? What has Cribbs done to prove that he is anything more than an exceptional part-time player? Devin Hester, Reggie Bush, Desmond Howard, Dante Hall, Pacman Jones... these are NOT superstars. That's why they are returning kicks!!! I don't see Sidney Rice or Adrian Peterson returning kicks for the Vikings. Obviously this isn't the focus of most teams or those guys would be!

You had me until Sidney Rice came after superstar...the logic broke down at that point

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

You had me until Sidney Rice came after superstar...the logic broke down at that point

He soon will be

[bhlloy]

I would pay Cribbs 3 million a year in a heartbeat. Best return man in the game, can play a bit of receiver, plays all the special teams and I don't think anyone has mentioned one of the better wildcat QB's in the game also. Hell, he's probably a better play than Michael Vick right now.

And like many people have said it's not like the Browns have an abundance of playmakers on the field or are right at the salary cap. They'd be insane to let him walk over 2.5-3 mil a year.

[larrymcg421]

Great, we won't give more than a 4th rounder for him and we won't build our franchise around him. How is this relevant?

Any team that lets their most exciting player walk because they refuse to pay him more than $900k a year is idiotic beyond belief and deserves any kind of misery coming their way.

[NewIdentity]

Originally Posted by Celeval

He's a pretty good offensive player,

FAIL! This is almost Laughable. Cribbs would not be in the NFL is he could only play offense.

If Cribbs want a raise then he needs to spend this entire offseason trying to get better on offense.

Cribbs is the best return man in the game right now, and probably should be making about the same money you would pay the best place kicker in the game.....I am guessing around 3 million.

Anything more and you are trying to pay him for his offensive abilities and right now he has none.

[NewIdentity]

I would also like to know who will be paying all the team fines when next season rolls around: His agent?

These seem to always be forgiven by the team, but for someone puling down $900,00 they should add upquickly.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

FAIL! This is almost Laughable. Cribbs would not be in the NFL is he could only play offense.

If Cribbs want a raise then he needs to spend this entire offseason trying to get better on offense.

Cribbs is the best return man in the game right now, and probably should be making about the same money you would pay the best place kicker in the game.....I am guessing around 3 million.

Anything more and you are trying to pay him for his offensive abilities and right now he has none.

By the end of the season he was doing well out of the wildcat as a running back, but he is not an every down player nor is he a good receiver, and I can't remember but I don't think he ever threw the ball this season. I could see 3 mil to 3.5mil being a decent amount to give him.

In the end the Browns are going to have to pay him or really slander him in the media because Cribbs is loved by the fans and you can't just trade him without a major backlash from them.

[CleBrownsfan]

I do think they should pay Cribbs pretty much whatever him and his agent are asking for. They guy is electric - in the wildcat, and of course ST (O & D). BUT what I don't understand is why the f*** him and his agent would sign a 5 year deal @ 900k a yr without incentives. If they put incentives in his contract he probably would be making what he's asking for now. I blame the agent and Cribbs wanting security rather than holding off signing a long term contract. I'll just never understand players holding out for more $$$ - you signed the contract and live with it until it's fulfilled. You don't see players giving back money when they sign a 5 mil a year contract and suck - do you? Just my cents.

[jeff061]

you don't see players giving back money when they sign a 5 mil a year contract and suck - do you? Just my cents.

No they just get cut a couple years before the contract is up....

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

$900k per season

As a totally random comparison, the Bills paid Steve Tasker $860k back in 1996

[Cringer]

Take the 1.5 millions a year and shut your trap return boy. And people say he won games by himself. No such thing in football.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by panerd

I have seen him play 4 full games this season. Obviously I don't compare to a Brown's fan (who I am sure is very unbiased) but I think 4 is more than any non fan would have seen. And he just didn't impress me much at all. The announcers kept talking him up but he sure didn't perform.

You didn't watch the last 4 - when they did start using him more - and won all 4?

[Pumpy Tudors]

I can't believe there's a real discussion here about Joshua Cribbs' value to the Browns. As far as putting points on the board, he's the best they've got. He anchors special teams on both sides of the ball. How many Cleveland players are really worth the kind of money he's asking for? It would be extremely difficult to replace him. How exactly is he not worth a pay increase?

If the knock against him is that he's not an every-down offensive player, so what? He contributes more to the team than most of the clowns they put out there. At least he's providing a great deal of value to that team. Most of the other guys aren't.

He's the best player in the league at his particular job. How does an NFL team let a guy like that go over 2 or 3 million dollars? Unless we want to say that special teams aren't that important, I think you absolutely have to take care of the best player in the league at that role. Why wouldn't you?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I can't believe there's a real discussion here about Joshua Cribbs' value to the Browns. As far as putting points on the board, he's the best they've got. He anchors special teams on both sides of the ball. How many Cleveland players are really worth the kind of money he's asking for? It would be extremely difficult to replace him. How exactly is he not worth a pay increase?

If the knock against him is that he's not an every-down offensive player, so what? He contributes more to the team than most of the clowns they put out there. At least he's providing a great deal of value to that team. Most of the other guys aren't.

He's the best player in the league at his particular job. How does an NFL team let a guy like that go over 2 or 3 million dollars? Unless we want to say that special teams aren't that important, I think you absolutely have to take care of the best player in the league at that role. Why wouldn't you?

I agree.

Cribbs is more than just a "return guy." He's their best offensive weapon period. After Ronnie Brown, he may be the best wildcat back in the league. There were a couple of plays against the Steelers in that Monday night game where he seemed to will the Browns to victory. He's a constant threat whenever he's on the field.

If the Browns don't want to pay him and he wants to be traded, I hope Mayhew calls them immediately.

[MikeVic]

Hell yeah, if the Browns don't pay him the Steelers better be knocking on his door.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Hell yeah, if the Browns don't pay him the Steelers better be knocking on his door.

Sorry, I called "dibbs" on Cribbs for the Lions one post prior. Better luck next time!

[lungs]

I don't understand this idea where people think when an NFL player signs a contract they are obligated to fulfill it when the team can cut them from any remaining obligation at any time without paying them a dime (signing bonus excluded of course).

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Sorry, I called "dibbs" on Cribbs for the Lions one post prior. Better luck next time!

Damn!

[Arles]

If I were Green Bay, I'd call up Holmgren and offer a 3rd round pick. The moment it was accepted in the offseason, I would sign Cribbs to $3 mil a year for 3-4 seasons. He's exactly what the team (and their woeful special teams) needs.