Bad IT people? Or serious issues?

[Doug5984]

Ok my office is having some serious issues with our network, and since I am low man on the totem pole I've been assigned to try to figure out what the real issues are, and if we need to switch IT people. I figure we have a lot of smart guys around here when it comes to computers so they might be able to help me out a little.

Long story short- our old server was, well old, and getting full so our IT people talked us into upgrading to a new server (we are a very small company so it was a huge investment for us)- we ended up not needing the new server. Our 100gb HD was full, however on the new server we were down to about 65. The problem was something with the backups not working properly and taking up the extra room- we could've waited another year or so for the server- speed was never an issue.

Now since we have the new server everyones computer on our network has come to a crawl. Almost unworkable. Except for mine, my computer is a year old while the others range in age from 3-5 years. Our IT guys are not much help, at first they said the router was the issue and have not done anything to fix it in a couple of months. We're reluctant to call them and get charged a ton, and not have anything fixed.

I guess the real question is- what could be the problem that would cause all the computers to come to a crawl (10 minutes to open a program) once the new server was installed (not immediately, but within a month the slow down began), except for mine. We are running XP. Not sure what other info y'all would need but I can answer any questions and any help would be greatly appreciated so we can get this figured out before tax season starts up.
Is there anything I can try to fix on one computer to see if it helps- should we consult new IT people on this issues.

[BrianD]

The first thing I would try is a large file copy from one of the workstations to the server to test the network itself. Is the data stream fairly consistent? Do you get transfer speeds close to what you would expect from your network? Something as simple as a server network card set to auto-detect for speed could cause a problem if the switch it is connected to can't talk well to it. Speaking of that, do you have the password for your switch? You could also log in to that and check the number of errors.

By your description, I'd guess a workstation fix to probably not be necessary. Sounds like a server or a network issue.

Edit: It also sounds like you are contracting your IT services through a consulting company. If so, you should drop them. If they talked you into a new server because backups were eating unnecessary disk space, they are either incompetent, or they saw your company as an easy mark to sell unnecessary equipment to. Neither is acceptable.

[Alan T]

Without more information or specifics, everything I would say is just a guess or possible places to look. I am not a server or application guy, I am a network engineer so much more familiar with things on that level. Based on your description though, it sounds like you have a core server that hosts various database or parts of applications that are loaded when you actually run the applications from your computer. So each time someone loads an application on their computer, it has to pull data or information from the server to start up correct?

If suddenly the applications started slowing to a crawl when you launch them, and you haven't changed anything on the individual computers, the only thing that changed was the new server, then that seems logical to be the first place to look. I don't understand necessarily how it would be a router issue assuming your systems are all on the same layer2 network (same switch roughly) as the server unless there is something else happening when that application launches that was not clear from your description.

If all that occurs at the launch of the application is your system pulls data from the server, then it sounds like something is slowing down the transfer of that information somehow. Some of the obvious things you can look at are the network card settings of that server vs your local network gear. (ie: make sure both sides of the connection to that server are both set the same. If one side is set at 100Mbps/Full duplex and the other 100Mbps/Half duplex, you could see very poor performance in transfering of large files). Try to see what happens if you actually manually upload or download files from your computer to the server outside of an application.Is the transfer speed fast, or does it go very slowly or error out?

Honestly, this type of issue is the reason why companies need some kind of employee with the ability to troubleshoot them. it could be numerous other things on the server or going on in the environment to cause this problem unfortunately.

[jeff061]

What and when do the systems crawl? On everything and all the time, even if they are not accessing something on the server? What types of applications do you run?

Hard to tell without more information on the environment. Obviously someone dropped the ball on the disk space issue, but like I said, I'm hesitant to make judgments with such little information.

[Doug5984]

The first thing I would try is a large file copy from one of the workstations to the server to test the network itself. Is the data stream fairly consistent? Do you get transfer speeds close to what you would expect from your network? Something as simple as a server network card set to auto-detect for speed could cause a problem if the switch it is connected to can't talk well to it. Speaking of that, do you have the password for your switch? You could also log in to that and check the number of errors.

By your description, I'd guess a workstation fix to probably not be necessary. Sounds like a server or a network issue.

Edit: It also sounds like you are contracting your IT services through a consulting company. If so, you should drop them. If they talked you into a new server because backups were eating unnecessary disk space, they are either incompetent, or they saw your company as an easy mark to sell unnecessary equipment to. Neither is acceptable.

I will try a file copy around lunch when things slow down a bit and see what we can do. I do not have access to the switch, nor would I know where to start for that (what exactly is a switch?)

You are correct on the IT company, and we have talked about that a lot lately.

Without more information or specifics, everything I would say is just a guess or possible places to look. I am not a server or application guy, I am a network engineer so much more familiar with things on that level. Based on your description though, it sounds like you have a core server that hosts various database or parts of applications that are loaded when you actually run the applications from your computer. So each time someone loads an application on their computer, it has to pull data or information from the server to start up correct?

If suddenly the applications started slowing to a crawl when you launch them, and you haven't changed anything on the individual computers, the only thing that changed was the new server, then that seems logical to be the first place to look. I don't understand necessarily how it would be a router issue assuming your systems are all on the same layer2 network (same switch roughly) as the server unless there is something else happening when that application launches that was not clear from your description.

If all that occurs at the launch of the application is your system pulls data from the server, then it sounds like something is slowing down the transfer of that information somehow. Some of the obvious things you can look at are the network card settings of that server vs your local network gear. (ie: make sure both sides of the connection to that server are both set the same. If one side is set at 100Mbps/Full duplex and the other 100Mbps/Half duplex, you could see very poor performance in transfering of large files). Try to see what happens if you actually manually upload or download files from your computer to the server outside of an application.Is the transfer speed fast, or does it go very slowly or error out?

Honestly, this type of issue is the reason why companies need some kind of employee with the ability to troubleshoot them. it could be numerous other things on the server or going on in the environment to cause this problem unfortunately.

All the programs are installed on our local computers, the data and client files are stored on the server, as well as emails and such. A lot of this is over my head but I'll try to do some more research and see what I can come up with.

One thing is- my computer works fine, normal (I do all the same things they do, same programs and all). However all the others are incredibly slow...even when simply opening IE to browse the internet. Would that mean the same thing that mine is transferring correctly, but the rest have slowed significantly.

What and when do the systems crawl? On everything and all the time, even if they are not accessing something on the server? What types of applications do you run?

Hard to tell without more information on the environment. Obviously someone dropped the ball on the disk space issue, but like I said, I'm hesitant to make judgments with such little information.

They crawl on everything, at all times- from opening an email to opening internet exlporer, to opening quickbooks. Even if they are not accessing anything on the server. Most of our applications are accounting programs, quickbooks, and tax programs make up 90% of our work. Other payroll programs, basically large amounts of data but the programs are installed on our local computers.

I appreciate all the help so far, some of it is over my head but some helps us try to figure out what the issue is and how to get it working

[BrianD]

Another thing you might want to try is to right-click on the clock in the bottom right of the computers and select "task manager". Then check out the "Performance" and "Networking" tabs. This will tell you if the computers are slowing down due to high CPU or network traffic. It is possible that the old server was used as a DNS or a WINS server and the workstations are slowing down because they can no longer find it.

[Subby]

What kind of desktop and network and gateway security do you have running there? Do you have a firewall?

[jeff061]

Maybe antivirus acting up, scans slowing everything down.

[Glengoyne]

It could be a helluva lot of things. I think AlanT and jeff may be on the right track regarding a delay in loading applications from a server rather than locally. So their tips may help as a first step.

It could be a server configuration or even a network problem. The network is less likely as with a small company, there are likely to be very few moving parts.

If moving the executables does help...you are still left with a lot of questions, about why it works poorly now when the old server didn't.

Did the older server have a raid configuration with striped disks? Does the new server have a Raid 5 type configuration? Is the network card not properly configured? Is a port on the switch not configured?

Lots of options?

[Doug5984]

Ok I'm going to do some more research on what I can to figure out what we have, what we had, and run some of the more simple tests around lunch to see what I can figure out.
I have to meet with boss man after lunch and kind of give him my take on it (I know the most about computers in the office, which still isn't much). He is also going to ask my take on the IT guys, and I personally think we should switch and get someone else. Am I overreacting there, or are these issues that should have been sorted out as problems started to arise after the new server was installed?

[DaddyTorgo]

i don't think you're overreacting at all - not given what sounds like the relative simplicity of your system (pot calling the kettle black - we have 2 computers and one server in our office), and the abundance of IT folks out there who could handle it.

Find someone who gets the job done right and is responsive and thorough.

[Subby]

UNless you are tied to a contract with that IT group, I would most certainly get a fresh set of eyes in there. Not sure what business you are in, but most professional societies have informal networks that are good for recommendations of this sort.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Maybe antivirus acting up, scans slowing everything down.

That was my first thought - something on the server allowing it to scan network drives after computers connect.

incidentally during the 'slowdown' period is drive light flickering visible on the machines which are slowed (or can you hear the disks being continually accessed).

I presume if they're booted without the network connected then everything runs fine locally? - if so its definitely something which is related to the sever operation and most likely I'd expect either virus checker, email or network configuration related.

Is there anything 'special' about your machines setup (the one you mention wasn't slowed down) - do you have a different email configuration than most of the company for instance or have you failed to install the company virus checker etc.

If you can narrow down that difference you can probably figure out the cause and potential resolution for the issue.

PS - Definitely change IT support companies - if you're resorting to asking people on forums about support rather than contacting them that kinda speaks volumes

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Doug5984

Am I overreacting there, or are these issues that should have been sorted out as problems started to arise after the new server was installed?

You are not overreacting. In fact, if you haven't paid the consulting company yet for the work to set up the new server, I'd even suggest withholding some of the payment. It sure sounds like their work broke your network...so their installation is not done yet.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BrianD

You are not overreacting. In fact, if you haven't paid the consulting company yet for the work to set up the new server, I'd even suggest withholding some of the payment. It sure sounds like their work broke your network...so their installation is not done yet.

I agrees. Likely culprit will be a network that was improperly setup.

[Subby]

You can also get your current IT company to come in and properly install the server on your network. If they are reputable they will not bill you because it wasn't done correctly in the first place.

[Dutch]

If the one thing that has changed is the server, I'm surprised that the IT team didn't know exactly how the old server was setup and then mirror that on the new server. Sounds like they failed to configure something correctly.

Ask them what kind of planning they did...I'm assuming the service level agreement includes time for them to plan...

I'm also surprised that space on the server is running out because of backups. I've never kept backups on my server, so I'm guessing the server also acts as the backup file server? Reorganizing the file server and going after redundant files would probably solve some significant part of freeing up your old space. Of course, backing up server data to somewhere else. (SAN...tape storage, etc...) could also take care of that issue.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Dutch

...

I'm also surprised that space on the server is running out because of backups. I've never kept backups on my server, so I'm guessing the server also acts as the backup file server? Reorganizing the file server and going after redundant files would probably solve some significant part of freeing up your old space. Of course, backing up server data to somewhere else. (SAN...tape storage, etc...) could also take care of that issue.

On the space and backup line of thought. An old version of NetBackup used to write temporary files on servers for the duratoin of the backup. I've seen those files grow and cause problems if they aren't cleaned up for some reason.

[mrsimperless]

It sounds as though there is a reference to the missing server which is resulting in constant network timeouts. Use Process Explorer / Process Monitor to investigate on one of the machines with the problem.