Six year old facing eviction..................

[cougarfreak]

Should a 6-year-old girl be evicted? on Gawkk

Interesting problem. Wouldn't this be age age discrimination? I would think the HOA "laws" would be declared unconstitutional if you wanted to get right down to it.

[Abe Sargent]

I hate HOA's and their very concept, but they have been ruled legal again and again, and I'd have to think this would as well.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I hate HOA's and their very concept, but they have been ruled legal again and again, and I'd have to think this would as well.

I recently moved into a community that has an HOA, and it's pretty reasonable. Saying you have to be a certain age? I don't know if that can hold up or not...........what's coming next, a community for ages 40 and up? I don't know..

[RomaGoth]

I think HOA's have their purpose (like not having to look at cars up on blocks in the neighbors yard, right next to his refrigerator and the 24 year old couch on the porch). In short, they keep a neighborhood clean. Some places don't need an HOA to monitor things, and some do. In this case, however, I think the HOA is out of line. Unfortunately, they are probably within their rights, as Abe Sargent said, and nothing can be done about it.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I think HOA's have their purpose (like not having to look at cars up on blocks in the neighbors yard, right next to his refrigerator and the 24 year old couch on the porch). In short, they keep a neighborhood clean. Some places don't need an HOA to monitor things, and some do. In this case, however, I think the HOA is out of line. Unfortunately, they are probably within their rights, as Abe Sargent said, and nothing can be done about it.

So, if age can be used, then what stops an HOA from using race, or excluding gays, etc? Theoretically, someone can buy a large piece of property, and start a community like that, just if the HOA says so?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

I recently moved into a community that has an HOA, and it's pretty reasonable. Saying you have to be a certain age? I don't know if that can hold up or not...........what's coming next, a community for ages 40 and up? I don't know..

Umm ... you do realize that age-restricted communities are already pretty common, right? Although 55+ is one of the two legal options exempted under housing laws (62+ is another alternative).

Here's just one articlehttp://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...9.story?page=1 highlighting 32 of these developments built around Chicago from 07-08.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My goodness, this story goes back more than two years (I'm assuming the Today piece is new), check out the April 2, 2007 dateline here.
Florida Community Sues to Evict Three Year-Old - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... you do realize that age-restricted communities are already pretty common, right? Although 55+ is one of the two legal options exempted under housing laws (62+ is another alternative).

Here's just one articlehttp://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...9.story?page=1 highlighting 32 of these developments built around Chicago from 07-08.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm, so, it's ok to discriminate as long as it's declared "legal". You do know we used to do that with African Americans too? It was legal back then too. Cracks me up.....some places it's "legal" to discriminate for age, and other places, you can get sued for for the same discrimination.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm, so, it's ok to discriminate as long as it's declared "legal". You do know we used to do that with African Americans too? It was legal back then too. Cracks me up.....some places it's "legal" to discriminate for age, and other places, you can get sued for for the same discrimination.

Don't blame me, talk to Congress.

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

So, if age can be used, then what stops an HOA from using race, or excluding gays, etc? Theoretically, someone can buy a large piece of property, and start a community like that, just if the HOA says so?

The HOA has nothing to do with why it's legal, that's a federal act that allows for a couple of exemptions to federal housing laws in order to allow for age-controlled communities. If not for that then the HOA couldn't withstand challenge.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

So, if age can be used, then what stops an HOA from using race, or excluding gays, etc? Theoretically, someone can buy a large piece of property, and start a community like that, just if the HOA says so?

Laws stop it.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Don't blame me, talk to Congress.

I'm not blaming anyone, I just think it's absurd.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

I recently moved into a community that has an HOA, and it's pretty reasonable. Saying you have to be a certain age? I don't know if that can hold up or not...........what's coming next, a community for ages 40 and up? I don't know..

You've never been to Florida have you?

Lots of covenants there are age restricted. Lots of times, not only do the owners need to be 65+, but quite often children are restricted from living there, 'living' spelled out as sleeping there more than X consecutive nights.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

I'm not blaming anyone, I just think it's absurd.

S'okay, I think it's absurd that the government can dictate who you have to sell your house to so I guess we're kind of even.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

S'okay, I think it's absurd that the government can dictate who you have to sell your house to so I guess we're kind of even.

To be fair, if the sellers decide not to accept an offer based on race, the government cannot do anything about it. Any real estate offer can be rejected - none of the forms I ever signed even had a place for a reason.

The government, does not, in practice, tell people who they have to sell their house to. Where those laws come into practice is they won't let the HOA/neighbors tell a seller they cannot sell to someone - an idea I would think you'd be in favor of.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

S'okay, I think it's absurd that the government can dictate who you have to sell your house to so I guess we're kind of even.

My Grandmother was placed in a nursing care home a few years ago, and my father, the executor of her estate, canceled the insurance on her house, because whether it burnt down or not, the sale of the house after she died would have to be applied retroactively to reducing the state's burden. I'm sure the law made sense when someone thought about it in theory, but the result is that insurance is canceled, no keep takes care of property, and so forth, because there is no incentive to do so.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Samdari

To be fair, if the sellers decide not to accept an offer based on race, the government cannot do anything about it. Any real estate offer can be rejected - none of the forms I ever signed even had a place for a reason.

The government, does not, in practice, tell people who they have to sell their house to. Where those laws come into practice is they won't let the HOA/neighbors tell a seller they cannot sell to someone - an idea I would think you'd be in favor of.

You're right, I shorthanded my complaint. My largest objection is indeed with regard to how the feds treat landlords, not sellers.

[RomaGoth]

A little off topic but not totally, if you refuse to take off your clothes can a nudist community evict you?

[larrymcg421]

Even as one of the resident crazy liberals, I'm not sure I see the problem here. There is obviously a good reason to have age restricted communities, which is why the law has such exceptions in the first place. Sure, it sucks for the little girl but her grandparents knew this (or should have known) before they brought her in.

Racal restrictions are not only illegal, but even without the law, they wouldn't work because no court could enforce such a restriction, since such enforcement would be state action and state action cannot violate the 14th Amendment.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Even as one of the resident crazy liberals, I'm not sure I see the problem here. There is obviously a good reason to have age restricted communities, which is why the law has such exceptions in the first place. Sure, it sucks for the little girl but her grandparents knew this (or should have known) before they brought her in.

I'm agree.

Much ado about nothing here. Manufactured outrage over a reasonable community setup.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Even as one of the resident crazy liberals, I'm not sure I see the problem here. There is obviously a good reason to have age restricted communities, which is why the law has such exceptions in the first place. Sure, it sucks for the little girl but her grandparents knew this (or should have known) before they brought her in.

+2

I think the fact she may be placed in foster care is absurd, but the other members of the community had a certain expectation when they moved in there. How is it fair to them that one member is clearly violating it? IMO if they let her stay it sets a precedent that is the complete opposite of the whole reason the community exists in the first place.

[DanGarion]

So what's the problem here? It's a retirement community.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Even as one of the resident crazy liberals, I'm not sure I see the problem here. There is obviously a good reason to have age restricted communities, which is why the law has such exceptions in the first place. Sure, it sucks for the little girl but her grandparents knew this (or should have known) before they brought her in.

+3, kind of.

It would be one thing if this was a fairly recent development and the HOA was reacting in a knee-jerk manner. But this situation is now several years old which surely is plenty of time for the grandparents to sell the house and move. I know it's not an ideal situation for them, and presumably taking care of a grandchild isn't an ideal situation for them, but life isn't fair.

[heybrad]

My parents live in a retirement community and from what I've seen, Seinfeld portrayed things pretty well. These people live for enforcing the rules that they've set up.

[RendeR]

This is precisely why I will never buy a homw with any stipulations regarding an HOA, if I really want the home I'll buy it and the HOA can kiss my ass, I won't join nor am I legally bound to do so or abide by anything they decree. Unless I do so.

If the HOA can't see the situation, understand the situation and come to an agreement with the family then its a worthless group truth be told.

I despise groups of people trying to lord themselves over others. Makes me ill.

[stevew]

They need to sell the house and move on.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This is precisely why I will never buy a homw with any stipulations regarding an HOA, if I really want the home I'll buy it and the HOA can kiss my ass, I won't join nor am I legally bound to do so or abide by anything they decree. Unless I do so.

If only it was this easy...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This is precisely why I will never buy a homw with any stipulations regarding an HOA, if I really want the home I'll buy it and the HOA can kiss my ass, I won't join nor am I legally bound to do so or abide by anything they decree. Unless I do so.

If the HOA can't see the situation, understand the situation and come to an agreement with the family then its a worthless group truth be told.

I despise groups of people trying to lord themselves over others. Makes me ill.

but as far as I know the HOA was in place when they purchased the home, so what's the argument?

They let this go and they may as well throw all the bylaws out the window. People purchased their homes in that community with the knowledge there were rules in place and expecting them to be enforced. Someone is breaking the rules and the residents are expecting the HOA to take action. Whats the problem?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

but as far as I know the HOA was in place when they purchased the home, so what's the argument?

They let this go and they may as well throw all the bylaws out the window. People purchased their homes in that community with the knowledge there were rules in place and expecting them to be enforced. Someone is breaking the rules and the residents are expecting the HOA to take action. Whats the problem?

Oh I'm sure the grandparents probably signed up happily. Never knowing a life changing event might occur. Just because there are rules in place doesn't make the universe black and white. Based on this economy, the fact that the child faces foster-care if she can't stay with the grandparents, I'd say the HOA ought to take things into consideration and work out a compromise, but then again, I could be wrong and they could be complete fuckwits about it and do nothing but cause this family financial difficulty and possible ruin as they try to sell a house in this day and age.

They're already in the problem as they were already members. The rest of my ranting was my own disgust at HOA's trying to force anything on anyone that does not choose to abide. They are not laws, they are guidelines. HOA's cannot make laws they cannot impose fines (and ever expect to collect on them) they are not government entities. They are, in general, a bunch of people who think they know how everyone else OUGHT to live and try to force them to do so.

[RendeR]

Personally I hope some lawyer takes up the grandparents case and ties up the HOA forever and a fucking day. Be nice to see just how long the community wants to pay for the fight instead of creating a closer knit community and trying to help support a family in such a shit position.

Its bsaically the fact that they see hardship and say "fuck you, get out" instead of trying to actually BE a community. Its pathetic.

[Lathum]

Why/ How is foster care being threatened then if the HOA has no way of enforcement?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Based on this economy, the fact that the child faces foster-care if she can't stay with the grandparents

The grandparents could move to a non-age-restricted community. Sure, there was a life-changing event, but that means the new caretakers need to make changes, too. To me this is like folks buying a house near the airport then demanding the flight patterns change...

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Why/ How is foster care being threatened then if the HOA has no way of enforcement?

Because they agreed to it. They're members, perhaps I wasn't being clear. I ranted about telling the HOA to fuck off and not joining in the first place when buying a home.

The grandparents are already screwed as I stated, they GAVE the HOA such ability (I'm assuming).

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

The grandparents could move to a non-age-restricted community. Sure, there was a life-changing event, but that means the new caretakers need to make changes, too. To me this is like folks buying a house near the airport then demanding the flight patterns change...

Not even close to the same situation, you're dealing with a government agency in your comparison, these folks are not.

I just find it utterly pathetic that something designed to HELP a community turns on their own when an issue comes up they don't want to deal with. Makes them (the HOA members) out to be a bunch of selfish ass knackers.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Because they agreed to it. They're members, perhaps I wasn't being clear. I ranted about telling the HOA to fuck off and not joining in the first place when buying a home.

The grandparents are already screwed as I stated, they GAVE the HOA such ability (I'm assuming).

aha. Got it.

FWIW that makes no sense to me. How can any such organization exist as voluntary. I would love to hear from Flasch on this one.

[larrymcg421]

There are very good reasons for communities to have age restrictions like this. I usually take the other side in these situations, but here it makes complete sense for senior citizens to not want young kids running around in their community. I mean, at what point do you draw the line? She gets to stay there forever?

It's an awful situation for the girl, but if they're really going to take up the responsibility for raising her, then they have to make the decision to find a community where they can do that.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

aha. Got it.

FWIW that makes no sense to me. How can any such organization exist as voluntary. I would love to hear from Flasch on this one.

I guess my biggest question is, how can any home buyer be "forced" to join an HOA? When we were looking there were a number of places that had some sort of rider attached saying we "had" to join the HOA and pay the yearly fees and everything just to buy the house.

How the fuck can that be legal?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

There are very good reasons for communities to have age restrictions like this. I usually take the other side in these situations, but here it makes complete sense for senior citizens to not want young kids running around in their community. I mean, at what point do you draw the line? She gets to stay there forever?

It's an awful situation for the girl, but if they're really going to take up the responsibility for raising her, then they have to make the decision to find a community where they can do that.

They're threatening to EVICT them, why the hell can't they just make a stipulation that the family can stay until their house sells and they can manage the move properly? Fucking threatening someone over this situation? Talk about people that need their lawns bleached....holy fuck.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by RendeR

They're threatening to EVICT them, why the hell can't they just make a stipulation that the family can stay until their house sells and they can manage the move properly? Fucking threatening someone over this situation? Talk about people that need their lawns bleached....holy fuck.

But they (the grandparents) don't want to do that. As Jon pointed out, this has been going on for two years. They've had plenty of time to sell the house and move.

[stevew]

They're trying to sell the house for 130k it looks like(down almost 100k from original price). Can't the HOA just pool its resources, buy the home, and get them out. Seems like a better solution then spending a lot of money on legal fees, anyways.

This has been going on for 5 years.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

They're already in the problem as they were already members. The rest of my ranting was my own disgust at HOA's trying to force anything on anyone that does not choose to abide. They are not laws, they are guidelines. HOA's cannot make laws they cannot impose fines (and ever expect to collect on them) they are not government entities. They are, in general, a bunch of people who think they know how everyone else OUGHT to live and try to force them to do so.

Originally Posted by RendeR

I guess my biggest question is, how can any home buyer be "forced" to join an HOA? When we were looking there were a number of places that had some sort of rider attached saying we "had" to join the HOA and pay the yearly fees and everything just to buy the house.

How the fuck can that be legal?

so you were quoting the bolded like it was fact and now you are asking how can it be legal. Not trying to be obtuse, but do you really know how they work?

Originally Posted by RendeR

They're threatening to EVICT them, why the hell can't they just make a stipulation that the family can stay until their house sells and they can manage the move properly? .

Where is the incentive to ever move?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

aha. Got it.

FWIW that makes no sense to me. How can any such organization exist as voluntary. I would love to hear from Flasch on this one.

when he gets off the shitter

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RendeR

why the hell can't they just make a stipulation that the family can stay until their house sells and they can manage the move properly?

Umm ... because they don't want to live next to a fucking 6 year old?

And because everyone involved agreed they wouldn't have to, including the grandparents who've now introduced one to the community?

And because everyone paid a premium for the right to avoid having to do so?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

so you were quoting the bolded like it was fact and now you are asking how can it be legal. Not trying to be obtuse, but do you really know how they work?




Where is the incentive to ever move?

People can willfully join an HOA, I've never denied that fact. People who do join them are bound only in as much as they allow themselves to be bound by whatever by-laws their HOA sets forth.

An HOA still cannot fine someone and ever expect to collect on that fine unless the person charged willfully gives it to them. Their only recourse would be small claims court and claiming breach of contract. It would still cost the HOA more than the fine they wanted to collect.

I'm questioning the legality of being FORCED to join the HOA when you buy a home. Unless the actualy HOA owns the property you're buying I can't for the life of me see how the HOA could legally force you to join their association if you in fact did not want to?

Thats the legality I'm questioning. perhaps I need a new thread because I'm pretty off the main thread topic here.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... because they don't want to live next to a fucking 6 year old?

And because everyone involved agreed they wouldn't have to, including the grandparents who've now introduced one to the community?

And because everyone paid a premium for the right to avoid having to do so?

+1, since I don't get to do this often.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by RendeR

People can willfully join an HOA, I've never denied that fact. People who do join them are bound only in as much as they allow themselves to be bound by whatever by-laws their HOA sets forth.

An HOA still cannot fine someone and ever expect to collect on that fine unless the person charged willfully gives it to them. Their only recourse would be small claims court and claiming breach of contract. It would still cost the HOA more than the fine they wanted to collect.

I'm questioning the legality of being FORCED to join the HOA when you buy a home. Unless the actualy HOA owns the property you're buying I can't for the life of me see how the HOA could legally force you to join their association if you in fact did not want to?

Thats the legality I'm questioning. perhaps I need a new thread because I'm pretty off the main thread topic here.

These people are lucky that the HOA hasn't put a lien on the property as they do here in CA when there are excessive ongoing violations...

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... because they don't want to live next to a fucking 6 year old?

And because everyone involved agreed they wouldn't have to, including the grandparents who've now introduced one to the community?

And because everyone paid a premium for the right to avoid having to do so?

Oh look a jon-ism.

You know what? I'm not even going to bother. Life isn't fair. Too bad someone in their community met with a life-crisis. Wah fucking Wah. Community, people, human beings and their lives are more important than the petty rule makings that people come up with. Not that I ever expect you to agree with me on that.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

These people are lucky that the HOA hasn't put a lien on the property as they do here in CA when there are excessive ongoing violations...

Again a case of being mind boggling baffled at how that can even be legal.

"We don't like the color of your fence, it needs to be painted"

"Fuck you"

"We're taking your house, get out"

makes SO much sense.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Again a case of being mind boggling baffled at how that can even be legal.

"We don't like the color of your fence, it needs to be painted"

"Fuck you"

"We're taking your house, get out"

makes SO much sense.

But it's all laid out before you purchase the property. I'm right there with you and think it's a bunch of BS, but if you sign a contract you have to adhere to it, instead of pussying out of it.

[larrymcg421]

Once again, nothing about this rule is petty.

[gstelmack]

HOAs are treated like mini governments within a city, that's how they have this legal right. You sign a contract to live there, you have to live by that contract. If you don't want to have them tell you how to paint your fence, go live in the county or find a different neighborhood, it's that simple.

In my case I live in a pretty laid-back HOA. When the board got uppity, we threw them out (they changed management companies to a new one run by the former treasurer, who charged more and then started riding his bike around the neighborhood to write people up; that lasted until the next board meeting). I'm willing to let a lot slide, so I found an HOA that also lets a lot slide, without letting things go completely. Mostly our HOA tends sidewalks and public areas. Other folks want more restrictions. People had reasons for not wanting to live near noisy kids (and as a parent, I don't blame them, I moved into a family neighborhood with lots of other kids). Now I can go along with your "maybe the HOA should buy out the house" suggestion, but this is several years old and the folks still have not moved, sooner or later they need to get tough.