Steve McNair-HOF or Not?

stevew · 07-05-2009, 11:47 PM

Time for another one of the patented FOFC "HOF or Not" threads. Nothing like using the player most currently in the news.

the stats-

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...M/McNaSt00.htm

My vote would be no

RendeR · 07-06-2009, 12:00 AM

If he were a RB or a LB with his story and playstyle? sure, but as a QB? he simply doesn't rack up with the greats, not even close.

RainMaker · 07-06-2009, 12:15 AM

I'd say no too. His career was cut short by injuries and he's only a 3-time Pro Bowler. Was on some nice teams and was a solid starting QB but was never a guy you feared.

Danny · 07-06-2009, 12:18 AM

I voted probably deserves it as a quick knee jerk vote without thinking about it, but no he doesn't really belong in the hall.

Cringer · 07-06-2009, 12:48 AM

I went with probably, but I won't take offense if he doesn't. Kind of like my stance has been on Derrick Thomas.

bhlloy · 07-06-2009, 01:15 AM

Yeah, on a knee jerk reaction I'd say may make it in eventually. Looking at the stats, not even close. Only really a top-10 passer 3 times in his career with '03 being the only time he was elite.

stevew · 07-06-2009, 01:22 AM

I'm actually thinking I should have gone with the "hell no" option instead of the other negative one. But I let the fact that he killed the steelers cloud my judgement.

JAG · 07-06-2009, 05:46 AM

Did he ever have any great WR's to work with? Mason was pretty solid, Wychek was pretty good at TE, but other than that I can't think of any great targets he had to help generate stats. Nevertheless, I always thought he was a very good QB, but not a HOF one.

RedKingGold · 07-06-2009, 07:23 AM

Nope, he only belongs in the Hall of Very Good (god I hate Skip Bayless).

Honolulu Blue · 07-06-2009, 07:33 AM

Close but not quite, IMO.

fantom1979 · 07-06-2009, 07:57 AM

Not sure how you can compare Art Monk and Steve McNair. In my mind, Monk is one of the top 10 or 15 receivers of all time, while McNair might be in the top 50 quarterbacks...

Warhammer · 07-06-2009, 08:31 AM

I really liked the way he played and thought he was a very good QB. However, he was not an all-time great. He certainly had the tools to be up there, but Fisher's conservative offense held him back quite a bit early in his career.

Swaggs · 07-06-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantom1979

Not sure how you can compare Art Monk and Steve McNair. In my mind, Monk is one of the top 10 or 15 receivers of all time, while McNair might be in the top 50 quarterbacks...

Agreed. I don't see why Monk gets crapped on so much. There are far worse players in the Hall of Fame.

Chubby · 07-06-2009, 08:52 AM

Why is this a poll? Voted absolutely no way.

Toddzilla · 07-06-2009, 08:57 AM

not close - getting shot and killed while you're young does not enhance one's HOF credentials.

wade moore · 07-06-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

Why is this a poll? Voted absolutely no way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

not close - getting shot and killed while you're young does not enhance one's HOF credentials.

Yup and yup.

The only reason this is coming up is because of the dramatic circumstances surrounding his death.

kcchief19 · 07-06-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Nope, he only belongs in the Hall of Very Good (god I hate Skip Bayless).

Then again, that's really what the Pro Football Hall of Fame is. Way too many guys get in.

There are 23 modern era quarterbacks in the Hall and in both yardage and passer rating McNair is 28th. I'm not saying those are the best measuring sticks of a QB, but just for comparison sakes. He's short of that.

Are their worse QBs in the Hall? Yes. Check out Bob Griese. If McNair played with a half dozen Hall of Famers and played for a Hall of Fame coach, he'd be in there too. If Kevin Dyson had got one more yard, we'd probably be putting him in.

wade moore · 07-06-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchief19

If Kevin Dyson had got one more yard, we'd probably be putting him in.

Because taking a Super Bowl to OT gets you in the Hall of Fame now?

Samdari · 07-06-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'd say no too. His career was cut short by injuries and he's only a 3-time Pro Bowler. Was on some nice teams and was a solid starting QB but was never a guy you feared.

Sure he was, but really only for his last 3 years with the Titans.

No on pure performance, with a potential yes based on how reporters liked him, now negated by the "shot to death by your 20 year old girlfriend" angle.

RomaGoth · 07-06-2009, 11:34 AM

No way does he belong in the HOF. In fact, I would argue that he will be remembered more for how he died than for anything he did on the football field.

ColtCrazy · 07-06-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Agreed. I don't see why Monk gets crapped on so much. There are far worse players in the Hall of Fame.

I agree...I said no because I think Monk deserves the Hall. McNair is in the Hall of Very Good. Productive QB that knew how to win, but even his Co-MVP was controversial because he missed a few games that year. I'll remember him for some great games with the Colts, but his death may overshadow most of his career.

Sun Tzu · 07-06-2009, 11:48 AM

Again, any poll that does not have a trout option is not on the level.

That being said, I voted "absolutely no way"

He was a good QB sometimes, and not a good QB other times. His numbers are above average at best. He was inconsistent throughout his career, and he in no way, shape, or form had a real impact on the game of football during his career.

Steve Young
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning

Those are Hall of Fame QB's that played at the same time as McNair. I'm not going to say that this shouldn't even be a poll, but I don't see how anybody who isn't a homer is going to vote yes.

RedKingGold · 07-06-2009, 12:28 PM

Is Randall Cunningham a Hall of Famer?

If no, then you can't possibly put McNair in.

Galaril · 07-06-2009, 12:38 PM

I say definitely yes for the simple reason he was one of only three QBs to rush for over 3500 yards on the ground and pass for over 30,000. He was number #28 passer of alltime but with some of the other things like his winning record , lack of any receivers most of the time, being with a very conservative coach and his rushing numbers he will be in............That being said I am sure he would care less at this point too sad.

MikeVic · 07-06-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Is Randall Cunningham a Hall of Famer?

If no, then you can't possibly put McNair in.

Yeah this makes sense to me.

Sun Tzu · 07-06-2009, 01:02 PM

I think you could make a much stronger arguement for Cunningham than McNair though. Cunningham had a pretty strong impact on the game during his career, whereas I doubt McNair is even going to be remembered as one of the best QB's of his time, let alone of all time. McNair had one great year, which was flanked on all sides by mediocre to sub par years. Meanwhile Cunningham had several good-great years, one of which he nearly broke the century mark in Rushing Yards while still throwing for 3400+ yards.

MikeVic · 07-06-2009, 01:03 PM

Yeah, so if Cunningham isn't in the Hall, how can McNair be?

albionmoonlight · 07-06-2009, 01:13 PM

He led a team to the Super Bowl. He really managed to maximize the value of being a quarterback who could run (as opposed to a fast guy who couldn't really play quarterback). He won an MVP.

Overall, I think that he is the classic case for the Hall of Very Good. For the reasons listed by others here, I don't see him in the Hall of Fame.

Autumn · 07-06-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade moore

Yup and yup.

The only reason this is coming up is because of the dramatic circumstances surrounding his death.

I don't think so at all, I"ve seen this same discussion over at Football Outsiders long ago. I voted No, but he's one of those guys that some people think should get in, I guess.

stevew · 07-06-2009, 01:36 PM

The only reason I started the poll was cause we were talking about this issue on another sports forum. I thought the idea of him being a HOFer was pretty far fetched, but I wondered what the opinion here might be.

Autumn · 07-06-2009, 04:59 PM

I think it's pretty common for people watching a certain era of sport to inflate the players that had a big impact while they were watching. It takes a while to get any perspective, and the HoF debates show that the perspective never quite answers the questions.

Galaril · 07-06-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think it's pretty common for people watching a certain era of sport to inflate the players that had a big impact while they were watching. It takes a while to get any perspective, and the HoF debates show that the perspective never quite answers the questions.

Good point I had this argument the other day with a colleague in which I was arguing with him that in ten years no one will even be able to name a player other than Brady that played on any of the Patriot championship teams from this decade. It will be Brady and a bunch of guys. So, I do see your point as a valid one.

MizzouRah · 07-06-2009, 09:11 PM

Probably not.. but after hearing former Rams DT De'Marco Farr today on ESPN radio talk about how he was the one QB he played against that physically wore him out to the point he had to come out of the game just to keep from breaking down.. I wouldn't be upset if he was in the HOF.

JAG · 07-06-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril

Good point I had this argument the other day with a colleague in which I was arguing with him that in ten years no one will even be able to name a player other than Brady that played on any of the Patriot championship teams from this decade. It will be Brady and a bunch of guys. So, I do see your point as a valid one.

Vinateri. But other than him, I agree with your point.

Suburban Rhythm · 07-06-2009, 09:28 PM

Based on the criteria of winning a regular season MVP, making (and losing) a Super Bowl, and some Pro Bowl selections...we should also be talking about Rich Gannon, who has more passing TDs, a little bit lower yardage, and slightly higher passer rating.

And nobody would ever make a case for Rich Gannon.

So, no.

Autumn · 07-06-2009, 11:48 PM

Here's a pretty good summary of McNair's work as a QB, I think.

Smarter Stats: Steve McNair: A Statistical Retrospective - The League at washingtonpost.com

Grammaticus · 07-07-2009, 06:53 AM

I really liked him as a solid team player and great quarterback. Just don't see the HOF stats or enough intangible performance to get him in.

Abe Sargent · 07-07-2009, 07:55 AM

I think he will get in. The tragedy of his early death will cause people to over-emphasize his strentths and under-emphasize his weaknesses.

fantom1979 · 07-07-2009, 09:05 AM

I wish that profootballreference.com had a player comparison feature like baseballreference.com has. I was just looking through some other players that had numbers close to McNair. The closest I could find in a quick search was Mark Brunell.

McNair: 31304 Passing Yards, 211 total Tds, 119 int, 3590 rushing yards
Brunell: 31826 Passing Yards, 197 total Tds, 106 int, 2433 rushing yards

Galaril · 07-07-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I really liked him as a solid team player and great quarterback. Just don't see the HOF stats or enough intangible performance to get him in.

I think the whole thing about him being one hell of a tough bastard which seems from the games of saw of him and what so mnay players say about him is a factor that may get him in. Cowherd had a good point on the radio in that Football and the HOF is not run by complete stat nerds like basbeball so that plays to his favor.

SteveMax58 · 07-07-2009, 06:08 PM

I'm still waiting for the "Steve McNair: HOT or NOT" parody thread.

Atocep · 07-07-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril

Cowherd had a good point on the radio in that Football and the HOF is not run by complete stat nerds like basbeball so that plays to his favor.

I wish this was true.

Grammaticus · 07-07-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril

I think the whole thing about him being one hell of a tough bastard which seems from the games of saw of him and what so mnay players say about him is a factor that may get him in. Cowherd had a good point on the radio in that Football and the HOF is not run by complete stat nerds like basbeball so that plays to his favor.

I agree the pro football hall of fame is better about not just resting on stats. Problem is, he would have to win like Bradshaw. Mcnair only went to one super bowl and they lost. If he had been successful in winning that one with his version of "the drive", then he may have a chance.

I think he misses it. But he was still a standout QB in the NFL and that is something to be proud of.

View Poll Results: Steve McNair
Most certainly a Hall of Famer(first couple ballots)	3	2.65%
Probably deserves to make it eventually(3-15 years after eligibility)	12	10.62%
Don't think he's a worthy canidate, but he's more qualified than Art Monk, so whatever.	39	34.51%
Absolutely no way	59	52.21%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

07-06-2009, 12:48 AM	#5
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	I went with probably, but I won't take offense if he doesn't. Kind of like my stance has been on Derrick Thomas. __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

07-06-2009, 11:48 AM	#22
Sun Tzu Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In the thick of it.	Again, any poll that does not have a trout option is not on the level. That being said, I voted "absolutely no way" He was a good QB sometimes, and not a good QB other times. His numbers are above average at best. He was inconsistent throughout his career, and he in no way, shape, or form had a real impact on the game of football during his career. Steve Young Brett Favre Peyton Manning Those are Hall of Fame QB's that played at the same time as McNair. I'm not going to say that this shouldn't even be a poll, but I don't see how anybody who isn't a homer is going to vote yes. __________________ I'm still here. Don't touch my fucking bacon. Last edited by Sun Tzu : 07-06-2009 at 11:48 AM.

07-06-2009, 01:02 PM	#26
Sun Tzu Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In the thick of it.	I think you could make a much stronger arguement for Cunningham than McNair though. Cunningham had a pretty strong impact on the game during his career, whereas I doubt McNair is even going to be remembered as one of the best QB's of his time, let alone of all time. McNair had one great year, which was flanked on all sides by mediocre to sub par years. Meanwhile Cunningham had several good-great years, one of which he nearly broke the century mark in Rushing Yards while still throwing for 3400+ yards. __________________ I'm still here. Don't touch my fucking bacon. Last edited by Sun Tzu : 07-06-2009 at 01:03 PM.

07-06-2009, 09:28 PM	#35
Suburban Rhythm Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pittsburgh	Based on the criteria of winning a regular season MVP, making (and losing) a Super Bowl, and some Pro Bowl selections...we should also be talking about Rich Gannon, who has more passing TDs, a little bit lower yardage, and slightly higher passer rating. And nobody would ever make a case for Rich Gannon. So, no. __________________ "Do you guys play fast tempos with odd time signatures?" "Yeah" "Cool!!"

07-06-2009, 12:00 AM	#2
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	If he were a RB or a LB with his story and playstyle? sure, but as a QB? he simply doesn't rack up with the greats, not even close. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

07-06-2009, 12:15 AM	#3
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	I'd say no too. His career was cut short by injuries and he's only a 3-time Pro Bowler. Was on some nice teams and was a solid starting QB but was never a guy you feared.

07-06-2009, 12:18 AM	#4
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	I voted probably deserves it as a quick knee jerk vote without thinking about it, but no he doesn't really belong in the hall.

07-06-2009, 01:15 AM	#6
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	Yeah, on a knee jerk reaction I'd say may make it in eventually. Looking at the stats, not even close. Only really a top-10 passer 3 times in his career with '03 being the only time he was elite.

07-06-2009, 01:22 AM	#7
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I'm actually thinking I should have gone with the "hell no" option instead of the other negative one. But I let the fact that he killed the steelers cloud my judgement.

07-06-2009, 05:46 AM	#8
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	Did he ever have any great WR's to work with? Mason was pretty solid, Wychek was pretty good at TE, but other than that I can't think of any great targets he had to help generate stats. Nevertheless, I always thought he was a very good QB, but not a HOF one.

07-06-2009, 07:23 AM	#9
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	Nope, he only belongs in the Hall of Very Good (god I hate Skip Bayless).

07-06-2009, 07:33 AM	#10
Honolulu Blue Dynasty Boy Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Michigan	Close but not quite, IMO.

07-06-2009, 07:57 AM	#11
fantom1979 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sterling Heights, Mi	Not sure how you can compare Art Monk and Steve McNair. In my mind, Monk is one of the top 10 or 15 receivers of all time, while McNair might be in the top 50 quarterbacks...

07-06-2009, 08:31 AM	#12
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	I really liked the way he played and thought he was a very good QB. However, he was not an all-time great. He certainly had the tools to be up there, but Fisher's conservative offense held him back quite a bit early in his career.

07-06-2009, 08:52 AM	#14
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	Why is this a poll? Voted absolutely no way.

07-06-2009, 08:57 AM	#15
Toddzilla Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burke, VA	not close - getting shot and killed while you're young does not enhance one's HOF credentials.

07-06-2009, 12:28 PM	#23
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	Is Randall Cunningham a Hall of Famer? If no, then you can't possibly put McNair in.

07-06-2009, 12:38 PM	#24
Galaril Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2004	I say definitely yes for the simple reason he was one of only three QBs to rush for over 3500 yards on the ground and pass for over 30,000. He was number #28 passer of alltime but with some of the other things like his winning record , lack of any receivers most of the time, being with a very conservative coach and his rushing numbers he will be in............That being said I am sure he would care less at this point too sad.

07-06-2009, 01:03 PM	#27
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	Yeah, so if Cunningham isn't in the Hall, how can McNair be?

07-06-2009, 01:13 PM	#28
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	He led a team to the Super Bowl. He really managed to maximize the value of being a quarterback who could run (as opposed to a fast guy who couldn't really play quarterback). He won an MVP. Overall, I think that he is the classic case for the Hall of Very Good. For the reasons listed by others here, I don't see him in the Hall of Fame.

07-06-2009, 01:36 PM	#30
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	The only reason I started the poll was cause we were talking about this issue on another sports forum. I thought the idea of him being a HOFer was pretty far fetched, but I wondered what the opinion here might be.

07-06-2009, 04:59 PM	#31
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I think it's pretty common for people watching a certain era of sport to inflate the players that had a big impact while they were watching. It takes a while to get any perspective, and the HoF debates show that the perspective never quite answers the questions.

07-06-2009, 09:11 PM	#33
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	Probably not.. but after hearing former Rams DT De'Marco Farr today on ESPN radio talk about how he was the one QB he played against that physically wore him out to the point he had to come out of the game just to keep from breaking down.. I wouldn't be upset if he was in the HOF.

07-06-2009, 11:48 PM	#36
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Here's a pretty good summary of McNair's work as a QB, I think. Smarter Stats: Steve McNair: A Statistical Retrospective - The League at washingtonpost.com

07-07-2009, 06:53 AM	#37
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	I really liked him as a solid team player and great quarterback. Just don't see the HOF stats or enough intangible performance to get him in.

07-07-2009, 07:55 AM	#38
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	I think he will get in. The tragedy of his early death will cause people to over-emphasize his strentths and under-emphasize his weaknesses. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

07-07-2009, 09:05 AM	#39
fantom1979 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sterling Heights, Mi	I wish that profootballreference.com had a player comparison feature like baseballreference.com has. I was just looking through some other players that had numbers close to McNair. The closest I could find in a quick search was Mark Brunell. McNair: 31304 Passing Yards, 211 total Tds, 119 int, 3590 rushing yards Brunell: 31826 Passing Yards, 197 total Tds, 106 int, 2433 rushing yards

07-07-2009, 06:08 PM	#41
SteveMax58 College Starter Join Date: Dec 2006	I'm still waiting for the "Steve McNair: HOT or NOT" parody thread.

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