Solium Infernum Released

Galaril · 11-20-2009, 03:08 PM

For anyone that liked the indy game game Armageddon Empires thye have a new game soon to be out any day called Solium Infernum. Here is a promising first impressions with some mighty high praise after 10 hours of playing a final build of the game by Bill Harris at Dubious Quality Blogsite:
http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2...age-notes.html

aran · 11-20-2009, 03:15 PM

I'm quite excited about this game. I can't wait for his play guide.

Armageddon Empires was awesome, as well.

Calis · 11-20-2009, 03:15 PM

I never played the first game beyond the demo but have been following this one closely. Definitely plan on picking it up to play over the holiday weekend.

Looks really intriguing.

Mustang · 11-20-2009, 03:38 PM

Nice.

I loved Armaggedon Empires so, will have to add this to my buy list when it comes out.

Abe Sargent · 11-20-2009, 03:51 PM

I thought Armg Emp was fine

Galaril · 11-25-2009, 09:30 PM

Game is released so hopefully the impressions will be good.

Demo download/buy game is here:
Cryptic Comet - Turn Based Strategy Games

game manual:
http://simanual.s3.amazonaws.com/SI_Manual.pdf

Honolulu_Blue · 11-25-2009, 11:22 PM

This game looks really sweet.

Calis · 11-26-2009, 08:24 AM

After a quick run through the demo I can safely say that reading the manual for this game is not optional.

Going to crack open the PDF of the manual and try it again. There's some great art in there and it seems like a ton of strategic variety, I was just completely lost while trying it.

lighthousekeeper · 11-26-2009, 10:13 AM

+1 . Tried playing the demo without reading the manual and was absolutely lost.

Lonnie · 11-27-2009, 10:04 PM

I got through the demo. Unfortunately it is only 20 turns and not much happens during that time. At the start of the game it seems like a rush for the closest unclaimed Places of Power is the best bet, but you still need income as well. So moving your legion and requesting tribute are the 2 actions you usually take in these early turns.

I attacked an unclaimed Place of Power with a newly hired Legion and they got whooped. Then my closest opponent swooped in and took it while it has 2 hit points left. At that point I was land locked between opponents and rivers. So I started hurling insults at the one that robbed me of my prize. The point was to push them to blood feud or vendetta so that I could enter their lands and take that Place of Power. Well, he was very passive and kept accepting my insults so my prestige grew. At the end of the 20 turns I was in first place mostly from hurling insults at the AI who obviously were not ready for a fight.

It left me wanting more and I could see this as a fun multiplayer or PBEM game. I don't think I even dented the depth. I did hire a Praetor but did not use him. I also created one combat card on a Legion. I have not assembled a full manuscript yet so I don't know how they affect play.

I haven't decided to buy just yet, as I want to try out the demo for Armageddon Empires and possibly buy the two pack at a discount.

aran · 11-27-2009, 10:34 PM

I've decided to hold off for a while. $35 is too much to ask for this game, IMO.

1. The interface is awkward. AE's interface got to me and eventually led me to stop playing. This game's interface seems to have similar problems. Way too much clicking to accomplish simple tasks. In general it seems like the dev barely thought about the interface. If the same mechanics were in a game with a better interface, I would seriously consider buying.

2. AI turns take a while and the AI isn't particularly good. I have a strong suspicion this game was written in flash, which means that there is no way to have the AI thinking while the player is putting in his orders. This means the AI will always be slow--and I can only see it getting slower as the game progresses.

This game is more expensive (almost double the cost!) than AI War... but AI War has significantly better production values. Even though SI's mechanics may be more interesting, I don't see how SI can justify its cost.

Calis · 11-27-2009, 11:15 PM

It surprisingly is made in Adobe Director which I didn't even know existed so yes that's a weakness.

I think the price comparision to Ai War is a case of audiences and competition. Ai War is in a way competing with blockbuster type RTS and to an extent 4x games. This game doesn't have quite the competition in genre at least. Same reason wargames are so damn expensive.

I haven't decided on buying this either. I'm mostly a solo player and I also wasn't impressed by the AI. I love the art though and I think he setting and mechanics are really interesting. It does seem the demo doesn't show much of the game. I get the feeling the real meat is when the territories are defined and the real diplomatic maneuvering begins.

One thing AI War and this have in common is awesome debs who are vocal and helpful. Vic Davis who created this is around several forums and is great about answering questions, making quick fixes, and being receptive to ideas. That attitude has a big effect regarding my buying of indie games. Love that personal nature.

Galaril · 11-28-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aran

I've decided to hold off for a while. $35 is too much to ask for this game, IMO.

1. The interface is awkward. AE's interface got to me and eventually led me to stop playing. This game's interface seems to have similar problems. Way too much clicking to accomplish simple tasks. In general it seems like the dev barely thought about the interface. If the same mechanics were in a game with a better interface, I would seriously consider buying.

2. AI turns take a while and the AI isn't particularly good. I have a strong suspicion this game was written in flash, which means that there is no way to have the AI thinking while the player is putting in his orders. This means the AI will always be slow--and I can only see it getting slower as the game progresses.

This game is more expensive (almost double the cost!) than AI War... but AI War has significantly better production values. Even though SI's mechanics may be more interesting, I don't see how SI can justify its cost.

I agree. The price is not unreasonable if the game's AI was better. It seems like this is strictly a multiplayer game despite Vic's post to the contrary.

Calis · 11-29-2009, 05:25 PM

I ended up buying it this morning, thought I'd take a chance. I have played through the demo 4-5 times beforehand and liked the setting, general mechanics, and art enough to give it a shot.

I've played one game about 50 turns in now and I think the AI concerns are pretty valid. I almost wonder if it is a little bugged. I don't think the AI is terrible, they're just not at all aggressive. I haven't been hit by a demand yet, so it seems like you never have to worry about having an attack happen unless you provoke it.

I have received some pretty nasty "attack" rituals and events from the AI, and they seem to use those pretty effectively. The also seem to be pretty decent with cutting you off in the early rush for territory.

I'm actually not winning this first game, but I'm very narrowly behind the leader and we're way ahead of everyone else so that is a bit worrisome for longevity. There does seem to be a lot of nuances that aren't shown in the demo, with the Infernal Council making decrees and getting a chance to beef up your guy more and using rituals. If Vic can beef up the AI some with being more aggressive and making demands this could be a solid Singleplayer game.

I imagine this would be a blast multiplayer with a bunch of scheming players, but I don't often do that, and the turns are so quickly done in this game I think it'd almost be a chore to play by email.

The AI wait time isn't too bad imo, but it is enoguh to notice and annoying simply because it is simultaneous turns, so that's a technical limitation of the system that is frustrating.

It's a great concept that will hopefully become a great game.

flounder · 11-30-2009, 05:46 AM

One good thing about Vic is that he supports his games. He added major enhancements like the Cults of the Wasteland and the Tip of the Spear to AE well after it was released. I'm sure we'll see improvements to the AI in a new patch.

That being said, I see the same problems with the AI. I think the problem is the single combat system. Right now, the best strategy is to get a super-praetor, insult/demand something from everyone and then beat them all in single combat. Since your praetor levels up after every victory, it's easy to advance him to the point that he's unbeatable. The AI is not nearly aggressive enough in this department (although I saw the computer do it in one game).

My biggest complaint is the tribute card management system. By the end of my games I'm spending minutes at a time searching though a stack of cards looking for the right one. An auto-sort feature would go a long way towards improving the interface.

UPDATE: I just saw that the 1.02 patch is out.

Quote:

AI Fixes

Fixed design error where Turtle type strategies could be generated for all opponents since they represent 25% of the AI Archetypes

Allowed turtle Archetypes to bully weak neighbors and not just runaway leaders

Decreased the threshold for detecting potential runaway leader

Increased stochastic element for AI decision making on Vendetta when projected win rate is close to 50% for some AI sub personalities. in the Aggressive Wrath, Deceit, and Wickedness Archetype categories

I'm not sure how much this will help. They sound like tweaks, not major changes.

Calis · 11-30-2009, 11:21 AM

The tribute card thing is an odd design choice. I guess he was going for making it feel more like emulating a board/card game and organizing things but it can be pretty aggravating if you have a high charisma and it is late game.

It does however save where you place cards and always stacks the new ones on the right-hand side so what I've been doing is creating stacks that mimic how the resources are listed along the top, then just making piles of 1, 2, and 3's for each resource and an area for the multiple resource cards as well. This makes it a lot quicker to deal with and you only have to move the new cards. Now if you forget for a couple turns you're in a mess again, but this does help a lot.

Still I would love an auto-sort or something to simplify this. I like the tribute card system and the fact you have to make decisions on wasting excess resources, but this is a bit needlessly cumbersome.

I'm liking the game more as I play. I think there are a lot of strategic options here and it does a great job of forcing me to really prioritize as I always have way more things I need to do a turn than I have orders. It makes you really think about moving your legions and where, and really think about bidding more on legions/artifacts/praetors because nothing makes you angrier than being outbid and realizing you just completely wasted an order.

I need to do a bit more research on defenses to stuff, because I agree with the powerful Praetor being a great way to go, but the AI seems to be very good about stealing/destroying my Praetors with rituals and event cards. Towards the end of the game I have a hard time keeping them. Seems like the AI is very good at the shadier portion of the game, but weak with the more confrontational.

I'm off today and tomorrow so I plan to give this new patch a whirl and see if I notice a difference.

flounder · 12-01-2009, 06:53 AM

In my first post patch game, I actually had the AI declare vendetta on me. He nuked one of my legions with an event and grabbed 4 hexes from me before I could stop him. He didn't meet his vendetta goals so I ended up gaining prestige, but still it's a step forward.

Lonnie · 12-01-2009, 09:02 AM

That's good news. I'll probably buy it tonight then. I was going to play the demo again on my flight last night, but I had a 5 year old sitting next to me and I really didn't want to scare him with the pictures.

Calis · 12-01-2009, 10:25 AM

I'm noticing definite improvement post-patch. I actually saw the AI making demands and declaring vendettas on other AI's which was a first for me. I'm seeing a lot of legion movement around my borders as well, and while I haven't received any demands yet I also am not winning due to trying a few new things that failed.

Seems like a step forward, and this was minor tweaks. Once he puts some solid time into the AI I think it will be fine. As it stands now I'm having a good time and not completely dominating, but ymmv because most of the issues I have are more self-inflicted than AI inflicted. Goes to show how subjective "good" AI is I guess.

Calis · 12-07-2009, 09:42 AM

A couple things on this game, yesterday version 1.03 was released that has a variety of bug fixes and the big addition of an auto-sort to the tribute card system. It works perfect and saves a lot of time. Just right click down in the tray holding your cards and they will sort.

The other is that I love Indie Games. I ran into a script error on a game I was playing Saturday and sent it to the Dev. About an hour later I received a fix for it that allowed me to continue and he even played a few turns in my game and found some more tweaks he could do to the AI by studying my game.

Was great, and I ended up playing this game a lot over the weekend and pestering him with script errors I ran into. He responded quickly and was always appreciative of the help in fixing things and seeing different scenarios.

It was great to get a response like that and was an instance where bugs actually sold me on buying any future games by a dev.

11-20-2009, 03:38 PM	#4
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	Nice. I loved Armaggedon Empires so, will have to add this to my buy list when it comes out. __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

11-20-2009, 03:51 PM	#5
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	I thought Armg Emp was fine __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

11-25-2009, 09:30 PM	#6
Galaril Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2004	Game is released so hopefully the impressions will be good. Demo download/buy game is here: Cryptic Comet - Turn Based Strategy Games game manual: http://simanual.s3.amazonaws.com/SI_Manual.pdf Last edited by Galaril : 11-25-2009 at 09:58 PM.

11-25-2009, 11:22 PM	#7
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	This game looks really sweet. __________________ *Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). Last edited by Honolulu_Blue : 11-25-2009 at 11:22 PM.*

11-26-2009, 10:13 AM	#9
lighthousekeeper College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	+1 . Tried playing the demo without reading the manual and was absolutely lost. __________________ ...

11-20-2009, 03:15 PM	#2
aran High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA	I'm quite excited about this game. I can't wait for his play guide. Armageddon Empires was awesome, as well.

11-20-2009, 03:15 PM	#3
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	I never played the first game beyond the demo but have been following this one closely. Definitely plan on picking it up to play over the holiday weekend. Looks really intriguing.

11-26-2009, 08:24 AM	#8
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	After a quick run through the demo I can safely say that reading the manual for this game is not optional. Going to crack open the PDF of the manual and try it again. There's some great art in there and it seems like a ton of strategic variety, I was just completely lost while trying it.

11-27-2009, 10:04 PM	#10
Lonnie High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Midlothian, TX	I got through the demo. Unfortunately it is only 20 turns and not much happens during that time. At the start of the game it seems like a rush for the closest unclaimed Places of Power is the best bet, but you still need income as well. So moving your legion and requesting tribute are the 2 actions you usually take in these early turns. I attacked an unclaimed Place of Power with a newly hired Legion and they got whooped. Then my closest opponent swooped in and took it while it has 2 hit points left. At that point I was land locked between opponents and rivers. So I started hurling insults at the one that robbed me of my prize. The point was to push them to blood feud or vendetta so that I could enter their lands and take that Place of Power. Well, he was very passive and kept accepting my insults so my prestige grew. At the end of the 20 turns I was in first place mostly from hurling insults at the AI who obviously were not ready for a fight. It left me wanting more and I could see this as a fun multiplayer or PBEM game. I don't think I even dented the depth. I did hire a Praetor but did not use him. I also created one combat card on a Legion. I have not assembled a full manuscript yet so I don't know how they affect play. I haven't decided to buy just yet, as I want to try out the demo for Armageddon Empires and possibly buy the two pack at a discount. __________________ Lonnie

11-27-2009, 10:34 PM	#11
aran High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA	I've decided to hold off for a while. $35 is too much to ask for this game, IMO. 1. The interface is awkward. AE's interface got to me and eventually led me to stop playing. This game's interface seems to have similar problems. Way too much clicking to accomplish simple tasks. In general it seems like the dev barely thought about the interface. If the same mechanics were in a game with a better interface, I would seriously consider buying. 2. AI turns take a while and the AI isn't particularly good. I have a strong suspicion this game was written in flash, which means that there is no way to have the AI thinking while the player is putting in his orders. This means the AI will always be slow--and I can only see it getting slower as the game progresses. This game is more expensive (almost double the cost!) than AI War... but AI War has significantly better production values. Even though SI's mechanics may be more interesting, I don't see how SI can justify its cost. Last edited by aran : 11-27-2009 at 10:34 PM.

11-27-2009, 11:15 PM	#12
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	It surprisingly is made in Adobe Director which I didn't even know existed so yes that's a weakness. I think the price comparision to Ai War is a case of audiences and competition. Ai War is in a way competing with blockbuster type RTS and to an extent 4x games. This game doesn't have quite the competition in genre at least. Same reason wargames are so damn expensive. I haven't decided on buying this either. I'm mostly a solo player and I also wasn't impressed by the AI. I love the art though and I think he setting and mechanics are really interesting. It does seem the demo doesn't show much of the game. I get the feeling the real meat is when the territories are defined and the real diplomatic maneuvering begins. One thing AI War and this have in common is awesome debs who are vocal and helpful. Vic Davis who created this is around several forums and is great about answering questions, making quick fixes, and being receptive to ideas. That attitude has a big effect regarding my buying of indie games. Love that personal nature.

11-29-2009, 05:25 PM	#14
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	I ended up buying it this morning, thought I'd take a chance. I have played through the demo 4-5 times beforehand and liked the setting, general mechanics, and art enough to give it a shot. I've played one game about 50 turns in now and I think the AI concerns are pretty valid. I almost wonder if it is a little bugged. I don't think the AI is terrible, they're just not at all aggressive. I haven't been hit by a demand yet, so it seems like you never have to worry about having an attack happen unless you provoke it. I have received some pretty nasty "attack" rituals and events from the AI, and they seem to use those pretty effectively. The also seem to be pretty decent with cutting you off in the early rush for territory. I'm actually not winning this first game, but I'm very narrowly behind the leader and we're way ahead of everyone else so that is a bit worrisome for longevity. There does seem to be a lot of nuances that aren't shown in the demo, with the Infernal Council making decrees and getting a chance to beef up your guy more and using rituals. If Vic can beef up the AI some with being more aggressive and making demands this could be a solid Singleplayer game. I imagine this would be a blast multiplayer with a bunch of scheming players, but I don't often do that, and the turns are so quickly done in this game I think it'd almost be a chore to play by email. The AI wait time isn't too bad imo, but it is enoguh to notice and annoying simply because it is simultaneous turns, so that's a technical limitation of the system that is frustrating. It's a great concept that will hopefully become a great game. Last edited by Calis : 11-29-2009 at 05:27 PM.

11-30-2009, 11:21 AM	#16
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	The tribute card thing is an odd design choice. I guess he was going for making it feel more like emulating a board/card game and organizing things but it can be pretty aggravating if you have a high charisma and it is late game. It does however save where you place cards and always stacks the new ones on the right-hand side so what I've been doing is creating stacks that mimic how the resources are listed along the top, then just making piles of 1, 2, and 3's for each resource and an area for the multiple resource cards as well. This makes it a lot quicker to deal with and you only have to move the new cards. Now if you forget for a couple turns you're in a mess again, but this does help a lot. Still I would love an auto-sort or something to simplify this. I like the tribute card system and the fact you have to make decisions on wasting excess resources, but this is a bit needlessly cumbersome. I'm liking the game more as I play. I think there are a lot of strategic options here and it does a great job of forcing me to really prioritize as I always have way more things I need to do a turn than I have orders. It makes you really think about moving your legions and where, and really think about bidding more on legions/artifacts/praetors because nothing makes you angrier than being outbid and realizing you just completely wasted an order. I need to do a bit more research on defenses to stuff, because I agree with the powerful Praetor being a great way to go, but the AI seems to be very good about stealing/destroying my Praetors with rituals and event cards. Towards the end of the game I have a hard time keeping them. Seems like the AI is very good at the shadier portion of the game, but weak with the more confrontational. I'm off today and tomorrow so I plan to give this new patch a whirl and see if I notice a difference.

12-01-2009, 06:53 AM	#17
flounder High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lynchburg, VA	In my first post patch game, I actually had the AI declare vendetta on me. He nuked one of my legions with an event and grabbed 4 hexes from me before I could stop him. He didn't meet his vendetta goals so I ended up gaining prestige, but still it's a step forward.

12-01-2009, 09:02 AM	#18
Lonnie High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Midlothian, TX	That's good news. I'll probably buy it tonight then. I was going to play the demo again on my flight last night, but I had a 5 year old sitting next to me and I really didn't want to scare him with the pictures. __________________ Lonnie

12-01-2009, 10:25 AM	#19
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	I'm noticing definite improvement post-patch. I actually saw the AI making demands and declaring vendettas on other AI's which was a first for me. I'm seeing a lot of legion movement around my borders as well, and while I haven't received any demands yet I also am not winning due to trying a few new things that failed. Seems like a step forward, and this was minor tweaks. Once he puts some solid time into the AI I think it will be fine. As it stands now I'm having a good time and not completely dominating, but ymmv because most of the issues I have are more self-inflicted than AI inflicted. Goes to show how subjective "good" AI is I guess.

12-07-2009, 09:42 AM	#20
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	A couple things on this game, yesterday version 1.03 was released that has a variety of bug fixes and the big addition of an auto-sort to the tribute card system. It works perfect and saves a lot of time. Just right click down in the tray holding your cards and they will sort. The other is that I love Indie Games. I ran into a script error on a game I was playing Saturday and sent it to the Dev. About an hour later I received a fix for it that allowed me to continue and he even played a few turns in my game and found some more tweaks he could do to the AI by studying my game. Was great, and I ended up playing this game a lot over the weekend and pestering him with script errors I ran into. He responded quickly and was always appreciative of the help in fixing things and seeing different scenarios. It was great to get a response like that and was an instance where bugs actually sold me on buying any future games by a dev.

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