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#1 | ||
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Synthetic ice: anyone skated on it before?
Probably a thread for the neighbors up north or in Europe. I'm considering a purchase of a synthetic ice rink and wanted to get some feedback from anyone who might have used it. Anyone know anything about it?
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#2 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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a whole rink?
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
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#3 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dayton, OH
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Man, you are serious about getting a hockey team in Kansas City.
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My listening habits |
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#4 |
General Manager
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Less glide and you need to use your legs much more. Really good for exercise and training but not something I'd recommend for competitions. Still, for a casual skater I don't think it's a big deal.
The biggest issue is what it does to the skates. You have to sharpen them much more frequently as well as replace. So if you're renting out skates, your costs there will be much higher. So I guess what I'd say is it depends on what it's being used for. If it's just open skates like birthday parties and weekend warriors, it's nice. If you're looking to host competitions and such I'd say no. It's not as nice as real ice but probably a bit better than a really sloppy public rink. Mind you my experience was a few years ago so perhaps the technology has gotten better. Last edited by RainMaker : 12-28-2009 at 09:51 AM. |
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#5 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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no zamboni....that is an issue.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
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#6 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
It would be used for open skating and parties, so it sounds like it would fit the bill for what I'm looking for in a rink. We'd be renting skates, so it's good to hear the feedback on the skate wear. I do think the technology has improved quite a bit. Most of the sellers are clearing out the old surface technology from a couple years back in favor of a new surface. They stress the importance of a covered area to minimize dirt/dust that can slow the surface down. They also mention regular maintenance of the surface with the lubricant that keeps the ice 'fast'. |
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#7 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Probably 40' by 80'. I don't believe that's regulation size, but it's pretty large. Supposed to hold 60 skaters max at that size. My wife mentioned this. We may have to rig up a 4x4 to look like a Zamboni just for the whole feel of it. |
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#8 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NYC
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You been getting royalties from Blu Ray sales?
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#9 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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I had no idea such a thing existed
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Mile High Hockey |
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#10 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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#11 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wisconsin
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Glad I wasn't the only one.
__________________
You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its... |
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#12 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wisconsin
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Oh, and if you are going into the Rink business, good luck MBBF. (Definitely an unexpected business for someone to say they are getting into).
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__________________
You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its... |
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#13 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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It's pretty incredible stuff. The newest surface that is used (often called Super Glide) has a efficiency rate of 92-94%, meaning that you'll slide roughly that percentage of distance when compared to a similar slide on real ice. Up until the last 5 years, the quality of the surface had been more suspect, but the technology is much better now. We only have one outdoor rink in the KC metro area and it's only open 5 months a year. There are a couple of indoor hockey rinks that do offer open skating, hockey leagues, and parties. There's a real market opportunity right now to open up a year-round ice skating rink outdoors for parties and open skating. It has the novelty of an indoor water park during the winter in that you could go "ice" skating when it was 90 degrees outside during the summer in addition to ice skating during the winter months. We'd have a roof over the rink, but the sides would be open air unless we wanted to close them off. |
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#14 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
It wouldn't be our main line of business. More of a secondary income on a property intended for something else. Looking to have a draw for families since most of our business will be oriented more to adults. ***joke coming in 3.....2.....1.....*** |
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#15 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wisconsin
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You can be in the Super Glide and Super Lube business.
__________________
You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its... |
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#16 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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careful - he's competition!
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If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9 |
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#17 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wisconsin
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Kansas City isn't my market. I'm safe. ![]() Unless he goes to the internet.. then the FOFC pron wars are on!
__________________
You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its... Last edited by Mustang : 12-28-2009 at 11:31 AM. |
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#18 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Ah, so any thoughts on this from your perspective? Didn't realize we had a veteran of the rink wars on the board. I'm guessing it might be a bit more competitive up in your area. |
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#19 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
lol no - he's in the business of making adults...smile
__________________
If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9 |
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#20 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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and he aint talking about dentistry!
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
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#21 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Ah, different sort of business.
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#22 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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lol
__________________
If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9 |
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#23 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
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There's a local skate center the uses the fake ice where we live. We went to a party there one time and I have to say it was pretty lame. It was a small "rink", but the ice itself felt like you were skating on really smooth linoleum. Mind you, I have no idea what the surface actually was, though the place has only opened within the past year.
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She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? |
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#24 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
So not a whole lot of glide to it? Just curious. I have heard that if it's not properly maintained, it will hurt the performance quality. |
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#25 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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I'd say that that might be something you need to compensate for...
the 'feel' of the atmosphere. Perhaps having open sides will help but if people think the 'feel' of the overall joint is 'cheap' or 'linoleum' like in presence, that may translate into the person's feeling about other things. So having some really glossy professional stuff around may compensate for that 'vibe' he mentions above. IIUC
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
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#26 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
I've heard that the speed of the synthetic ice is good and bad. It's slightly slower, so people who are advanced skaters may not like it as much. On the other hand, it's actually much better for kids and beginners as the slightly slower surface makes it easier for them to learn as opposed to the natural ice surface. Given that we'd love to target families and kids, it would seem to be a good fit. We'd be putting up a structure made of brick over the rink, so it won't be a cheap building by any means. It has to fit the design of the existing buildings on the property. |
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#27 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Quote:
Sounds like something you need to go try out before you buy. You know how salespeople are- they're going to tell you what they think you want to hear to get the sale. It's not like this is a big repeat sale opportunity. What? Are you going to not by your next rink from them if you're not satisfied? SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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#28 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Quote:
![]() SI
__________________
Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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#29 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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__________________
Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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#30 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Quote:
Crown Center? SI
__________________
Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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#31 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
I'll definitely be doing that. We're still several months away from a purchase. I just want to get a feel for people's impressions on it. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that there were this many people that have used some form of it. Correct. They would be the only competition from an outdoor rink perspective. |
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#32 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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In my mind, it'd be perfect out by the Legends. There aren't any indoor rinks that I can think of near there and it fits with the motif of the area. Then again, I'm not much of a business person so I could be all wrong. Zona Rosa area maybe.
At first blush, I thought Overland Park, but I'm pretty sure there are a couple of indoor rinks there and those are indirect competitors so I would try to avoid them. It's not as if there are a lot of indoor rinks in KC either so just placing one out of the way of them would just draw indoor and outdoor customers. SI
__________________
Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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#33 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
This would be located in the Northland in the Liberty area. There's one indoor rink north of the river towards the state line and that's it. |
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#34 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
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Quote:
Right - very little glide. It was basically a bunch of kids and they all looked very comfortable very quickly. On real ice they'd be slipping all over the place. Basically, on the synthetic surface, you give it a good push and you'd stop a few feet later. On ice, you'd be moving for 20-25 feet. Mind you, I have no idea how and if this particular surface is maintained, nor do I know what surface they bought. I'll assume that the companies that sell these surfaces have all kinds of models - from basic to the cream of the crop. I have no idea which this one was - only that the whole concept left a sour taste in my mouth after trying out this particular version.
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She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? |
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#35 | |
Mascot
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Quote:
Pls beware that masonry (brick) construction is expensive. Many long-span structure such as ice rinks are built with pre-engineered steel system, which is much cheaper and lighter. If you are concerned with aesthetics and making the building look more substantial (ie not cheap), you can always veneer the exterior with bricks or other materials of your choice to hide its bones. I have designed an ice rink before with the aforementioned system and it has won architectural design awards. So it really depends on the design and the architect. |
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#36 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
We have an existing building on the site where the rink would be located that is made entirely of brick. So we'd only have to pay for the work (already have a mason on staff) and mortar and we'd just harvest the brick out of the existing building (building will need to be taken down no matter what). I do think the roof will have to be more like what you're talking about with some sort of metal construction. Last edited by Mizzou B-ball fan : 12-28-2009 at 02:35 PM. |
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#37 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Understood. There are varying kinds of surface quality and maintenance, so I need to do a lot more checking either way. The feedback is great. Thanks. |
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#38 | |
Mascot
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Quote:
from what I read you are saying you will demolish an existing building and savage the bricks to build the new one. Here's the caveat: I am not familiar with building codes over there, but new buildings need much better structural integrity than old buildings. New masonry buildings needed to be reinforced, most likely to be better detailed for rainproofing, etc. and you need to be sure that the masonry has enough structural strength to support the new roof. My advice is, aside from the business aspect, consult your local building department and hire an architect/ structural engineer to assess whether what you want to do is workable. A mason is not qualified for that. |
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#39 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
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__________________
If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9 |
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#40 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
We'd be required to do a full architectural design and have it approved by the local gov't. So yes, you're correct. ![]() |
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#41 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Just in case anyone is curious, here's one of the main suppliers of synthetic ice products. They have a video gallery that allows you to see how it works........
EZ Glide 350™ : Synthetic Ice Skating surface. |
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#42 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
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I watched the first couple minutes of one of the videos, it's pretty clear from watching the figure skater that it is much slower than real ice. That said, I was pretty impressed with the moves she was pulling off, as well as the hockey player, and neither of them looked like they were holding back for fear of the surface not responding in a way they would expect and causing injury (which would be my biggest fear stepping onto it).
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"Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime." |
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#43 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Agreed. You can tell a difference. I think a slower surface may work OK given that I'll be trying to draw in families and kids in the local area that are mostly beginners. From my personal experience the first few times on ice, I wouldn't have minded at all starting on a slower surface. ![]() |
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#44 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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So this is like a granite type flooring you can skate on basically? I'd imagine the upkeep makes it a win win situation. No offense, but it seems kind of lame as compared to actual ice.
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#45 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Plastic polymer surface. Life of the floor is 10 years on each side (panels are double sided). So you can get 20 years out of a set of panels. It's obviously MUCH cheaper than a natural surface since you don't have to get a resurfacing machine and you don't have to run the temperature control equipment. And you are able to use it year round rather than only 5 months out of the year in this area. |
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#46 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Don't forget all of the hidden costs of this sort of venture. Insurance is a biggie right from the start.
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#47 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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