Le Tour - 2009 Edition

[DaddyTorgo]

I originally got into watching this because my hetero-lifemate used to be/is a bigtime cyclist and Tour watcher, but I enjoy watching it on its own now. Although sometimes the Versus coverage can be interminable, but that's why DVR is great for watching it.

Great win for Cavendish on Stage 2 today in the sprint. Picture-perfect setup by Team Columbia, that's for sure!

*bless you DVR for letting me recordificate this everyday*

[thealmighty]

If there were no DVR I don't think I could take watching this now (I've been watching Le Tour for 20 years so I know the pain without it).

I think if Lance were to finish in the top 10 that would be a remarkable feat, though I'm sure he'd be pissed as hell.

[Sgran]

yesterday was a great, underrated sports day with the tour and Wimbledon at the same time.

The tour climbing stages are some of the best TV you can find. People pushing their limits with cuts of French towns and countryside. Great stuff.

[DaddyTorgo]

i enjoy the scenic cuts away to the countryside and the wide-angle shots, that was what originally kept me watching, but now as i've watched i've become a much more aware cycling fan and can watch for the sport of it.

so frankly, kudos to the TV-coverage for teaching as well as entertaining.

[terpkristin]

Been watching when I can. I have DVR but I get way too backlogged, so I'm catching the "recap" shows in the evenings on VS.

I'd like Lance to do well, but I'm really not cheering for anybody this year. I want to see good racing. One year I'm going to go to France to check it out.

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

jeezus - if Armstrong was on Columbia he'd have another Tour de France for sure...they are an AMAZING team. It's early, but they've been perfect so far.

[WheelsVT]

Astana is arguably one of the best teams ever. But for Armstrong to get complete team leader status Contador would have to falter in the mountains which I don't see happening... if Armstrong could beat him in the TTs that may work. The intra-squad dynamic will be interesting to watch.

Columbia is looking the strongest b/c they have the best leadout train in the world for the best sprinter in the world. They were totally committed to the stage win the past 2 days for Cav. In terms of GC potential I think Saxo Bank may be the best positioned, but they're using some stength to keep Fabian in yellow this week. I think that will come back to hurt them later.

[WheelsVT]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i enjoy the scenic cuts away to the countryside and the wide-angle shots

Seeing the aqueducts in HD really impressed me yesterday. I had no idea how big they were! The scenic shots are that much more impressive now that they are so vivid.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by WheelsVT

Astana is arguably one of the best teams ever. But for Armstrong to get complete team leader status Contador would have to falter in the mountains which I don't see happening... if Armstrong could beat him in the TTs that may work. The intra-squad dynamic will be interesting to watch.

Columbia is looking the strongest b/c they have the best leadout train in the world for the best sprinter in the world. They were totally committed to the stage win the past 2 days for Cav. In terms of GC potential I think Saxo Bank may be the best positioned, but they're using some stength to keep Fabian in yellow this week. I think that will come back to hurt them later.

Fair enough - I hadn't done my pre-race looking into things (it always sneaks up on me) so I wasn't aware of the entire team's composition. The intra-squad dynamic there is going to be...amusing/interesting. Especially in light of yesterday where Contador whiffed on joining the breakaway group and it cost him 40 seconds.

You're right about Columbia of course, and obviously it's skewed by the composition of the first couple stages, but their leadout work (along with their attitude yesterday in saying "well if nobody else is going to go after the pacemakers and bring them back to the pack then f*ck you all, we will ourselves" has been flawless. Obviously helps to have a sprinter who can finish, but you can't ask for more from them.

[WheelsVT]

I got a big kick out of it too. George Hincapie and the Columbia guys punished the other sprinter's teams and were very aware of the course conditions to put on a great show of strength. Very exciting for what looked to be "just another flat stage".

[WheelsVT]

For those wanting some links to video:
2009 Tour de France Live Video, TV, Route, Results, Photos, Teams, Preview, and Latest Updates

And I like to follow cyclingnews' text live updates:
http://live.cyclingnews.com/1.html

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by WheelsVT

I got a big kick out of it too. George Hincapie and the Columbia guys punished the other sprinter's teams and were very aware of the course conditions to put on a great show of strength. Very exciting for what looked to be "just another flat stage".

yeah. i'd been consciously avoiding spoilers all day so it was quite the unexpected thrill to watch them just all-of-a-sudden decide to pull away and throw things into another gear.

[DaddyTorgo]

damn - hell of a TTT by Astana today!

4 of the top 5 are Astana riders now, and Armstrong is 0.22 seconds behind Cancellara.

Going to be interesting to see how Contador and Armstrong go in the mountain stages here and who the team chooses to put forward.

[WheelsVT]

Very tough stage. Crazy roads to be riding TT bikes on. The contenders definitely lost time yesterday.

Today's stage...

Spoiler

Very happy for Voekler getting a stage win for all the French fans out there. Big happening today was with Gesink loosing 9 minutes. That's one outside GC hope that is now out of it. He'll have to focus on the climber's jersey... if he starts tomorrow.

[WheelsVT]

Stage 7 to Andorre

Spoiler

Astana really whipped up the pace and dropped Cancellara. Some thought he would hang on, but I had my doubts. Then Contador counter-attacks and drills it to the finish putting 20s on the lead group. That, unfortunately for us LA supporters, means that he leapfrogs over Lance and firmly establishes himself as the team leader and overall man to beat. I suppose that is his rightful place, but I'll continue to hope. Lance actually looked a little weak on the early part of the climb - grimacing and such. But he held all the contenders and I'm sure he'll improve as the tour moves on. The only way he'll reverse his position on the team as 2nd leader is if Contador has a very bad day or he whips him in a TT.

[DaddyTorgo]

I really want to buy Cyanide's PCM 2009 game. Apparently you can DL and play without Starforce and it's like the only cycling management game. but it's a good like $40-somethin bucks and there's no demo...

[Glengoyne]

There used to be a demo...for the cycling manager. I bought a few years back. I enjoyed it...but I really sucked.

[DaddyTorgo]

hehe. i feel like that's what'd happen with me - i'd enjoy it but suck at it. lol

[whomario]

for all you watching for the scenery : Today is going to be epic. I travelled arround that area by bike and train a couple years back after i was done with school and regularly prolongued my stops along the road to the point that i had to cut a couple stops elsewhere ... Weather is supposed to be great, too. Too bad it was rainy when they got to Barcelona

For the Race : I have a hard time really watching for the sport with all the confirmed doping cases the last couple of years. Actually was an avid follower of the sport year round (also bike a lot myself) but the last 2 years lost track and now hardly can tell what to expect with all the changes (Is it just me or has literally every team changed it´s name the last 2 years ?) .
If Armstrong wins it it will be a strange day for the sport. As much as i respect him for him coming back from cancer (actually have his first book at home and really read it religiously), but the doping accusations have a good deal of truth to it as far as i know ...
And sitting out that long, then coming back and win the hardest race (one of the toughest sporting events, period) isn´t would be deemed unrealistic at the least in any video game

for the Cyanide game : I loved the old versions, played Cyling Manager 3 for hours without stops. Then my Computer couldn´t take the requirements anymore and i haven´t started again ...

[WheelsVT]

I have last year's version, but am tempted to get this year's. Last year I loved the in-race play, but felt the career mode ran too slowly or was too complex. Although what should I expect when it's not like other sports with a set league schedule. My fav in game moment was when I got one of the Garmin guys the Australian national RR jersey with a daring solo escape over a short climb 10k from the finish after wearing down the bunch with another rider in a day-long break that was caught with 20k to go. For the rest of the season that guy's mood was always "over the moon"

[DaddyTorgo]

i think my system specs should be able to handle it - i see there's some issues with GeForce cards, but I mean I have a GeForce Go 7600 so I think I'm okay

[DaddyTorgo]

FYI I just found a demo for PCM 08 online that you can DL to try out. Apparently the graphics requirements are the same as 2009 so it should run and should let people know if they want to mess with it.

WorthPlaying :: Pro Cycling Manager: Tour De France 2008

[DaddyTorgo]

well i'm not THAT horrible. just got 15th overall in a mountain-stage (without reading the manual at all) after 6-7 tries to work on figuring it out.

[DaddyTorgo]

So, my take on the Cyanide game, after messing around with it yesterday all afternoon: inconclusive.

I never managed to better my 15th place finish (given that was with Sanchez from the 2008 Euskatel team, so we're not exactly talking a world-beater). Never managed to replicate anything close to it either.

I'm not sure I (or most people for that matter) understand how to effectively and easily move riders. There's a lot of griping on some of the forums about how the "hold position" button results in your riders slipping through to the back of the peleton on climbs rather than you know...holding their position. And the "short relay" button seems to be buggered as well.

I will prolly hold off and see how the patching addresses any of these, or whether somebody does a nice writeup for dummies.

[WheelsVT]

When you set "hold" you have to set the effort slider as well. They will hold their position as long as the effort required does not go over the slider setting. So on the key mountain I'd slide it all the way to 99 and hit hold. Of course you run the risk of blowing up that way so 90 or so is a better idea... now that I think about it, there's a tutorial in the full version that walks you through a few things.

[WheelsVT]

The weekend's mountain stages had the climbs so far from the finish. I agree with Paul and Phil that the organizers were probably thinking about keeping the race close until the last week while designing stages that will allow other teams and racers to be showcased. It's been fun watching it either way.

How about Schleck having the mechanical outside the 3km limit? Jens Voight (one of my favorite riders) did a great job of getting him back on. Jens was in a break, dropped on the climb, carried water bottles, then pulled Andy back. Awesome.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by WheelsVT

When you set "hold" you have to set the effort slider as well. They will hold their position as long as the effort required does not go over the slider setting. So on the key mountain I'd slide it all the way to 99 and hit hold. Of course you run the risk of blowing up that way so 90 or so is a better idea... now that I think about it, there's a tutorial in the full version that walks you through a few things.

there's a tutorial in the demo that walks you through like 3 things - do you recall if the manual in the full version is any good, or is it junk?

i'd really love to buy this game, but i'll need a manual to walk me through the controls and basically help me figure out how to win.

for instance - it was only at the end of the night last night that i discovered that setting the effort to 99 and hitting "hold" wouldn't burn out their green bars too fast...i had just assumed that it would.

or that i needed to amp up the effort on attacks.

so what's standard strategy...assume position in the peleton with 99 effort and hit "hold" and then use the "attack" or "effort slider" buttons ("move to dot" as the forum-folk call it) in order to move up?

and my guys always run out of water, i'm still not sure how to send someone back for water and then have them relay the water up to the team...is that "infinite relay?"

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by WheelsVT

The weekend's mountain stages had the climbs so far from the finish. I agree with Paul and Phil that the organizers were probably thinking about keeping the race close until the last week while designing stages that will allow other teams and racers to be showcased. It's been fun watching it either way.

How about Schleck having the mechanical outside the 3km limit? Jens Voight (one of my favorite riders) did a great job of getting him back on. Jens was in a break, dropped on the climb, carried water bottles, then pulled Andy back. Awesome.

they pulled Andy back into it so fast, i was amazed. it was like...in the blink of an eye.

was nice to see the two guys who were in the breakaway all day hold on for the 1-2 (particularly the french guy in first). i always feel like those guys "deserve it" for doing so much of the work.

[whomario]

that´s a part i really enjoy about cycling, that obvious and immediate effect of teamwork. It really is that much of a difference between riding together and riding alone.
As for Schleck/Voigt : They were inside the car-line luckily, that is a major helper to get back to the peloton. Still impressive though obviously. And yeah, Voigt is one of the most impressive flat-surface riders and just like a locomotive in those situations.

[DaddyTorgo]

ugh - horrible exchange rates mean the game is like $50 right now

[scooter]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

ugh - horrible exchange rates mean the game is like $50 right now

Not to take this thread too far off topic, but Steam has the game for $35.99 right now. That's a lot better than $50. I haven't bought anything on Steam, but plenty of others seem to think it is great.

As for the tour, I'm really looking forward to the Alps. I was disappointed the tour "wasted" the Col d' Aspin and the Col du Tourmalet in the middle of stages. I know they don't want to blow the race apart in the first week, but a little drama would be nice.

[WheelsVT]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

there's a tutorial in the demo that walks you through like 3 things - do you recall if the manual in the full version is any good, or is it junk?

i'd really love to buy this game, but i'll need a manual to walk me through the controls and basically help me figure out how to win.

for instance - it was only at the end of the night last night that i discovered that setting the effort to 99 and hitting "hold" wouldn't burn out their green bars too fast...i had just assumed that it would.

or that i needed to amp up the effort on attacks.

so what's standard strategy...assume position in the peleton with 99 effort and hit "hold" and then use the "attack" or "effort slider" buttons ("move to dot" as the forum-folk call it) in order to move up?

and my guys always run out of water, i'm still not sure how to send someone back for water and then have them relay the water up to the team...is that "infinite relay?"

I played the Milan-San Remo in the full (2007) version that I own last night. Forgot to look for a manual though. I'll look tonight.

I got Brajevic in a 10man break that stayed away (up to 17min at one point). He ran out of energy 20k from the finish and fell off the back so I sent 3 other Discovery boys to the front to try and catch the break but it was too late. I slowed my guys on the front and attacked with Hincapie at 10k to go. He passed a crawling Brajevic at 300m, and held off the field for 10th. That was fun.

Setting the slider and hold order means that the rider will hold their position as long as it doesn't require more effort than the slider setting. So if it could be set at 99 but if it only uses 60 then he uses 60. I usually have guys ride at effort to move up in the pack to avoid the splits and then set them to hold there until I need them. There's always an early move so I like to send a half-way decent guy to the very front to wait for it and then attack with them so other teams work while my guys get a free ride.

The relay orders tell them how to paceline. Short relay = standard pull, Infinite relay = pull until you're passed?, Effort = Go at that effort.

there is no way to get more water bottles. Once they're gone your guy bonks. That's why it's key to set the slider as low as possible and still make it to the end. For example, when I noticed Brajevic's energy running out too fast I switched him from "short relay" to hold @ 65 so he stopped pulling and sat on the back of the break. Unfortunately, when a few in the group attacked he fell off the wheel, and I didn't ramp up his effort fast enough to hold it. I tried to have him chase back on by ordering him to go at effort 99 but he blew up just before catching them on the final climb and rolled home.

I've never really been able to work a sprint lead-out, or win the Tour, but I seem to usually be able to get my leader to finish near the front consistently with a lucky break working sometimes. I see the new version has "energy gels" and probably has some better gameplay tweaks.

[WheelsVT]

Originally Posted by scooter

Not to take this thread too far off topic, but Steam has the game for $35.99 right now. That's a lot better than $50. I haven't bought anything on Steam, but plenty of others seem to think it is great.

As for the tour, I'm really looking forward to the Alps. I was disappointed the tour "wasted" the Col d' Aspin and the Col du Tourmalet in the middle of stages. I know they don't want to blow the race apart in the first week, but a little drama would be nice.

Yep, sorry. Should stay on topic... although it seems just a few of us watching this one.

Agree about wasting the climbs in terms of GC drama, but it made for good racing that gave the non-GC teams a chance to make something happen for their sponsors. Good races... can't wait for the main event!

[DaddyTorgo]

got the didn't get to watch yesterday's stage so i'll have plenty to watch tonight.

picked up the game last night too. as if i didn't have enough games to occupy my free time

[BishopMVP]

Been watching, don't have much unique to add. Everyone's trying to focus on Contador/Lance and I was curious if one was a better time trialer/if there is a time trial left? Could that be the difference or is going to be an attack in the Alps that decides it? Definitely disappointing that the last 2 climbs were not near the end after Contador's move the first day in the Pyrenees.

Other tangentially related question for French/European people. Do they specifically resurface the routes the Tour riders are competing on or do they really have no potholes like that on most roads? I know German roads and the Autobahn in particular were better that US roads because they were designed with thicker asphalt to support tanks, but the difference between the French roads and the pothole filled ones here is quite stark. Tour de Massachusetts would certainly have a few more random crashes in it.

[DaddyTorgo]

*le sigh* i got to watch like half of yesterday's stage and none of today's before i was rudely interrupted.

[WheelsVT]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Been watching, don't have much unique to add. Everyone's trying to focus on Contador/Lance and I was curious if one was a better time trialer/if there is a time trial left? Could that be the difference or is going to be an attack in the Alps that decides it? Definitely disappointing that the last 2 climbs were not near the end after Contador's move the first day in the Pyrenees.

Other tangentially related question for French/European people. Do they specifically resurface the routes the Tour riders are competing on or do they really have no potholes like that on most roads? I know German roads and the Autobahn in particular were better that US roads because they were designed with thicker asphalt to support tanks, but the difference between the French roads and the pothole filled ones here is quite stark. Tour de Massachusetts would certainly have a few more random crashes in it.

They both are good time trialists although I think Lance may be better at the longer distances or courses without "punchy" climbs like stage 1. Either way it'd be a close race. Team tactics dictate that you support the guy with the best time. Right now with it so close they're both protected. Stages 15-17 are mountain stages that will affect the time difference between them and who works for who. The TT on stage 18 will be the showdown and last chance for the roles to reverse before the "queen stage" up Ventoux where the whole race will be decided.

I think the other contenders at this point are just racing for a podium position... there may be only one left since Astana could have 2 of them with LA and Contador. Wiggins and Vandevelde from Garmin are the underdogs I'll pull for, and they're in good position right now. Andy Schleck of CSC is promising, but he's still young and just lost a climber (Arveson) due to a crash yesterday which really hurts when going up against Astana. Evans and Sastre are now outside chances after loosing so much time in the TTT.

[Edit] All that changes if Lance or Contador cracks as some point or something unforeseeable happens.

I know that they do resurface some of the mountain passes for the tour, but I'd be surprised if they did it for every stage... perhaps it's up to the host cities to prepare the area?

[WheelsVT]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

picked up the game last night too. as if i didn't have enough games to occupy my free time

OT: Last night I ran the Paris-Roubaix with Discovery and wouldn't you know I got George Hincapie the win! Best race I've ever done in the game.

[WheelsVT]

Have to say that my dark horse pick is Nibali from Liquigas.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I know German roads and the Autobahn in particular were better that US roads because they were designed with thicker asphalt to support tanks..........

Actually, that's not the main reason. Any part of the Autobahn showing significant cracks is immediately taken out and the entire slab of concrete is replaced between the expansion joints. They don't even let it get to the point where it becomes a pothole. Of course, they do that because a car going 200 MPH could pretty easily wreck even on the smallest of uneven cracks or *gasp* a pothole.

[kmbgolf]

i was wondering how many tuitorials they have in 09...because i just tried the 08 demo they had three tutorials but me being such a NEWB I AM STILL CLUELESS

[DaddyTorgo]

kmb - i have not seen any tutorials in 2009 strangely enough. Maybe haven't looked in the right place. The manual is helpful...I'm still losing with my poorer riders as I try to learn how to finish the race properly (guys ahead going into the sprint with good energy left but sprinting too soon and being caught from behind and finishing 11th/12th overall). But that's not too bad considering it was my "B" team and my strongest rider was not that good, and definately wasn't a sprinter.

I will make a thread for the game tonight I suppose.

I did manage to place 5th in the Team Time Trial on my first shot with my "A" team, so that's something.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by WheelsVT

OT: Last night I ran the Paris-Roubaix with Discovery and wouldn't you know I got George Hincapie the win! Best race I've ever done in the game.

Hincapie laid a whooping on my "B" team in the Tour of Australia, because I screwed up the sprint at the end. Still got 2 guys in the Top 15. One was my climber (not bad for a flat course) and the other was a guy who's like a 70 overall.

I've cracked the top 10 I think...twice in my first 10 races. But I'm learning. I have learned to hold back and not try to pull back the breakaway on my own but to let the peleton close with them and then break of the peleton with like under 10k left and plenty of energy. I just can't seem to hold anybody off in a sprint...maybe i should just try attacking the finish or "ride to effort 99".

and fyi wheels - at least in 99 you can re-food your guys. You just click on one guy in the same "group" (breakaway/peleton/whatever) and he drops back to the car and then brings it forward to everyone.

I have a shitty Chinese rider who's a 50-overall and cost me 3k just for that purpose. He's my water-bitch.

[WheelsVT]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

and fyi wheels - at least in 99 you can re-food your guys. You just click on one guy in the same "group" (breakaway/peleton/whatever) and he drops back to the car and then brings it forward to everyone.

I have a shitty Chinese rider who's a 50-overall and cost me 3k just for that purpose. He's my water-bitch.

Given that we're in a lull of flat stages this off topic discussion is just as interesting as 90% of the past 2 stages. Hearing that you can do the waterboy thing is great. I'll have to get the new version. How is the career mode? Does it sim pretty fast and are negotiations etc pretty straight forward?

TdF: Cav and his leadout are tops (go Hicapie), and Farrar would have had him yesterday if he didn't have to go all the way around Hushovd on the left while the road turned right.

Today's course looks destined for a breakaway I think but time will tell.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by WheelsVT

Given that we're in a lull of flat stages this off topic discussion is just as interesting as 90% of the past 2 stages. Hearing that you can do the waterboy thing is great. I'll have to get the new version. How is the career mode? Does it sim pretty fast and are negotiations etc pretty straight forward?

TdF: Cav and his leadout are tops (go Hicapie), and Farrar would have had him yesterday if he didn't have to go all the way around Hushovd on the left while the road turned right.

Today's course looks destined for a breakaway I think but time will tell.

I suppose that's true. I made a thread for the game yesterday anyways though.

I haven't gotten deep enough into my career to have to deal with negotiations. From what I saw on the boards though people were saying that the career mode is in some sense less-robust than in 2008, in terms of bidding for riders and such. But I haven't gotten there to be able to tell yet, and I didn't play 08 to know. You can prolly find discussion on the boards about that though - either the official ones or the ones at pcmdaily.net (or .com or whatever it is...pcm daily is the site)

As I mentioned in the other thread, I brought Cancellara to victory in the Tour of Qatar last night. Valverde should have had second but I messed up on a finish with him where he would have won the stage and got the necessary time because I had him and Zabriskie pull away from the breakaway too far out. I discovered that on those sprint stages if you want to win with a non-sprinter you should absolutely not try to sprint with the sprinters but should instead pull away somewhere around 10-8k at effort 99 and build yourself a gap that they can't close. Unfortunately I had done too much work with Valverde or pulled away a hair too early or too late and got caught in that one. So he ended up 3rd in the overall standings.

Creating a team works like this - you select your "asset level" basically (higher assets = less chance of scouting new young riders and higher expectations).

My first team I started "Team John Hancock" I selected the maximum asset level. My team looks like this: Cancellara, Valverde, Kim Kirchen, Theo Bos, Domenico Pozzovivo, David Zabriskie, Blake Caldwell, and a bunch of young scrubs (my waterboys and rabbits).

[whomario]

Hey guys, today could be a fun stage with great scenery again. Route is going through the Vosges Mountains near the german border of France. It´s an up and down stage. No big climbs but some decent ones with the last summit 20 KM from the finish line.
Stage for attackers.

[terpkristin]

Levi Leipheimer is out, broken wrist.

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

d'oh. there's a hit

[WheelsVT]

Shoot. I inadvertently heard the news about Levi when looking to see what the weather would be like for today's stage. At least I don't know anything about today yet. I'm avoiding all spoilers until I can watch it tonight.

New thread rule- if talking about the events of the current day use the spoiler tag so DT and others that don't watch till later don't have their 3hrs of TV watching spoiled. Shall we say spoiler free discussion of the current day can begin after 11pm since that's when the prime time coverage ends?

[DaddyTorgo]

wouldn't that make us essentially a day behind in the discussion?

i suppose that's fine though. we can still have spoilery discussion of today on today

3hrs of tv watching? with the dvr once i skip all the blabber and ignore the post-finish half hour it's maybe...45 mins to an hour.