When I read this...

[SackAttack]

...why is my overwhelming sentiment on the matter "Supercilious, vacciliating, self-centered assholes"?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe...ers/index.html

Unwilling to do the hard stuff, but oh-so-willing to mop up afterwards and take the credit. I don't know why that should anger me so, but it does.

[mrskippy]

That's not the worst of it. The Coalition expects to find proof that the French, or at least French companies, supplied the Iraqi regime in violation of UN resolutions -- possibly material for Iraq's planes and other stuff. That's when we find out why they didn't want us there to begin with.

[Easy Mac]

and what happens when they find proof that the chemical weapons, tanks, guns and other weapons were supplied by the US during the 80's?

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
and what happens when they find proof that the chemical weapons, tanks, guns and other weapons were supplied by the US during the 80's?

Before the order to disarm? Nothing.

[ACStrider]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
and what happens when they find proof that the chemical weapons, tanks, guns and other weapons were supplied by the US during the 80's?

Does this point still have to be made? My goodness. Ok, to put back in perspective. In the second world war, were we justified in sending aid to the Soviet Union prior to our involvement, or were we to sit aside and watch the German tanks roll over the plains of Russia? Opinion of the Soviet empire was very low before we became reluctant allies, but sometimes you have to make pacts with one evil to counter a greater evil. Let it go.

[Easy Mac]

Skippy said France has aided Iraq with weapons and planes. They are still using the shit we aided them with. You can't have that kind of double standard.

All you people try to do here is spread your "America is never wrong, France is evil" bullshit. Read Skippy's post, then respond to mine.

[Aylmar]

Wait...the American army sold T-82s to the Iraqis? Do the Russians know?

[Qwikshot]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
Skippy said France has aided Iraq with weapons and planes. They are still using the shit we aided them with. You can't have that kind of double standard.

All you people try to do here is spread your "America is never wrong, France is evil" bullshit. Read Skippy's post, then respond to mine.

I am assuming that Skippy means during sanctions...if they supplied weapondry to Iraq during U.N. sanctions, then yes, that would be a violation wouldn't it?

[Easy Mac]

I haven't seen any evidence they've done this.

[Easy Mac]

Also, heres a BBC link that I think at least lends an idea to the french perspective:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/crisis_in_the_gulf/decision_makers_and_diplomacy/58568.stm

[Hammer755]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
I haven't seen any evidence they've done this.

I read an oped piece a couple of weeks ago in the NY Times where the author had obtained evidence (a series of e-mails) that France had funneled a rocket fuel component to Iraq in 2002 from China through Syria. Chirac was asked about it on 60 Minutes and he denied it furiously, but the e-mails this guy obtained seemed very incriminating.

I apologize that I can't get the link, but it is now in the NY Times archive, which is subscription only, which I don't have.

Edit - Here is the link in case anyone has a subscription and would like to read the piece.

[mrskippy]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
and what happens when they find proof that the chemical weapons, tanks, guns and other weapons were supplied by the US during the 80's?

We gave Iraq weapons yes, but I don't think they were chemical. And last I checked, I've not seen on American weapon in Iraqi hands. By the way here is the quote Reagan used to justify in supporting Iraq:

"An enemy of my enemy is my friend." ... that was based on an old Arabic saying.

[SackAttack]

It's less a matter of who gave what to whom in my view. Rather, it boils down to the fact that these three nations wanted no part of removing Saddam, yet they fully expect that they should be an integral part of rebuilding the country.

I don't have any illusions - nor should anybody else - that their stance on the matter is anything remotely approaching a grand humanitarian gesture. Rather, I suspect it's largely economic. They were unwilling to make the financial sacrifice necessary for security, yet they want to reap the financial rewards inherent in having companies based in those countries receive contracts to rebuild the infrastructure. Honestly, I'd rather have seen the whole process be a global one, but it really smacks of two-facedness for these nations to expect that they can throw out the peas and string beans and only eat the ice cream, as it were.

Josh

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
Skippy said France has aided Iraq with weapons and planes. They are still using the shit we aided them with. You can't have that kind of double standard.

1. US sales of weapons were BEFORE the sanctions, therefore legal.
2. French sales of weapons were AFTER the sanctions, therefore illegal.

Got it?

[mrskippy]

Exactly what I meant. The US sold weapons in the 80s, though I still haven't seen any American weapons in Iraqi hands. Most of it is Russian weaponry from 30 or 40 years ago.

France, Russia and China have sold them stuff since 1991. That is a clear violation of the trade embargo, which only allows the trade of essential material (food, medicine, and humanitarian stuff).

BTW What weaponry does Iraq have now that is American? I think most of it was used up in the Iran-Iraq war and whatever left probably wiped in Gulf War I.

[Easy Mac]

Where is there proof or documentation or anything that says France has sold/given weapons to iraq. Everything I've seen said "French companies" having given around 1000 cars and rebuilt telephone towers that they owned. Nowhere have I seen weapons, except in the ultta-conservative sites.