Poll in France...

Bee · 04-02-2003, 07:56 AM

shows that 1/3rd of french wants the US to lose to Iraq.
.
.
.
.

I wonder how many Americans will be in favor of helping the next time the French are invaded...

Fritz · 04-02-2003, 08:00 AM

misery loves company

04-02-2003, 08:02 AM

I have held off just about as long as I possible could from bashing France but this was the final straw.

FRANCE SUCKS.

Bonegavel · 04-02-2003, 08:14 AM

Thank God for the French people that Chirac wasn't president during WWII. Why did we enter the war against Germany? They never attacked us. Japan did, but not Germany. We should have held off and sent inspectors into France to be led around by Nazis. Damn they have short memories.

Fritz · 04-02-2003, 08:18 AM

Germany declared war on us. Dec 10th or 11th I think. They then attacked anything on the seas.

Bonegavel · 04-02-2003, 08:29 AM

Sadaam declared war on us too, IIRC.

Hey, the Germans meant well. They attacked our merchant fleets with the best of intentions. Don't be too harsh Fritz.

BreizhManu · 04-02-2003, 08:33 AM

link ? cause I didn't heard of it

Fritz · 04-02-2003, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BoneGavel
Sadaam declared war on us too, IIRC.

Hey, the Germans meant well. They attacked our merchant fleets with the best of intentions. Don't be too harsh Fritz.

No harshness from this quarter, just a factual correction. I share your sentiments Chirac. Of course, if Chirac were in charge then he would not have lived up to his guarantee to Poland.

Hammer755 · 04-02-2003, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BreizhManu
link ? cause I didn't heard of it

I'm working on finding a link as well. I read that it came from a recent Le Monde poll.

Bee · 04-02-2003, 08:48 AM

I heard it on CBS Radio. You might find a link on the CBS news website.

BreizhManu · 04-02-2003, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hammer755
I'm working on finding a link as well. I read that it came from a recent Le Monde poll.

nope not Le monde, their last 4 polls are :

will the war have economical consecuencies for France ?

what do you think of the lack of anti war movements in France ?

About war, which of the 2 countries best uses the media ?

What do you think of how the ONU is handling the iraki crisis ?

http://www.lemonde.fr/sondage/0,5987,587,00.html

ColtCrazy · 04-02-2003, 08:51 AM

Isn't about 1/3 of this country against the war?

I just came back from France, where I was not harassed, questioned, or assaulted in any way for being an American. (and with my midwest accent, it's not like I could hide the fact.)

Media, on the other hand, is raking Rumsfeld over the coals.

I think it's sad 1/3 of the country wants us to lose, but what about the majority? What's their opinion.

I'm not trying to back the French, Lord knows there views baffle and infuriate me, but let's not bash a whole country because of 1/3. From my visits, France is 2 different worlds. One is Paris, people are rude, anti-Americanism thrives, and I bet most of your 1/3 are from there. The countryside, on the other hand, seems to be pleasant, helpful, and I've had nothing but good experiences there.

Ben E Lou · 04-02-2003, 08:52 AM

GrantDawg · 04-02-2003, 08:55 AM

Here is a link to the Times that credits the poll to Le Monde.

Linky

Hammer755 · 04-02-2003, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hammer755
I'm working on finding a link as well. I read that it came from a recent Le Monde poll.

Here's a link to a reference of the poll, but not the actual poll itself.

One in Three French backs Saddam

Quote:

Relations will be further rent by a second poll, in Le Monde, showing that only a third of the French felt that they were on the same side as the Americans and British, and that another third desired outright Iraqi victory over “les anglo-saxons”.

Also discussed in the article is the desecration of a British war monument in northern France.

Translation of the graffiti, as found on a BBC page.

The words "Rosbifs [British] go home! Saddam Hussein will win and spill your blood" were painted in French over the base of the cemetery's main monument - an obelisk topped by a cross.

On one side was a swastika and the words "death to the Yankees".

Also daubed were the words "dig up your garbage, it is fouling our soil," and "Bush, Blair to the TPI (International Court of Justice)".

ColtCrazy · 04-02-2003, 09:02 AM

okay, now that above picture ticks me off. Having visited a British war cemetary while I was there, that ticks me off that anyone would desecrate a monument to people who helped save your country.

Maybe I got lucky and only saw the 1/3 on our side. How does the middle 1/3 think?

Funny, French didn't seem to mind eating at McDonalds or wearing American clothes while I was there.

04-02-2003, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ColtCrazy
okay, now that above picture ticks me off. Having visited a British war cemetary while I was there, that ticks me off that anyone would desecrate a monument to people who helped save your country.

Maybe I got lucky and only saw the 1/3 on our side. How does the middle 1/3 think?

Funny, French didn't seem to mind eating at McDonalds or wearing American clothes while I was there.

What does it matter on how the other 1/3 thinks at this point. The facts are that 1/3 of the French population want us to lose this war and want Saddam to remain in power. On top of that the gravesite activity is enough for me to say, "Fuck France" and if the 1/3 that supports us don't like tha statement then they can move here instead.

CamEdwards · 04-02-2003, 09:06 AM

Actually public support of the war here in America is somewhere between 70 and 80 percent. And I think if you asked the question "Who do you want to win the war?" you'd find about 3 percent or less answering with "Iraq".

Hammer755 · 04-02-2003, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ColtCrazy
okay, now that above picture ticks me off. Having visited a British war cemetary while I was there, that ticks me off that anyone would desecrate a monument to people who helped save your country.

Maybe I got lucky and only saw the 1/3 on our side. How does the middle 1/3 think?

Funny, French didn't seem to mind eating at McDonalds or wearing American clothes while I was there.

To me, the results of the poll (if accurate, I still haven't seen indisputable confirmation) are far more bothersome than the vandalism episode. Yes, it is an obsenely disgusting trangression, but the descration of the war monument was a single incident perpetrated by a handful of people, and every country has its minority of violent extremists.

However, to see that a full third of the country would rather see Saddam Hussein victorious than the US is much more troublesome, again assuming the poll is accurate.

Bee · 04-02-2003, 09:07 AM

Just to clarify. 1/3rd of the French may think they are on "our" side, but they don't necessarily support the war. Other polls I've seen indicate there is considerably less support than that for the war.

Ben E Lou · 04-02-2003, 09:35 AM

To clarify my post. Written on the side of the tank is:

TODAY: Baghdad
TOMORROW: Paris

fantastic flying froggies · 04-02-2003, 09:35 AM

And please do also remember that a poll is just a poll is just a poll. A sample size of roughly 1000 people has never been in my mind a representative sample.
French pollsters are also traditionnaly very wrong, they got the results of last year's presidential election completely wrong !

Finally, I, like Manu, have also not heard of this poll.

Anrhydeddu · 04-02-2003, 09:36 AM

I had thought it was about protecting their precious Iraqi oil for their scooters but I am believing it is a bigger issue. It is about the French ego. They really feel that they should be the world's superpower but when they see the Anglo countries of US and Britain being dominate, economically and militarily, while France is mired in internal strife, they have to tear down those that are standing in their way.

Ben E Lou · 04-02-2003, 09:44 AM

This poll makes it obvious to me that approximately one out of three frenchmen need to be pimp-slapped.

Bee · 04-02-2003, 09:59 AM

I have read a couple articles that seem to indicate a snowballing effect in France. Basically, the politicians have been pushing the anti-war (bordering on anti-American) stance for so long the people are starting to take that stance and moving even further with it, well into the anti-American/anti-British realm. I've now read several articles where French politicians are being critical of the French populous for being too anti-American. The articles seem to indicate the reason being concern that French companies will be excluded from American/British contracts in the future which could be a serious economic problem in France. I wish I could find a link to a couple of the articles, but I hate trying to find stuff

. It will be interesting to see what happens to the French economy after the war is over. If I were a betting man, I'd say they're going to be in trouble.

fantastic flying froggies · 04-02-2003, 10:00 AM

OK found the link , it was indeed in Le Monde on monday.

Sorry it's in french.

What it basically says :

78 % disaproove military action in Iraq vs 17% approving

65 % think the US are responsible for starting the conflict.

34% feel they are on the side of the US vs 25% on the side of Iraq with 31% sitting on the fence.

I must confess that, as a Frenchman, I am not proud of these results...

Hammer755 · 04-02-2003, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fantastic flying froggies
OK found the link , it was indeed in Le Monde on monday.

Thanks for the link, fff. Disturbing to say the least.

Tarkus · 04-02-2003, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fantastic flying froggies
I must confess that, as a Frenchman, I am not proud of these results...

Thanks for being supportive. It really does blow one away to think that a significant part of a country would wish for the defeat of an ally against a regime like that of Saddam's. Regardless of whether they agree with how they are attacking that regime.

Tarkus

Hammer755 · 04-02-2003, 10:22 AM

What gets me is not only the 25% opposition, but the 31% undecided. If the war appears to go badly for the US (drawn out conflict, more civilian casualties), it could sway opinion to the point that more than half of the French population could be supporting Saddam Hussein.

Bee · 04-02-2003, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hammer755
What gets me is not only the 25% opposition, but the 31% undecided. If the war appears to go badly for the US (drawn out conflict, more civilian casualties), it could sway opinion to the point that more than half of the French population could be supporting Saddam Hussein.

That's scary. It's one thing to be against the war, but it's hard for me to believe so many of the French would even consider supporting Iraq over us.

Anrhydeddu · 04-02-2003, 10:45 AM

Why is it hard to believe? Even if you don't buy France's ego and anti-Anglo beliefs, it has been reported that they get 48% of their oil from Iraq. For them, it is partly about oil and partly about tearing down the Anglo alliance.

Bee · 04-02-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
Why is it hard to believe? Even if you don't buy France's ego and anti-Anglo beliefs, it has been reported that they get 48% of their oil from Iraq. For them, it is partly about oil and partly about tearing down the Anglo alliance.

For me it's hard to believe because they have been our allies for so long and Iraq has such a "bad" regime. The numbers against the war doesn't surprise me, but the numbers in favor of Iraq over the US and the numbers "undecided" do. While the oil issue makes sense to me for the french being "against the war", I don't know if it really is much of a factor for being "for Saddam". Basically, this survey shows that the majority of the french are not sure they'd prefer the US over Iraq...despite all the BS that goes back and forth between the US and France this is somewhat shocking to me.

Bonegavel · 04-02-2003, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
No harshness from this quarter, just a factual correction. I share your sentiments Chirac. Of course, if Chirac were in charge then he would not have lived up to his guarantee to Poland.

Sorry, should have put a smiley after that. I totally agree with you. I thought the tone of the reply would be enough. My bad.

ColtCrazy · 04-02-2003, 03:58 PM

But who doesn't doubt that when the US inevitably wins the war, suddenly France is backing us, if only to get their greedy hands on whatever pie they think they can take. I appreciate fff's backing, which is why all of France just shouldn't be thrown to the wayside. but from what Bee said, sounds like the French government can blame no one but themselves for the mess they are getting into. The ramifications of their stance will linger long after Saddam's corpse has rotted away.

Brillig · 04-02-2003, 04:01 PM

interesting....

looking at the image from Le Monde, the poll question was

Le positionnement des Franais (sic!) a l'egard des belligerants.

(The position of the French with regard to the belligerants.)

Vous sentez-vous plutot du cote des Etats-Unis et des Anglais.

(You feel more on the side of the US and British)

34%

Plutot du cote de l'Irak

(More on the side of Iraq)

25%

Aucun des deux

(Neither of the two)

31%

Aside from the humor in the fact that they apparently mispelled Francais (French) - I'd like to point out that the 31% aren't "undecided". They're supporting neither side, quite possibly something along the lines of "a plague on both their houses".

Oh, and any politician winning by a 7:5 margin would be declaring a landslide...

Also intresting from the poll - 66% of the polled believed that France should contribute to the reconstruction of Iraq, 61% of the polled believed that France should help in post-war peace-keeping.

In rating the concerns the polled had about the conflict,

44% were concerned with the impact on world peace.
31% were concerned with humanitarian issues.
21% were concerned with the impact on terrorism.
18% were concerned with the economic impact.
9% were concerned with the impact on domestic relations.
7% were concerned with the impact on relations between France and the U.S.

So be happy - apparently the U.S. is irrelevant to France, too!

tucker342 · 04-02-2003, 05:03 PM

I wonder what that would be here in the states?

mckerney · 04-02-2003, 05:05 PM

04-15-2003, 06:46 AM

Are the french changing their minds?

The French press is rethinking its anti-coalition attitudes

04-02-2003, 08:00 AM	#2
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	misery loves company __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

04-02-2003, 08:14 AM	#4
Bonegavel Awaiting Further Instructions... Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Macungie, PA	Thank God for the French people that Chirac wasn't president during WWII. Why did we enter the war against Germany? They never attacked us. Japan did, but not Germany. We should have held off and sent inspectors into France to be led around by Nazis. Damn they have short memories. __________________

04-02-2003, 08:18 AM	#5
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Germany declared war on us. Dec 10th or 11th I think. They then attacked anything on the seas. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster Last edited by Fritz : 04-02-2003 at 08:19 AM.

04-02-2003, 08:29 AM	#6
Bonegavel Awaiting Further Instructions... Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Macungie, PA	Sadaam declared war on us too, IIRC. Hey, the Germans meant well. They attacked our merchant fleets with the best of intentions. Don't be too harsh Fritz. __________________

04-02-2003, 08:51 AM	#12
ColtCrazy College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Midwest	Isn't about 1/3 of this country against the war? I just came back from France, where I was not harassed, questioned, or assaulted in any way for being an American. (and with my midwest accent, it's not like I could hide the fact.) Media, on the other hand, is raking Rumsfeld over the coals. I think it's sad 1/3 of the country wants us to lose, but what about the majority? What's their opinion. I'm not trying to back the French, Lord knows there views baffle and infuriate me, but let's not bash a whole country because of 1/3. From my visits, France is 2 different worlds. One is Paris, people are rude, anti-Americanism thrives, and I bet most of your 1/3 are from there. The countryside, on the other hand, seems to be pleasant, helpful, and I've had nothing but good experiences there. __________________ The Field Generals and Statis Pro Basketball Super League

04-02-2003, 08:02 AM	#3
couriers	I have held off just about as long as I possible could from bashing France but this was the final straw. FRANCE SUCKS.

04-02-2003, 08:33 AM	#7
BreizhManu College Benchwarmer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Paris, France	link ? cause I didn't heard of it

04-02-2003, 08:48 AM	#10
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I heard it on CBS Radio. You might find a link on the CBS news website.

04-02-2003, 08:52 AM	#13
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	__________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

04-02-2003, 08:55 AM	#14
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	Here is a link to the Times that credits the poll to Le Monde. Linky

04-02-2003, 09:02 AM	#16
ColtCrazy College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Midwest	okay, now that above picture ticks me off. Having visited a British war cemetary while I was there, that ticks me off that anyone would desecrate a monument to people who helped save your country. Maybe I got lucky and only saw the 1/3 on our side. How does the middle 1/3 think? Funny, French didn't seem to mind eating at McDonalds or wearing American clothes while I was there. __________________ The Field Generals and Statis Pro Basketball Super League

04-02-2003, 09:06 AM	#18
CamEdwards Stadium Announcer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burke, VA	Actually public support of the war here in America is somewhere between 70 and 80 percent. And I think if you asked the question "Who do you want to win the war?" you'd find about 3 percent or less answering with "Iraq". __________________ I don't want the world. I just want your half.

04-02-2003, 09:07 AM	#20
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	Just to clarify. 1/3rd of the French may think they are on "our" side, but they don't necessarily support the war. Other polls I've seen indicate there is considerably less support than that for the war.

04-02-2003, 09:35 AM	#21
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	To clarify my post. Written on the side of the tank is: TODAY: Baghdad TOMORROW: Paris __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

04-02-2003, 09:35 AM	#22
fantastic flying froggies Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunny South of France	And please do also remember that a poll is just a poll is just a poll. A sample size of roughly 1000 people has never been in my mind a representative sample. French pollsters are also traditionnaly very wrong, they got the results of last year's presidential election completely wrong ! Finally, I, like Manu, have also not heard of this poll. __________________ Detroit Vampires (CFL) : Ve 're coming for your blood! Camargue Flamingos (WOOF): pretty in Pink

04-02-2003, 09:36 AM	#23
Anrhydeddu Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Oct 2002	I had thought it was about protecting their precious Iraqi oil for their scooters but I am believing it is a bigger issue. It is about the French ego. They really feel that they should be the world's superpower but when they see the Anglo countries of US and Britain being dominate, economically and militarily, while France is mired in internal strife, they have to tear down those that are standing in their way.

04-02-2003, 09:44 AM	#24
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	This poll makes it obvious to me that approximately one out of three frenchmen need to be pimp-slapped. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

04-02-2003, 09:59 AM	#25
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I have read a couple articles that seem to indicate a snowballing effect in France. Basically, the politicians have been pushing the anti-war (bordering on anti-American) stance for so long the people are starting to take that stance and moving even further with it, well into the anti-American/anti-British realm. I've now read several articles where French politicians are being critical of the French populous for being too anti-American. The articles seem to indicate the reason being concern that French companies will be excluded from American/British contracts in the future which could be a serious economic problem in France. I wish I could find a link to a couple of the articles, but I hate trying to find stuff . It will be interesting to see what happens to the French economy after the war is over. If I were a betting man, I'd say they're going to be in trouble.

04-02-2003, 10:00 AM	#26
fantastic flying froggies Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunny South of France	OK found the link , it was indeed in Le Monde on monday. Sorry it's in french. What it basically says : 78 % disaproove military action in Iraq vs 17% approving 65 % think the US are responsible for starting the conflict. 34% feel they are on the side of the US vs 25% on the side of Iraq with 31% sitting on the fence. I must confess that, as a Frenchman, I am not proud of these results...

04-02-2003, 10:22 AM	#29
Hammer755 High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Houston, TX	What gets me is not only the 25% opposition, but the 31% undecided. If the war appears to go badly for the US (drawn out conflict, more civilian casualties), it could sway opinion to the point that more than half of the French population could be supporting Saddam Hussein. __________________ I failed Signature 101 class. Last edited by Hammer755 : 04-02-2003 at 10:23 AM.

04-02-2003, 10:45 AM	#31
Anrhydeddu Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Oct 2002	Why is it hard to believe? Even if you don't buy France's ego and anti-Anglo beliefs, it has been reported that they get 48% of their oil from Iraq. For them, it is partly about oil and partly about tearing down the Anglo alliance.

04-02-2003, 03:58 PM	#34
ColtCrazy College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Midwest	But who doesn't doubt that when the US inevitably wins the war, suddenly France is backing us, if only to get their greedy hands on whatever pie they think they can take. I appreciate fff's backing, which is why all of France just shouldn't be thrown to the wayside. but from what Bee said, sounds like the French government can blame no one but themselves for the mess they are getting into. The ramifications of their stance will linger long after Saddam's corpse has rotted away. __________________ The Field Generals and Statis Pro Basketball Super League

04-02-2003, 04:01 PM	#35
Brillig College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Mountain View, California	interesting.... looking at the image from Le Monde, the poll question was Le positionnement des Franais (sic!) a l'egard des belligerants. (The position of the French with regard to the belligerants.) Vous sentez-vous plutot du cote des Etats-Unis et des Anglais. (You feel more on the side of the US and British) 34% Plutot du cote de l'Irak (More on the side of Iraq) 25% Aucun des deux (Neither of the two) 31% Aside from the humor in the fact that they apparently mispelled Francais (French) - I'd like to point out that the 31% aren't "undecided". They're supporting neither side, quite possibly something along the lines of "a plague on both their houses". Oh, and any politician winning by a 7:5 margin would be declaring a landslide... Also intresting from the poll - 66% of the polled believed that France should contribute to the reconstruction of Iraq, 61% of the polled believed that France should help in post-war peace-keeping. In rating the concerns the polled had about the conflict, 44% were concerned with the impact on world peace. 31% were concerned with humanitarian issues. 21% were concerned with the impact on terrorism. 18% were concerned with the economic impact. 9% were concerned with the impact on domestic relations. 7% were concerned with the impact on relations between France and the U.S. So be happy - apparently the U.S. is irrelevant to France, too!

04-02-2003, 05:03 PM	#36
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	I wonder what that would be here in the states?

04-02-2003, 05:05 PM	#37
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Last edited by mckerney : 04-02-2003 at 05:12 PM.

04-15-2003, 06:46 AM	#38
couriers	Are the french changing their minds? The French press is rethinking its anti-coalition attitudes

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