A real outrage

clintl · 04-02-2003, 10:08 AM

How the hell can a school district justify this kind of crap? Censorship is not education, it is the forced deprivation of education.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...rs_suspended_2

Hammer755 · 04-02-2003, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by clintl
How the hell can a school district justify this kind of crap? Censorship is not education, it is the forced deprivation of education.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...rs_suspended_2

The sad part is that this is how school administrations spend their time, not worrying on improving the education of the children, but determining the best way to cover their own butts.

CamEdwards · 04-02-2003, 10:14 AM

I think the district was concerned about the controversial nature of the artwork (on both sides). I agree with you however, in that high school students should be mature enough to engage in a debate about the war.

Of course, you'd think adults would be mature enough to engage in a debate about the war, but many of the protests have proven that theory wrong.

JPhillips · 04-02-2003, 10:29 AM

I see both sides of this. On the one hand the admin should be confident enough in the teachers to allow a debate about what may be one of the most important policy decisions in the past twenty years. These aren't little children, they are high school students. Some of them will be leaving high school soon and joining the armed forces. If they are old enough to go to war and die for their country they are old enough to debate about the war.

On the other hand the admin is probably rightly concerned about this art being criticized as anti-American leftist propoganda. Its not hard to imagine O'Really or Hannity or Rush blasting the school for allowing leftist teachers to display pro-Saddam artwork. I'm sure the admin doesn't want to be running a school labeled pro-terrorist by rabid talking heads.

Easy Mac · 04-02-2003, 10:30 AM

As have FoxNews's anchors and talk shows. Damn man, quit spitting out your partisan bullshit when it doesn't even belong in whats being talked about.

clintl · 04-02-2003, 10:34 AM

If you will note, one of the teachers specifically said that the posted artwork contained both pro-war and anti-war messages. So I don't see where the Fox News anchors would have much of a case.

Easy Mac · 04-02-2003, 10:35 AM

sorry, meant that for Cam and not Jphill, I dont post fast enough

Fritz · 04-02-2003, 10:41 AM

Clint,

We have a (well defended) segment of the population that demands the schools be kept free of religion in all shapes and forms. Why not something like this as well?

GoldenEagle · 04-02-2003, 10:44 AM

I think this is absurd and a knock on both teachers and students. People are allowed to express their opinion. But then again, I think religion should be allowed in school too.

CamEdwards · 04-02-2003, 10:46 AM

Easy,

Quit trying to trample my freedom of speech. That's completely un-American and hawkish of you.

clintl · 04-02-2003, 10:48 AM

This is not religion, therefore there is no 1st Amendment Establishment Clause issue involved. It is a political debate.

Fritz · 04-02-2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by clintl
This is not religion, therefore there is no 1st Amendment Establishment Clause issue involved. It is a political debate.

Come on, you can do better than that.

clintl · 04-02-2003, 11:02 AM

Actually I don't think that schools need to be completely free of religion. I just think that schools need to be completely free of endorsing any particular religion. Voluntary student expressions (like extracurricular clubs, valedictorian speeches, etc) are OK with me. Classroom prayer, invocations, benedictions, proselytizing teachers and administrators, etc., are not.

In addition, I think students are ill-served if religion and its impacts (good and bad) on society are ignored in history and social science courses. And I think it would be very helpful to us all if the education system covered the beliefs and differences between the major religions. Maybe then, we would have a little less religious bigotry (although the right wingers that want our school system to be extensions of evangelical Christian churches would not be happy at all with that).

Is that better, Fritz?

Fritz · 04-02-2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by clintl
Is that better, Fritz?

Much. Thank you.

FWIW, I more or less agree with you.

One comment I would make on War, religion, politics, and such is that they should support education and not distract from it. There is a lot of weight on the teachers to make sure this happens, and that may be asking too much.

04-02-2003, 10:14 AM	#3
CamEdwards Stadium Announcer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burke, VA	I think the district was concerned about the controversial nature of the artwork (on both sides). I agree with you however, in that high school students should be mature enough to engage in a debate about the war. Of course, you'd think adults would be mature enough to engage in a debate about the war, but many of the protests have proven that theory wrong. __________________ I don't want the world. I just want your half.

04-02-2003, 10:29 AM	#4
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	I see both sides of this. On the one hand the admin should be confident enough in the teachers to allow a debate about what may be one of the most important policy decisions in the past twenty years. These aren't little children, they are high school students. Some of them will be leaving high school soon and joining the armed forces. If they are old enough to go to war and die for their country they are old enough to debate about the war. On the other hand the admin is probably rightly concerned about this art being criticized as anti-American leftist propoganda. Its not hard to imagine O'Really or Hannity or Rush blasting the school for allowing leftist teachers to display pro-Saddam artwork. I'm sure the admin doesn't want to be running a school labeled pro-terrorist by rabid talking heads. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

04-02-2003, 10:41 AM	#8
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Clint, We have a (well defended) segment of the population that demands the schools be kept free of religion in all shapes and forms. Why not something like this as well? __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster Last edited by Fritz : 04-02-2003 at 10:46 AM.

04-02-2003, 10:44 AM	#9
GoldenEagle Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Little Rock, AR	I think this is absurd and a knock on both teachers and students. People are allowed to express their opinion. But then again, I think religion should be allowed in school too. __________________ Xbox 360 Gamer Tag: GoldenEagle014

04-02-2003, 10:46 AM	#10
CamEdwards Stadium Announcer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burke, VA	Easy, Quit trying to trample my freedom of speech. That's completely un-American and hawkish of you. __________________ I don't want the world. I just want your half.

04-02-2003, 10:30 AM	#5
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	As have FoxNews's anchors and talk shows. Damn man, quit spitting out your partisan bullshit when it doesn't even belong in whats being talked about.

04-02-2003, 10:34 AM	#6
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	If you will note, one of the teachers specifically said that the posted artwork contained both pro-war and anti-war messages. So I don't see where the Fox News anchors would have much of a case.

04-02-2003, 10:35 AM	#7
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	sorry, meant that for Cam and not Jphill, I dont post fast enough

04-02-2003, 10:48 AM	#11
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	This is not religion, therefore there is no 1st Amendment Establishment Clause issue involved. It is a political debate.

04-02-2003, 11:02 AM	#13
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	Actually I don't think that schools need to be completely free of religion. I just think that schools need to be completely free of endorsing any particular religion. Voluntary student expressions (like extracurricular clubs, valedictorian speeches, etc) are OK with me. Classroom prayer, invocations, benedictions, proselytizing teachers and administrators, etc., are not. In addition, I think students are ill-served if religion and its impacts (good and bad) on society are ignored in history and social science courses. And I think it would be very helpful to us all if the education system covered the beliefs and differences between the major religions. Maybe then, we would have a little less religious bigotry (although the right wingers that want our school system to be extensions of evangelical Christian churches would not be happy at all with that). Is that better, Fritz?

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